Middle-Aged Ambitions

slowsteady · 01-06-2011 9:18pm #1

Having read this most Boardsies will think this log should be properly titled ‘How Not to Train for a Marathon’ and they would probably be right.

Asthma as a child, 40 years with no running, decided last June to run the 2010 Dublin marathon. Pulled out a plan from the RTE Guide for the very first marathon, 1980?, which showed how long I had harboured the ambition to run the race. From a zero base I trained for 16 weeks and by sticking to the pacers got around in just under the 4 hour target so was delighted with myself. Full of beans and confidence I then went out and picked up a knee injury two weeks later tearing down a hill far faster than was sensible and spent the winter nursing the injury and hurt pride.

Older and somewhat wiser, I started back in March and have been progressing well in terms of hitting race targets but not in disciplined training.

Confession time –

I start too fast
I don’t warm up properly
I don’t do tempo, intervals or strides
I don’t cool down properly
I only sometimes do stretches
I nearly always push every run, long or short
Time is not my own, 4 kids, hour each way commute

Positives –

I carry no excess weight (emphasis on ‘excess’ here:))
I have had no injuries since last November

Despite the above, thanks to Meno and Oisin, managed a 1:44 Wexford half last week. This last was unplanned but a late addition as I had to go for shoulder surgery this week so am now on enforced ‘taper’ for at least 2/3 weeks and going off my head already.

So, with nothing else to do, thought I would start a training log, with no training in it for now, in the hope of getting a plan together to get me to the finish in Dublin in 30 minutes better than last year.

Have the P&D book and advice from my athletic surgeon ringing in my ears.

This could be the shortest log ever, if the healing doesn’t work out, or a redemption from the sins of my recent past…

RubyK · 02-06-2011 9:00am

Hope you recover quickly from the recent surgery.

That was great running to go from zero miles to a sub4 in 16 weeks!

Best of luck with the log and training

slowsteady · 02-06-2011 9:20am

Thanks RK.

Looking back on last year, ignorance was bliss, but I think the key to getting there was staying completely injury free. I don't think I lost a day with any kind of niggle the whole time.

Now I know more, I am much more conscious of what can happen but still have a hard time doing things the right way, but that's what this log is for.

menoscemo · 02-06-2011 10:17am

Best of luck with it.
You looked dead comfortable doing 1'44 in wexford, I am sure you had another 5 minutes if you wanted. 3'30 looks to be a reasonable target if you get over your surgery. All the best!

slowsteady · 02-06-2011 11:17am

menoscemo wrote: »

Best of luck with it.
You looked dead comfortable doing 1'44 in wexford, I am sure you had another 5 minutes if you wanted. 3'30 looks to be a reasonable target if you get over your surgery. All the best!

Good luck with Monday in Cork, if you do the same good job pacing you will have a lot of happy campers. Would love to come along as a spectator but not allowed to drive. Hope it is 15C, cloudy, dry and no wind!

slowsteady · 07-06-2011 4:12pm

Day 9 of zero running.

Shoulder is healing cleanly, whether surgery will have proved to be effective or not, it is still early days. Have had the quietest week of my entire life the past 7 days, being right-handed with right shoulder surgery, pretty much everything I normally do is off limits bar small (as in 1/2 a mile) walks with the dogs. Working on the principle that early rest is good rest and trying to avoid setbacks.

Withdrawal symptoms - found reading the logs up to and since the Cork Marathon great but it was hard to not be able to put on the runners at any point. Was up early yesterday checking the weather and seeing how ideal it was. Would love to have been down for the atmosphere and to shout on a few locals and any Boards t-shirts that went by. Running is very much a participant sport.

Since March have put up the following first-run PBs -

10k - 49:51
4 mile - 28:52
5 mile - 35:21
Half - 1:44:13

Delighted with them all as, particularly the half, they were all only incidental in a general marathon programme. This programme was a sort of couch to 26 mile plan for Dublin as I knew the surgery would crop up somewhere along the way. Now that is done, it is time to put together a more structured plan for whenever I get back on the road.

Now to sit down with a calender and P&D to see how 3:30:00 (less a few secs;)) is going to be achieved.

slowsteady · 08-06-2011 4:34pm

3:30:00 is to be the target for Dublin, but is it realistic?

Day 10 of zero running, another 2 weeks of the same. 18 weeks to Dublin starts on 27th June, just over 2 weeks away. So if everything goes to plan I should be starting back on the road again - just in time.

According to McMillan, my 1:44 in the Wexford half will give me 3:40 in Dublin but as it was a stop-gap race ahead of the surgery and I didn't kill myself I think the time was a bit soft. Earlier 4, 5 and 7.5 mile races all gave me a McMillan time of 3:27 to 3:35 for the marathon so I think a 3:30 plan is reasonable, even if there will have been a 4 week layoff beforehand.

That's the thinking, P&D 18 weeks 55 mile plan, based on a 3:30 target pace.

slowsteady · 12-06-2011 10:17am

Day 14 of zero running.

Human behavioural characteristics are amusing if looked at in a dispassionate way. Tell a friend you have a bad back, have had surgery, have been diagnosed with a little-known ailment, whatever, and, while never admitting to being expert in the condition, they will invariably have a story of someone they know or someone they have been told about with something similar who either did incredibly well or who had disastrous experience.

Which story you get depends on whether they feel you need to be cheered up or brought down to earth. I have had both, friends have given me the Lararus-type miracle cures while family are urging caution and describing the top 10 worst comebacks of all time - in glorious technicolor.

As the non-dispassionate recipient of all this good advice I am now working on a strategy of joining a silent order of monks and saying 'now't to nobody'.

Stuck at home, no work, driving, gardening, nothing, I have tried to keep off the calories but having seen the depths to which daytime TV has plumbed I am finding it very hard. Reading the A/R/T forum is both a blessing and a curse, great to see how well everyone else is doing but very hard to see all the lovely mornings and evenings of the the best days of the year passing by and doing nothing.

Special congrats to the WWR teams, by the way, on their brilliant performances yesterday. I'd say the craic was 90.

Looking out this morning at a miserable day I have another week of this purgatory before I dare pull on a pair of runners but, hey, it could be worse - it could be 2 weeks (thinking positive:))

DULLAHAN2 · 12-06-2011 12:58pm

slowsteady wrote: »

Day 14 of zero running.

