BattleCorp wrote: »

That wording might be slighty confusing there Cass.

I would have worded it like " There is one another option open to you. A limited certificate".

Meant to say one other option. Thinking faster than i'm typing.

That said, if you were able to get permissions from two farmers, that would obviously give you much more flexibility.

Absolutely, but with his own land being a factor the limitedcertificate may be an option, other option.

Big Bangstick wrote: »

The old limited cert didn't cover you to shoot game either. Not sure that's been changed? Maybe something to consider?

Nope, still the same. Hence the limited aspect, and by feck how much more limited can you get. Shotgun only, no game, your own land/land you're nominated on, etc. Really still aimed at farmers.

As Battlecorp said get permissions from others and open up your options.

It's still an option on the FCA1. How many use it though is another question. Plus as it's not £6 anymore (iirc it's €40) many might just go for the full monty.

Welcome to the forum Gravelly. Hopefully i can answer all your questions. This will be long so bear with me.

Gravelly wrote: »

I want to do the following:

• Some game shooting
• Some clay shooting
• Some vermin control on my own >1 acre property
• Some vermin control for a neighbouring farmer
• Some pigeon shooting

To do all the above you will need a full firearms license. A limited certificate is for a shotgun and to be used ONLY on your own land. As you intend to shoot outside your land you need a full license. A training certificate would be a little useless to you unless you had someone to accompany you, like a learner driver in a car with a fully licensed driver.

My question is, do farmer permissions allow me to do all the above, or do I have to join a club too?

Farmer permissions are fine. Make sure the permissions are in writing and for the land you intend to shoot. Don't go onto land you don't have permission for. Written permission is important so you have proof, so make sure to get it over a verbal agreement.

I find the licence form a little confusing. If I am granted a licence based on farmer permissions can I shoot outside of those permissions (legally obviously) such as at a pheasant shoot, clay range etc?

Yes.

The permission are only to get the firearm license and only apply to the land you had at the time of applying. If you get more permissions, are invited for a day on other land or want to attend a clay shoot you are free do so.

ezra_ wrote: »

When applying, I was advised by the local guard to tick both hunting and target shooting (as I would be using the gun in both the range and in the field).

Unnecessary.

Clay pigeon shooting is not target shooting under the law. It's why clay ranges don't have range authorisation or pay range fees to the DoJ. Nothing wrong with ticking both boxes, but it's not necessary, legally.

Gravelly wrote: »

Thanks for that - I was wondering if I was the only one who was puzzled by this! So tick both and supply permissions. What worried me was the line:

(Complete this section if a Limited Certificate is applied for)

That's after permissions on the form because it seems to imply that permissions only allows you to shoot on that land.

You are correct.

DO NOT fil in this part of the form.

I presume i don't need to be a member of a club to shoot clays - I understand my local club allows you to shoot clays for a small fee if you are not a member.

Most clay ranges are open to the public so no, you don't need to be a member.

The only other thing I was wondering about is the bit about "proof of competence" - reading other threads on here there seems to be no agreement as to what this consists of. I grew up on a farm and used my fathers shotgun in my teens, but I'm guessing that won't count! Does doing a couple of hours clay shooting at the local range count I wonder?

There are four recognised methods of showing competence:

• Competency cert
• Previous history with a firearm (DF, etc)
• Training license
• Letters of support from licensed people

You could use any one of the above, but unfortunately more and more Superintendents are seeking a competence certificate. They are not expensive, and most ranges do a course for around €35 or €70 or so to include a years insurance.

Gravelly wrote: »

I wanted a full one - I presume a limited one won't allow me to hunt outside my permissions, or clay shoot will it?

No.

As said above a limited cert is only for one shotgun, on your own land. It used to be called the farmer's license.

I rang my local station to ask to speak to the firearms officer (they seemed to be very confused when I used that term,

Technically speaking there is no position within An Gardaí of Firearms officer. It is a term we use. However most Gardaí know what it means. Most Gardaí, there is no accounting for some.

Gravelly wrote:

My friend who hunts has had a licence for years and knows very little about the process of applying for a new one.

Here is what you need to do.

You want to be as detailed as possible, but without writing a novel.

