Intruder Alarm Questions and Answers

Stoner · 05-02-2009 1:51pm

Ok I killed threads that took many hours to type, they were in part informative reading, but they had too much bite IMHO.

Debate is great, this is a forum for both the expert and someone with DIY questions.

I'm locking the thread as per the request.

I know that if I asked a question on a forum and saw it develop into a pi--ing contest I don't think I'd be back.

But this is what we are I guess (me included). We need to be civil and helpful.

Please keep posting guys your input helps a lot of people. Thank you.

delly · 05-02-2009 2:25pm

Moved to the land of amps and watts. Have a happy snowday :pac:

John Mason · 05-02-2009 4:01pm

The alarm on one of doors doesnt go off when you open the door but it does when you close it.

Is this something i need to an electrican in for or is it something simple that i can fix myself

thanks

sig226 · 05-02-2009 5:26pm

The panel I would recommend would be thr HKC 8/12.

I have a new HKC and find it great.
It was simple enough to fit although I got a bit of assistance, but I would be quite happy to tackle the next one on my own.

KoolKid · 05-02-2009 5:48pm

fold2john wrote: »

The panel I would recommend would be thr HKC 8/12.

Limited to 12 zones vs 60+ on Astec Fusion
Much more features on the Fusion for the same price.
The HKC 8/12 I would compare to the CS350 great for its time but its now time to move on.

fold2john wrote: »

His company had been installing Astec for a number of years. My heart is broken repairing them. Even the most simple of jobs, like changing a battery takes at least twice as long, as you also have to remove the PCB to get at the battery.

If your heart is broken repairing his alarms maybe you should blame him & not the Astec panel for the problems.

fold2john wrote: »

Which is only a 2amp battery by the way. Where most panels will accomadate a 7 amp.

Irrelevant!! Astecs current consumption is a lot lower that most.
Do the maths & you will see that the 2amp holds up sufficiantly to comply with EN50131. As for changing the battery??? 10 minutes as opposed to 5 for €100 is still good value.

fold2john wrote: »

Most wholesalers in Dublin dont even stock it anymore, that alone must tell you something.

Yes it tells me that we are all getting a better price by dealing with Astec direct.

KoolKid · 05-02-2009 5:50pm

Sounds like the contact is fautly.
Easy enough to change. Buy a replacement & rewire colour for colour & you should be fine.
If you need any help with it PM me.

fred funk }{ · 05-02-2009 6:08pm

fold2john wrote: »

The panel I would recommend would be thr HKC 8/12.

I took over all the alarm work from an electrical contractor who did not want to get a license from the PSA. His company had been installing Astec for a number of years. My heart is broken repairing them. Even the most simple of jobs, like changing a battery takes at least twice as long, as you also have to remove the PCB to get at the battery.Which is only a 2amp battery by the way. Where most panels will accomadate a 7 amp.

Most wholesalers in Dublin dont even stock it anymore, that alone must tell you something.

I used 120 Aritech CS250 panels on a project two years ago as they were all monitored systems and as the 250 has the digi on board it was cost effective. It was a mistake. The maintenece on them is much higher than a HKC panel, so in the end it has cost me I reckon.

In one wholsaler I use I have been told that the 8/12 outsells the 250 by 100 to 1. They dont stock Astec!!!!

The HKC is a good panel but at this stage its very outdated and from what I hear there's a newer version coming soon so don't be to quick buying one.

There was a problem a few years ago with the Astec MC sensors they were showing up faulty alot but they fixed that problem then and they are a good reliable system now, perfect for a DIY install for someone with a bit of know-how.
I can change a battery in an Astec system in about one minute, very easy. If you have trouble doing that it might explain why you have trouble with repairing them and BTW a 2.1 amp battery is more than sufficiant for their panels.

I used 120 Aritech CS250 panels on a project two years ago as they were all monitored systems and as the 250 has the digi on board it was cost effective. It was a mistake. The maintenece on them is much higher than a HKC panel, so in the end it has cost me I reckon.

In one wholsaler I use I have been told that the 8/12 outsells the 250 by 100 to 1. They dont stock Astec!!!!

I mainly use the CS250 panels and find them extremely reliable. I have literally put in hundreds at this stage in fact we were installing them before any other company to test them before they went into full production. I have never had a faulty panel back. I also find them much easier to install/programme than HCH. They do have their limitations like maximum of 24 zones, only eight analyzed zones but by and large they are one of the best out there.
Their wireless stuff is the best wireless out there IMO albeit expensive but you pay for what you get.

Don't get me wrong the HKC is a good panel but I think the Aritech is better. Maybe installers like it better because you don't have to duel the resistors.

northdublin · 05-02-2009 9:37pm

is it wired or wirefree? if its wirefree the sensor could have been learned into the panel in the normally open instaed of the normally closed.

