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New Household Tax - Boycott

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    #302
    fliball123
    Registered Users Posts: 7,445 ✭✭✭fliball123


    subway wrote: »
    too late, country f&cked.
    pay up or leave. govt cant cut any more expenditure.


    LIES complete lies can you put up a link to any information why it cannot cut any more.

    http://hydeproperty.com/property-information/90-ireland-revenue-expenditure-graph

    Even with more and more taxes over the last few years its actually brought in less you need to ask yourself the question why???and the answer is simple keep raping people for taxes and they become less likely to work or less likely to work in a country and continues to over tax its working population..Now the argument of income tax is low and I aggree it is but when you put USC, VAT and all other stealth charges not to mention road tolls onto the working man it comes to about 59% of your wage is being spent on tax...The graph proves that people are up over their limit and leaving...But sure we cannot cut anymore in expenditure...??REALLY ..we have one of the highest paid Public sectors in the world, we have one of most generous social welfare in the world and instead of tackling this increments are still going on in the PS ...So people will do the only thing they know and leave...but yeah lets keep taxing the guys who pay taxes as its working so well :(


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    #303
    meglome
    Registered Users Posts: 7,980 ✭✭✭meglome


    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    Seriously ? How would you reckon we might be "getting it back" ?

    Most of the money has gone into banks that are worth less than 3% of what was given to them, and that's not even including the contrived NAMA fiasco which has the idiots involved being paid another misdirected €200,000 per annum each to ensure that the properties don't drop too far below a supposed "discounted" buying price.....and NAMA was meant to chase the developers for the balance but refuses to do so.

    Yeah, we'll make the money back alright :rolleyes:

    Obviously the banks aren't worth much now but forgive me for being optimistic that they will be worth a large something in the future. The figure for NAMA losses are projected unofficially to be something like 3 billion. This is a large sum of money but it's a small part of our overall debt. However one thing I can be absolutely sure of is our overspending day to day is gone forever.
    Arfan wrote: »
    Sadly the German banks weren't sensible at all, hence why they're holding all these bad debts in the form of Greek and Irish banks.

    As has repeatedly been pointed out in here the Germans were not exposed to our banks in any meaningful way. Yes people say they were but don't seem to be able to show the facts and figures. The Greeks cooked the books to get into the Euro and to get their loans, they lied and they cheated. So rightly the Germans and French are not too happy but you cannot blame them for that. I wonder how much the Greeks owe us?


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    #304
    ei.sdraob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭ei.sdraob


    meglome wrote: »
    Obviously the banks aren't worth much now but forgive me for being optimistic that they will be worth a large something in the future. The figure for NAMA losses are projected unofficially to be something like 3 billion. This is a large sum of money but it's a small part of our overall debt. However one thing I can be absolutely sure of is our overspending day to day is gone forever.

    NAMA is the big elephant in the property market, how many billions is it costing the economy in lost sales, and the market not being able to adjust to its right level hence people not buying
    ?

    There are hidden costs to NAMA god know what they are but there is no denying that something as large as NAMA has no negative effect in the market and the economy as whole.


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    #305
    psychward
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,187 ✭✭✭psychward


    meglome wrote: »
    How do you figure that abolishing all quangos would save 15 billion? Where did you get that figure from?

    http://www.independent.ie/national-news/quangos-still-springing-up-as-agency-bill-tops-euro13bn-2419401.html

    Here and its's a conservative estimate from what I've seen as it doesnt include NAMA legal fees and all the other kicks in the nuts that FF gave us before they got thrown out of office.

    So some do gooder will come along and say oh but are u seriously saying we shut down such and such an agency etc blah blah someone think of the plight of lesbian feminradical non national transexual midgets. Thats the problem with this country. Everyone gets upset when their pet project gets cut. So just close them all down without fear or favor. This will result in more pork overall. We have plenty of public servants left (in fact too many) to figure out how to hand out pork without these parasitic quango middlemen taking a cut. In fact it would probably protect their jobs as they will have a greater purpose to exist. If we really need something we can start a new one on cheaper terms but realistically we managed to survive decades and had almost full employment towards the end of the 1990s without 95% of them. Once they are gone we can balance the books , tell the IMF to feck off if we so decide and with the growth in the economy will give politicians money again to fritter away and the pointless cycle of growth followed by bust etc will be back on track.