Human behavioural characteristics are amusing if looked at in a dispassionate way. Tell a friend you have a bad back, have had surgery, have been diagnosed with a little-known ailment, whatever, and, while never admitting to being expert in the condition, they will invariably have a story of someone they know or someone they have been told about with something similar who either did incredibly well or who had disastrous experience.

Ha i had to laugh when i read this as i know how you feel, i got the same when i was out injured and unable to run for 10 weeks this year. The worst thing about being in that situation is having to watch jeremy kyle every day. I did'nt mind ellen too much for some strange reason

RubyK · 13-06-2011 2:00pm

slowsteady wrote: »

Looking out this morning at a miserable day I have another week of this purgatory before I dare pull on a pair of runners but, hey, it could be worse - it could be 2 weeks (thinking positive:))

Tis tough to stay positive slowsteady, but you are nearly there. I'm into my third week of idleness, and feeling every long slow day. I'm a pleasure to be around, now doubt :pac:

slowsteady · 21-06-2011 5:50am

Day 23 of zero running.

Just over 3 weeks since the shoulder surgery.

Spent serious amounts of time looking up medical guidance, talking to doctors, etc about the dos and don'ts, whens and wheres of getting back. Consensus is that it takes 2 months

to see any noticeable improvement in function, that you can go back to running/swimming after 2 weeks:), but you can't drive for a month - go figure.

However, after two quiet weeks the shoulder kicked up last week so it was as well that I had decided to give it another week of r & r. Now, three weeks in, I am still not happy so have decided to give it another week up to the 27th June, which is start date for the 18-week P&D plan. While I am mad to get back out on the road I know one bad setback will wipe out any chance of getting to Dublin and might well ruin the surgery.

The shoulder is fine during the day but is killing my sleep at night, hence the getting up at 4.45am on the longest day. The other thing killing me is that mornings and evenings get shorter from here on in and I have missed the best days of the year (July/August better be good:D)

Passing the time reading lots of running books - I'll be cross-eyed and broke before I get back on the road - roll on next weekend.

RubyK · 21-06-2011 9:33am

Sorry to read that it's taking longer than you hoped to get back on the roads

It's a frustrating process.

slowsteady · 10-07-2011 2:23pm

Having been good for almost four weeks I finally broke out ahead of the the start date for the P&D 18 week programme with a couple of 'looseners' as I was worried about what effect the running action would have on the shoulder.

Jun 22 - 2.7ml, 22:16, pace 8:20 - this was supposed to be gentle but I guess I got a bit carried away, no noticeable problems.
Jun 23 - 5.3ml, 47:23, pace 8:57 - deliberately slower this time, felt aches and stiffness in all my joints, after less than 3 miles the previous day :eek: but nothing specific and all in the legs.
Jun 25 - 5.3ml, 42:00, pace 7.56 - gave the body a rest after the previous run but let it rip a bit on this run. Was very pleased to hit the 8 min pace, nothing like fresh legs

Jun 27 - First day of P&D programme - REST !! - managed this one

Jun 28 - 6.0ml, 52:56, pace 8.55 - Shoulder was still causing problems in general life, nothing running related, but became suddenly cautious and decide to pass on the lactate and strides sessions (chicken!;)) for a couple of weeks for fear of agravating something. Therefore did a straightforward aerobic session, but included some hill work as a penance. Calves stiff as might be expected.
Jun 30 - 5.3ml, 41:10, pace 7:47 - Was sucked in to do some charity work around the Tall Ships so time was at a premium and had to sneek out for this run. Let go to see where I was at and was pleased with the result. The month layoff had worried me as to how far back I would have gone but this gave me a bit of reassurance - stamina would be a different issue I was sure.
Jul 2 - 8.3ml, 74:00, pace 8:53 - supposed to be a 4 mile recovery run but as I had short cut runs earlier in the week and knew tomorrow's 12 miler wasn't going to happen I stretched this one out. Felt lots of niggles in the legs but taking care not to roll the shoulders while running.
Jul 3 - 7.0ml, 75:00 pace 10.43 - Down in Dunmore East to see the Tall Ships sail out and collect a few bob, great finale to a fabulous few days. Because of the traffic shutdown ended up being a 'gofor' back and forth to the carparks and clocked an unexpected few jogging miles in the blazing heat.
Jul 4 - 5.3ml, 44.06, pace 8.20 - easy run, aimed for 8:20 and actually hit it, correct pace per the programme should be 8:40 but got carried away.
Jul 6 - 10.1ml, 90.22, pace 8.58 - aerobic run at 9.15, got up early, fantastic morning found pace easy so ended up ahead overall
Jul 8 - 5.3ml, 41:41, pace 7:52 - tried this at marathon pace - and succeeded - found the legs good after the 10 miler so gave them a bit of stick
Jul 9 - 5.3ml, 46:46, pace 8:50 - back to the plan, this was to be a 5 mile recovery at 9:30 but I find it very hard to run at any pace slower than 9 minutes, I have a tendency to shuffle rather than run and I find this very hard - need to improve in this area "Slow runs, slow"
Jul 10 - 12.7ml, 108:24, pace 8:31 - first long run of the plan, for me anyway, 13 miles with 8 at PMP. My planned marathon pace is 7:50 but that is for October not now

- so what pace today? - as my last half was at around 8:30 and I had little mileage under my belt since then I felt this would be a good target. Out at dawn, lovely day, started slow and felt the past couple of days in the legs after the first few miles, nearly called it off but gritted the teeth and ground out the last 10 miles. Found each and every mile hard but stuck to the pace with the Garmin and got there in the end.

Overall after two weeks back on the road I am happy enough with progress. The shoulder is not good in the general sense but not impeding the running so far. Need to try and stick closer to the programme in the coming weeks but given I have come back off a month layoff will stay adaptable until I establish a better base. Passed 400 miles for the year today - only another 725 to go in the plan!! :eek:

RubyK · 11-07-2011 9:10am

Wow, you certainly got back into training no bother!

Hope the shoulder comes right for you asap.

slowsteady · 11-07-2011 8:47pm

RubyK wrote: »

Wow, you certainly got back into training no bother!

