Coming home? Are you thinking about it?

Suaimhneach · 31-05-2015 10:21pm #1

I've been reading some Generation Immigration stuff on the Irish Times (some of it amazing, some of it embarrassing) and found the Migrant Project which includes info on leaving and returning Ireland.

I know there's a huge mix of reasons why people leave, and stay away, but I'd love to talk to people who are thinking about returning and the pros and cons of both.

For me, I think I'll be ok to secure a job but will definitely take a significant salary cut. But, no money in the world could pay me enough to keep me missing out on friends and family, so that's how I have made the decision now to probably come home in a year or so. My challenge is my partner would prefer to stay, because of the higher standard of living.

Would love to hear thoughts from other people considering the same. Maybe if there's enough interest we should get our own forum, haha. Also apologies if this already exists (I searched!) or this is in the wrong forum!

Tom Dunne · 01-06-2015 4:28am

Yeah, myself and herself have decided we are "on the road home". Maybe not in the immediate term, but almost certainly within the next two years.

I'm living in the Middle East for the past six years and I think it comes to a point where I feel I have achieved as much as I can. Sure, the lifestyle is good, the money is good, the people are great, we have regular visitors and we get home 2-3 times a year, but there is always the longing to go back home for good, a sense that things are really only temporary.

Looking at job websites in Ireland, I would have a reasonably good chance of getting a decent job in Ireland at the moment (I have a fairly good set of skills on my CV that straddle a number of industries). The fact that I will endure a paycut doesn't even come into it - it's a given and not an issue for me.

iusedtoknow · 01-06-2015 2:19pm

I've been gone close to 10 years now and it couldn't be further from my mind. Part of is that Ireland has changed a lot in those 10 years, and I'm unsure if it really is "home" now. TBH, I love the changes that I see in Irish society (especially with the last referendum) but whenever I am back there is something that I can't put my finger on that feels different. Maybe if I took the plunge I wouldn't notice it.

The other thing is that my wife's "home" isn't Ireland - it's Spain. Her mother is widowed but hale and hearty and the same with my own parents. My father is only recently retired and they off to Chile and Peru in November. If we moved back to Europe, at the moment it would make the most sense to move to Spain but for me personally, it would be career suicide..not to mention financial. The wife ironically would probably earn slightly more there than she does here as a doctor.

We recently got granted our American green cards and are now on the way to becoming citizens. I think once we've seen out commitments here on the west coast, we'll be moving further east to make the frequent trips we make to Ireland easier (the 13 hour monster from Dublin to San Francisco is not a pleasant thing to put yourself through a few times a year).

Magico Gonzalez · 01-06-2015 3:13pm

Sometimes I think about it, the fact that it's 21c here in late autumn (almost winter) makes a compelling argument not too!

Depends where you live, with Argentina and I guess South America in general there are always "stability" concerns. The Irish "crisis" was fairly pale in comparison to what has happened here previously. We keep Ireland in the back of our minds as a safety net.

If we have a kid, it's possible that Ireland would become more appealing, right now they wet and grey weather fills me with dread every time I think about moving home.

jester77 · 01-06-2015 3:20pm

15 years gone and can't ever see myself returning. When you live somewhere where things just work (health care, public transport, government, etc) then it is too difficult to give that up. Lower taxes and being close to family would be nice, but the sacrifice is now too big.

keithclancy · 02-06-2015 3:54pm

Went back for 6 months to visit Ireland and didn't like it, only felt at home when I got back to NL.

Zambia · 02-06-2015 4:15pm

No, but we don't know what the future holds.

Mrs OBumble · 02-06-2015 4:25pm

Nothing says "Irish summer" quite like the hailstones we had at the weekend.

Ponster · 02-06-2015 5:05pm

17 years gone. Maybe someday but I realise that it's far from the same country that I left. I'd be looking at a 30% pay-cut so maybe closer to retirement age or if I decide to change career.

sashafierce · 02-06-2015 9:01pm

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wuffly · 03-06-2015 6:27am

We left almost 5 years ago, plan was to travel for a few months then settle in Dubai for two years. Getting work and set up in Dubai took longer than we expected, (it wasn't the best time to move here) but it has been worth it overall. We are now looking at a cut off date of 2020, most likely at least 2-3 more years. I has been an entirely different experience to what I had thought it was going to be. OH is setting up his own business which hopefully will make the move home a lot easier. At the moment I'm the main bread winner but I will need to diversify my skills in next few years to be able to get a decent job at home. I love to travel but its expensive going anywhere from here, its so much more reasonable in Europe and when I'm living at home I won't need to use my leave to visit home. There are a lot of reasons why it can never be home long term(Can't naturalise etc...) I get home pretty often at least once a year if not more so its not that I miss home so much as I am at stage where I am ready to settle make somewhere home and for us that place is Ireland.
Pros:
Buy a house with little or no mortgage
Own our own business
Close to family/friends
Education (Free-ish)
Democratic
Green

Cons
Tax
Price of everything
Job availability for me
Health insurance
Car insurance

Gone West · 03-06-2015 6:36am

Suaimhneach wrote: »

I've been reading some Generation Immigration stuff on the Irish Times (some of it amazing, some of it embarrassing) and found the Migrant Project which includes info on leaving and returning Ireland.

