Abortion Discussion

Hotblack Desiato · 11-07-2013 9:28am

Labour's Michael McNamara of Clare voted against the Government on Amendment 10, but the party's Whip Emmet Stagg has said the vote was a genuine mistake.

Do they even know wtf they are voting on half the time? :mad:

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Soooo - I was knackered and went to bed with me kindle (stop tittering in the cheap seats). Did I miss anything interesting?

Two possibilities:

(a) No
(b) 300 posts were deleted. :pac:

Bannasidhe · 11-07-2013 9:37am

ninja900 wrote: »

Two possibilities:

(a) No
(b) 300 posts were deleted. :pac:

a) Ah.

b) That is outrageous! I demand we be given the choice to read 300 posts of the same-oh same-oh...actually, never mind....

Penn · 11-07-2013 9:41am

This seems to be one of the big talking points according to what I've seen on Twitter:

http://t.co/dJJi8R3H56

Bannasidhe · 11-07-2013 9:51am

Penn wrote: »

This seems to be one of the big talking points according to what I've seen on Twitter:

http://t.co/dJJi8R3H56

Just heard it called 'Lapgate'....:rolleyes:

Twatgate would be more like it.

Zombrex · 11-07-2013 9:54am

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Just heard it called 'Lapgate'....:rolleyes:

Twatgate would be more like it.

That seems to be something the Irish Independent invented. They were claiming it had "gone viral" after a few hours, but all the links I could find were to their website.

kylith · 11-07-2013 11:04am

I'm unsure on that video; the quality isn't great and we can't hear what's going on so for all we know she didn't mind it.

Granted it does appear that this man has no respect for a woman's boundaries, and she does appear to pull away very abruptly, but that of itself means nothing.

Corkfeen · 11-07-2013 12:15pm

kylith wrote: »

I'm unsure on that video; the quality isn't great and we can't hear what's going on so for all we know she didn't mind it.

Granted it does appear that this man has no respect for a woman's boundaries, and she does appear to pull away very abruptly, but that of itself means nothing.

The thing is, it should never have occurred during such a serious debate and shows a lack of respect for the Dail at the very least . Funnily enough, Barry is the same guy who wrote to Papal Nuncio to confirm he wouldn't be excommunicated, I guess he has done old school Christian misogyny going on too...

bumper234 · 11-07-2013 1:02pm

High court challenge being lodged today

Bannasidhe · 11-07-2013 1:18pm

bumper234 wrote: »

High court challenge being lodged today

Can they do that when it hasn't actually been passed yet?

kylith · 11-07-2013 1:20pm

Corkfeen wrote: »

The thing is, it should never have occurred during such a serious debate and shows a lack of respect for the Dail at the very least . Funnily enough, Barry is the same guy who wrote to Papal Nuncio to confirm he wouldn't be excommunicated, I guess he has done old school Christian misogyny going on too...

It looks to me like it was during a break in proceedings. Are they supposed to remain serious for the entire time that they're in the building?

If it was done without her permission then it was certainly out of order, but for all we know she asked if she could sit on his lap for a cuddle.

bumper234 · 11-07-2013 1:21pm

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Can they do that when it hasn't actually been passed yet?

Not sure i just heard it on 98 fm news.

TheChizler · 11-07-2013 1:22pm

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Can they do that when it hasn't actually been passed yet?

There was talk of recommending passing it straight from Higgins to the supreme court according to Shatter, as it most likely is going to be challenged anyway. Suppose it would be good to get it clarified from the start (20 years late start that is).

Bannasidhe · 11-07-2013 1:36pm

TheChizler wrote: »

There was talk of recommending passing it straight from Higgins to the supreme court according to Shatter, as it most likely is going to be challenged anyway. Suppose it would be good to get it clarified from the start (20 years late start that is).

My understanding of the procedure (open to correction) is that if Higgins refers it to the Council of State and they declare it is ok there can be no challenge to it, if he just signs it then it's constitutionality can be challenged.

Given that it seems to abide by the minimum required to conform to the X Referendum and the Supreme Court ruling I can't see how it's constitutionality can be successfully challenged.

bumper234 · 11-07-2013 1:38pm

Just seen this on indo twitter

#AbortionVote: Kenny to give abortion debate another two days http://indo.ie/mRrvc #Dail

:eek:

Bannasidhe · 11-07-2013 1:41pm

bumper234 wrote: »

Just seen this on indo twitter

#AbortionVote: Kenny to give abortion debate another two days http://indo.ie/mRrvc #Dail

:eek:

But in two days I will be on holiday in no internetland (aka rural Ireland) and I won't be able to keep up with the cut and thrust of the debate....

