Why does ireland have one of the highest suicide rates?

nadey · 26-11-2014 5:42pm #1

I blame it on joan burton!!
Seriously though, something has to be done about this massive problem

Ive had a niece, aunt, uncle and 2 cousin do this and its affected a large percentage of irish families
What can be done about this epidemic

uch · 26-11-2014 5:43pm

Sinn Fein's Fault I'd say, everything else is.

deadybai · 26-11-2014 5:46pm

Because we are a backwards country in a modern world. Depression is still frowned upon in Ireland. Especially in rural villages and towns. 3 young men that I went to school with (all from the same area) committed suicide since we left school 3 years ago. There was also a few when I was in school. Its appauling that only in the last year or so that we are waking up to this.
If you are any way different, your fecked. If you dont fit in to Irish society your fecked.

Uncle Ruckus · 26-11-2014 5:47pm

I used to have a fair few conversations about our high depression/suicide rate with my friends during our college years. We proposed stuff like Catholic sexual guilt trips and the ****ty weather. I don't think the Catholic repression thing is an issue anymore so maybe it's the weather and the drink culture. We tend to use booze as a coping mechanism...

BoJack Horseman · 26-11-2014 5:47pm

- Unwillingness to face up to chronic levels of substance & alcohol use & the associated mental toll it takes on people.

- desperate jealousy of Gerry Adams glistening new teeth.

nadey · 26-11-2014 5:48pm

deadybai wrote: »

Because we are a backwards country in a modern world

I blame it on the catholic guilt tbh

Mesrine65 · 26-11-2014 5:51pm

May have a lot to do with the abysmal mental health services in this country.

nadey · 26-11-2014 5:51pm

Uncle Ruckus wrote: »

I used to have a fair few conversations about our high depression/suicide rate with my friends during our college years. We proposed stuff like Catholic sexual guilt trips and the ****ty weather. I don't think the Catholic repression thing is an issue anymore so maybe it's the weather and the drink culture. We tend to use booze as a coping mechanism...

You beat me to it about the catholic shame bit! I defo think booze ****s many a young fella and girl up

Fuhrer · 26-11-2014 5:52pm

It seems below average to me

Ruu · 26-11-2014 5:52pm

Being afraid to talk about it from a young age. Lack of mental health support and facilities.

nadey · 26-11-2014 5:54pm

deadybai wrote: »

Because we are a backwards country in a modern world. Depression is still frowned upon in Ireland. Especially in rural villages and towns. 3 young men that I went to school with (all from the same area) committed suicide since we left school 3 years ago. There was also a few when I was in school. Its appauling that only in the last year or so that we are waking up to this.
If you are any way different, your fecked. If you dont fit in to Irish society your fecked.

True, depression and anxiety is as much an illness as cancer. You mighnt die, but theres a good chance of ya doing it at your own hands

26-11-2014 5:55pm

because of irish water, obviously!!!

kidding but id say if you look it up there's some psychological or Freudian
explanation that tells us Ireland or life on Islands, can contribute greatly etc etc, ad nauseum....

26-11-2014 5:57pm

but to quote my names sake

think human consciousness, is a tragic misstep in evolution. We became too self-aware, nature created an aspect of nature separate from itself, we are creatures that should not exist by natural law. We are things that labor under the illusion of having a self; an accretion of sensory, experience and feeling, programmed with total assurance that we are each somebody, when in fact everybody is nobody. Maybe the honorable thing for our species to do is deny our programming, stop reproducing, walk hand in hand into extinction, one last midnight - brothers and sisters opting out of a raw deal."

Fuhrer · 26-11-2014 5:58pm

nadey wrote: »

True, depression and anxiety is as much an illness as cancer.

Its not.

Fratton Fred · 26-11-2014 5:58pm

I think there's an element of copycat suicides as well. Because so many people are affected personally, they start to see it as a way out, whereas they may not have considered it otherwise.

It is heartbreaking when you read some of the stories.

nadey · 26-11-2014 6:01pm

Fuhrer wrote: »

Its not.

Have you had cancer of have clinical untreatable depression?

humberklog · 26-11-2014 6:05pm

We're 47th in the world, quite a way from having one of the highest rates in the world. That's not to belittle the effect of suicide however it does have me scratching my head as to why people think Ireland has one of the highest and continue to say it.

ardmacha · 26-11-2014 6:06pm

Typical After Hours Bollix
Ireland does not have "one of the highest" suicide rates, it is lower than the UK, Canada, Sweden, France, Belgium etc
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate

to the extent that it is high at all has as much to do with the age profile as anything else.

