Intruder Alarm Questions and Answers

lastbuilders · 01-05-2009 1:04pm

Can anyone tell me what the average drop in insurance quotes an alarm makes?
Lastbuilders

KoolKid · 01-05-2009 1:22pm

It can be anywhere from 10%-30%

delly · 01-05-2009 1:34pm

Thread moved from DIY

JIMMYBOND007 · 04-05-2009 12:12am

it most likely could mean your insurance would be invalid,not tryin to scare you,i am a qualified alarm installer and would not go in to that business because they regulated to much,you cant earn a living without renewing the psa lience which is ok but the price of the lience all depends on what you eared on the pervious year:mad:complete joke,so went back to collage to do gas and oil boilers and they are bringing out analayser reports that i will have to give to customers for there house insurance in case any dogey lads where messing around with boilers and may cause a fire or explosion

KoolKid · 04-05-2009 12:40am

Not entirly correct. PSA licence costs are based on a scale related to turnover.

04-05-2009 10:12am

went back to collage to do gas and oil boilers

Do you mind me asking what course you did??
I have always wanted to learn more about these. Thanks!

JIMMYBOND007 · 04-05-2009 12:55pm

scale related turn over???this still means the price of the psa lience goes on what you have earned yes or no??so if you earn 1 millon turnover and john down the road earns 500,000 turnover ,who pays the most for there psa lience?its 1 rule for 1 lad and another for the other.wouldnt mind but suppliers of alarms are supose to have a psa lience to eg.argus ,b n q ,homebase ,etc,etc do you think they have a psa lience??the system is a joke all because bounchers where kicking the bol*@x out of lads outside night clubs these rules where brought in.
I done the gas courses :gis,gid,dsc you can register for rgi once you have these. i also done oil course oft 50/101/105e/600a you can register for oftec after these
You have to have a trade to do these courses,any trade will do ,you do not need to be a plumber because its not a plumbers job,but well worth doing if you can afford to do them,the whole lot came to €5820
gas:
gis=€720
gid=€1500
dsc=€1800

oil: 4 in 1 course=€1800

KoolKid · 04-05-2009 1:52pm

JIMMYBOND007 wrote: »

scale related turn over???this still means the price of the psa lience goes on what you have earned yes or no??so if you earn 1 millon turnover and john down the road earns 500,000 turnover ,who pays the most for there psa lience?

Are you in business yourself???
Turnover does not gaurantee profit or earnings.

04-05-2009 4:35pm

Sorry to go off topic, but where are these courses run Jimmy??

Thanks in advance.

JIMMYBOND007 · 05-05-2009 1:04am

fas and metac,do these courses.metac would be the best choice,they have excellent workshop areas,they are in mouthrath in laois,there can be a waiting list for these courses in fas,koolkid not getting into psa with you,just answer something i am trying to find out,2 companys who pays the most for there psa lience small profit company or bigger profit company?

KoolKid · 05-05-2009 7:54am

I wouldnt know as the PSA fee is based on turnover NOT profit. Thats the simple fact of it. Are you denying this or simply trying to use coincidence to back up your incorrect previous statement.
Anyway this has nothing to do with the OPs question....

bromley52 · 05-05-2009 2:05pm

I need help in wiring a "Aritec" shock alarm sonsor for a secure watch HKC alarm system.

The house alarm was going off on opening the front door of the house even though the alarm was not set. Z6 tamper was the event.
It was suggested here that the wiring may be the problem on the front door.
I took off the brown cover of the shock sensor only to find that none of the wires were screwed into the sensor unit. They either came loose over time or were never wired correctly in the first place. So I need help.