DublinDilbert · 05-02-2009 10:30pm

pink fluffy bunny wrote: »

The alarm on one of doors doesnt go off when you open the door but it does when you close it.

Is this something i need to an electrican in for or is it something simple that i can fix myself

thanks

Sounds like the inertia sensor is working, but the reed switch is not. It could be that the reed switch has gone fault (not sure if this ever happens) or was never wired up.

Can you post a pic of the sensor here, it might give us a better idea.

KoolKid · 06-02-2009 11:37am

northdublin wrote: »

is it wired or wirefree? if its wirefree the sensor could have been learned into the panel in the normally open instaed of the normally closed.

What are you referring to here??

Why would an alarm zone on a door be programmed normally open???

The contact is faulty is the most likely problem

northdublin · 06-02-2009 10:46pm

koolkid wrote: »

What are you referring to here??
Why would an alarm zone on a door be programmed normally open???
The contact is faulty is the most likely problem

with some of the wirefree panels,specifically ge panels if the sensor is learned in with the magnet beside it or the dil switches are in the wrong position it shows normally open as opposed to normally closed once the sensord is leaned into the panel. ive no idea why they do it but it caught me out once or twice.

FKH · 07-02-2009 12:00am

Would anyone know how to reset the service code 77 on an Astec 49 Alarm. The regular manual is no help. I have the engineer code and the screen says "access" and "engineer" when I enter it but I don't know what to do then.

fred funk }{ · 07-02-2009 1:07am

If you enter engineer mode then press 'clear 99' this will bring you back out of engineer and the '77' messsage will be gone.

KoolKid · 07-02-2009 7:35am

northdublin wrote: »

it caught me out once or twice.

Really???:eek: An open zone is something fairly obvious.:eek:
Anyway we're getting a bit off topic. From what I can gather the OP is referring to a fault that has just arose. As I stated already its most likely to be a faulty contact or MC.

John Mason · 08-02-2009 5:14pm

its my back door,

the alarm system has been in for about 5 years

the sensor is on the top of the door

i dont think it is a wireless system, as the electrican put wires in when the house was rewired

FKH · 08-02-2009 9:56pm

That didn't seem to work I'm afraid.

I enter fn then 0 and type in my code and then screen says "access" on left hand side and "engineer" in top right. I presume this is the engineer screen?

Is there any other manual for this alarm which explains everything?

fred funk }{ · 08-02-2009 10:02pm

FKH wrote: »

That didn't seem to work I'm afraid.

I enter fn then 0 and type in my code and then screen says "access" on left hand side and "engineer" in top right. I presume this is the engineer screen?

Is there any other manual for this alarm which explains everything?

You are not in the engineer menu. The 'strict EN50131' option is enabled in the programming which means that the user code must be entered before the engineer code. You need the engineer code I'm afraid. The user manual wont help you without the Eng. code.

NewRSoul · 10-02-2009 2:52pm

Hi,

As there seems to be a few knowledgeable people on here - Can the CS-250 and it's on board dialler do SIA signalling into a Monitoring Centre?

I'v read the book I've got (looks really old though) and it looks like you need to blow a chip, but it does look like ContactID or Fast Format only.

Thanks in advance!

fold2john · 10-02-2009 4:11pm

in response to fred funk. what a load of bull. first of all i did'nt say i was having trouble repairing astec panels. i said my heart was broken repairing the worthless piece of crap. secondly, i seriously doubt you could change your shirt in 1 minute judging by some of the amatuerish comments i have seen your names attached to. and thirdly its called dual end of line and it is optional on the HKC panel as is non eol and single eol.

before you start pointing people in the direction of astec and aritech, explain to them why most wholesalers dont stock astec and why hkc outsells aritech by such a wide margin.

KoolKid · 10-02-2009 5:39pm

fold2john wrote: »

in response to fred funk. what a load of bull. first of all i did'nt say i was having trouble repairing astec panels. i said my heart was broken repairing the worthless piece of crap. secondly, i seriously doubt you could change your shirt in 1 minute judging by some of the amatuerish comments i have seen your names attached to. and thirdly its called dual end of line and it is optional on the HKC panel as is non eol and single eol.

Sorry!!! Fold2john,
Are you a PSA & NSAI licenced installer?
That sort of response does not show you to be any way competant.
You are certinly not the type of person I would let into my house to do any work, let alone someone I would entrust with the security of my property. As I have already said if you are having that much trouble with Astec panels then either you & they guy who installed them before you (who is not a certified installer I might add) is doing something wrong.
The Astec Panel conforms to EN50131 as does HKC & Aritech & others.
Therefore the problems you are having are cause by either your lack of understanding of how this system works or simply bad workmanship.
To say one is a piece of crap just because your heart is broken fixing other peoples mistakes shows you to be very childish. If you are going to debate something at least put up a valid argument.

fold2john wrote: »

Hkc outsells aritech by such a wide margin.

