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Coming home? Are you thinking about it?

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    #32
    Tom Dunne
    Registered Users Posts: 23,212 ✭✭✭✭Tom Dunne


    Suaimhneach wrote: »
    To the folks who live in non-english speaking languages, do you learn the language or survive without it?

    Here in the Middle East, it's a tricky one.

    In my job contract (I work in a third-level college) it actually stipulates that in addition to our core subject area, we are also expected to teach the students English (in reality, that means speaking to them in English, enforcing English as the language in the classroom and giving them assignments only in English).

    Also in any service industry, the primary language is English. And of course, the locals all have generally good standards of the language, so in the time that I have been here (5+ years), I've learned about three words. :o


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    #33
    jester77
    Registered Users Posts: 11,262 ✭✭✭✭jester77


    Suaimhneach wrote: »
    Thanks for all the replies. To the folks who live in non-english speaking languages, do you learn the language or survive without it?

    Language is not really an issue. When you are surrounded the whole day by the language you quickly pick it up. It's everywhere, from work, socialising, media,
    going shopping, so it's not like you can avoid it. It's a basic requirement for getting by.

    Oh and Hawaii is awesome. Make sure and do the road to Hana and a sunset tour on Mauna Kea.


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    #34
    murphaph
    Registered Users Posts: 19,018 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    Suaimhneach wrote: »
    Thanks for all the replies. To the folks who live in non-english speaking languages, do you learn the language or survive without it?
    You can't really properly exist in a country where you don't speak the local language. We're building a house this year near Berlin. Tradesmen generally don't speak English. I couldn't imagine building this house without a decent command of German.


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    #35
    keithclancy
    Registered Users Posts: 9,222 ✭✭✭keithclancy


    Magico Gonzalez wrote: »
    Conversely the Irish weather was one of the initial triggers for me to start thinking about leaving Ireland.

    I bought a dog, a good walk and a chat with the hound soon sorts me out.

    That was one of my real dislikes with Ireland

    I couldn't bring my dog on any public transport.

    I couldn't bring my dog into a cafe/pub/restaurant without real research beforehand.

    If we went on a trip we had to find a hotel that would allow a dog, there's very very few in Ireland, here in NL it's completely normal to bring your dog with you to a hotel

    People just left their dogs run around on the street chasing cars and left their dog sh1t all over the place without picking up after them.

    In Cork anyway there are hardly any bins on the beach or around the estates so people just don't bother.

    They even had a Doggy Swim Day at the National Swim Center in Eindhoven :)

    https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Ftongelreep.nl%2Fnieuws%2Fhondenplons-in-nationaal-zwemcentrum-de-tongelreep.html&edit-text=

    Bringing our Dutch dog back to Ireland for 6 months really opened my eyes,


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    #36
    Magico Gonzalez
    Registered Users Posts: 2,328 ✭✭✭Magico Gonzalez


    Suaimhneach wrote: »
    What are the chances, us too! San Jose to Maui - cant wait. :)

    Thanks for all the replies. To the folks who live in non-english speaking languages, do you learn the language or survive without it?

    Absolutely 100% had to learn the language, family don't speak much English and there is plenty of them. To be honest there is a good number of expats who come down for a year or 2 and don't get to grips with it. I guess they hang out with other expats and locals with English. I am more comfortable with immersion, I spend 90% of my day speaking Spanish now, to the extent that my English has suffered a little. I cherish the Irish connections we have here, but in my experience most of the Irish we've met here (over 30 anyway) are long term immigrants who speak Spanish very well.

    The language really opens up so much culturally, there's a good local theatre scene which would be a shame to miss out on. Reading the local media gives you the ability to learn more about your host country. I've been able to take carpentry (a disaster!) classes, cookery classes and even a business start up course in Spanish all of which I would have missed out on with getting to at least an advanced level of Spanish. I would estimate that takes 2 years if you are quick and dedicated, ....more like nearly 3 in my case :)


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    #37
    Magico Gonzalez
    Registered Users Posts: 2,328 ✭✭✭Magico Gonzalez


    keithclancy wrote: »
    That was one of my real dislikes with Ireland

    I couldn't bring my dog on any public transport.