What I have is

a] black and red wire joined
b]blue and yellow wire joined
c]green an white wire joined

On the shock sensor cover there is the removable white piece with two screws underneath.(can hear loose bits in this)
On the bit attached to the door there are 4 screws.
Top &bottom ones are labelled "T"
middle two are labelled "spare or reed"

All help is appreciated.

fred funk }{ · 05-05-2009 3:14pm

OK.
First of all go to the keypad and set the alarm then unset it, then open the red and black wires and make sure they're not touching and try part set the alarm, if it wont set and says 'front door' or 'front door shock' you know then what that pair is for. Open the yellow/blue, if the alarm rings and says 'tamper front door' or the like you know then that they are the tampers, wire these into the two terminal that say 'T' it doesn't matter which one goes where. Do the same with the green and white. I would say the red/black is for the shock sensor which is the little square thing that rattles and the green/white is the contact and should be wired into the 'reed/spare' terminal.
Make sure the wiring on the sensor head is horizontal because it wont work otherwise.

shelly270683 · 08-05-2009 6:25pm

ok i live in a rented apartment and we had a 24 hr power cut. The Aritech alarm (not sure of model) had mains failure and shorted out after a prolonged day of no power. Then yesterday the power came back on and the alarm went off inside the home, ive tried all codes ie 1122, 1298 and 1979. The noise of the indoor alarm was annoying so i disconnected it from the main wire to it.

Has anyone any info about this

civildefence · 08-05-2009 6:30pm

shelly270683 wrote: »

ok i live in a rented apartment and we had a 24 hr power cut. The Aritech alarm (not sure of model) had mains failure and shorted out after a prolonged day of no power. Then yesterday the power came back on and the alarm went off inside the home, ive tried all codes ie 1122, 1298 and 1979. The noise of the indoor alarm was annoying so i disconnected it from the main wire to it.

Has anyone any info about this

Firstly if you have disconnected it from the mains, make sure its connected back in safely. Power it back on and when the sirens ring enter the code you were using, if that doesn't work try 01122, if the system unsets enter 01278 which is the default engineer code. If this doesn't work let me know and ill PM details on how to factory reset the panel.

shelly270683 · 08-05-2009 6:36pm

hi thanks for a quick reply, im not sure how to disconnect the main power to the alarm, what i done was disconnect the indoor bell in the hall, from the plastic socket it was connected with. the noise had everyone complaining even with a towel around it

civildefence · 08-05-2009 6:40pm

shelly270683 wrote: »

hi thanks for a quick reply, im not sure how to disconnect the main power to the alarm, what i done was disconnect the indoor bell in the hall, from the plastic socket it was connected with. the noise had everyone complaining even with a towel around it

Well if you haven't touched the mains already, don't worry. Just try your own code but put a zero before it, if that doesn't work try 01122, let me know how it goes and which code worked

KoolKid · 08-05-2009 6:40pm

To disconnect the power see is there a fused spur beside the control panel. If not try the trip switches one by one. Its usually on with a light circut (10amp) or the door bell (6 amp)

Did you have a working code for the alarm prior to the power cut?

To try default the panel
Power down the control panel by disconnecting the mains power & also the back up battery.
Locate the factory link on the main PCB (marked LK1) & remove this.
Power up the system & disarm using the factory code 01122.
If the system disarms you have sucessfully unlocked the panel & can now enter the engineer mode using the code 01278.(Don't forget to replace the factory link at this stage.) All codes & configurations can be set in this mode.

If the above does not work then the system is engineer locked..

civildefence · 08-05-2009 6:43pm

koolkid wrote: »

To disconnect the power see is there a fused spur beside the control panel. If not try the trip switches one by one. Its usually on with a light circut (10amp) or the door bell (6 amp)

Did you have a working code for the alarm prior to the power cut?

To try default the panel
Power down the control panel by disconnecting the mains power & also the back up battery.
Locate the factory link on the main PCB (marked LK1) & remove this.
Power up the system & disarm using the factory code 01122.
If the system disarms you have sucessfully unlocked the panel & can now enter the engineer mode using the code 01278.(Don't forget to replace the factory link at this stage.) All codes & configurations can be set in this mode.