Hope the shoulder comes right for you asap.

'No bother' is stretching it - by quite a bit!

The legs are going well, yes, but I am still treading on eggshells (if that make any sense) with the shoulder - it is still not back, even to where it was before the operation. I'm told two to six months recovery and I can well believe it. I have a sinking feeling that the operation has not worked but will reserve judgement for another month or so. In the meantime being back on the road is giving me a bit of sanity.

Glad today is a rest day after yesterday's 13 miles, the legs are knackered!!

Sorry to see your comeback is proving erratic, all you can do is dig in there and persist.

slowsteady · 12-07-2011 9:18am

Aerobic run, 10.09 miles, 1:24:34, 8:23 pace

After a 13 mile run with 8 at marathon pace on Sunday and a rest day yesterday I needed to put in a 10 mile aerobic run today but as I was going to be working late tonight I needed to fit it in this morning.

Doing the maths, needed to be at work for 8am, 45 minute commute, breakfast, shower, run, OK up at 5.10am!! :eek: - are we mad or what?

Up before the alarm, slipped out so as not to disturb OH, 4 kids, 2 dogs and the cat. Lovely morning, calm, cool, no sun.

Started out briskly enough, legs felt heavy but ignored that and pushed on. Timetable I had set myself left no room for slippage so kept up the tempo and only occasionally looked at the Garmin. Calves protested for most of the run but kept going out to the finish, showered, breakfast, car, work and on with the day.

Only now had a chance to look at the Garmin. Supposed to be an aerobic run which for me is 9:00 to 9:15 pace and come in with 8:23

- no wonder it felt tougher than it should!

I have always had a problem with slow paced runs, if it is not hurting, I am not trying - need to try harder - at not trying!

Plan says a 4 mile recovery at 9:15 to 9:30 tomorrow - so we will see how close I can get to that.

slowsteady · 14-07-2011 10:27pm

Lactate run 4 @ Half Mara pace - 8.3 miles, 1:07:39, 8.07 pace

Passed on yesterday's 4 mile recovery as my shoulder, which had been niggling all day, flared up last night and rather than chance running I dosed up on ibuprofen and went to bed hoping for the best.

Today it was fairly fragile and sensitive but more from whatever went on yesterday than anything else so I decided to risk a run today.

This run was meant to be at lactate pace with 4 miles at half marathon which for me would be (in theory) 7:30. I was not looking forward to this but wanted to try it out and see how I got on. It was very hot and humid this evening and given the past couple of days with the shoulder I decided to scale back the pace and push without a specific target in mind. Went out slowly, the legs felt stiff from the last run and probably needed the missed recovery miles but covered the first 3 miles in 8:10, too fast, then tried to hit the 4 HMP miles but struggled all the way and only managed an average of 7:44, ran the last 1.3 miles as a cooldown (sun, no wind, 21C :rolleyes:) at 9.24. Pleased enough, sweated buckets, but came home and ate for Ireland so undid all the good!!

Rest day tomorrow, which is just as well as taking the kids to HP so lots of sweets, popcorn, fizzy drinks, etc to stretch the waistline another notch. 4 mile recovery on Saturday to knock it off again (will probably need Sunday's 14 miles and half of next week as well

:D)

After yesterday's scare, happy to have done today and have a couple of easy days to give the shoulder a bit more rest.

Ray von · 14-07-2011 11:20pm

Savage mileage recently fair play!

Your like me with running too fast. Trying to reel myself in and do more miles in 8:30-9:00 range.

What races have you planned before DCM?

slowsteady · 15-07-2011 11:03am

Trying to stick to the P&D 18-week plan, have made it up as I went along previously, so having a serious go at this. Pacing is an issue all the time so need to work on that for a couple of weeks.

Races are an issue, reluctant to go into any too early as I find it hard to hold back, which is why I passed up tomorrow's 5 miler in Dublin. Have a list of 13 races between now and DCM, mainly local 5 and 10 milers, couple of half marathons including Dublin and Waterford in September. I know I won't do them all, first race up is not till end of July. Purpose will be to track progress towards 3:30 in October.

All going well aims will be as follows -

5 Mile 30:00
10 mile 76:00
Half 1:40:00

Here's hoping!!

slowsteady · 16-07-2011 1:20pm

Recovery - 5.3 miles, 46:53, pace 8:51

While the rest of Ireland was headed to Dublin for a similar 5 miler I was out trying to behave and keep to a 9 minute plus pace.

I have to confess I find these runs hard to do. First of all I do them alone as my opportunities to plan runs is limited and early morning is my best opening. Second, I am out of the habit of bringing the i-pod so that I can concentrate better on my pace, as I tend to churn out the one pace otherwise. Third, because I am not pushing the legs I find the niggles come to the fore and I am never sure are they serious or not.

Today, for example, first my right heel kicked up so that I ended up running on my toes for a half mile or so, then it was my calves which I put down to the hard runs during the week still in the legs, then the left hamstring tightened up (probably because of the tip-toeing earlier). It all does my head in as I know that underneath there is nothing wrong.

Anyway, lovely morning again, great to be alive and out running!!

slowsteady · 17-07-2011 10:17am

Medium run, 14.0 miles, 2 hours (less 11 secs!), pace 8:34

Target was to run at 8.50 pace.

Deja vu today, having dismissed pain in my right heel yesterday which I solved by speeding up it came back again after 2 miles this morning, solution was to speed up even more so did the next 3 miles at 8.15 pace until the pain eased. Thought at one point I might have to stop and hobble home but glad I stuck it out.

Legs were stiff after what has been a heavy enough week (50 miles including last Sunday) and after only 3 weeks back on the road I'd say the 4 weeks of idleness previously is telling.

Good run, pleasant morning, the rain which threatened held off.

Week 3 of P&D plan completed, only 6 miles short of schedule, overall a happy bunny.:)

slowsteady · 19-07-2011 9:07am

Aerobic, 8.32 miles, 1:08:19, pace 8:12

Anyone reading this log will know I have issues with pacing and have zero experience of strides, lactate runs, speed work, etc. Since starting the P&D programme I have avoided any of these runs citing a fear of causing issues with my shoulder (it's my excuse and I'm sticking to it

).

