Episode 5x10: 'Mother's Mercy' - READERS thread

Damn it, have to wait another year now!

No, Stannis is dead- D&D say so in the behind the scenes clip.
Possible Jon Snow Parentage spoiler:
Season six will be an interesting one!

The battle scene was a let down... Dont know why they felt the need to be so vague with Stannis' death (or lack thereof)
Sansa and Theon escaping... Liked it.
Arya killing Trant... Brutal and easily the best scene of the episode.
The Cersi walk of shame was so far drawn out it was boring. Oh yay! Boobies... Sure I could have fapped twice and still had a smoke.
The Mereen scene were very confusing.... They were ok, not great.
The Dorne scenes were.... Well they were there.
The Jon Snow part was very bittersweet for me. My favourite character in books and second favourite in TV show... I was really hoping for a hint over if he is definitely dead or not.

A very up and down episode altogether but I am looking forward to Winds of Winter or Season 6... Whichever comes first... Heart says book, head says tv show.

Awful, awful episode and end to the season in general. It's very annoying as about halfway through I was at the point of not caring about the changes and just appreciating the good scenes when they happened. This was awful tripe from the start.

First, Stannis being abandoned, betrayed, wife dead, Mel hits the road. So why on earth was Shireen burned? Makes zero sense to drag a fan favourite through the mud like that, though he might be back in some shape or form at some point he is tarnished in most people's eyes. If he died a bit closer to Jon in time it'd have made it a bit more interesting about the resurrection theories. The battle of Ice was just a slaughter, Ramsey in battle with no armour again, snow melting in the north in winter!? Pure bull from start to finish. My hand was hovering over the x on my laptop but I convinced myself to keep going as I've put so much time into the show I might as well see it out. I was finished 3 books before I watched the show and I kind of wish I hadn't started but too late now I guess.

Then onto Jon and Sam. Sam admitting to the Lord Commander of the NW that he'd broken his vows and the LC just laughs. Then Jon is the one who wants Sam to stay rather than the other way around, lets him leave with his girlfriend on a cart to god knows where considering Sam is an awful fighter and has to travel through the 2 roughest places in all of Westeros and an untold amount of miles to get to Oldtown that way. Ridiculous stuff. I guess the 4 year old kid that's still a baby for some reason could get a sudden growth spurt and be a great warrior but I'd doubt it.

Brienne and Sansa then. Sansa uses a corkscrew to get out of the door, doesn't cover her face but still nobody recognises her. Brienne looks away right before the candle is lit in an almost comedic way. Myranda tells Sansa the information that she should have been using all along with the Boltons needing her but her and Theon instead do a snow jump that I feel is outrageously higher than in the books and would cause instant death. Presumably she's just going to bump into Brienne in the woods which will be even more ridiculous considering it's probably miles to the next town. Though they might go to the mill that theon killed the boys in I guess or something. Still very nonsensical imo.

Arya, not the worst scenes this week but still not really great. The multi-layered mask thing just looked strange and seemed like a cheap way of swerving people. Trant being portrayed as literally the worst piece of **** in the entire series in just one scene(2 I guess if you include last week) also felt a bit cheap to me but he got his gruesome death I guess.

I wasn't too much on the Dorne hate brigade but definitely am after this week. Hammy acting and now they have Trystane on a ship with Bronn and Jaime Lannister and have just presumably killed Myrcella. What in god's name did they think they were going to achieve? Just handing the heir of Dorne a death sentence. Yeah, really smart. Doran just allowing Ellaria and the Sand Snakes the freedom of Dorne after all that went down is hilariously stupid. The "I always knew" moment with Jaime and Myrcella was very clichéd but as a Jaime fan I didn't really mind that, but then Myrcella has a pointless cheap death. Ellaria and the Sand Snakes seem to have developed some cure all antidote too which I'm sure would be a good money maker around Westeros.