    I couldn't bring my dog into a cafe/pub/restaurant without real research beforehand.

    If we went on a trip we had to find a hotel that would allow a dog, there's very very few in Ireland, here in NL it's completely normal to bring your dog with you to a hotel

    People just left their dogs run around on the street chasing cars and left their dog sh1t all over the place without picking up after them.

    ps. It's usually warm enough here to eat outside, at least for the hardy Irish. 19c today. Locals wrapped up like it's baltic out, I'll be in my short sleeve shirt.

    In Cork anyway there are hardly any bins on the beach or around the estates so people just don't bother.

    They even had a Doggy Swim Day at the National Swim Center in Eindhoven :)

    https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Ftongelreep.nl%2Fnieuws%2Fhondenplons-in-nationaal-zwemcentrum-de-tongelreep.html&edit-text=

    Bringing our Dutch dog back to Ireland for 6 months really opened my eyes,

    In Argentina they are very dog friendly. Need a bit of improvement in the picking up of the shyte, but they are getting there. We wouldn't bring our dog to a hotel, I wouldn't be mad about a hotel crammed full of dogs, but we do frequently hire apartments that accept hounds and go to cabins or ranches in he countryside which cater for them.

    Our slightly demented president recently ruled that "small dogs" are allowed to fly on the national carrier on your lap. Going to test that out this year.


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    #38
    jiminho
    Registered Users Posts: 389 ✭✭jiminho


    sashafierce wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    Ok fair enough. I just want to put it out to people to not let the weather be the factor not to stay in Canada. I live in Alberta and I have friends living in most major cities in the country as well. Even know a few people from Yellowknife. The majority of seasons I've been here have been like this:
    Winter: November to March - Cold especially January and February where it can be bitterly cold. Although look at irish weather during winter. Raining and windy. You wrap up warm in Canada and you're grand regardless of the temp.
    Spring/Autumn: October/ April / May - You do get four distinct seasons here. Autumn is particularly nice in the Rockies. Although April can still be quite cold same with October they can also be quite warm as well. It was high teens on the last day of October last year.
    Summer: June to September - June is a bit hit or miss but I wouldn't says it's cold. Looking at 31 degrees here on Monday and it's been quiet warm the last while. July and August can be very hot but the great thing I found is the days in those two months are consistently great weather. You can plan something for the weekend without fear of rain. And it does rain here, but the thunderstorms tend to happen in the evenings.

    To each their own; four distinct seasons or fair weather year round.


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    #39
    CelticRambler
    Registered Users Posts: 6,695 ✭✭✭CelticRambler


    Upped and left in 1991 with the intention of getting a few years experience in England before coming home. Finally gave it some serious thought twelve years (one wife and four children) later, but we spent three months in Dublin, did the sums and nothing added up. Also the Ireland of 2003 was way out of line with our family ideals, so we came to France instead.

    Another decade later, children are all-growed-up (kind of!) and I've been back, done some interviews and once again done the sums. The figures add up better now, but when all is said and done, I can have the same quality of life here in France (by my standards) if I can get five months work in the year, instead of working full-time with five weeks holiday in Ireland. So I'm staying put for the foreseeable future.
    Suaimhneach wrote: »
    For people who said they're staying away, which is a perfectly legit choice, how do you handle visits home? Do you use your vacation/holiday days? Do you just go home a lot less? Did you make entire new lives and settle?

    I'm effectively self-employed (short-term contracts), so can have as much time off as I want. Being geographically closer doesn't make the trip much easier - 4hr drive/train to the airport + check-in + 1.5hr flight: I'm already at half the length of your journey, so I tend to make it a long stay - two weeks minimum, four weeks max. I buy a one-way ticket and decide when to come back based on what's going on with family & friends. (Free parking in France is great! :D )

    Family&Friends come here too, and we're all on each other's e-mail/text/whatsapp lists, so when the messages are flying back and forth, it doesn't make much difference whether we're all in the same town or in different countries (currently in four different EU countries).
    Suaimhneach wrote: »
    To the folks who live in non-english speaking languages, do you learn the language or survive without it?
    You can survive with out it, but life is so much better when you learn the language. For a start, you vastly improve your chances of getting work! But more importantly, you get to meet people who share your interests, not just your native language, which goes a long way to making it "home".