Fill in sections:

For the following sections, just fill them in, but for the most part extra information is not necessary:

• Section 1 - Tick Firearm Certificate and in the box below tick "I have not held a certificate for this firearm in the previous three years".
• Section 2.1 - Fill in all the personal information stuff. Everything.
• Section 2.2 - Give name, address and phone number for your GP, and any other doctor you might be visiting.
• Section 2.3 - You need two people to vouch for you. Supply their name, address and details in this section.
• Section 2.4 - Tick the boxes as appropriate.
• Section 2.5 - Supply details of your competence, or if you've done the course just write "Copy of cert attached". Then attach a copy.
• Section 3.1 - Fill in the details of the gun you've bought here. All the info will be on the docket the dealer gives you.
• Section 3.3 - Write in the dealer PULSE ID. It'll be a 4 digit number that the dealer uses. Then his name.
• Section 3.5 - Tick "YES", and then "NO". Make sure you have at least a trigger lock bought for the gun. This is the minimu security needed.
• Section 4.1 - Tick English, and below that write in the amount of rounds you want. I'd apply for betwee 250 - 500 rounds.
• Section 4.2 - Tick Hunting. No need for target shooting and you might be required to show membership if you do. You can tick it if you want, it's your chice.
• Section
• Section 5.1 - Tick yes (no need for licenses as your firearms license covers you and you're not shooting deer, only pheasant)
• Sign it, and date it.

Ignore sections:

• 3.4
• 4.3
• 4.4
• 5.2

You need to provide more information for some sections on a separate piece of paper, labelled "Additional Information". See which sections apply to you, and fill in the following for those sections:

1. Section 2.1 - Previous Address: If you have lived elsewhere provide thos addresses.
2. Section 2.5 - Proof of Competence: Supply copy of your competence certificate.
3. Section 3.5 - Secure Storage: List your security measures as you have done. For a shotgun its a trigger lock and stored in three pieces around the house. You may be asked for a safe, but the Super will let you know.
4. Section 4.1 - Amount of Ammo: I am requesting 250-500 (example) rounds of ammunition for the following reasons:
   • Empty (fired) casings are treated the same as live rounds as per the Firearms Act, 1925 where it states that "ammunition for a firearm is any ingredient or component part of any such ammunition", with component part being the bullet, the casing, the propellant or the primer. So my license must allow me to have a high enough limit to have both live and fired rounds in my possession.
   • I regularly take part in clay shoots and actively attend clay ranges for practice. As a result of this I can go through a large quantity of rounds in a short period of time.
   • Buying bulk rounds of ammunition to reduce trips to dealer and for cost implications.
   • Distance to dealer being excessive & inconvenient.
5. Section 4.2 - Reason for Gun:
   • Control of vermin on my lands
   • Control of vermin on lands nominated in my permissions
   • Clay pigeon shooting
   • Hunting of game during the open seasons.

For your first licenses you need to be as complete as possible, but for any additional licenses over the years you'll find some of the above does not need to be filled in.

Gravelly wrote: »

I suppose it's only when you do a bit of shooting you'll get a feel for it.

This.

Don't buy anything yet. Go to the clay range and try a few, and get a feel for a few. Gun fit is more than if you can hold it. It's about how the gun shoulders, consistently, are you down along the rib or out to the side. Can you hit with it, or is it a paper weight.

The only way to know this, if you've no real experience, is to visit a range and get help from someone with more experience. We've all had to do it. they will tell you what works for you, and what doesn't.

As for cost. It's always painful to hand out a lump of cash, but don't buy cheap just to get started. The gun may not suit, and may give you bad habits that you have to "unlearn".

Save up for the better type and model. You don't need to spend a fortune, and you can buy brand new O/U shotguns from around €550 up. They wouldn't be classed as the best, but who cares as long as it works.

Look at Baikal, Lanber, Yildiz, etc. As said new prices go from €550. Second hand prices from €375 and up. For semi auto, O/U, etc.

Under all my posts you'll see a link for online dealers. Click on it and go through the dealers. Find one close to you, and start looking at guns. Move out and check a few places that are not so close to you. Then if you find something go to the dealer, with someone else you know, and see not only that gun but what else is in stock.

Irish online sites are not great. They don't list everything and it's still a case of having to visit the shop. The reason for bringing someone with you is more experience, and they will see any fault with a gun that you may not because of Rose tinted glasses. Again, we've all been there.

That is a complicated question but i'll try to keep it to salient points.

An authorised range is a rifle or pistol (or both) range that pays it's yearly fee to the Department of Justice (DoJ) and receives a PULSE ID. They have members, rules, but more importantly they must abide by the laws set out for running a range.

Clay pigeon shooting is not, under the law, classed as target shooting. As such clay pigeon ranges do not need this authorisation. In essence you could set one up out your back and if consideration was given to planning permission, noise, etc. that is all you'd need.

A clay range is easier that way, but also has drawbacks. An authorised range can allow new people to the sport to come onto the range, and under supervision, shoot unrestricted guns. A clay cannot as they don't have the same classification as an authorised range and so don't have the same laws to abide by or protect them.

Some clay ranges may pay and get the authorisation in which case you're fine. Also some authorised ranges have clay ranges on them and so you're covered by these same laws.

Again under my posts are links to ranges, clay ranges, pistol ranges and rifle ranges. Check them out and see which suits for a visit.