Hmmmmm....

:D:D.

Sarky · 11-07-2013 1:59pm

Jesus, the idiots delayed it again?

Bannasidhe · 11-07-2013 2:03pm

Sarky wrote: »

Jesus, the idiots delayed it again?

They want to give it as long a gestation period as possible to increase it's chances of survival.

aloyisious · 11-07-2013 2:03pm

Bannasidhe wrote: »

But in two days I will be on holiday in no internetland (aka rural Ireland) and I won't be able to keep up with the cut and thrust of the debate....

Hmmmmm....

:D:D.

Would you like to???????????? (glance's at "Gandalf" and the water-sprinklers)

maguic24 · 11-07-2013 2:29pm

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/independent-td-seeking-high-court-injunction-to-block-vote-on-abortion-bill-29412930.html

Excuse the ignorance, I haven't been keeping up with the debate, what with work and all and I am just wondering whether or not Mattie McGrath is prolife or prochoice??? By the sounds of the article above he seems prochoice but just wanted to double check as wording of the 2002 referendum on abortion was a bit iffy...

Sarky · 11-07-2013 2:31pm

Just caught up with Twitter and stuff because my home internets don't work.

Amazing to see Tom Barry sexually harassing a colleague during a debate on women's rights. Says it all about our political system, really.

maguic24 · 11-07-2013 2:37pm

Nevermind, I'm an idiot just read some of the previous comments!! >.<

Turtwig · 11-07-2013 2:46pm

Deirdre Conroy wrote:

My discovery that women don't actually own their womb began in January 2002. The moment I heard the words "incompatible with life", my own life changed. I remember walking out of the hospital thinking, 'This is what really, really bad news tastes like'.

The worst was yet to come. The silence, the grief.

The words "not in this jurisdiction" meant there would be no humane treatment. I would have to carry on as normal, taking care of my children, working and grieving. I was four-and-a-half months pregnant with one dead twin and one that wouldn't survive. The doctor said my options were to carry to term or go away. "Go away?" I asked, bewildered.

Full article here.

Turtwig · 11-07-2013 2:55pm

I like this one.:)

Source.

jank · 11-07-2013 3:15pm

You know when the bill is passed I think half of A&A are going to have withdrawal symptoms from this topic.

lazygal · 11-07-2013 3:18pm

jank wrote: »

You know when the bill is passed I think half of A&A are going to have withdrawal symptoms from this topic.

We're just getting started. There's fatal foetal abonormalities, rape, and finally, abortion for women who no longer wish to be pregnant, for whatever reason, all needing to be legislated for.

Sarky · 11-07-2013 3:20pm

Don't mind him, he was probably just trying for a cheap shot.

Just hearing from Newstalk that Mattie McGrath's legal challenge was thrown out already. So that's nice.

bumper234 · 11-07-2013 3:21pm

Sarky wrote: »

Don't mind him, he was probably just trying for a cheap shot.

Just hearing from Newstalk that Mattie McGrath's legal challenge was thrown out already. So that's nice.

Yeah only another 123 to go :mad:

Obliq · 11-07-2013 3:25pm

jank wrote: »

You know when the bill is passed I think half of A&A are going to have withdrawal symptoms from this topic.

Are you joking? :mad: I'll not shut-up on this topic till the 4,000+ women who have to unnecessarily travel for an abortion every year are treated with the health care, the dignity and the respect that they deserve in this country. I realise that probably means a lifetime of campaigning, but I'll do it for my son's, my niece and every woman in Ireland. Please don't throw out trite comments like that in the face of the ACTUAL struggle that we have here.

Corkfeen · 11-07-2013 3:25pm

jank wrote: »

You know when the bill is passed I think half of A&A are going to have withdrawal symptoms from this topic.

The bill that the government put forward was still highly inadequate and the abortion debate is far from over. I think there's around 1500 per year and they're deserted by the state. Catherine Murphy called for government to have referendum on it last night. Plus there's the cases of rape and incest.