Can you please post figures from all major suppliers in the country to back up this claim..
HKCs features are now fast becoming outdated in comparision to the SigNet & Fusion panels.
Also the reason a lot of wholesalers (not most!!) dont stock Astec is because a lot of installers buy direct from Astec.
This is a situation the wholesalers caused for themselves by not getting involved with Astec from the start.

fold2john wrote: »

its called dual end of line and it is optional on the HKC panel as is non eol and single eol.

Here again you have shown you inexperience , NON EOL would not be an option to comply with EN50131.
John I really wonder what your agenda is ?
You register here & make 3 posts 2 Rants & 1 more concerned about who I am. Yet you still havn't PMed me to ask.

fred funk }{ · 10-02-2009 6:37pm

NewRSoul wrote: »

Hi,

As there seems to be a few knowledgeable people on here - Can the CS-250 and it's on board dialler do SIA signalling into a Monitoring Centre?

I'v read the book I've got (looks really old though) and it looks like you need to blow a chip, but it does look like ContactID or Fast Format only.

Thanks in advance!

Yes the CS250 can use SIA. If your panel is a very old one send me a PM and I can flash it for you. Where abouts are you?

fred funk }{ · 10-02-2009 7:22pm

first of all i did'nt say i was having trouble repairing astec panels. i said my heart was broken repairing the worthless piece of crap

Anybody that has trouble removing two screws from a PCB to replace a battery is clearly incompetent and shouldn't be let near anything of an electrical nature never mind an alarm system.

i seriously doubt you could change your shirt in 1 minute judging by some of the amatuerish comments i have seen your names attached to

Please explain. Any contributions I have made in these forums is in good faith and is from my experience in the industry.

and thirdly its called dual end of line and it is optional on the HKC panel as is non eol and single eol.

I can assure you I know what it means. When I said "you don't have to Dual the resistors" I shortened the sentence instead of "you don't have to Dual end of line the resistors" Understand now?

before you start pointing people in the direction of astec and aritech, explain to them why most wholesalers dont stock astec and why hkc outsells aritech by such a wide margin.

As koolkid said, most people buy direct from Astec so most wholesalers don't stock them. A good indication of how many systems each manufactures has installed is by their Bell-boxes on houses/businesses. You will find that Astec has a lot.

Ferny · 11-02-2009 12:15pm

Guys, hope someone can help.

I bought a house 12yo approx 3 years ago , it was already fitted with an alarm, The alarm constantly went off so I do not set it anymore. I tightened thealarm covers in the rooms as was told that in hot weather the plastic swells but it didn't fix the problem. I was also told that i could not get anyone to repair it as the engineers code was needed for this - is this true?

Can anyone recommend a fix for this.

Also wanted to get aN SMS alert fitted so that i could be alerted when it does go off - any ideas

KoolKid · 11-02-2009 12:46pm

If the system is 12 years old its more than likely some faulty sensors\contacts.
You can get any company to look at this alarm for you. Any competant engineer would be able to access the system.
Upgrading the system would enable you to set up text alerts. The new Astec Fusion would be the ideal system here. PM me your details if you would like to get someone to look at it for you

Ferny · 11-02-2009 1:54pm

Cheers for that, have PM'd you my details...

KoolKid · 11-02-2009 5:02pm

Got that. We'll get that sorted for you.

fold2john · 11-02-2009 5:24pm

I wont reply to most of the junk you have written. Just 2 things. Firstly, check your standards if you have a copy that is. Non EOL does conform to EN.

Secondly if you are so wise and such a godsend to the industry, why do you have so much time on your hands to spend on message boards???

KoolKid · 11-02-2009 8:42pm

fold2john wrote: »

I wont reply to most of the junk you have written.

Including the question as to whether you are a licenced installer

fold2john wrote: »

check your standards Non EOL does conform to EN.

I am starting to think you are not even an installer ,full stop.
Wiring a zone nol eol means, there is a possibility that any inertias on that zone will not work. It also means that a short circut on that zone will leave points of entry unsecured & will go undetected & not register a fault.Kindly explain how you feel that is up to any sort of standard. If you feel that is acceptable then you are also incompetant.

fold2john wrote: »

if you are so wise and such a godsend to the industry, why do you have so much time on your hands to spend on message boards???

Its called mobile broadband :P . Can you kindly back up that statement
with how many hours I have spent here this week??

John in the few posts you have made since registering here you have not made one bit of sense. You have shown yourself to have little or no understanding of the industry, little or no understanding of the working of a security system and totally the wrong manner for work within the service industry in general.
You wish to argue about everything , but when challanged on any point you refuse to reply. Either debate or your point, if you can or go away & leave it to the people who know what they are talking about.