I know there's a huge mix of reasons why people leave, and stay away, but I'd love to talk to people who are thinking about returning and the pros and cons of both.

For me, I think I'll be ok to secure a job but will definitely take a significant salary cut. But, no money in the world could pay me enough to keep me missing out on friends and family, so that's how I have made the decision now to probably come home in a year or so. My challenge is my partner would prefer to stay, because of the higher standard of living.

Would love to hear thoughts from other people considering the same. Maybe if there's enough interest we should get our own forum, haha. Also apologies if this already exists (I searched!) or this is in the wrong forum!

Fair play to you. At some point in the next 2 years I will settle back in Ireland for good.
I've been everywhere, and even though Ireland has it's problems, it's home and I wouldn't settle anywhere else.

Suaimhneach · 03-06-2015 6:55am

Thanks everyone for the replies

Yeah I have to do the San Francisco <-> Dublin 11 hour flight to go home, and that has made it absolutely killer. The time suck + cost is a burden. I've considered trying to find something on the east cost but the weather seems like an insane thing to take on, but then it is literally half the cost and half the time to get home.

I could consider London as a compromise I guess, but I have never really loved it there and it would just feel like more delaying the inevitable I think?

For people who said they're staying away, which is a perfectly legit choice, how do you handle visits home? Do you use your vacation/holiday days? Do you just go home a lot less? Did you make entire new lives and settle? I am curious because I find the mix of my "time off" being family&friends visit us/we visit home/there is some small % of time left over for us to travel to be a big burden.

For people planning to go home - what are you practically planning for? I feel like I need to start a list. Find a job, find a place, figure out taxes, move furniture (maybe? or sell it all?), best time of year to move, good enough reasons to delay a move (promotion, or some other reason).

wuffly · 03-06-2015 7:09am

Suaimhneach wrote: »

For people planning to go home - what are you practically planning for? I feel like I need to start a list. Find a job, find a place, figure out taxes, move furniture (maybe? or sell it all?), best time of year to move, good enough reasons to delay a move (promotion, or some other reason).

At the moment we are hoping that the business will be in a position to support us through the move so there won't be an income gap. I have spoken to a few industry people about myself and they are positive but turning it into work I think will be harder. Would start talking to people in the 1yr/6months before the move putting myself out there as available. Practically we are on the lookout for a house not hardcore yet but most likely next year or so. Also looking a buying a small car at home to cut down the massive insurance loading and to have it when we visit home, renting a car with decent insurance is outrageously costly. We would move around this of the year before summer hits Dubai and when the evenings are long at home (I miss long evenings) so we aren't moving in the depths of winter. We have furniture most of which will bring back as we have slowly bought nice stuff and I like to restore/upcycle stuff in my spare time. It would be better value for us to ship than to sell it.

wuffly · 03-06-2015 7:15am

I should have said the reason we are hoping to do it this way is to try and spread the cost of the financial hit over a few years as opposed to an almighty outlay when we get home. For us its a question of when not if so we can go slowly as such..

Undertow · 03-06-2015 8:51am

I'm in the same boat. I've spent 5 years split between Oz and NZ and I'm set to call it a day in this part of the world. One way flight booked home for Christmas. Going to spend the first couple of months of next year travelling (more like escaping the Irish winter!!) and try to get set up in Dublin or the UK in March/April of next year! I think its pretty important for anyone wishing to set up back home after a few years away, to at least head back and set up when the weather is half decent! Otherwise, it would be very tough to deal with I think. The UK is probably a more realistic destination, but that might as well be home when you've lived on the other side of the world for that long! Cant wait.

I think there comes a point in every emigrants life when they just say enough is enough. Personally speaking, I feel as if I've done it all on this side of the world and while it was a great experience, I feel as though the time has come to move on. As one of poster pointed it, it can get pretty lonely not having good friends and family about too. I don't even think the Irish economy is doing all that great, but there seems to be so many people making the move home from Oz and NZ within the last year!

jester77 · 03-06-2015 9:48am

Suaimhneach wrote: »

For people who said they're staying away, which is a perfectly legit choice, how do you handle visits home? Do you use your vacation/holiday days? Do you just go home a lot less? Did you make entire new lives and settle? I am curious because I find the mix of my "time off" being family&friends visit us/we visit home/there is some small % of time left over for us to travel to be a big burden.

