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Price range / rates
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20-04-2013 7:22pm#1
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lemon_remon wrote: »That's not something to be proud of.
Well I don't built website with open source CMSs and then charge for setting up a system in a few hours.
I build the sites, why not be proud of that?
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Because the customer will end up with a better site by using open source CMSs. Based on the front-end, the karate club site could have been done quicker, easier and better in, say, Wordpress than doing it from scratchWell I don't built website with open source CMSs and then charge for setting up a system in a few hours.
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DonkeyStyle \o/ wrote: »There isn't one.
What ever your rate is, there are always going to be people who want something for nothing. People who probably don't even know why they want a website, but who've spotted what they believe is an opportunity (by "knowing someone") to attain something for nothing... what ever it happens to be.
IMO, they're "cute hoors" who want to take and give nothing back, let them eat shit.
Lol I like that
I had one girl wanted me to put her shop online with all products for 350 euro because I guy said that is what she should pay.
She will make money selling online form the site and only wanted to pay 350 euro :eek:
How much will it cost her to have a shop in her local town? I was giving her a means to sell all over the world.0 -
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OS CMS is good but why are people given prices of 350 euro for an online shop where the customer will use the site to sell online. Are the people working in the industry mad?
If they are in school they are bringing down the value of an industry they will need when they are finished. Again I say, "are they mad?"
With meeting the customer and going trough the design, then setup of hosting, OS CMS, email, search engine submitting and so on. It would not pay anyone to do a site for 350 euro. Even if you are doing a site (full site and all the other which goes along with a website ) in one 8 hour day, you can only do 5 a week. Every week. Hmmmmm, I don't think so.
I worked in an industry which killed its self because the value was pushed so low that no one could live on what they were making. Don't forget 40 hours a week work should give you a life.
That's just my opinion, and I hope this industry stays a strong employer in Ireland.0 -
OS is good but why are people given prices of 350 euro for an online shop where the customer will use the site to sell online. Are the people working in the industry mad?
If they are in school they are bringing down the value of an industry they will need when they are finished. Again I say, "are they mad?"
With meeting the customer and going trough the design, then setup of hosting, OS CMS, email, search engine submitting and so on. It would not pay anyone to do a site for 350 euro. Even if you are doing a site (full site and all the other which goes along with a website ) in one 8 hour day, you can only do 5 a week. Every week. Hmmmmm, I don't think so.
I worked in an industry which killed its self because the value was pushed so low that no one could live on what they were making. Don't forget 40 hours a week work should give you a life.
That's just my opinion, and I hope this industry stays a strong employer in Ireland.
There's nothing wrong with using Open Source to save you time. People do it in professional software development all the time. Honestly, your site doesn't look great. You could build something with Bootstrap in a few hours that looks better and nobody would notice the difference, in fact they would most likely pay more for the site built with Bootstrap. The reason people aren't paying a lot to do simple brochure websites is because it's trivial. There's no skill involved, don't kid yourself.0 -
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returnNull wrote: »you might want to sort the lorum ipsom on that websites FAQ
I have asked them for the content a few times, I forgot about the Loren ipsom on that page.
I'll remove it, thanks
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lemon_remon wrote: »You're really over selling yourself here. Even your site does have its own custom "CMS" it really isn't all that impressive as there are about 5 pages on your site each with only one content section. There isn't even a side bar.
- Selling yourself is the way to get work.
- Pages. If the customer only has a small amount of info for the pages, well that is not my problem.
- Sections. There will be more sections when they come up with the content.
- Side bar. There is no need for a sidebar on the site. I could have a sidebar if it is needed
I already told you, I don't work on front ends. I'm interested more interested in algorithms and coding practice but even I can tell that your site doesn't look professional.
Maybe! But I can fix that.
I understand that you like open source code (which I like myself, why reinvent the wheel?) but that's not the issue.
It's the people calling themselves designers and developers who use open source CMSs like Wordpress which they setup for the customer and then tell the customer they built them a website.
I had a guy get me to do work for him because when he asked his website creator to do a custom banner/header on his site, the creator could not do it. He built the website with magenta and uploaded a skin, that's all, he charged 350 euro.
That is what gets under my skin.
So my OP was; what is the going rate because I think this industry is going down the toilet because of this.0 -
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Kidchameleon wrote: »OP maybe your "too good" for simple site development. Perhaps you would find more low level work more stimulating and profitable
While I prefer to develop from the ground up myself, there's no point reinventing the wheel either.