Fuhrer · 26-11-2014 6:07pm

nadey wrote: »

Have you had cancer of have clinical untreatable depression?

Oh ok, thats how it works.

Only people who have had cancer and depression can confirm or deny your statement.

Out ****ing standing

nadey · 26-11-2014 6:08pm

humberklog wrote: »

We're 47th in the world, quite a way from having one of the highest rates in the world. That's not to belittle the effect of suicide however it does have me scratching my head as to why people think Ireland has one of the highest and continue to say it.

So its not a problem, ok, just hope it never happens to one of your loved ones

sozbox · 26-11-2014 6:10pm

humberklog wrote: »

We're 47th in the world, quite a way from having one of the highest rates in the world. That's not to belittle the effect of suicide however it does have me scratching my head as to why people think Ireland has one of the highest and continue to say it.

Part of the usual 'Everything in Ireland is ****e/worst etc while everything is great everywhere else' narrative that seems to be prevalent in some quarters.

One suicide is one too many but a reality check would go a long way to an informed discussion.

mirrorwall14 · 26-11-2014 6:10pm

ardmacha wrote: »

Typical After Hours Bollix
Ireland does not have "one of the highest" suicide rates, it is lower than the UK, Canada, Sweden, France, Belgium etc
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate

to the extent that it is high at all has as much to do with the age profile as anything else.

I could be wrong but isn't that partly due to Incorrect records? Like recording it as a road traffic accident when the world and his mother knows that they drove into a tree deliberately? Could be wrong tho, just heard that said

Eramen · 26-11-2014 6:10pm

deadybai wrote: »

Because we are a backwards country in a modern world. Depression is still frowned upon in Ireland. Especially in rural villages and towns. 3 young men that I went to school with (all from the same area) committed suicide since we left school 3 years ago. There was also a few when I was in school. Its appauling that only in the last year or so that we are waking up to this.
If you are any way different, your fecked. If you dont fit in to Irish society your fecked.

You obviously aren't well traveled then?

mikemac1 · 26-11-2014 6:11pm

nadey wrote: »

So its not a problem, ok, just hope it never happens to one of your loved ones

That wasn't the poster's point. You are not being fair at all

The OP asked why does Ireland have one of the highest rates and got a reply.

edit, you are the OP!

RDM_83 again · 26-11-2014 6:12pm

nadey wrote: »

I blame it on the catholic guilt tbh

Popular idea which makes little sense, influence of the CC is actually inversely proportional to suicide (obviously way more complex than that with misrecording of cause of death etc too )

Its also not as high as some other countries its still devastating for some demographics.
Personally I think its to do with some of these thing.

1)Poor health service, also the Parish Priest used to be instrumental in getting people into state care (sectioned but thats UK term) this role hasn't been taken over to the same extent by HSE workers
2)Poor climate lack of exercise
3)Poor relationship with alcohol
4)A lot of pressure to succeed and find your place in the world is placed on young men, perhaps an increase of these pressures on young woman is why their rate is rising.

Most importantly its lack of treating the problem as seriously as it deserves, its the biggest cause of death young (ish) men and the lack of funds directed to this is disgraceful. We should not simply be intervening in terms of mental health we should be actioning suicide hot spots directly the way Foyle Search and Rescue have done with significant success. (posted about how Galway needed a service like this after seeing the helicopter multiple times out over the river , couple of months later good friend dead in the same spot)

humberklog · 26-11-2014 6:13pm

nadey wrote: »

So its not a problem, ok, just hope it never happens to one of your loved ones

That's not what I said. I'm simply pointing out that your thread title states something that is not correct.

47th does not make us one of the highest.

sheesh · 26-11-2014 6:14pm

I think it has to do with crap mental health services
Drink
the fact that it is such a small, low population density country that everywhere you go someone you know or at least knows you will turn up.

actually according to wikipaedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate

we are quiet good

sheesh · 26-11-2014 6:17pm

nadey wrote: »

I blame it on joan burton!!
Seriously though, something has to be done about this massive problem

Ive had a niece, aunt, uncle and 2 cousin do this and its affected a large percentage of irish families
What can be done about this epidemic

can you give us a source showing that it does have a really high suicide rate.

nadey · 26-11-2014 6:23pm

sheesh wrote: »

can you give us a source showing that it does have a really high suicide rate.