I don't think giving this advice to somebody not in the trade is very wise for safety's sake

shelly270683 · 08-05-2009 6:46pm

Hi none of the code work i took of the cover, it has a sring tamper but nothing happened there, i turned a black obect to reveal a very light code (nd-NO PASSSS)

tried all the fuses the three warning leds were still lit up

KoolKid · 08-05-2009 6:48pm

Is it saying ND No Panel Data?

civildefence · 08-05-2009 6:51pm

shelly270683 wrote: »

Hi none of the code work i took of the cover, it has a sring tamper but nothing happened there, i turned a black obect to reveal a very light code (nd-NO PASSSS)

tried all the fuses the three warning leds were still lit up

Shelly you won't find any codes printed on the equipment, if the default code didn't work, you have the option of following the last poster's instructions which will work but i would not recommend it unless you are confident you know how to do it. Either that or call the alarm company who installed it to send a service man out.

KoolKid · 08-05-2009 6:52pm

If its saying no panel data then I think what you did was cut a cable going to the keypad. Reconnect the cable you said you disconnected for the bell & see what happens.

shelly270683 · 08-05-2009 6:55pm

it could be it has nd- NO PA then srambled words ss$$ on the cover is aritech cd3008

shelly270683 · 08-05-2009 6:57pm

i rang the company but they went bust

KoolKid · 08-05-2009 9:04pm

If your in or around Dublin PM me your details if you want us to take a look at it.

Asok · 09-05-2009 8:41am

Does anyone know of a company or person that can work on an astec alarm today? Ours has had its internal sounder going off since around 6am with no fault or alarm showing on it, I've tried the number on the unit but it just goes to voicemail (Kinda expect this out of hours but will keep trying)

fred funk }{ · 09-05-2009 12:12pm

where are you?

Asok · 09-05-2009 12:13pm

Dub 15, Should have mentioned (Lack of sleep taking its toll) I have managed to get someone to come out, hopefully they will be here soon.

KoolKid · 09-05-2009 2:53pm

Sent you a PM Asok.
Let me know how you got on.

civildefence · 09-05-2009 2:54pm

Get a HKC in, Astec nightmare

KoolKid · 09-05-2009 2:55pm

civildefence wrote: »

Get a HKC in, Astec nightmare

Not if they are installed right.After all they conform to the same standard as HKC etc.

For the benefit of all this is what I recommended to Asok

I would try powering the system down (remove mains & battery) disconnect the internal.
Power back up (leave internal disconnected) & disarm. After it disarms it should show 22 call engineer.
Try reconnect the internal. It should ring for 2-3 seconds & the fault should disapper.

civildefence · 09-05-2009 3:00pm

koolkid wrote: »

Not if they are installed right.After all they conform to the same standard as HKC etc.

For the benefit of all this is what I recommended to Asok

I would try powering the system down (remove mains & battery) disconnect the internal.
Power back up (leave internal disconnected) & disarm. After it disarms it should show 22 call engineer.
Try reconnect the internal. It should ring for 2-3 seconds & the fault should disapper.

Shhh, lookin for a nixer

Asok · 09-05-2009 6:56pm

Want to hear what the cause was! Its my neighbours bloody alarm sounding, these crapshacks have such piss poor insulation for sound and because the units are just seperated by a wall it sounds just like its coming off my unit. The battery in my own was getting low so the call out from direct secure was worth it to get it changed, I can only say good things about them after I had quite a few companies flat out refuse to work on the astec.
So now the only way I can set foot in my house without going crazy is by wearing earplugs in my closed off bedroom.... with white noise from simplynoise.com playing over the pc speakers to try cancel a bit of it out. Its really really tempting to start exploring in the wall with a masonry bit (This will likely mean me hitting power and killing myself but at least there will be silence!)

KoolKid · 09-05-2009 10:17pm

Asok ,if you are in an Apartment then get onto your property managemant to chase up the owners. Any apartments we would do would have a 90 minute cut out on the internal siren,

Asok · 09-05-2009 10:19pm

Sadly its a semi-detached house it doesnt seem to be rented property either so I can't even chase down a landlord

, I think its a night for the ear plugs and white noise.