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    #306
    Liam Byrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    meglome wrote: »
    Obviously the banks aren't worth much now but forgive me for being optimistic that they will be worth a large something in the future.

    Sorry - that's not optimism, it's "cheapest bailout ever"-style delusion.

    Anglo is worthless, despite €55 billion or whatever being thrown at it. There is no way that will be recouped. AIB is an incompetent shower of idiots (first-hand experience) and this is its SECOND time being bailed out, despite the fact that we haven't yet paid off the effects of the first bailout.
    meglome wrote: »
    The figure for NAMA losses are projected unofficially to be something like 3 billion. This is a large sum of money but it's a small part of our overall debt.

    Absolute rubbish. NAMA paid WAY over the odds for stuff, on the presumption that they could sell stuff and on the promise that they would chase after developers for anything they lost, which they have already started to renege on.



    As has repeatedly been pointed out in here the Germans were not exposed to our banks in any meaningful way. Yes people say they were but don't seem to be able to show the facts and figures. The Greeks cooked the books to get into the Euro and to get their loans, they lied and they cheated. So rightly the Germans and French are not too happy but you cannot blame them for that. I wonder how much the Greeks owe us?[/QUOTE]


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    #307
    Chucky the tree
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,341 ✭✭✭✭Chucky the tree


    psychward wrote: »
    http://www.independent.ie/national-news/quangos-still-springing-up-as-agency-bill-tops-euro13bn-2419401.html

    Here and its's a conservative estimate from what I've seen as it doesnt include NAMA legal fees and all the other kicks in the nuts that FF gave us before they got thrown out of office.

    So some do gooder will come along and say oh but are u seriously saying we shut down such and such an agency etc blah blah someone think of the plight of lesbian feminradical non national transexual midgets. Thats the problem with this country. Everyone gets upset when their pet project gets cut. So just close them all down without fear or favor. This will result in more pork overall. We have plenty of public servants left (in fact too many) to figure out how to hand out pork without these parasitic quango middlemen taking a cut. In fact it would probably protect their jobs as they will have a greater purpose to exist. If we really need something we can start a new one on cheaper terms but realistically we managed to survive decades and had almost full employment towards the end of the 1990s without 95% of them. Once they are gone we can balance the books , tell the IMF to feck off if we so decide and with the growth in the economy will give politicians money again to fritter away and the pointless cycle of growth followed by bust etc will be back on track.


    They have cost €16bn since they have been set up, and considering some have been around 20 years it's not that surprising. I see nothing there that says they cost €15bn a year which is what you are implying.


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    #308
    Mach Lei
    Closed Accounts Posts: 86 ✭✭Mach Lei


    For everyone against the household charge/property tax, please share this link on your facebook wall and ask all your friends to sign up to this campaign, we shall be stronger in numbers-we shall be one-we shall be many.
    http://www.nohouseholdtax.org/


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    #309
    tmjb71
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3 ✭tmjb71


    I'm a new boardie because Im outraged at the household tax!:mad:

    Im a landlord and maybe because of this Im considered a baddie by some here but believe me Ive tried to sell my house and can't. Ive had to emigrate with my husband and two kids because we both became redundant. I live in the uk and pay Council (service) tax.

    As I can't get rid of house in Ireland (bought at height of market) I will have to pay service charges in two countries!! It’s ridiculous!


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    #310
    Mario007
    Registered Users Posts: 877 ✭✭✭Mario007


    tmjb71 wrote: »


    As I can't get rid of house in Ireland (bought at height of market) I will have to pay service charges in two countries!! It’s ridiculous!

    the sentence in bold kinda gives away where you made the mistake.