Father pat said so

cat_dog · 26-11-2014 6:37pm

Lack of sunshine, dreary cold weather, alcohol dependency, lack of understanding about mental illness / stigma, crap mental health support (unless youre very rich)

the_syco · 26-11-2014 6:42pm

Reasons;

Not too long ago (and still by some people) depression is viewed as being sad. Think happy thoughts, and you'll be cured. Unfortunately, this doesn't work, and most people who cannot get help don't want to burden anyone, thus commit suicide.

Instead of calling it suicide down the country, single car crashes into trees and walls after veering off a straight road whilst going at 9000km/h on a dry road in the middle of a day, they call it accidents, totally brushing under the carpet any problem that has happened in the past 40 years. Thus the poor f**ks get nothing in the way of suicide prevention education, and everyone is told to smile and all will be okay.

Blame the catholic church, if you wish.

Oh, and the "big boys don't cry" crap, where men that cry are seen as weak, any emotion, and you are weak, means that when something hits the fan, some people can't cope, and play chicken with trains, tall mountains, or bear traps. It's not so bad now, but 20 odd years ago, you had to be hard as nails, or be seen as a wimp.

Fuhrer · 26-11-2014 6:44pm

Eramen wrote: »

No doubt the usual suspects will blame the RCC/DeValera/other conspiracy theory but the reality is more complex.

We have a rabid aversion to frankness and sincerity as a people. Any expression of core our feelings; of grievances, hopes, dreams, regrets, insights, is usually met with a wall of apprehension or insensitivity from others. In the main these feelings are not something that is talked about openly. This also extends to discussion of any serious topics which are central and important to our own life - they are simply met with blank stares, or worse ends up in slagging in order to stifle one's genuine concerns. All this can be attributed to how people are raised.

"Men - men are weak" - Lord Elrond of Rivendel.

This statement is truer than we may first think. Irish fathers/men have failed. Certainly not all of them, but a significant proportion. The lack of maturity and the gross insecurity that manifests when matters of heartfelt or serious discussion arise is due to a failure in the masculine principle in society.

Forthrightness, integrity, positive willpower, strength in the face of adversary, right action - are all learned in the main from the father who emanates such values. Too many Irish men are more interested in drinking, sport, the pub and general vice than in raising their children. The father has knowledge of the world - yet selfishly refuses to pass on his experiences and learning to his children. This leads to an inversion of values, people then operate in reverse and get caught up in unproductive mental cycles.

This is why people can't talk or open up, without drink, that is. Drink has thus become a therapeutic, and the drinking problem stems partly, though not wholly from this. Individuals have simply are too insecure, microcosmic examples of what has gone wrong in the national family situation. And I'd like to point out that this has nothing to do with 'traditionalism' or the like, traditional societies tend to be socially harmonious. One can equally blame the sub-cultural (one's adopted family) scene of the modern world for many of the associated ills above.

But again, we dont have a high rate of Suicide. At least not comparatively.

nadey · 26-11-2014 6:45pm

Eramen wrote: »

No doubt the usual suspects will blame the RCC/DeValera/other conspiracy theory but the reality is more complex.

We have a rabid aversion to frankness and sincerity as a people. Any expression of core our feelings; of grievances, hopes, dreams, regrets, insights, is usually met with a wall of apprehension or insensitivity from others. In the main these feelings are not something that is talked about openly. This also extends to discussion of any serious topics which are central and important to our own life - they are simply met with blank stares, or worse ends up in slagging in order to stifle one's genuine concerns. All this can be attributed to how people are raised.

"Men - men are weak" - Lord Elrond of Rivendel.

This statement is truer than we may first think. Irish fathers/men have failed. Certainly not all of them, but a significant proportion. The lack of maturity and the gross insecurity that manifests when matters of heartfelt or serious discussion arise is due to a failure in the masculine principle in society.

Forthrightness, integrity, positive willpower, strength in the face of adversary, right action - are all learned in the main from the father who emanates such values. Too many Irish men are more interested in drinking, sport, the pub and general vice than in raising their children. The father has knowledge of the world - yet selfishly refuses to pass on his experiences and learning to his children. This leads to an inversion of values, people then operate in reverse and get caught up in unproductive mental cycles.