Then Meereen. The sulky boyband crew and their manager was actually ok. Tyrion was in good ball busting mood as usual. Jorah and Daario going off alone is a bit silly considering Daario still has a lot of sellswords on his team presumably and Jorah and Tyrion have only recently found how dangerous it is to travel Essos as a duo. Bit of a WTF moment with Varys showing up in Meereen as it means that despite the fact they've pushed ahead with a lot of storylines we're still going to be lagging in Meereen with a throwback season 2 dynamic for a good portion of next season. Didn't really care for Dany's one way interaction with Charizard...I mean Drogon. Just seemed a bit silly and she just walks off and predictably gets picked up by the fastest moving Khalasar in Essos. Was the ring one that Drogo gave her or what was the relevance? Not much else to talk about going on there.

The saving grace somewhat was the walk of shame. Brilliantly acted by Lena Headey and raw as hell! No punches were pulled in the treatment of it though I wouldn't have minded Robbie Strong cutting a few people in half who were getting too close to Cersei. I got a laugh out of Pycelle's creepiness though. Seems the Tyrells and Littlefinger have gone the Greyjoy, Gendry, Brotherhood, Tully, Frey etc. route and disappeared too until they're needed again.

The Ides of Marsh minus Marsh scene left us in no doubt about Jon's fate I feel unlike the small bit of doubt that we still have in the books and Mel just conveniently showing up a couple of hours before makes what has to happen quite clear. Just on her, she really didn't act like Melisandre at all in this episode though I guess it's fairly endemic for the show in general. Anyway, as far as the scene went it was what it was I guess. Well enough acted and every stab seemed to have a good bit of emotion behind it. For the amount of time spent at the Wall though the lack of developed characters is really apparent. They built Alliser Thorne in the show as someone very respectful of the ways of the Watch even if he dislikes Jon and then have him turn around and kill the LC. I'm not sure about the internal workings of the Watch and how it's been handled in the show but as I said it is what it is.

TLDR: very confusing in general, walk of shame good, everything else pretty bad. Basically at fan fiction level at this point. I know why GRRM wouldn't trust anyone else with the books if he died now

Awful episode, pacing and structure non-existent.

At last Stannis is still alive.

I don't really care what happens in the show now, they've kind of butchered everything that still has me gripped in the books, or at least made those storylines way less interesting than they are on the page.

Where are the Tully's, the Greyjoys, Nymeria, Stoneheart, Manderley, Freys, Brotherhood without Banners etc etc.

I enjoyed it. Not greatly but that's been consistent with a fairly poor season.

*Stannis and his army dead. Bit of an anti-climax and I can't see how Ramsey wouldn't be the one to kill Stannis.

*Sansa: How many times does she need to get rescued by a man. She's learning to play the game of thrones is she?

*Meeren: I like Tyrion as much as the next but a bit of action might have helped. It all seemed very subdued. They could have shown them releasing the dragons or the Harpies trying to kill them and failing.

*Walk of Shame: I enjoyed it. At the start I thought Cersei was like "this is fine" but then.

*Dorne: No idea what's happening here. The weakest part of the season

*For the Watch: Perfectly fine. I was trolled about the Benjen speak. Could have done with hearing Ghost howl though.

Overall probably the weakest Season so far. Only Hardhome really got into excellent territory.

Daith wrote: »

*For the Watch: Perfectly fine. I was trolled about the Benjen speak. Could have done with hearing Ghost howl though.

Ghost has had an odd treatment on the TV show. They should have showed him locked up and going mad, or at least howling as you suggest. The direwolves were so significant in earlier seasons, only job this season was deus ex machina rescue of Samwell.

I was also disappointed with Grey Wind's death on the show.

Tigger wrote: »

That was a body double with a cgi face btw

I did think it looked strange, probably a lot to do with the tattoo cover up but still a bit pointless.

Jon Snow body Stannis soul. Calling it now.