KoolKid · 09-05-2009 10:29pm

A polite note in the door recommending they get it checked usually does the trick.

altor · 11-05-2009 10:32pm

hi newrsoul, the cs250 can be updated with a flash card to v1.9. this will make it able to give a verified signal to a monitoring station. you need to pirs installed on your system for monitoring. hope this helps. any problems, let me know..

KoolKid · 11-05-2009 10:57pm

Any version of the CS250 can send verified alarm signals there is no need to upgrade.
A PiR is ideal but not essential for a verified signal. Any activation of a second zone will suffice.

altor · 11-05-2009 11:20pm

not all do, monitoring require a internal pir to verifie that someone is in the premises before the guards are called since 2006. most will request you install 2 to cover different areas in the premises..

KoolKid · 12-05-2009 9:09am

altor wrote: »

not all do, monitoring require a internal pir to verifie that someone is in the premises before the guards are called since 2006. most will request you install 2 to cover different areas in the premises..

Altor you seem a little confused with what you are trying to get across here. To clarify....
All CS250s can report verified alarms by using the contact ID Format.
The only requirement for verified alarm by monitoring stations is activation of 2 seperate zones.To be clear this is all that is required for Garda response.While a PiR is ideal it is NOT a requirement by any monitoring station or the Guards. A monitoring station will never get involved in any way with what is required in an installation.
Whoever is giving you this information is misguiding you.
I hope this clarifys things for you.:)

altor · 12-05-2009 4:39pm

hi koolkid, thanks for your responce. yes all cs250 can report verified alarms by using id format but not in fast format, as some monitoring stations use. older panels need to be flashed to upgrade the sofeware on them and take out some of the bugs on the older panels version 1.4 - 1.6 more so.. you are right that it is not a requirement of the guards or some monitoring stations to have pirs installed but monitoring stations that i have worked with do so i dont think my information was misguiding. in my own opinion they should be required as they pick up on intruders inside the premises, giving a verified signal, or a second actavation. if some one breaks in a back door and leaves the same way they woud still only have one activation on the system. anyway thanks for your input koolkid..

Cadzer · 13-05-2009 9:53am

koolkid wrote: »

The only requirement for verified alarm by monitoring stations is activation of 2 seperate zones.To be clear this is all that is required for Garda response.:)

This is not technicaly true. The standards state that a verified alarm is sent to a CS after a second activation type. Therefore if you have a shock sensor and a contact on a zone and the zone see a pulse or gross on a zone that is one activation and then the panel see a alarm ie the contact open it will send a verified alarm to the CS.

KoolKid · 13-05-2009 10:00am

You are correct provoiding the panel can distinguish between the 2 for reporting purposes.

bibibobo · 14-05-2009 12:11am

i bought a hkc 812 panel and all other pieces with the intention of installing my own alarm but just don't have the time to complete the job. Current situation is that all windows and doors are wired with contact and shock sensors. I walk tested this and all is ok. Keypad is installed and panel has its own location. Text card is installed and working fine. What i now need is for someone to quote me to complete the install which consists of putting bell box up on outer wall (wiring is in attic ready to go), testing system for correct to IS/EN standard and certifying system so i can get home insurance discount (installer needs to be psa registered). Also the panel battery needs to be replaced with new as keypad is showing a fault. Importantly i must have the panel engineers code as its my alarm and i like tinkering with diy n stuff. Can anybody recommend am installer that would finalise the install and certify the work? B

KoolKid · 14-05-2009 7:56am

Speaking for myself, I would not be willing to certfiy a job to EN if the user has engineer access. You are risking voiding your insurance here.

14-05-2009 5:24pm

I dont think you will have any problems getting the system certed. Alarm companies are always looking for buisness. If they are not happy with an aspect they will insist on changing it. The issue will be you wanting a cert and the engineer code!! Koolkids remark (below) will be what all good alarm companies will say, and you cant blame them.

Where would it leave an alarm company if your "tinkering" resulted in the alarm not functioning when it should??

Speaking for myself, I would not be willing to certfiy a job to EN if the user has engineer access.