Today, I was to do 8 miles ay aerobic pace with 10 x 100 strides so bit the bullet and said I would have a go. My right heel which was causing problems early in my last 2 runs started off again so I used the same solution - speed up and run more on my toes - so the first couple of miles were covered at 7:40 pace.

Being cute I said I would do the strides on the down hill parts of my run, easier, wrong:o. It meant I went a lot faster than I would have otherwise and by the time I had 4 done I was ready to die, all I could think of was how was I going to do the other six!

I cut the recovery pace back to 8:45 to 9:00 (not hard!) and spread out the remaining strides, this time keeping them for the flatter parts of the road. By the time I was finished I knew I had been in a battle but the second half of the run was not the issue I thought it was going to be after the first few miles.

Legs know all about it now but will see how they recover in the next couple of days. Upper arm rather than the shoulder was aching more than usual but not too bad now so I thing it will be OK.

Next strides session not for two weeks TG!!, back to plodding for the rest of the week - looking forward to it:)

slowsteady · 20-07-2011 9:05pm

Recovery, 5.3 miles, 42:19, pace 8:00

What a difference a year makes.

It was July last year that I first pulled on a pair of runners for the first time on a regular basis in many, many years and today I repeated the loop I started on back then. 5.3 miles in 48/49/50 minutes, an odd 47 thrown in on a good day, rarely getting around without a stop to admire the view!

Today, a relaxed enough run in 42 minutes. Not good though, for the right reasons, supposed to be a recovery run at 9:15 to 9:30 pace but run off at 8:00

I need to get these right but running alone it is easy to push on. Will probably pay in tomorrow's 10-miler.

Weather good, legs good, life OK.

slowsteady · 21-07-2011 10:20pm

Aerobic, 10.09 miles, 81:20, pace 8:00

Done it again tonight, supposed to be aerobic, i.e. 9:00 plus, but bang it out at 8:00. The start of my run is downhill for the first half mile so the brakes are on but when I hit the flat the tempo tends to continue and I tend to drive into every hill as I feel it is good for the legs - result - slow runs too fast.

Note to self - LSR on Sunday at 9:00 only.

Warm tonight and due to get much warmer so next week could be interesting, I don't do heat.

Quick way to lose weight - Give Blood. Went down the Blood Bank after the run to give a donation, another 1.1 lbs down, mind you the biscuits and cup of tea balanced it up. (PC gone mad, really miss the small bottle of the black stuff afterwards, not the same in the pub).

Be interesting to see if it has any effect on the next few runs, I tend to recover fairly well but more slowly as the years go by.

slowsteady · 23-07-2011 12:33pm

Recovery, 5.3 miles, 48:53, pace 9:14

Two posts ago I spoke about how impoved I was compared to this time last year. Today was so bad I ended up walking

. I had half planned to skip this run but it was such a lovely morning, sunshine, blue skies I decided to go out and just enjoy a slow run. I was very good (for a change) and set out slowly but my usual issues arose, heels were aching, then knees, hips, calves etc. Not pushing a run seems to give me time to analyse every niggle and mentally makes everything hard work. Even when I tried to up the pace a bit there was no life in the legs and the harder I tried the less energy there seemed to be. Finally in the last mile, which is significantly uphill, 160ft, the legs finally ran out of battery and I had to walk - OK, it was only for 20 seconds - but this hasn't happened in so long I can't remember.

Possible explanation below, but the above could make tomorrow's LSR interesting.

Breech of faith

Confession time. She was very nice; long, slim, sleek and polished, looking gorgeous in red with an allure promising a good time... ...even panderered to the weakness of modern man, Mammon, the desire for good things... and was she fast!... the wind in your hair, sun on your back...had a great evening... with the promise of more to come...

OK, I bought a bike. Having been thinking about it for some time, finally took the plunge and invested via the Bike to Work scheme. Picked it up last night and as it was a rest night from the running went off for a 25k cycle. The technology leap since my last machine is unreal and the use of atrophied leg muscles is probably equally a shock. While I didn't feel the cycle had much effect on today's run, who knows. A more likely cause of the battery deficit was the blood donation Thursday night - must go and savage a sheep (or a Big Mac!!) and get some red meat into the system.

DULLAHAN2 · 23-07-2011 5:29pm

slowsteady wrote: »

Recovery, 5.3 miles, 48:53, pace 9:14

Two posts ago I spoke about how impoved I was compared to this time last year. Today was so bad I ended up walking . I had half planned to skip this run but it was such a lovely morning, sunshine, blue skies I decided to go out and just enjoy a slow run. I was very good (for a change) and set out slowly but my usual issues arose, heels were aching, then knees, hips, calves etc. Not pushing a run seems to give me time to analyse every niggle and mentally makes everything hard work.

Do you wear inserts at all? This used to happen to me until i put in gel arch supports that i got in elverys. My heel still gets sore if i dont wear them at work then go for a run but if i wear them 90% of the time my heel doesnt get sore.

slowsteady · 24-07-2011 7:33pm

DULLAHAN2 wrote: »

Do you wear inserts at all?

I think it is just the slow running and my mind working overtime as a consequence. Part of it is, I think, that because of the slow pacing I am inclined to heel-strike rather than landing mid-foot and that is what is causing the problem.

Either I find a way around that or I might give the inserts a go.

slowsteady · 24-07-2011 7:43pm

LSR, 15 miles, 2hr 17:43, pace 9:09

Hard, hard run.

Pizza, bottle of wine, humidity, blood donation - all can be used to explain why this felt so tough this morning, but it was pure grind from start to finish.

Hardest run I can ever remember. Glad its over, move on.

Rest day tomorrow, badly needed.

slowsteady · 26-07-2011 6:28pm

PMP run, 8.3 miles, 1:08:59, 8:17 pace

Given the past couple of runs this was always going to be difficult. The target pace should be 7:50 but this was never on the cards so I went out as hard as possible and have to be happy with the result.

Legs are totally lacking in energy almost as if the batteries are flat. Given the contrast with last week it has to be the blood donation (I hope:eek:) and it should come right. Today was definitely easier than Sunday but was still very tough.