Lol.... You're a ground up developer!
If someone said you wanted to charge them 2.5k for a website, I'd say if he can build a CMS, Database and website for the ground up then go for it.
I respect people like you.0 -
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PeakOutput wrote: »Can you give one advantage to hand coding the cms from scratch and can you give one (different) disadvantage of using an os cms for a relatively simple brochure, ecommerce or blog site?
You are only building it once, then you copy. You can then sell as a custom CMS for a greater value. If you are capable of building the database, CMS and front end then you can also do the custom work if needed. So the benefit is more value at point of sale.
I will give you the OP CMS is great for the ecommers and blogs. Due to the time saved, But the value to you as web builder/creator/design business is very low because of OP CMS.
I had an customer tell me they could get there (brochure) site done for 150 euro.
I done that site for just under 1k. They gave me the job because the guy could not do the custom work they wanted.
My OP was based on what the value is to get a website done. It looks like OS CMS have taken the value out of your work, I dont mean to upset anyone so please don't shoot me
I fixed the karate club site, still a little to do. There is a browser issue doing my head in. IE vs FireFox.0 -
I've been largely out of the Irish market for a few years, but I've been told that hourly rates have dropped for development; I believe that someone skilled - either an expert in a specific CMS or an actual developer (someone who can code as opposed to hack some code and just use CMS's) can charge up to about €50 p.h., while some of the bottom feeders at the bottom of the food chain will charge a de facto rate as low as €5 - I say de facto because they don't have one; they give fixed prices and underestimate the work involved.I've been working on site design and development for years (my own sites) and have had loads of people ask me to build sites for them but have put most of them off, due to the price they think they should pay and because I just did not want to work for nothing.
How this translates in terms of a site depends on the developer and their process. Some use a CMS and do everything in four hours then charge for two days. Others don't really keep time. Some are faster than others.
A basic brochureware site will realistically cost anything between €200 and about €1,000, from what I've been told. If you're going for the cheap option though, you're playing supplier roulette; you might have a real bargain or a disaster.
Of course, having been out of Ireland for a while, I could be wrong about the above rates.
I know exactly what you mean about building it yourself - I also feel that is something to be proud of.I build the sites, why not be proud of that?
Unfortunately, that's not how the market works and there's little point reinventing the wheel and then charging your client to reinvent the wheel, especially when it prices you out of the market. I do very little brochureware work any more and if I do, I generally steer (using scary quotes) the client against bespoke CMS's. Those days are gone, or more correctly, not commercially viable.
Of your site, outsource your design and information architecture. Like me, you're a coder, not a pixel-pusher and it shows. The market stopped supporting Jacks-of-all-trades a long time ago.
Better still, get out of the brochureware market; there's no money in it. Doing Web applications, mobile work or other IT solutions pay far better.
Then wish her the best of luck and make sure that you let her know, politely, that for that budget she's likely to end up back at square one in a few months when she realizes her bargain site is not the bargain she'd hoped for. Then wave good-bye.I had one girl wanted me to put her shop online with all products for 350 euro because I guy said that is what she should pay.
Clients like that are either acting out of lack of knowledge or because they're horse-traders. If the former, you'll likely hear from her again in six months as she'll remember your polite warning after the bottom feeder she eventually engages leaves her with a pig's ear.
If the latter, hope you never hear from them again. They will squeeze as much value out of you as they can and then almost always fail to pay the final invoice.
Repeat businessPeakOutput wrote: »Can you give one advantage to hand coding the cms from scratch and can you give one (different) disadvantage of using an os cms for a relatively simple brochure, ecommerce or blog site?
Lots of WordPress, Joomla and Drupal experts out there. Only one expert in the CMS you wrote yourself.
Of course, that's one advantage for the developer, not really the client...0 -
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DonkeyStyle \o/ wrote: »Well, one thing I'll say for a custom CMS... if you have a brochure site that's going to be left to rot, it's less maintenance. Get lazy about patching/updating Wordpress and you'll have viagra ads inside about two months of neglect.
I agree with that, and I think there are a couple more advantages to a custom CMS (I particularly The Corinthian's developer lock-in one).
However, to counter this particular point (and it's a good one), one thing I've done in the past is build a brochureware site up in WordPress (insert your favourite CMS) and then index the entire site as a static HTML site, and put the static version online.
That gives you the best of both worlds (security and user friendliness) with the cost of being a bit more hassle to set up.0 -
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