• Stannis: So what has your Lord of Light given me for burning my daughter to death.
• Melisandre: Well, naturally, the non-nutjobs didn't take well to the immolation so they're gone. Your wife, who in fact, was a nutjob didn't take it well either, so she's dead.
• Stannis: Did nobody see this happening? Does nobody serving me have any capacity to prevent this sort of crap?
• Melisandre: Davos is the only person in your camp besides me who has a name, and he's not here... so... no. But, on the plus side the storm is over.
• Stannis: Normally I would welcome storms when we are in no position to give battle as it would screen us from the enemy as we make our retreat. But since I'm not going to do that, it's all good.
• Melisandre: We could just go elsewhere you know.
• Stannis: What on earth are you talking about woman? We are a hundred leagues from anywhere, except Winterfell, which is just over that hill, apparently.
• Melisandre: Well not really... *woosh*
  [a horse appears]
  I can get back to the Night's Watch in less than a day.
• Stannis: And why would you do that?
• Melisandre: Errors were made. 404 protagonist not found.
• Stannis: What? After 3 seasons of buildup I won't let you just leave! My men will stop you!
• Melisandre: We already have had this conversation about your men. Laters
• [exit Mel stage right]
• Stannis: If war has taught me anything it is that the best course of action now is to lay siege to a an army twice my size.
• [exit Stannis stage left]

***************

• Littlefinger: Everything is going to plan Ser Prize
• Ser Prize: Why are you telling me this?
• Littlefinger: Varys isn't here. Usually I say this sort of thing in the throne room in King's Landing, but whatever. Anyhow, I have Sansa in just the position for her to exact her revenge.
• Ser Prize: How so?
• Littlefinger: I have read all the spoilers. Even for the material that isn't written yet. I looked into the flames and saw that a Stark ~would be taught to fly~... and that this is a significant development.. one which will guarantee victory for the Starks. And lo... Theon seems to be doing his part in ensuring Sansa obtains this education.
• Ser Prize: But the Stark being referenced in Dance of Dragons was Bran.. wasn't it? Sansa was meant to be a political weapon, not a sex slave, wasn't she? That fall is more likely to kill her than anything? And with Stannis out of the way, and there being no storm to provide shelter, how on Earth will she be rescued?
• Littlefinger: Okay, that's it! Out the moondoor with you!
• Ser Prize: No! I've only just been introduced! I've only just been introduuuuuuu

***************

• Qyburn: My Queen, the new King's guard. It is... Ser Gregor!
• Cersei:: No this can't be!
• Qyburn: I know... he has changed. Altered irreparably...
• Cersei::No, that's not it at all, in fact he is the same!
• Qyburn: The same, my Queen?
• Cersei:: This man has changed three times that I have known him. Entirely. Unrecognisable. Yet, somehow, when you... turned him into a walking corpse... he manages to be the same 26 year old Icelandic strongman as before.

***************

• Ellaria: And now the Martells have been avenged.
• Obara: We have received the body of The Mountain?
• Ellaria: No! Oberyn's justice has been observed.
• Obara: That little girls would not be harmed in Dorne?
• Ellaria: No.. no... that we would gain superiority over the Lannisters!
• Obara: I don't think Oberyn actually said that. He talked about The Mountain a lot. And Tywin. Hell, didn't he die fighting on behalf of a Lannister?
• Ellaria: Anyway, I have done it, I have killed Myrcella
• Obara: You mean the crown prince's wife-to-be?
• Ellaria: Yes!
• Obara: The only political pawn by which Dorne could secure the Iron Throne?
• Ellaria: The one and only!
• Obara: The girl who was on the ship with the crown prince.
• Ellaria: Yes, yes.
• Obara: They have the crown prince hostage now, don't they?
• Ellaria: I suppose so.
• Obara: Will they suspect you of the murder? Or us?
• Ellaria: I don't see why they would. All in all, the perfect crime I think.
• Obara: Is that the ship, coming back? Yeah. It's the ship.

<credit music:"They're taking Daenerys to Isengaard Isengaard g-g-gard">

I enjoyed that episode, it didn't feel like a season finale and in a way another 30 mins would have just ironed out some creases but as an episode I found it exciting and extremely tragic.