I had planned to try a 10 mile race next Sunday as the plan includes 10 miles at PMP so it would fit in well, but now I am not too sure. I think I will hold fire until later in the week to decide.

slowsteady · 27-07-2011 8:36pm

Recovery, 5.3 miles, 44:59, pace 8:30

A week or two ago I had trouble keeping the pace down on this type of run, no longer, it is nearly the opposite problem, keeping going at all.

Legs are completely gone at the moment, head is no better, everything is a struggle. Started this run in reasonable shape at 8:15 pace but drifted from there and was struggling to hold 8:45 for the last 2 miles - not good, not good at all.

Not sure what to do, rest for a few days or grind it out and hope it comes right. At this moment feel I need to grit the teeth and keep going or marathon plan will go up in smoke, doing well so far, planned mileage 165 miles, actual 161. Quantity OK, quality not so good.:(

slowsteady · 28-07-2011 8:57pm

Aerobic, 10.1 miles, 1:24:02, pace 8:20

This log is turning into one long moan of recent times, need to change that but first one final whinge:D Being the gentleman I opened a door for a member of the fairer sex and pulled something in the dodgy shoulder which continued to throb all day and during tonight's run. Hopefully nothing a good night's sleep won't cure but I think the Ibuprofen will be hit on the way to bed (or maybe now!).

While this run should be done at a more relaxed pace my last few sessions have been so poor I wanted to get out and push to see if there is any pick up at all in the legs ahead of the weekend. Kept the pace at around 8:05 for the first 5 miles but then the drift began so that I averaged only 8:40 for the second half. By the end the legs were completely shot but at least I kept going, only just.

Overall reasonably happy as there seems to be some improvement on earlier in the week but way off where I wanted to be. Thinking of passing on the recovery run on Saturday after tomorrow's rest day in the hopes the legs might be fresh enough to do a 10 mile race on Sunday justice - I don't just want to turn up. If this was to work out I have a race in mind for each of the following 3 weekends, this solo training is all very well but it would be nice to see some fellow masochists once in a while.

This will be the first major departure from the P&D plan but each one should be individual so from now on mine is going to be 'based on' P&D:)

ecoli · 28-07-2011 9:14pm

slowsteady wrote: »

Aerobic, 10.1 miles, 1:24:02, pace 8:20

This log is turning into one long moan of recent times, need to change that but first one final whinge:D Being the gentleman I opened a door for a member of the fairer sex and pulled something in the dodgy shoulder which continued to throb all day and during tonight's run. Hopefully nothing a good night's sleep won't cure but I think the Ibuprofen will be hit on the way to bed (or maybe now!).

While this run should be done at a more relaxed pace my last few sessions have been so poor I wanted to get out and push to see if there is any pick up at all in the legs ahead of the weekend. Kept the pace at around 8:05 for the first 5 miles but then the drift began so that I averaged only 8:40 for the second half. By the end the legs were completely shot but at least I kept going, only just.

Overall reasonably happy as there seems to be some improvement on earlier in the week but way off where I wanted to be. Thinking of passing on the recovery run on Saturday after tomorrow's rest day in the hopes the legs might be fresh enough to do a 10 mile race on Sunday justice - I don't just want to turn up. If this was to work out I have a race in mind for each of the following 3 weekends, this solo training is all very well but it would be nice to see some fellow masochists once in a while.

This will be the first major departure from the P&D plan but each one should be individual so from now on mine is going to be 'based on' P&D:)

Have found myself sometimes if you take two days off like that the legs not exactly firing on all cylinders coming into a race. One option would be 20 min recovery (around 10 min + mile pace) and do three or four strides after @ race pace (60m-80m) usually does wonders. Find the run increases blood flow for the day and aids recovery rather than a complete day off. Doesnt have to be fast run as slow as you feel your body can possiblly go and keep the time on your feet short to 15-20 min. The strides just get the legs usued to the pace for the next day and walk back recovery so they dont take anything out of you

slowsteady · 28-07-2011 9:56pm

ecoli wrote: »

Have found myself sometimes if you take two days off like that the legs not exactly firing on all cylinders coming into a race. One option would be 20 min recovery (around 10 min + mile pace) and do three or four strides after @ race pace (60m-80m) usually does wonders. Find the run increases blood flow for the day and aids recovery rather than a complete day off. Doesnt have to be fast run as slow as you feel your body can possiblly go and keep the time on your feet short to 15-20 min. The strides just get the legs usued to the pace for the next day and walk back recovery so they dont take anything out of you

Thanks Ecoli, might try that. The legs have felt so leaden for the past week it has been quite worrying.

I can tie the feeling into this day last week when I gave blood and given it's negative effect on me I can see why EPO was so attractive in the past - I could hardly ask the BTSB for a lend of it back ahead of Sunday?

menoscemo · 28-07-2011 11:51pm

slowsteady wrote: »

Recovery, 5.3 miles, 44:59, pace 8:30

A week or two ago I had trouble keeping the pace down on this type of run, no longer, it is nearly the opposite problem, keeping going at all.

Legs are completely gone at the moment, head is no better, everything is a struggle. Started this run in reasonable shape at 8:15 pace but drifted from there and was struggling to hold 8:45 for the last 2 miles - not good, not good at all.

Hey slowteady, now this is just an observation:

Basically it is not a recovery run if you are even concerned about pace, you shouldn't be struggling to 'hold pace' during a recovery run because the whole point of these runs is that you go as slow as possible. You did the recovery run after a tough session (PMP Miles) so the point is to do a short slow jog to freshen the legs up before your next run.
Check out Mcmillan calculator- he gives the recovery runs for a 3'30 marathoner at 9'30-10 min/mile. Now I realise 9'30 might seem too slow, but you should try to go no faster than 9 min/mile and go as much slower than this as you want.

Your runs of late are becoming very one paced (i.e. 8'10-8'30 min/mile). If you want to be fresh for your fast runs, you have to learn to run the slow ones (i.e. recovery runs) very slowly. Ask yourself before each run 'what is the point of this run'. You cannot call a recovery run such when you are trying to push the pace and end up actually doing a fast GA pace....

slowsteady · 29-07-2011 8:25am

menoscemo wrote: »

Hey slowteady, now this is just an observation:

Basically it is not a recovery run if you are even concerned about pace, you shouldn't be struggling to 'hold pace' during a recovery run because the whole point of these runs is that you go as slow as possible. You did the recovery run after a tough session (PMP Miles) so the point is to do a short slow jog to freshen the legs up before your next run.
Check out Mcmillan calculator- he gives the recovery runs for a 3'30 marathoner at 9'30-10 min/mile. Now I realise 9'30 might seem too slow, but you should try to go no faster than 9 min/mile and go as much slower than this as you want.