KoolKid · 14-05-2009 5:36pm

2011 wrote: »

Where would it leave an alarm company if your "tinkering" resulted in the alarm not functioning when it should??

It would leave the alarm company in a very difficult situation for a number of reasons.
First off if the installation were to come up for inspection & failed to conform to EN50131 because of changes the customer made.
Secondly the customers insurance would be null & void in the event of a claim if he policy is based on haveing an alarm system to EN50131.
Thirdly no decent professional is going to put their name to something that is going to be tinkered with.
I really dont understand peoples obsession with engineer codes.
Do people like this spend their life looking for engineer codes for every applience in their house or what??

My advice is get the job done professionally & let the system do what its supposed to do, protect your property & your family.
If you want something to play with buy a gadget of some sort.

bibibobo · 14-05-2009 6:27pm

koolkid wrote: »

It would leave the alarm company in a very difficult situation for a number of reasons.
First off if the installation were to come up for inspection & failed to conform to EN50131 because of changes the customer made.
Secondly the customers insurance would be null & void in the event of a claim if he policy is based on haveing an alarm system to EN50131.
Thirdly no decent professional is going to put their name to something that is going to be tinkered with.
I really dont understand peoples obsession with engineer codes.
Do people like this spend their life looking for engineer codes for every applience in their house or what??

My advice is get the job done professionally & let the system do what its supposed to do, protect your property & your family.
If you want something to play with buy a gadget of some sort.

- surely I am entitled to the engineer code as it is my alarm. Also, I do not wish to be locked to one company who may go out of business. Is there a requirement in EN50131 for the engineer code to be locked away from the customer? I may, for example wish to use my engineer code to access the digitext card at a later date to modify some of the text features, SMS centre and mobiles contacted. If the system was locked then I would have to call out the 'engineer' at cost to program these settings which I am perfectly able to do myself.

- Regarding if the alarm 'came up for inspection' I am not sure what exactly is meant by this. I presume you mean someone could call to my door from a body such as NSAI or PSA to inspect the installation to ensure the engineers work is up to scratch. If this was the case then I wouldn't let then in unless it suited me.

KoolKid · 14-05-2009 6:44pm

bibibobo wrote: »

- surely I am entitled to the engineer code as it is my alarm.

No you aren't . That is a myth. Try going to the makers of all the other appliences in your home with the same argument & see what they say to you.Engineer access is restricted to protect programming required for the correct operation of the system.

bibibobo wrote: »

-Also, I do not wish to be locked to one company who may go out of business.

How will you be locked to one company?
Any licenced alarm company can maintain your alarm.

bibibobo wrote: »

- Is there a requirement in EN50131 for the engineer code to be locked away from the customer? I may, for example wish to use my engineer code to access the digitext card at a later date to modify some of the text features, SMS centre and mobiles contacted.

There are a lot of requirements for a system to conform to EN50131.
Many of these requirements could be changed in the engineer menu.
Anything the user would need to change would be available via user or manager menus.

bibibobo wrote: »

If the system was locked then I would have to call out the 'engineer' at cost to program these settings which I am perfectly able to do myself.

But an engineer doing it will not void your insurance.
DIY your alarm by all means. I dont have a problem with that.But if you do don't present a cert to your insurance company.
Asking someone to certify your alarm which you are going to alter is unacceptable in my book.

bibibobo wrote: »

-
- Regarding if the alarm 'came up for inspection' I am not sure what exactly is meant by this. I presume you mean someone could call to my door from a body such as NSAI or PSA to inspect the installation to ensure the engineers work is up to scratch. If this was the case then I wouldn't let then in unless it suited me.

How easy it all is ...:rolleyes:
The simple fact of the matter is I doubt any reputable company is going to agree to what you want. Even if you do find some dogdy operator to do this , you are voiding your home insurance the minute your system stops conforming to EN50131. You are happy to risk your home being destroyed & not getting a penny just because you like to tinker with your alarm??
It beggers belief. If you want to tinker why not just buy a panel & a keypad & make it up on a bench??

Intruder Alarm Questions and Answers

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