This is why people can't talk or open up, without drink, that is. They simply are too insecure, a microcosmic example of what has gone wrong in the national family situation. And I'd like to point out that this has nothing to do with 'traditionalism' or the like, traditional societies tend to be socially harmonious. One can equally blame the sub-cultural (one's adopted family) scene of the modern world for many of the associated ills above.

I definitely relate to the bit about irish fatheres. Mine and alot of my friends fathers were cold and distant. I think that lack of a father figure screwed a lot of us irish up

26-11-2014 6:45pm

Recording of suicides understates our rate, how much that applies to other countries is something I don't know.
We're probably around average for developed nations.

mikemac1 · 26-11-2014 6:46pm

I expect ignorance from TD's. I would expect a GP to know better

Would you go to your GP to discuss issues if you think they are like Dr Jim McDaid from Donegal who'll consider you or someone you know a "selfish bastard" ?linky

Drunk driving down the wrong side of a dual carriageway however :rolleyes:

Eramen · 26-11-2014 6:47pm

nadey wrote: »

I definitely relate to the bit about irish fatheres. Mine and alot of my friends fathers were cold and distant. I think that lack of a father figure screwed a lot of us irish up

Irish men and teenagers have some of highest suicide rates in Europe. Two people kill themselves everyday. That's too many for such a small nation.

Also see syco's post above.

con___manx1 · 26-11-2014 6:50pm

A guy in my town killed himself recently.he bought his coffin and paid for the bar after his funeral

strobe · 26-11-2014 7:03pm

Well we don't have one of the highest suicide rates, not by quite a way, as people have pointed out. But we should ideally of course be aiming for the lowest rate.

I'm sure there's a lot of factors involved in suicide, as people have mentioned, but one not mentioned that I certainly don't think helps matters is the rapid (mis)diagnoses of depression and (over)prescription of anti-depressants tbh. I'm not some anti-medication nut or something, far from it, I believe anti-depressants save lives in many instances. But surely to Christ there has to be something wrong with General Practitioners diagnosing people with depression after a one off 15-30 minute chat and then prescribing up to six months of medication at a time, many of which can have side effects that are very detrimental to over-all quality of life (sexual dysfunction, sleep issues, suicidal ideation, etc) and can be very difficult to cease the use of?

I also don't think the insistence of some of those with depression to others that depression "is something that can never be beaten and will be with you all your life" is very helpful at all and physically wince when I see it trotted out on here and else where. A load of bollox if ever I heard it and a very dangerous thing to be saying to people that may be struggling to hang in there.

AboutaWeekAgo · 26-11-2014 7:16pm

Just this year I could name 7 or 8 people in my town who have committed sucide all under the age of 30. If I was to count back from when I started secondary school years ago the number would be well in the double digits. Seems weird that so many would happen in the same town

I'd put a lot of it down to drink and the fact there are little to no jobs here anymore. It's a case of leave or stay and end up drinking your days away, which I bet is the case for a lot of small/medium size towns around the country.

RDM_83 again · 26-11-2014 7:17pm

the_syco wrote: »

Reasons;

Not too long ago (and still by some people) depression is viewed as being sad. Think happy thoughts, and you'll be cured. Unfortunately, this doesn't work, and most people who cannot get help don't want to burden anyone, thus commit suicide.

Blame the catholic church, if you wish.

Oh, and the "big boys don't cry" crap, where men that cry are seen as weak, any emotion, and you are weak, means that when something hits the fan, some people can't cope, and play chicken with trains, tall mountains, or bear traps. It's not so bad now, but 20 odd years ago, you had to be hard as nails, or be seen as a wimp.

But we had a far far lower suicide rate when all the things that you consider the cause were far more prevalent

Capt'n Midnight · 26-11-2014 7:17pm

Crocodile Dundee

Sue Charlton: I suppose you don't have any shrinks at Walkabout Creek.

Michael J. "Crocodile" Dundee: No back there if you got a problem you tell Wally. And he tells everyone in town, brings it out in the open, no more problem.

nadey · 26-11-2014 7:22pm

strobe wrote: »

Well we don't have one of the highest suicide rates, not by quite a way, as people have pointed out. But we should ideally of course be aiming for the lowest rate.