I live 10 mins from the airport here. It takes me longer to get out of Dublin after arriving than it takes me to get from my house here to Dublin airport. 30 days holiday is standard here, plus the various public holidays. So this makes coming home easy, can come home a few times a year. Plus being so close I could be at home for dinner with my parents this evening if decided I want to leave now and the flight is not full. And my family comes out as well, it's easy for them to get here.

keithclancy · 03-06-2015 1:32pm

Suaimhneach wrote: »

For people who said they're staying away, which is a perfectly legit choice, how do you handle visits home? Do you use your vacation/holiday days? Do you just go home a lot less? Did you make entire new lives and settle? I am curious because I find the mix of my "time off" being family&friends visit us/we visit home/there is some small % of time left over for us to travel to be a big burden.

To be honest I think I see some friends/family more often living outside of Ireland than I did when I was living in Ireland.

You find yourself making an effort to visit people and the time is a bit more special.

I work in Germany so I get 30 days vacation days, Public Holidays and also any flextime I build up, also its quite common to take a sabbatical and I can work remotely as well.

Flights wise I have the choice of going from Work 20 minutes on a train directly to the airport in Dusseldorf and then a flight to Dublin, their also opening up a flight to Cork in the near future I hear.

We live in Eindhoven so we can also fly from Eindhoven - Dublin or Amsterdam - Dublin, Amsterdam - Cork as well.

It's pretty well connected, if I really need to get to Ireland the same day I can do that, we keep money aside for family emergencies, as a bonus we have options on our doorstep to hop into the car with the dog and drive anywhere on the continent we like and have one of the best connected Airports in the world which is around 1hr 35 mins on a train that runs every 30 minutes (I find myself taking this for granted now and when we went back for 6 months Irish Public transport was about as useful as a chocolate fireguard)

Also since we live in the Netherlands people come to visit us too, I can't remember anyone I know living in Ireland that wanted to come and visit me in Cork unless they lived abroad anyway :pac:

We don't really have that many Expat friends here , I found that was a trap many Irish/UK/US people fell into, your expat friends are on max 2 year contracts or they get homesick and go back to their home country which in turn causes the same problem for you.

Better to immerse yourself in the local life/people than try to hang on to things from your home country.

Travelling/Holidays, I think I do more Holidays here than when I lived in Ireland simply because there are so many options available to us without the need to get a Ferry or a Flight, we can even pop up to Amsterdam for a weekend and its a little holiday

Magico Gonzalez · 03-06-2015 1:48pm

Suaimhneach wrote: »

Thanks everyone for the replies

For people who said they're staying away, which is a perfectly legit choice, how do you handle visits home? Do you use your vacation/holiday days? Do you just go home a lot less? Did you make entire new lives and settle? I am curious because I find the mix of my "time off" being family&friends visit us/we visit home/there is some small % of time left over for us to travel to be a big burden.

14km, 13 hr flight to Europe then a connect to Dublin. I aim to do it every 2 years, with luck someone comes out in the interim. It's expensive given that our currency is useless outside of the country. Luckily we have some assets that would facilitate a return should it ever become a necessity. If you're living somewhere "precarious" a bit of long term planning and contingency planning is essential. Maybe that sounds stressful, but we're adventurous enough people, something in it keeps us stimulated.

I can't complain, my wife spent 10 years doing the same thing from Dublin to B.A. It's a compromise I'm happy to make and my family understand our reasons, try and get a skype in at the weekend although I find it a bit artificial. "Hello...here we are now, talk. Tell me your news!" Can be overwhelming at times.

iusedtoknow · 03-06-2015 2:36pm

Suaimhneach wrote: »

For people who said they're staying away, which is a perfectly legit choice, how do you handle visits home? Do you use your vacation/holiday days? Do you just go home a lot less? Did you make entire new lives and settle? I am curious because I find the mix of my "time off" being family&friends visit us/we visit home/there is some small % of time left over for us to travel to be a big burden.

My work is really flexible. I travel back to Europe 7 or 8 times a year and always latch on 4 or 5 days at the end of a trip where I work remotely from my parents place which allows me to visit. Every second trip I take vacation time so that I'm not working but to be honest, even when I am working - i am still out and about. I end up seeing my folks a lot which makes them happy.
I get 5 weeks vacation a year, my wife around the same. We do a full two weeks in Ireland/Spain every year and her mother will usually come over for two weeks - same with my folks.