One of the biggest character transition was Melisandre, she awakens to see the ice melting and we see a face of relieved pleasure. Her murder of Shireen is justified (which I believe now she may have hid some doubts about) had paid off (at that moment). Then come the hard facts, horses gone and half the troops abandoned the camp. This is the face of a poker player that has gone all in and lost everything. In the end she knows all is lost and saves herself. Davos mentioning of Shireen pains her, she feels guilt. This sudden change almost evokes pity to a religious nut who releases they were wrong.

Stannis chooses to fight sword in hand knowing that he his lost, he his Iron, he'll break before he bends. His final moments he is fittingly punished for the shameful act (which he acknowledges) of murdering his brother with magic. Not for being a traitor or a rebel but for being a kinslayer and using sorcery. There's a moment of respect between him and Brienne that I liked. Two of the most honour bound rigid characters finally meeting. I can understand people protesting that Stannis was an excellent military commander but so was Napoleon and Hitler and they were undone when attacking a large land mass in weather conditions their armies weren't used to. One criticism would be the ridiculous size of the Bolton host, it was a bit over indulgent by the TV show.

I'm gona say it, I enjoyed the Dorne scene this week. Little bit of comedy for Bronn and what was a really beautiful yet awkward father and daughter scene before her death. Mrycella is every bit as naive and innocent as Shireen, she is loving and gentle and comforts and accepts her stuttering one handed uncle/father before she bleeds to death. I found it heartbreaking that she died panicking in her father arms.

Meereen was poor this week, found the scene in the Throne room awkward and forced with everyone showing up and getting a job to do from a fúcking sellsword. Not really sure Dany's scene was necessary. Can Drogon speak English? Could he not have a nap without Dany nagging him. The shot of the encircling Khalazar was pretty impressive.

Arya's murder of Trant was very dark, quick, vicious and powerful, she relished every moment of it. Found the scene afterwards to be a bit too Stephen King. Could just made her drink something to make her blind rather than that headfúck of a scene.

Nice to know Sam will be in a new city next season. I found his scene with Jon quite nice knowing that they may never meet again. After Ygritte I think Jon knows how hard it is to keep your vows when you're in love. I ignored the whole Benjen spoiler stuff and I actually found the whole thing on social media pointless and merely click bait material. If the show writers are try to suprise me I'd rather have them do it than some link on Facebook.

The Ides of March scene was done ok, in my head I imagined it to be colder, almost silent. I didn't appreciate "Olly" being Jon's last words. Would have liked a panned shot up to Ghost.

Finally one of the finest scenes of the season was Cersei's atonement. Her initial confession has lashings of dishonesty and the Lena Headleys subtly lets us know that she really hasn't learned any thing at that moment. The scene needed to be long to translate Cersei decent to humility. Her tiny smirk to the Septa during her scrubbing is wiped when her hair is cut, she composes herself and walks Naked to the Red Keep without trying to cover her bits like the previous High Septon. She begins determined and strong and eventually becomes a broken scared women covered in blood, filth and tears. It was poetic and one that may earn Lena an award.

When you compare it to other season finales there has always been an element of hope bar the marching army of the dead in Season 2 which is more of a "WHOA!!" ending. Season one ends with "THE KING IN THE NORTH" and the birth of Dragons, Season 3 ends with Dany being lifted up by freed slaves, Season 4 ends with Arya sailing into the sunset on a Bravosi ship heading towards another land. There is no really winner walking away this season bar Roose and Ramsay, while the story continues and things get worse there needs to be a glimmer of joy and element of hope. Instead we are left with the main character dead and bleeding out in the snow.

Jelle1880 wrote: »

Great write up, agree with most of it.

But I believe that the Bolton army contains many of the mercenaries that abandoned Stannis, hence their huge cavalry numbers (they stole all of his horses).

It would make sense, they'd have known there was nowhere else to go for leagues, so switching sides in order to survive the weather never mind the battle would not be a difficult decision for a sell sword.

I can't remember from the books but do any of the Stark children apart from Bran have the ability to warg?

Terrible finale to a terrible season.

It appears D&D have scarificed the TV show to save the Books. Very noble of them. It seems they've gone off on different tangents, totally opposites to the books to save spoiling the books.

There is no way Stannis is going to lose the Battle of Ice in the books.