I'm sure there's a lot of factors involved in suicide, as people have mentioned, but one not mentioned that I certainly don't think helps matters is the rapid (mis)diagnoses of depression and (over)prescription of anti-depressants tbh. I'm not some anti-medication nut or something, far from it, I believe anti-depressants save lives in many instances. But surely to Christ there has to be something wrong with General Practitioners diagnosing people with depression after a one off 15-30 minute chat and then prescribing up to six months of medication at a time, many of which can have side effects that are very detrimental to over-all quality of life (sexual dysfunction, sleep issues, suicidal ideation, etc) and can be very difficult to cease the use of?

I also don't think the insistence of some of those with depression to others that depression "is something that can never be beaten and will be with you all your life" is very helpful at all and physically wince when I see it trotted out on here and else where. A load of bollox if ever I heard it and a very dangerous thing to be saying to people that may be struggling to hang in there.

I agree with everything you said apart from the last paragraph, unless you have clinical depression you cant really comment. Ive had it 25 years with no real re.lief, I just had to learn to deal with it. Its tough but it can be done

In Lonesome Dove · 26-11-2014 7:25pm

Recession has brought many problems and challenges to the doorstep of many people. Maybe for some people suicide is a way out of problems - work problems, money problems, family problems. I wouldn't go about blaming depression for all suicides.

nadey · 26-11-2014 7:26pm

AboutaWeekAgo wrote: »

Just this year I could name 7 or 8 people in my town who have committed sucide all under the age of 30. If I was to count back from when I started secondary school years ago the number would be well in the double digits. Seems weird that so many would happen in the same town

I'd put a lot of it down to drink and the fact there are little to no jobs here anymore. It's a case of leave or stay and end up drinking your days away, which I bet is the case for a lot of small/medium size towns around the country.

From your post I assume your from a small town and thats a hell of a lot of young fellas to commit suicide

And some posters say its not a problem, get real guys.

strobe · 26-11-2014 7:27pm

nadey wrote: »

I agree with everything you said apart from the last paragraph, unless you have clinical depression you cant really comment. Ive had it 25 years with no real re.lief, I just had to learn to deal with it. Its tough but it can be done

Who says I haven't had? But that's beside the point anyway. Being clinically depressed makes someone an expert on nothing but their own personal experience (if even that).

Saipanne · 26-11-2014 7:29pm

Our culture of alcohol consumption

KomradeBishop · 26-11-2014 7:35pm

Agree with many of the points raised - and to add a couple of unmentioned ones:
Poor prospects for many people (high unemployment, that will probably last decades), bad work/life balance for many in work (again partly due to the countries economic situation).

There's a lot, triggered by the economic crisis, that adds to this problem (also plays a big part, in preventing funding for proper mental health services).

Wompa1 · 26-11-2014 7:35pm

nadey wrote: »

I agree with everything you said apart from the last paragraph, unless you have clinical depression you cant really comment.

Actually anybody can comment about it, it's an open forum on the most popular section of one of the most visited websites in Ireland.

Not sure why you are getting defensive...

nadey · 26-11-2014 7:40pm

Wompa1 wrote: »

Actually anybody can comment about it, it's an open forum on the most popular section of one of the most visited websites in Ireland.

Not sure why you are getting defensive...

Because you obviously dont have a clue what clinical depression and GAD is like to cope with every single day

Dont be so dense

Laura Palmer · 26-11-2014 7:55pm

Thought catholic guilt led to sexual hang-ups - now people saying it leads to suicide. Which is it?!
The stuff about Ireland being backward as a country - as well as being untrue, is unhelpful. Like that's going to provide hope to people who are suicidal.

nadey wrote: »

And some posters say its not a problem

Nobody said it's not a problem.

deadybai wrote: »

Depression is still frowned upon in Ireland. Especially in rural villages and towns. 3 young men that I went to school with (all from the same area) committed suicide since we left school 3 years ago. There was also a few when I was in school. Its appauling that only in the last year or so that we are waking up to this.

The last year or so?

I was diagnosed in 1996. Got fantastic help...

Donkey Oaty · 26-11-2014 8:09pm

cat_dog wrote: »

Lack of sunshine

I don't think we can blame it on that, nor can we blame it on lunar cycles (giving us the politically incorrect "lunatic"), or even the affluenza created by the Celtic Tiger.

However, the closure of rural pubs, especially the dance nights, might have some part to play in all of this.

Why does ireland have one of the highest suicide rates?

Comments