Because of the nature of my wife's work (she's a doctor) she needs vacations without family as well to decompress. We always go away before a new batch of interns start (we're off to Hawaii next week). Also, if her schedule allows it, she will travel with me to europe for a few days and laze around - I usually go to Paris and Stockholm for work, so she enjoy's it.

As for new lives, we slipped into live in the US pretty easily. Personally, it was nice to be in a country where everyone spoke English. I don't drink so it initially made life a bit harder, but I now have a wide circle of friends where we go off hiking/cycling etc. My wife has made great friends through her work, and we hang out with them as well, with respective partner's.

sashafierce · 03-06-2015 3:20pm

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Magico Gonzalez · 03-06-2015 4:32pm

sashafierce wrote: »

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Conversely the Irish weather was one of the initial triggers for me to start thinking about leaving Ireland.

I bought a dog, a good walk and a chat with the hound soon sorts me out.

iusedtoknow · 03-06-2015 4:36pm

Magico Gonzalez wrote: »

I can't complain, my wife spent 10 years doing the same thing from Dublin to B.A. It's a compromise I'm happy to make and my family understand our reasons, try and get a skype in at the weekend although I find it a bit artificial. "Hello...here we are now, talk. Tell me your news!" Can be overwhelming at times.

Hola Porteño! Mi cuñada vive alli!

I know what you mean about Skype - it is so awkward. I get around it by having iMessage chats in the day, so that we do FaceTime etc, it is usually about something specific or a quick catch up with nieces/nephews than anything else. Keeps the awkwardness of the whole thing down.

jiminho · 03-06-2015 10:22pm

sashafierce wrote: »

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Bit of an exaggeration unless you're living very far north

iusedtoknow · 03-06-2015 10:33pm

jiminho wrote: »

Bit of an exaggeration unless you're living very far north

It is awful if you aren't used to it. My sister is Quebec and it took her 2 winters to get used to the relentlessness of it. She's been there 6 years now and hated the weather here in San Francisco when she came for Christmas - it was a balmy 17c for the whole week she was here.

sashafierce · 04-06-2015 4:18am

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clever user name · 04-06-2015 4:50am

Was gone 7 years...UK, Dubai, Singapore and then China. Came back for a year and I just didn't like it. I really don't know why. It felt great to be back and to see everyone, but after 2 months I just wanted to leave again. So now I've been in Thailand for 3 months. Will I ever go back? To be honest I don't think so. I'll visit of course, but that's about it.

Suaimhneach · 04-06-2015 4:55am

iusedtoknow wrote: »

We always go away before a new batch of interns start (we're off to Hawaii next week).

What are the chances, us too! San Jose to Maui - cant wait.

Thanks for all the replies. To the folks who live in non-english speaking languages, do you learn the language or survive without it?

Interesting skype has become my lifeline to my mam and a few friends, but my husband definitely has that reaction with his family.

I think we'll do the same, go home in a year or so and try make it work in Ireland. If not, look at our options. I cant see myself being happy anywhere else even though I'd really like to.

iusedtoknow · 04-06-2015 5:32am

Suaimhneach wrote: »

What are the chances, us too! San Jose to Maui - cant wait.

Thanks for all the replies. To the folks who live in non-english speaking languages, do you learn the language or survive without it?

Interesting skype has become my lifeline to my mam and a few friends, but my husband definitely has that reaction with his family.

I think we'll do the same, go home in a year or so and try make it work in Ireland. If not, look at our options. I cant see myself being happy anywhere else even though I'd really like to.

Ha! We're off to the Big Island. Can't wait for a bit of pool time and sightseeing.

On your other point..having lived in a non-english country before - i've seen people survive in ex-pat bubbles, especially in Barcelona.
You can survive without the language by living with foreigners, pointing at things and knowing enough to be polite. But the reality is - people that do that only survive away for so long before they realize there is more to life. It starts feeling really transitory and after a couple of years - they leave, or you stay and watch your friends leave. I saw a few people that I worked with fall into the trap of staying in that bubble - saw a few too many of them descend into alcoholism and drugs etc as there was no reason not to.

I was kinda lucky, i fell into life pretty easily and my group of friends, even ones through work were more on the local side than "expat" side. This was mostly because I fell into my wife's group of friends, but also my own ones, either through work or hobbies were more local. Nothing gets you to learn the language than being yelled at on a football pitch by a bunch of catalans.

ush · 04-06-2015 5:48am

This is home now.

ush · 04-06-2015 5:50am

Suaimhneach wrote: »

To the folks who live in non-english speaking languages, do you learn the language or survive without it?

Learn the lingo. You are only just existing otherwise. You'll end up dependent on other bitter "expat" p*ssheads. Hate that word "expat". You're an immigrant, deal with it.

Coming home? Are you thinking about it?

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