Your runs of late are becoming very one paced (i.e. 8'10-8'30 min/mile).

Thanks for the observations, Menoscemo.

I know myself that I am doing these runs too fast but I find 9'15 plus harder to do than 8 - 8'30 and speed up to make it 'easier'. As you say, I need to remember the purpose of the run and stick to it.

Recovery run tomorrow.

slowsteady · 30-07-2011 9:50am

Recovery plus strides, 3.71 miles, 34:25, pace 9:17

The benefits of putting up a log are shown here.

Having decided to pass on this session a couple of days ago Ecoli and Menoscemo pointed out the reasons for some of what we do so I decided to follow their advice. I pulled my sorry ass out of the bed this morning, pulled on the gear and started off.

The tiredness of the past week was still there but I kept down the pace and did the shortest loop I can out here in the country (I have a total aversion to stopping and going back the same road). After the 2.5 miles I felt better, at least the legs did, so I followed Ecoli's suggested 5 x 80m strides and these seemed to actually be easier than the run. Maybe they blew the cobwebs out of the system as the legs feel more relaxed now.

Still not sure about the race tomorrow, will take it as it comes in the morning, the plan calls for 10 miles at PMP as part of a 15 mile run so it would fit in perfectly.

slowsteady · 01-08-2011 10:07pm

LSR 15.44 miles, 2:16:26, pace 8:50

Passed on the 10miler yesterday, said I would do it on feel. Saturday took the kids off to Spraoi in Waterford, good craic, but ended up playing chase with the kids and pulled up with a sharp pain in right heel. Then yesterday it was a miserable dull foggy wet morning and with an hour drive to the race, the residual niggle in the heel, and a serious doubt about how I would do, I decided to give it a miss.

Not only that but I left the runners at home and spent the day with the family at Spraoi right up to 11pm - so no running at all:eek:. Have to say the whole Spraoi thing is very good for families and exposes kids to art in a way they would never normally see it. Noticeable that the crowds were lower than other times and outside of the activities the town was very quiet - recessionary Ireland - but a good weekend otherwise.

Got up this morning - officially a rest day - and decided I better do yesterday's miles in some form. Guilt is a great motivator (and this log).

Supposed to be 16 miles with 10 at PMP, knew that wasn't going to happen so took off at a comfortable LSR pace. Very warm, sweated loads but brought juice along to replace lost fluids, don't always do it but knew I would need it today. Hit 10 miles in 87 minutes but doubt if yesterday would have been where I wanted (nearer to 75) so happy enough at the effort. Bashed out the balance steadily enough and was pleased to have it in the bag.

Legs OK, bar the occasional heel pain, but tired feeling for the rest of today. Intend to cut back a bit on this week's mileage to try and put in a respectable performance in the Genzyme 10k next weekend.

slowsteady · 03-08-2011 9:24pm

Intervals

Garmin is working about as well as myself at present, i.e. very slow:)

Currently been 10 minutes loading up today's activity ands its not like there was a lot to upload.

After the LSR on Monday took a rest day yesterday as the legs were very lethargic. To go out today was a battle as time was short and the weather was very sh**ty, wet, misty, drizzle (classic Irish summer day - or is this now autumn?).

Didn't have a clear plan so after a mile warmup went with 7 x 200m at best pace with 200m jogs. Found these to be very hard as there is still no bounce in the legs, didn't have the reserves to push on as a few weeks ago.

Mile or so at a steady 7:30 to finish with a few stretches to follow in the mist which was lovely - view of the weather about as consistent as the weather itself;).

Garmin still not loaded!! About 4.2 miles in 33 minutes, 8 min pace

Not confident at all about running in 10k Sunday but need to see where I am at the same time. Will be first race since the operation and shoulder been getting between me and a night's sleep the past couple of days so not sure what way to approach it.

Despite present difficulties signed up to the DCM before the end of July deadline so commited now

. Given number 1663 which seemed surprisingly low if numbers are to be on a par with last year.

slowsteady · 05-08-2011 9:40am

Easy, 5.3 miles, 44:18, pace 8:22

If this was easy I'm in trouble.

Having passed up on racing last weekend I'm determined to give the 10k a shot on Sunday and have cut back on the mileage this week to give myself every chance.

The legs have not been behaving the past couple of weeks and everything has seemed be much harder than it should be - whether it is just my head or not I'm not sure.

After the intervals on Wednesday evening the legs were OK but had a lethargic feel to them yesterday and this morning when I got up. Out on the road at 6am, cool, sunny, 8 degrees, a real autumn feel about the morning.

Decided to keep this short and relatively easy ahead of Sunday so went out with 8:10 to 8:20 pace in mind but going by feel more than the watch. Legs didn't really relax and the whole run was hard work, pushed more than I would have liked and still only came in with 8:22 pace.

Not happy but not sure what is wrong. Will go out and do a couple of easy miles tomorrow with a few strides to try and loosen the legs a bit.

Need a good performance on Sunday to put back a bit of confidence.

average_runner · 05-08-2011 10:08am

8.22 for an easy run is a little bit fast so dont be too hard on yourself.

I usually do easy runs at 8.45 - 9.00.

The 9 min one is usually at 6.30 am run with bag on my back to work.

Keep up the good work and you will do great in the 10k race.

slowsteady · 05-08-2011 1:45pm

average_runner wrote: »

8.22 for an easy run is a little bit fast so dont be too hard on yourself.

I usually do easy runs at 8.45 - 9.00.

The 9 min one is usually at 6.30 am run with bag on my back to work.

Keep up the good work and you will do great in the 10k race.

Easy was probably the wrong description of the run, probably more of a leg loosener than anything else. My concern is that there seems to be no reserves left to be able to pick up the pace which is why Sunday should tell a lot.

I see from your log you are going great guns at the moment, even with the tempo and intervals.

ecoli · 05-08-2011 2:30pm

I have just looked through your log in full and i couldnt help but notice you are running all your runs way too fast.