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    #311
    hallelujajordan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,080 ✭✭✭hallelujajordan


    tmjb71 wrote: »
    I'm a new boardie because Im outraged at the household tax!:mad:

    Im a landlord and maybe because of this Im considered a baddie by some here but believe me Ive tried to sell my house and can't. Ive had to emigrate with my husband and two kids because we both became redundant. I live in the uk and pay Council (service) tax.

    As I can't get rid of house in Ireland (bought at height of market) I will have to pay service charges in two countries!! It’s ridiculous!

    . . and why do you think you should pay the tax on your property in the UK and not on the one in Ireland . . ?


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    #312
    tmjb71
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3 ✭tmjb71


    Im renting in the UK. The household tax (council Tax) is the responsibility of the renters. Which makes sense, I use the services in the community. The Irish Household tax does not make sense as its a utility tax that i do not utilise.

    As for mistakes .... it was coming back to Ireland after emigrating initially in the 1990's. We won't be back again!


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    #313
    Mario007
    Registered Users Posts: 877 ✭✭✭Mario007


    tmjb71 wrote: »
    Im renting in the UK. The household tax (council Tax) is the responsibility of the renters. Which makes sense, I use the services in the community. The Irish Household tax does not make sense as its a utility tax that i do not utilise.

    As for mistakes .... it was coming back to Ireland after emigrating initially in the 1990's. We won't be back again!

    sorry to hear that but then all you have to do is sell the house and there won't be any need to pay the tax.

    you benefited during the boom (obviously you did since you bought a house at the hight of the market) and now have you decided to ditch the state and are trying to make up an excuse why not to pay tax. the tax is there for the house that you own for the better of the local community that is in the proximity of the house. It's not really the state's problem that you have moved away and decided to keep the house.

    It's a tax for having a house, simple as.


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    #314
    JustinDee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,684 ✭✭✭JustinDee


    tmjb71 wrote: »
    The Irish Household tax does not make sense as its a utility tax that i do not utilise
    The tax is a property tax on householders. You are a householder and therefore liable to pay it.
    A "utility tax" is a tax on a service provided publically.

    Nothing ridiculous about having to pay taxes where they are liable to be paid. Part of the problem of the tax black hole here is that there are far too many people diverting their funds elsewhere to evade payment. Nobody's fault that a house was bought and is unable to be offloaded. Thats the risk of investment. If there was no risk, there'd be no market in the first place.


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    #315
    Ian64
    Closed Accounts Posts: 120 ✭✭Ian64


    The lets not pay brigade, god love them!
    They want everything and they demand others should pay.
    I'm paying, I dont like it but who likes taxes?
    But I'm sick to the teeth of the "you pay for me " attitude of the lefties dolite class.
    Was delighted to note today that Dublins bin service has finally been privatised despite messers Higgins, Daly et al promising that it would never happen.


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    #316
    gerryo777
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,216 ✭✭✭gerryo777


    Mario007 wrote: »
    the sentence in bold kinda gives away where you made the mistake.
    Thats very clever of you, pointing out where she made a mistake. Well done:rolleyes:


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    #317
    gerryo777
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,216 ✭✭✭gerryo777


    Mario007 wrote: »
    sorry to hear that but then all you have to do is sell the house and there won't be any need to pay the tax.

    you benefited during the boom (obviously you did since you bought a house at the hight of the market) and now have you decided to ditch the state and are trying to make up an excuse why not to pay tax. the tax is there for the house that you own for the better of the local community that is in the proximity of the house. It's not really the state's problem that you have moved away and decided to keep the house.

    It's a tax for having a house, simple as.
    Eh NO, It's a tax being raised to pay secondary unsecured bondholders in our bankrupt financial institutions, end of story.
    If we were not being forced by the germans and french to pay this money we could invest in infrastructure and jobs here, getting people back to work is what we should be doing, getting people off the dole and back paying their income taxes and spending in the economy.......