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    #40
    keithclancy
    Registered Users Posts: 9,222 ✭✭✭keithclancy


    Magico Gonzalez wrote: »
    In Argentina they are very dog friendly. Need a bit of improvement in the picking up of the shyte, but they are getting there. We wouldn't bring our dog to a hotel, I wouldn't be mad about a hotel crammed full of dogs, but we do frequently hire apartments that accept hounds and go to cabins or ranches in he countryside which cater for them.

    Our slightly demented president recently ruled that "small dogs" are allowed to fly on the national carrier on your lap. Going to test that out this year.

    https://www.klm.com/travel/gb_en/prepare_for_travel/travel_planning/pets/index.htm
    Pets in the cabin
    A small cat or dog can be taken into the Economy Class cabin of most KLM flights, and in Business Class on most KLM flights within Europe:

    In a suitable pet travel bag with max. dimensions 46 (length) x 28 (width) x 24 (height) cm, or in a hard kennel with max. dimensions 46 (length) x 28 (width) x 20 (height) cm. Your pet must be able to stand up and lay down comfortably.
    Total weight of pet + travel bag or kennel may be max. 8 kg (18 lbs).
    The kennel must be put under the seat in front of you. It is not allowed to take your pet out of the travel bag or kennel.

    Always make a reservation by telephone or through My Trip at least 48 hours in advance. Please note that we have room for a limited number of kennels in the cabin. It is not possible to reserve a seat in the Economy Comfort zone when travelling with your pet in the cabin. Unfortunately it is also not possible to bring a pet in the cabin in Business Class on intercontinental KLM flights, because there is no space for your pet under the seat in front of you.


    :pac::pac::pac::pac::pac:


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    #41
    biddywiddy
    Registered Users Posts: 440 ✭✭biddywiddy


    Moved to the US Midwest 2 years ago. We like it here - small college town, near a well-connected airport, proper summers. The winters are harsh here too. Really low temps from Dec - March.

    We have no plans to move back to Ireland yet. My OH can apply for citizenship in 2017, so we will probably need to figure out our plans at that stage. Each time we go to Ireland, it feels less and less like home. We miss family and friends, especially if we're not there for big events, but we don't miss the place or the weather. I speak to my family on Skype every weekend (agree that the calls can be tedious, but it makes them happy).
    Suaimhneach wrote: »
    Do you use your vacation/holiday days? Do you just go home a lot less? Did you make entire new lives and settle? I am curious because I find the mix of my "time off" being family&friends visit us/we visit home/there is some small % of time left over for us to travel to be a big burden.

    My OH and I both have 22 vacation days. We've gone home twice a year since moving, which does suck up your holidays and doesn't leave much time for our own (US) trips. Plus a trip home isn't really a holiday. We can't get a direct flight to Ireland from here, and then we try to fit in as many family and friend visits and meet-ups as possible, leaving us exhausted (and in need of a detox!) by the time we get back.

    We're moving to the East Coast in the autumn. The huge bonus is a direct flight to Ireland. We hate the one-stop trips we have to take to get home, so we're excited for the drop in price and flight time. The downside is that I will only have 10 vacation days in my new job (though I'm hoping to negotiate paying for a few extra). Two trips to Ireland per year is pretty much off the table now, or will be very difficult to manage, but hopefully family and friends will visit us more.


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    #42
    Suaimhneach
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 4,436 Mod ✭✭✭✭Suaimhneach


    All these replies are great, so interesting to read. I wonder what's a common skill/attitude/something inherent that the people who are happy to stay away (and do so happily and successfully) are?

    Also curious about people who went home and if they regretted it?