Your last race as a 1.44 HM (just shy of 8 min pace)

Since then you have had time off through surgery which affects your fitness levels and needs to be taken into account.

You recently ran a HM paced quality session @ 8.07 pace yet your paces in your easy runs have varied from 8.00-8.50. This means effectively all your "easy runs" have been around your current fitness levels for marathon pace. This is way too fast and you are not allowing your body to recover

The base rule behind all physical training is the rule of “stress and recover.” This rule simply states that if you stress the body in a certain physical discipline (such as running), and then let the body recover from that stress, it will be better adapted to that stress than it was before. It is important to note that this rule has 2 important steps 1) stress and 2) recover, and that one without the other does not accomplish the adaptation we are seeking.

When we stress the body we break it down and our fitness level when we finish is lower than when we start. This is only makes sense, if we run a 5k time trial we cannot then run another 5k race immediately afterwards in the same time. But when we allow the body to recover from that stress, a super compensation occurs which takes our adaptation (or fitness) level higher than it was originally. So then if we were to run a 5k time trial again, after we had fully recovered (such as several days later), we would be able to run it faster.

By running these runs too quick you are not actually getting the most out of your training and are not getting the benefits you should be. If you struggle to run slower find a training partner who you know runs these paces in their easy runs and do your easy runs with them.

Ill Give you an example: My HM pace from my last one would be 5.53 per mile yet if you look to the easy days in my training logs my easy paces are over a min slower than that (6.50-7.20 recently)

I would even suggest a few days recovery after the race 20 min rec jogs (outside 10 pace) to allow the pep come back into the legs

slowsteady · 05-08-2011 3:29pm

ecoli wrote: »

I have just looked through your log in full and i couldnt help but notice you are running all your runs way too fast.

Your last race as a 1.44 HM (just shy of 8 min pace)

Since then you have had time off through surgery which affects your fitness levels and needs to be taken into account.

You recently ran a HM paced quality session @ 8.07 pace yet your paces in your easy runs have varied from 8.00-8.50. This means effectively all your "easy runs" have been around your current fitness levels for marathon pace. This is way too fast and you are not allowing your body to recover

The base rule behind all physical training is the rule of “stress and recover.” This rule simply states that if you stress the body in a certain physical discipline (such as running), and then let the body recover from that stress, it will be better adapted to that stress than it was before. It is important to note that this rule has 2 important steps 1) stress and 2) recover, and that one without the other does not accomplish the adaptation we are seeking.

When we stress the body we break it down and our fitness level when we finish is lower than when we start. This is only makes sense, if we run a 5k time trial we cannot then run another 5k race immediately afterwards in the same time. But when we allow the body to recover from that stress, a super compensation occurs which takes our adaptation (or fitness) level higher than it was originally. So then if we were to run a 5k time trial again, after we had fully recovered (such as several days later), we would be able to run it faster.

By running these runs too quick you are not actually getting the most out of your training and are not getting the benefits you should be. If you struggle to run slower find a training partner who you know runs these paces in their easy runs and do your easy runs with them.

Ill Give you an example: My HM pace from my last one would be 5.53 per mile yet if you look to the easy days in my training logs my easy paces are over a min slower than that (6.50-7.20 recently)

I would even suggest a few days recovery after the race 20 min rec jogs (outside 10 pace) to allow the pep come back into the legs

Thanks Ecoli, I took on board your advice last week and kept the LSR out at 8:50. Because I feel I need a race of some sort I cut back heavily on this week's mileage to try and freshen up the legs (24 versus 37 planned) but maybe its a bit early to expect an improvement.

Long commute, 4 kids and living in the country keep time at a premium so runs get fitted in around life (should be the other way I know:)). This makes finding a regular training partner difficult but maybe I'll ask around again.

Will give the 10k a lash and will keep closer to the programme from next week on.

Thanks again for taking the time.

slowsteady · 06-08-2011 5:03pm

Recovery with strides, 3.32 miles, 31:24, pace 9:28

Could have passed on this with a race tomorrow but following Ecoli's advice last week went out for a very slow couple of miles and 6 x 100m strides with 100m recovery to finish. Cool morning but was sweating profusely by the end.

Big decision - do I wear the Boards top and hope to do it justice or go quietly in case of a crash and burn?

slowsteady · 07-08-2011 6:36pm

Genzyme 10k plus w/u and w/d

First race since having surgery at the end of May so wanted to see where I was at having struggled somewhat in training the past couple of weeks.

Biggest dilemma going into this race was what pace to aim for. Had got 8:01 in the GIR back in April but achieved 7:04 in a 5-miler in mid-May. Ambition was to try for 45 minutes but felt that was somewhat beyond my abilities at present so went with 4:45/km pace which would see me home in 47:30 if it could be held.

Smallish entry, due no doubt to the exodus up the motorway to Croker, Deise people are eternal optimists:). Weather was kind, cool to start, little wind, sunshine pushing the temperatures as the morning progressed with a light shower to welcome home the bulk of the runners.

Started mid-pack but the field was soon strung out due to the downhill first km. 2.5km in, looked at the Garmin to see I was 22 sec ahead of target, which I was pleased enough with as it meant I hadn't gone hareing off as previously.

At this point a guy with 'France' on the back of his t-shirt went tearing by as if it was the final 100m and I watched to see how long he would keep that up for. He settled in about 150m ahead and I kept him in sight for the next 3km which were fairly flat.

The trend over the next couple of km was to rise steadily and I gradually reeled 'France' in along with a number of other runners so that by the 7k mark I was only 10m behind. At this point I started to struggle as the juice ran out in the legs and the next km was hard work and I was passed by a couple pacing together and they and 'France' gradually pulled away.

The downhill after the start came again just in time to save the legs and the stride lengthened as I let gravity take over for km 9 and I stopped the rot with those in front. The final km was pretty much flat marred only by taking the turn at the last roundabout too sharply and getting a sharp pain in the left achilles for my troubles. This hurt and meant that I passed up the chance to sprint into the finish (not sure that I had the energy anyway:)).

Time came in at around 47:10 or 7:39 pace so overall I was pleased that I had beaten April and not crashed and burned by going out too fast.