I don't understand your need to be so cynical of this thread and its contributors.

jank · 11-07-2013 3:35pm

12 months ago most people were calling for the x-case to be legislated for, that is happening for right now. This is a stepping stone as you will. It is going to be years more before the Irish people want to go though this trite process again. Once this is done, it is going to pass out of the public sphere for a time.

IT-Guy · 11-07-2013 3:38pm

jank wrote: »

You know when the bill is passed I think half of A&A are going to have withdrawal symptoms from this topic.

Aaaaah, the exasperated outbursts of those knowing they're on the wrong side of morality and history...does go well with my coffee :P

Brian Shanahan · 11-07-2013 3:44pm

jank wrote: »

You know when the bill is passed I think half of A&A are going to have withdrawal symptoms from this topic.

When this bill passes, half of the YD membership will abort themselves from the shock. They are expecting Irish politicians never to grow a single vertebra between them, forgetting that they now constitute a tiny, if highly dangerous and violent, minority.

kylith · 11-07-2013 3:56pm

kylith wrote: »

It looks to me like it was during a break in proceedings. Are they supposed to remain serious for the entire time that they're in the building?

If it was done without her permission then it was certainly out of order, but for all we know she asked if she could sit on his lap for a cuddle.

Based on this article which contains this quote

“One deputy’s actions were unwelcome to another deputy.

I would like to retract my earlier statements and wholeheartedly agree that this incident was unacceptable, the man responsible an idiot, and I am another step closer to dying of embarrassment because the entire world is now watching our political process and those fecking gombeens are making a holy show of us.

bumper234 · 11-07-2013 3:58pm

kylith wrote: »

Based on this article which contains this quote

I would like to retract my earlier statements and wholeheartedly agree that this incident was unacceptable, the man responsible and idiot, and I am another step closer to dying of embarrassment because the entire world is now watching our political process and those fecking gombeens are making a holy show of us.

Scary part of it is that most of us just see it as another normal day in Ireland

kylith · 11-07-2013 4:03pm

bumper234 wrote: »

Scary part of it is that most of us just see it as another normal day in Ireland

There was also apparently a statement that 'none of them had been drinking to excess'. Would other countries allow politicians to drink when debating on legislation?

Bannasidhe · 11-07-2013 4:18pm

aloyisious wrote: »

Would you like to???????????? (glance's at "Gandalf" and the water-sprinklers)

Meh - I'm sure I'll notice the floodgates opening and the wash of dead babies gushing down the boreen when I pop to the shop in local village (of 2 garages, 2 shops and 49 pubs) for milk for the grandchilder*. I would send OH but she fractured her ankle so can't drive and is crap at noticing stuff anyway so the only info I'd be likely to get from her is that they have tayto chocolate in the shop.

Will our civilization also collapse or do we have to wait for same-sex marriage for that?

*won't bring grandchilder in case some pro-choicer decides to abort them now that it is about to become compulsory.

bumper234 · 11-07-2013 4:19pm

kylith wrote: »

There was also apparently a statement that 'none of them had been drinking to excess'. Would other countries allow politicians to drink when debating on legislation?

Un****ingbelievable and these are the same planks telling us not to be drinking and that the image of the oirish using any excuse to drink makes the country look bad! <Snip>

Manach · 11-07-2013 4:23pm

Whilst likely I'd be contra most other posters in this thread opinion wise, that the least certain politicians could do would have some measure of decorum during the debate, which the TDs (one a local one to me) seemed to lack in their horseplay.

bumper234 · 11-07-2013 4:25pm

Actually i retract my last statement. <snip>

aloyisious · 11-07-2013 4:25pm

Sarky wrote: »

Don't mind him, he was probably just trying for a cheap shot.

Just hearing from Newstalk that Mattie McGrath's legal challenge was thrown out already. So that's nice.

High Court rejects application to stop abortion legislation being passed

Irish Examiner.

Thursday, July 11, 2013 - 03:52 PM

High Court President Nicholas Kearns has rejected a last minute bid to stop the Oireachtas voting on abortion legislation.

The litigants, including former MEP Kathy Sinnott, have been told the matter is currently on the floor of Leinster House and the courts do not have any entitlement whatsoever to interfere at this stage.

The hearing lasted approximately five minutes.

Lay litigants Mark McCrystal and Jane Murphy from Dublin approached the bench and submitted papers asking High Court President for leave to stop the government usurping the will of the Irish people.

The group, which includes former MEP Kathy Sinnott, wants to stop the vote on abortion legislation and to remove provisions they say have already been rejected by the people of Ireland in the 2002 referendum.