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    #318
    lugha
    Registered Users Posts: 3,235 ✭✭✭lugha


    Mach Lei wrote: »
    For everyone against the household charge/property tax, please share this link on your facebook wall and ask all your friends to sign up to this campaign, we shall be stronger in numbers-we shall be one-we shall be many.
    http://www.nohouseholdtax.org/
    In one respect there is not much point in opposing the household charge. Even if the campaign is successful to such an extent that only a minority comply, even if this forced the government to U turn and scrap it, what will happen next?

    Well what won’t happen is that our debts will be reduced by what we would have taken in with this charge, so the government will simply look to raise the money some other way. And the method they select might well any individual one of us paying considerably more than this charge. Or maybe it will be less, or nothing. It’s simply a gamble.

    We don’t win if we manage to defeat this charge, we simply get to roll the dice again!


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    #319
    Good loser
    Registered Users Posts: 3,169 ✭✭✭Good loser


    lugha wrote: »
    In one respect there is not much point in opposing the household charge. Even if the campaign is successful to such an extent that only a minority comply, even if this forced the government to U turn and scrap it, what will happen next?

    Well what won’t happen is that our debts will be reduced by what we would have taken in with this charge, so the government will simply look to raise the money some other way. And the method they select might well any individual one of us paying considerably more than this charge. Or maybe it will be less, or nothing. It’s simply a gamble.

    We don’t win if we manage to defeat this charge, we simply get to roll the dice again!

    For instance car tax could be increased/doubled. That is also a wealth tax and proportionately a much higher burden. It doesn't matter a lot to me whether the money comes from my right pocket or my left pocket.


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    #320
    psychward
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,187 ✭✭✭psychward


    Good loser wrote: »
    For instance car tax could be increased/doubled. That is also a wealth tax and proportionately a much higher burden.

    It's only a wealth tax if the price of a car and the cost of keeping it and driving it is driven to insane levels due to taxation.And the effect is that someone lower or middle class just wont be able to afford a car. ( and I use the class terms loosely around income categories and nothing else). Are the people pushed out of the car market due to taxation considered wealthy ? I would consider them unlucky as driving is a convenient pleasure apart from the government sponsored shafting involved. If I cant have a car or stable a horse legally in my front garden then life just kinda sucks more. It's about raising the misery index for everyone then calling them wealthy if they sacrifice a lot of other things because they really want and are interested in driving. I love driving but I probably won't ever drive again unless I emigrate or am on holiday. I can always find a better more sensible home for my money. I find excessive taxes running into such insane figures to be as immoral as tax fraud and such taxes deny lifestyle and family benefits of occasional motoring to the less well off .


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    #321
    jank
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,018 ✭✭✭✭jank


    So how serious is this campaign is it a bunch of lefty's trying to keep busy.


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    #322
    RufustheKing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 44 ✭RufustheKing


    this whole issue just shows how bad Irish politics is. a bunch of populist politicians grabbing at any issue to get into power without offering any solutions. If we are to reform our politics then we have to scrutinize our opposition just as much as the government parties. Theres no point in voting one bunch of gob****es in because they are not the present guys in power.

    we as a country spend more than we make. dont pay this tax and another tax will come. we have to balance the books.


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    #323
    opinionated3
    Registered Users Posts: 2,144 ✭✭✭opinionated3


    RufustheKing wrote: »
    this whole issue just shows how bad Irish politics is. a bunch of populist politicians grabbing at any issue to get into power without offering any solutions. If we are to reform our politics then we have to scrutinize our opposition just as much as the government parties. Theres no point in voting one bunch of gob****es in because they are not the present guys in power.

    we as a country spend more than we make. dont pay this tax and another tax will come. we have to balance the books.
    I thought the common consensus among the experts was that you could not tax your way out of recession. I fail to see how our recovery will be sparked by all these new taxes?


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    #324
    donalg1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,513 ✭✭✭donalg1


    jank wrote: »
    So how serious is this campaign is it a bunch of lefty's trying to keep busy.

    Well how seriously do you take Mick Wallace?