What did I learn? That I am still not back to where I was before the surgery and that for all the effort put into the recent 40+mile weeks the type of run was generally too hard and there needs to be more proper recovery runs. Message - stick closer to the plan.

Based on today have booked the Clonmel half in 2 weeks time as my PMP run so that should prove interesting.

Never did get to 'France':( - maybe next time;)

slowsteady · 09-08-2011 8:11pm

Bad day in the office..

If there graphs drawn for world stock markets, tourist bookings in London and my marathon prospects, there would be a distinct resemblance between them all, things are not good.

At the end of the race on Sunday I tweaked my left achilles and it was tender for the rest of the day. I passed on running yesterday and even today was in two minds whether to give it a go.

Was supposed to be 10 miles including 5 at PMP so I decided to give it a couple of miles warmup and decide from there whether to up the pace or make it an easy run. I was running easily to try and loosen out the legs and it was working reasonably well when I was set upon by a couple of the usual bandits - two Jack Russell's - who lay in wait on a regular basis. It was the twisting around to keep them in front of me that did the achilles as when I picked up the running the pain was much worse. I persisted for another half mile before finally stopping to see could I stretch or work it back into some kind of life but finally gave up and trudged back to the car.

It is painful to walk on so lots of TLC (or RICE:)) for at least 4 days from here and we will see what the weekend brings. I had thought about a local 5miler on Saturday but it is looking very doubtful now. I am due to start a couple of weeks holiday this week and was looking forward to 2 weeks really good training to get Dublin back on track but if this doesn't clear up it will knock that on the head.

I wouldn't mind but, thinking about my performance on Sunday, the 3:30 target for Dublin was beginning to look a stretch as McMillan was giving the result as a 3:41 equivalent. I had hoped to consolidate my thinking with another 1:45, or even 1:40, in the Clonmel half marathon on Sunday week - now I might not even make the start line:mad:.

I must stop booking races, first Cork, cancelled by surgery, now Clonmel looks dodgy - and I have Dublin confirmed as well

.

Injury is part of the package, but I would not be the best patient, so I can see the next few days being a struggle - and the next time I meet those bandits!!!!

(I like dogs, have them myself, but these two - hope they have health insurance!!:D)

RubyK · 12-08-2011 9:36am

Ah crap, that's really unfortunate

Hope you'll be ok!

slowsteady · 30-08-2011 7:46pm

Been staying away from here for the past couple of weeks to stop this being a whinge rather than a log.

Left achilles did not improve so pulled on Clonmel half and as I was on holiday for two weeks threw the runners to the back of the wardrobe and just enjoyed time with the kids.

Concentrated on trying out the shoulder with a bit of vigorous gardening as it was now closer to a jungle than a rural idyll (as they say in the estate agents). Result is that while the shoulder is no worse than before the operation it is certainly no better. Not decided whether to go to the physio or the medics next?

Suffering severe running withdrawal last week but resisted putting on the runners but was weakening by Friday. However, was doing a bit of sweeping the drive and jarred the other achilles:eek:, quite how I did it I'm not sure but spent the rest of the day hobbling (and cursing:o) - kids were less than impressed!

That put paid to running the weekend but finally went out last night to test the waters. Ran every step as if I was on eggshells, almost tiptoed around my usual loop, feeling every stride. Concentrating on every impact I felt twinges everwhere, heels, arches, calves, hams, quads, knees, hips, you name it I felt it at one point or other - even the shoulder joined in at one stage - feeling left out I suppose:)

I think it was all mental stuff. Yes, I hadn't been out for a couple of weeks, but I was only trotting around - put the watch on Heartrate so that I wouldn't be conscious of time and it stayed at 135 most of the time. 24 hours on I have a stiff left calf, right hamstring and, more worryingly, right achilles. Working late so passing tonight and might go out tomorrow if twinges subside.

Whole training plan out the window for now and will take each day as it comes.

RubyK · 31-08-2011 9:36am

Sorry that you are still having problems with injuries, your head must be melted at this stage. Are you seeing a physio?

slowsteady · 11-09-2011 1:30pm

RubyK wrote: »

Sorry that you are still having problems with injuries, your head must be melted at this stage. Are you seeing a physio?

Been to the physio a couple of times, stiff and tender was the verdict, rest and you'll be fine was the advice - hasn't really worked. The left achilles is constantly sore just walking around.

Head wrecked from not running and trying to behave so, having given the legs another 10 days rest after a previous three weeks r&r, I decided to go out and see could I work the stiffness out of the legs.

A possible issue is that my runners have 550 miles on the clock so have pulled out my new spare pair of the same make. Shouldn't be a particular issue but I'd try anything different at present.

Caution has been the guiding principle.

Thursday. 2.7 miles @ 9:21 pace, left achilles was very stiff but got around and iced and worked it afterwards.

Friday. Very stiff again that morning but it worked looser during the day so went out that evening, 5.3 miles @ 8:36, felt a bit better but stiffened up afterwards so more work on the leg.

Saturday. Mid-morning, decided to keep going as a month's rest had not done any good, so another 5.3 miles this time @ 8:56, going as easy as possible so as not to aggravate the leg.

Today. Set the Garmin to 9:23 and did the same 5.3 mile loop. Felt better than past few days but far from right.

Big fear is that I know I am running to protect the left calf/achilles and that this might lead to other issues, generally stiff but to be expected after a month lay-off. Plan is to keep doing little and often and see where we are a week from now.

slowsteady · 12-09-2011 10:20pm

Glimmer of hope?

After 4 straight days had a notion to go out for a few miles this morning early before work if the legs were OK.

5.45am alarm and a howling gale put me off:p. In the event it probably would have been OK as while windy it was warm and dry.

Day at work and the legs felt reasonably good, tender and sore but not too stiff and, most important, the left achilles was only tender - result of yesterday's TLC?

Got home this evening and out for usual 5.3 miles on a 'run by feel' pace. It felt OK so pushed a liitle and was happy to get back in 8:21 pace.

Calves are feeling it a bit, which is good, little action for a month. Will keep this up for the week and review.

3:30 marathon now is about as likely as Ireland being in Auckland on Oct 23rd:D. Will settle for being on the start line.

Middle-Aged Ambitions

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