President Kearns said he was satisfied he did not have the jurisdiction to grant any such relief as the matter was the preserve of the legislature. Under the doctrine of the separation of powers the courts have no authority to intervene at this stage, he said.

It is believed the group is now trying to urgently bring its application to the Supreme Court.

Edit. Mr McGrath said that he was making the move because the bill did not respect the verdict of the people in two abortion referendums..... DriveTime report's that Mattie want's to injunct the Dail debate itself. It's a pity, I'd like to see them work for the entire weekend :-)

Sarky · 11-07-2013 4:29pm

The supreme court? The one that ordered this legislation 21 years ago in the first place? Yeah, good luck with that. I hope they're not using public money for this time-wasting idiocy.

Corkfeen · 11-07-2013 4:32pm

jank wrote: »

12 months ago most people were calling for the x-case to be legislated for, that is happening for right now. This is a stepping stone as you will. It is going to be years more before the Irish people want to go though this trite process again. Once this is done, it is going to pass out of the public sphere for a time.

Most of the Irish public are supportive of legislating for rape and incest victims plus those with fatal foetal abnormalities. It would be foolish fit the government bit to sort it.

kylith · 11-07-2013 4:45pm

aloyisious wrote: »

High Court rejects application to stop abortion legislation being passed

Irish Examiner.

Thursday, July 11, 2013 - 03:52 PM

High Court President Nicholas Kearns has rejected a last minute bid to stop the Oireachtas voting on abortion legislation.

Lay litigants Mark McCrystal and Jane Murphy from Dublin approached the bench and submitted papers asking High Court President for leave to stop the government usurping the will of the Irish people.

how exactly are they " usurping the will of the Irish people"? We've been telling them to legislate for twenty frigging years!

Doctor Strange · 11-07-2013 4:52pm

kylith wrote: »

how exactly are they " usurping the will of the Irish people"? We've been telling them to legislate for twenty frigging years!

Ah but don't forget about the 1,000,000 good honest catlicks marching the other day for de baaaayyyyyybeeeesss. Their will counts for more than us wife-swapping sodomite, baby eating atheists.

aloyisious · 11-07-2013 4:56pm

kylith wrote: »

how exactly are they " usurping the will of the Irish people"? We've been telling them to legislate for twenty frigging years!

Apparently part of the HC case brought said the Bill included two parts that we, the Irish People, had decided on by constitutional referendum. Mattie claimed the legislature, via the bill, was trying to overturn two referendum results. One part referred to the 1861 abortion act, which Mattie claimed was decided on by referendum. I don't know yet what the other part is.

kylith · 11-07-2013 4:56pm

What can we do about them? What can we do about the jokers who are the ruination of us all? Can we not complain to their mammies about them acting the maggot? That's probably the only person they'll listen to.

aloyisious · 11-07-2013 5:02pm

kylith wrote: »

What can we do about them? What can we do about the jokers who are the ruination of us all? Can we not complain to their mammies about them acting the maggot? That's probably the only person they'll listen to.

Sneak in and cut the mic-cables, that'd cause (silenced) uproar. I can just imagine all the red-faces and tears.

Nice idea about the mammy: imagine's kitchen scene - "Listen you, it's early to bed for you now after a good skelping, where's the dog-lead?"

jank · 11-07-2013 5:12pm

IT-Guy wrote: »

Aaaaah, the exasperated outbursts of those knowing they're on the wrong side of morality and history...does go well with my coffee :P

Everyone think they are doing the right thing morally

by the way I am more open minded on abortion than you want to think, now where are my horns and crucifix... I have a YD protest to attend! :rolleyes:

Pherekydes · 11-07-2013 5:17pm

kylith wrote: »

how exactly are they " usurping the will of the Irish people"? We've been telling them to legislate for twenty frigging years!

The irony of it all. By going to the HC they are presuming to speak for the Irish people, thereby usurping the will of the Irish people.

kylith wrote: »

What can we do about them? What can we do about the jokers who are the ruination of us all? Can we not complain to their mammies about them acting the maggot? That's probably the only person they'll listen to.

Eh, no. Tell the PP on them. He'll tell them off and they won't do it again.

The Black Oil · 11-07-2013 6:06pm

Pretty ballsy woman in Texas.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvuNSr3CaGo

Abortion Discussion

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