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    #325
    JustinDee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,684 ✭✭✭JustinDee


    opinionated3 wrote: »
    I thought the common consensus among the experts was that you could not tax your way out of recession. I fail to see how our recovery will be sparked by all these new taxes?

    Thats the misleader.
    The usual critics are speaking from a so-called 'socialist' point-of-view. However, what they seem to conveniently ignore when referring to socialist havens such as the three Scandinavian countries as examples, high taxation is necessary for these ideals to function, even in an economy bouyed by the third largest oil reserve in the world (Norway).


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    #326
    Ian64
    Closed Accounts Posts: 120 ✭✭Ian64


    jank wrote: »
    So how serious is this campaign is it a bunch of lefty's trying to keep busy.
    Basically Yes. Remember that those most vocal in oppossing the tax and urging people to break the law because they claim they can defeat the tax are the very same loonies that promised that they would defeat bin charges and the privatization of refuse collection, particularly in Dublin.
    EH, remind me again who collects the bins in Dublin now?
    They lost that fight and they will lose this one.


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    #327
    Am Chile
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,025 ✭✭✭Am Chile


    Ian64 wrote: »
    Basically Yes. Remember that those most vocal in oppossing the tax and urging people to break the law because they claim they can defeat the tax are the very same loonies that promised that they would defeat bin charges and the privatization of refuse collection, particularly in Dublin.
    EH, remind me again who collects the bins in Dublin now?
    They lost that fight and they will lose this one.

    Ian from all your posts its obvious to most other posters you re either a member of fine gael or a member of fianna fail, who seems to have a very vested Interested in people paying the household tax.

    There,s a hell of a difference between the anti household tax campaign and the previous anti bin tax campaign, the anti bin tax wasn,t nationwide, it was more in the bigger cities like dublin, when the anti bin tax campaign was going on I never recalled any public meetings in my town about it, the anti household tax campaign was held over 100 crowded meetings all around the country in every county which the anti bin tax campaign never did, plus the anti bin tax campaign didn,t have 18 tds on its side all boycotting like the anti household tax campaign does,as well as a signifigant number of councilers prepared to boycott too.
    remind me again who collects the bins in Dublin now?

    One of the points the anti bin tax campaign argued was bin services would be privatised, they have been proven right.

    You re gonna face signifigant opposition to the household tax and you re gonna face signifigant opposition to the septic tank charges also.


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    #328
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,791 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    gerryo777 wrote: »
    If we were not being forced by the germans and french to pay this money we could invest in infrastructure and jobs here...
    Good idea. We should invest our annual budget surplus - whatever tax revenue is left over after we've paid public service wages and social welfare benefits - in infrastructure and jobs.

    Remind me: how much is that budget surplus, again?


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    #329
    psychward
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,187 ✭✭✭psychward


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    Good idea. We should invest our annual budget surplus - whatever tax revenue is left over after we've paid public service wages and social welfare benefits - in infrastructure and jobs.

    Remind me: how much is that budget surplus, again?

    Just to butt in slightly - we could invest the money we borrowed at the very least. Currently we borrow a hell of a lot of money in order to fill a black hole of private debt created by bankster and golden circle fraudsters


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    #330
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,791 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    psychward wrote: »
    Just to butt in slightly - we could invest the money we borrowed at the very least. Currently we borrow a hell of a lot of money in order to fill a black hole of private debt created by bankster and golden circle fraudsters
    Well, no. Mostly we borrow a hell of a lot of money to pay public servants and social welfare recipients.


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    #331
    psychward
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,187 ✭✭✭psychward


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    Well, no

    Eh.... Yes. Somehow mysteriously you typed the letters YES as no.

    oscarBravo wrote: »
    Mostly we borrow a hell of a lot of money to pay public servants and social welfare recipients.

    So this makes it ok to borrow even more money to add golden circle fraudsters and banksters to the welfare bandwagon ? At least the unemployed paid their stamps after overwhelmingly working honestly for over a decade. You don't see banksters collecting their money in the post office, joining dole queues or singing for their supper etc.


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