    I'm really trying to decide what I want to do. I must be mad to leave California (weather! career! lifestyle!) but I cant figure out fitting in here or making friends at all and I'm a really social person who has never struggled with this. Not sure if it's just where we are based (1 hour + from the big city) or if I just truly wanna go home. I have been seriously stuck in a rut about it for months!


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    #43
    Minderbinder
    Registered Users Posts: 2,030 ✭✭✭Minderbinder


    OP, I lived in Korea for a while and then decided to go back to Ireland. After three weeks at home I regretted my decision. I felt trapped in the same old routine, the same conversations and I was bored out of my mind. Unless you can guarantee a job you shouldn't move back. Even if i was guaranteed a job i wouldn't go back to be honest. the lifestyle is too slow and social life revolves too much around pubs and alcohol.

    I'm in china now and i'm addicted to the fast pace of life and the ease at which i can make friends and find opportunities. This summer i'm moving to the UK to start a business. i'll really miss china but i imagine i'll come back at some stage.

    i have learned a small bit of chinese but i should have done more.

    my main point here is that the first few weeks back in Ireland might be nice but that'll soon wear off and you'll be bored and you'll be pining for freedom and travel and foreign lands.


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    #44
    Crann na Beatha
    Registered Users Posts: 11,763 ✭✭✭✭Crann na Beatha


    This post has been deleted.


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    #45
    CelticRambler
    Registered Users Posts: 6,695 ✭✭✭CelticRambler


    biddywiddy wrote: »
    we try to fit in as many family and friend visits and meet-ups as possible, leaving us exhausted (and in need of a detox!) by the time we get back.

    :pac: One of my sons did a solo trip to see the family Ireland last year; his little sister is doing it next month. His advice: don't eat before you go! :eek:

    (And don't plan to do anything else in the day after you hook up with the cousins!)
    Suaimhneach wrote: »
    All these replies are great, so interesting to read. I wonder what's a common skill/attitude/something inherent that the people who are happy to stay away (and do so happily and successfully) are?

    Don't know if it's the common link, but for me it was hearing an interview with Ronnie Drew waaaaayyyyyyy back in the 80s. "You can never go home" is what he said (or at least how I remember him saying it) - you change while you're away and the country changes while you're gone.

    Suaimhneach wrote: »
    I'm a really social person who has never struggled with this. Not sure if it's just where we are based (1 hour + from the big city) or if I just truly wanna go home.

    Could be just where you are at the moment. It was similar for me when I was in England - distracted by work and getting married, having children etc, but once the novelty of that had worn off, there was nothing else. It wasn't until we moved to France that I realised that there had even been something missing - but I've been able to replace that bit of Irish life with something at least as good here, and better in many ways.


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    #46
    baker59
    Registered Users Posts: 108 ✭✭baker59


    CelticRambler wrote: »
    You can never go home you change while you're away and the country changes while you're gone.
    Very much agree with that line.
    but I cant figure out fitting in here or making friends at all and I'm a really social person who has never struggled with this.

    I don't know if it is used in the States but meetup is a good site for this kind of thing. IMO, not the social groups, I went to one event organised by a group that was entitled "Expats nights out" or something along those lines, it was awful but since I've joined a sports team and it's a great way to meet people.
    My advise is to find a group on that site or somewhere else that is based around an activity/sport.


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    #47
    ForEffsSake
    Registered Users Posts: 63 ✭✭ForEffsSake


    Just thought I'd give you my experience of moving home as there seems to be a lot of people who've had negative ones. Ours (so far!) has been very positive. We lived in London for 11 years so it's a bit different in that culturally, it's not vastly different and there are no language barriers. It's also a quick plane ride away. We settled well there, made lovely friends but after a few years I started to feel really homesick. I'd never considered moving back before that but I think the combination of my older child starting school and having my second child meant that I was really starting to put down roots and was getting more and more permanent.
    I realised that if we were ever going to move we'd have to do it before the children got too old. However, it was 2008 and the sh*t hit the fan in Ireland.
    Come 2012, we made up our minds to go for it. We knew we would have to accept pay cuts and we would really miss our London friends but it was basically now or never.
    I intentionally moved to a town that neither of us were from but was halfway between our families with good links to Dublin, where we both worked. I had schools, childcare (luckily on the school site) and a rental property lined up before we came back.
    One thing we found difficult was our dog. It's a very unfriendly place for dogs as regards renting/holidaying. It was a huge barrier to us finding somewhere to rent. Ican't say i blame landlors though. The old 'working dogs' mentality is still there and people don't often take time to socialise and properly train their dogs to live at home. So often the place can be destroyed by them.

    Nearly two years on and we've settled really well. My children are loving the school and the freedom I would never have given them in London. It was hard for my eldest at first but he's fine now. Through GAA and school we've made lovely friends and we're currently buying a house. We don't miss the drop in salary at all, London is very expensive so it still feels relatively cheaper here! I love my job but would like to work part-time as I did in London so will try for that.

    I feel it was the right decision for us. But we are both Irish which helps massively. We moved to a town where we knew no-one so we made a huge effort to make friends and get involved rather than trying to slot in around existing friends and realising they'd moved on. We can hop in the car and be with family in half an hour. Get to attend all family events - even minor ones that don't warrant a trip home! And it's been lovely catching up with old friends and seeing them for the odd weekend afternoon or Sunday lunch. We love the local town (Maynooth)and as it's a small university town it's got a lovely youthful vibe to it. Some complain about the students but I think they improve a place!

    Sorry for the long post but just wanted to put out a positive example. I never want to move again and hope I never have to. Do a bit of research, accept you may have to drop in salary but in our case, we have a better standard of living and our holidays are now our own 😀. Also I would strongly advise renting before buying. It got a bit mental here last year again but it seems to have calmed. We paid more than we thought we would have to but I'm glad we rented and had the time to make sure it was the right decision.


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    #48
    Suaimhneach
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 4,436 Mod ✭✭✭✭Suaimhneach


    Wow, thanks again everyone for the really considered replies :)

    I dont think there is one true answer for everyone. Some folks love travel and fast pace, some dont. Some love city life and big bucks and some dont. I think it's about finding what's right for you, which is not an easy question to answer.

    I think I have a plan. At the end of this year start seriously looking for a job that will 1) be awesome and 2) relocate us, with optional 3) see if my SO can get moved home with his job. We will try living at home for a year, and if we hate it we can look at moving back to the US, or to try London or something. From what everyone here says you tend to know within a few months if home will work for you, or not.

    I honestly think it will work out though. My best friend who's been in NY and Toronto for 2+ years is going home in July, and my other friends I've kept in touch with are so excited to have us back. There is a life waiting for us there, just gotta wait a few months for it (for CV reasons, wanna have one year in my most recent promotion on my CV and wanna enjoy a last summer here). Though moving back in December might be a bad move too! Ah, it'll be grand. Will figure it out :)

    Thanks again all.

    Was gonna ask if there was any interest in an "immigrants return to Ireland" forum, but I think the majority of the posts were for staying away?


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    #49
    Undertow
    Registered Users Posts: 316 ✭✭Undertow


    Suaimhneach wrote: »
    Was gonna ask if there was any interest in an "immigrants return to Ireland" forum, but I think the majority of the posts were for staying away?

    Yeah thats a great idea! Or have a sticky for it? There seems to be heaps of people considering the move at the moment, especially from the land down under. It would also be good to find out more about how the economy is doing in general, which sectors are on the rise, what opportunites are available etc etc!


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    #50
    Suaimhneach
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 4,436 Mod ✭✭✭✭Suaimhneach


    Yeah and very practical things like "can I get an irish driving licence with my american permit?" (no), and "how do I re-register for taxes?" (no idea) and "am I entitled to the dole while I settle in and look for a job?" (probably not cuz you havent paid taxes?) and "I am having regret about leaving, what do I do?" (general reassurance/life experience per this thread?)... if there is more interest I'll request it :)


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    #51
    Wompa1
    Registered Users Posts: 8,165 ✭✭✭Wompa1


    Moved to the US 3.5 years ago by myself, to a place where I don't know anybody.

    I'm hopefully going to move back in 4 or 5 years. I'm currently working 3 jobs. I plan to save as much money as possible and then return to a rural part of the country and buy a home...hopefully without the need for a mortgage or at least with only getting a small mortgage. Ideally, I would like to keep a job with an American company and work remotely but if I can't, that's fine. I'd like to be in a position in which it doesn't matter if I work in McDonalds..it should still be enough to live comfortably without rent or a mortgage.

    I was making a 5th of what I'm making here when I lived back in Galway. I'm under no illusions that I will be make good money when I move back but Ireland has a lot going for it.


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    #52
    sashafierce
    Registered Users Posts: 3,599 ✭✭✭sashafierce


    This post has been deleted.


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    #53
    iusedtoknow
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,698 ✭✭✭iusedtoknow


    sashafierce wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    I am earning 4 times what I was earning when I lived in Spain. Granted my rent is also 4 times more expensive than it was in Spain as well.


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    #54
    Wompa1
    Registered Users Posts: 8,165 ✭✭✭Wompa1


    sashafierce wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    No. My main full time job is paying me 5 times more than my last job in Ireland. I work in IT in Phoenix, Arizona. Worked in IT in Galway.


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    #55
    jaymcg91
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,015 ✭✭✭jaymcg91


    It seems low paid, admin jobs pay worse overseas but degree / masters requiring jobs pay better?


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    #56
    iusedtoknow
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,698 ✭✭✭iusedtoknow


    jaymcg91 wrote: »
    It seems low paid, admin jobs pay worse overseas but degree / masters requiring jobs pay better?

    Can only talk for SF, but I know of a office admin who is on $54000 a year - that is pretty much standard across the board here, but the COL here is off the charts.


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    #57
    Wompa1
    Registered Users Posts: 8,165 ✭✭✭Wompa1


    jaymcg91 wrote: »
    It seems low paid, admin jobs pay worse overseas but degree / masters requiring jobs pay better?

    Most people I work with here don't have a degree.


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    #58
    Long Gone
    Registered Users Posts: 771 ✭✭✭Long Gone


    jiminho wrote: »
    Bit of an exaggeration unless you're living very far north

    It wasn't an exaggeration for the winter 2013/2104 - And I live in Edmonton which is central for Canada. Far North is somewhere like Yellowknife !


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    #59
    optimistic_
    Registered Users Posts: 657 ✭✭✭optimistic_


    Thinking about it? Thought about it and doing it.
    I miss family. I miss Dublin. I miss friends. I miss the convenience of popping into a local shop for something you need. Miss easily getting a can of beer.
    Have an interview lined up for before going home. Should be in work one or two days after I get back.


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    #60
    FURET
    Closed Accounts Posts: 685 ✭✭✭FURET


    I have no plans to return home for at least 20 years if I can help it. I love being an expat for various reasons. There are three huge factors preventing me from going back to Ireland:
    • I found the Irish social scene awful (drink, sport, sport and drink) and see no evidence that I would enjoy it any more if I were to go back
    • I save well in excess of 100k per year where I am, while still living very comfortably; this level of saving would not be possible in 10 years if I lived in Ireland
    • I love expat life. Honestly, every day still feels like a working holiday for me, and there's no sign of this feeling going away


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    #61
    Wompa1
    Registered Users Posts: 8,165 ✭✭✭Wompa1


    FURET wrote: »
    I have no plans to return home for at least 20 years if I can help it. I love being an expat for various reasons. There are three huge factors preventing me from going back to Ireland:
    • I found the Irish social scene awful (drink, sport, sport and drink) and see no evidence that I would enjoy it any more if I were to go back
    • I save well in excess of 100k per year where I am, while still living very comfortably; this level of saving would not be possible in 10 years if I lived in Ireland
    • I love expat life. Honestly, every day still feels like a working holiday for me, and there's no sign of this feeling going away

    Are you in the middle east? Is it 100k euros?


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