Stoner · 12-02-2009 12:34am

Lets keep the sticky clear of flames please lads, it looks like one could start here soon, so please don't let it happen.

def345 · 12-02-2009 1:05pm

Hi,

I have a aritech cs350.
The battery was low, and I didn't replace it, and when I did there was a fuse problem. End result, now the keypads are not showing anything. No power light or display although they're showing 12V using a multimeter.
I'm pretty sure I've fried the panel, so was thinking of replacing it, but using the current sensors and bell and wiring.
I was wondering if anyone knows which panel would be compatible,
I'm thinking of either

a) Aritech CS250M Control Panel
b) HKC SW812 Secure Watch Panel

Obviously I'll be more careful installing this one

Thanks for any help,

Def

KoolKid · 12-02-2009 1:16pm

Either will do but more up to date systems would be The Astec Fusion & The Europlex Signet. The fusion also has the option of Text dialling & is much more flexible & future proof.
On the higher end of the Signet panel you have the option of IP connection to give you access from any web browser or your mobile.
The HKC is very dated & this stage & you are really just replacing like with like. Its a bit like replacing an old mobile phone & getting no new features.

def345 · 12-02-2009 4:31pm

Thanks Koolkid,
Do you know how much more the Astec Fusion/Europlex Signet costs approx?
I'd never really considered extra features, but I can see how they might be handy.

Cadzer · 12-02-2009 4:53pm

koolkid wrote: »

Either will do but more up to date systems would be The Astec Fusion & The Europlex Signet. The fusion also has the option of Text dialling & is much more flexible & future proof.
On the higher end of the Signet panel you have the option of IP connection to give you access from any web browser or your mobile.
The HKC is very dated & this stage & you are really just replacing like with like. Its a bit like replacing an old mobile phone & getting no new features.

I have to disagree. The HKC panel 8/12 is alot easier to install. You can also get a Text dialler to i think its cheaper to but could be wrong.

Cadzer · 12-02-2009 5:10pm

koolkid wrote: »

Wiring a zone nol eol means, there is a possibility that any inertias on that zone will not work. It also means that a short circut on that zone will leave points of entry unsecured & will go undetected & not register a fault.

Having a zone in NOL has no bearing what so ever on inertia sensors not working.

Wiring in dual end of line has more chance of false activation due to crosstalk on the line , Mains or Data chatter.

Most panel work on a 5v alarm loop. 0v closed - 5 volts open in NOL

In Dol the zones closed voltage is 2.5v due to the 4k7 resistor.
this voltage can in crease due to cross talk and faulse actviate.

KoolKid · 12-02-2009 6:03pm

Cadzer wrote: »

Having a zone in NOL has no bearing what so ever on inertia sensors not working.

I hope you havn,t installed any CS250s with inertias so!!!
You never mentiond about a fault due to a short going unnoticed

Anyway as Stoner requested lets keep the stickey clear.
If you wish to debate your logic for not using resistors I'd be delighted to hear the reasoning in a new thread.

KoolKid · 12-02-2009 6:13pm

Installation wise its pretty much the same as any other panel.
Text dialler is available for the HKC the same as the Fusion, you do not get it free.
The Fusion has much more features for the same price & its more flexible for future upgrades etc.
I'm not saying the HKC is not a good panel, just its a bit dated & you can get more features for the same price.

Delly can we move this to electrical?

Cadzer · 12-02-2009 6:19pm

koolkid wrote: »

Installation wise its pretty much the same as any other panel.
Text dialler is available for the HKC the same as the Fusion, you do not get it free.
The Fusion has much more features for the same price & its more flexible for future upgrades etc.
I'm not saying the HKC is not a good panel, just its a bit dated & you can get more features for the same price.

Delly can we move this to electrical?

I have never used the Fusion panel what featurres does this panel have that the HKC doesnt?

Amount of Zones , Point ID etc? Voice dialler? No of keypads etc?

KoolKid · 12-02-2009 6:37pm

Expandable to 80 zones at the moment
Plus
1 interface card gives up to 30 2 wire PiRs
Global or Astec 2 wire bells
Global or Astec 2 wire zones
Text & Central Station Reporting
Upload/Download
Direct connect to PC
Real time resistence display for all zones
4 Line RKP Display
4 User programmable quick set/navigational keys.
IP Access on the way
I could go on but why not get yourself a panel to work on & see for yourself or maybe go along to one of thier training sessions.

KoolKid · 13-02-2009 1:39pm

foxirl wrote: »

koolkid has been a great help to me so far. Thanks for the Astec number

I called then and they pointed me to a place in limerick that sells their stuff.

Got quoted 245 ex vat for a 63DV or a 43DV panel with keypad and internal and external sounders so that seems quite good. I know the sensors and PIRs will add more on but still quite a savings

This seems to be a wired system though.Does anyone know if you can add card to it so it can interact with wireless PIRs or do Astec do a a seperate Wireless system.

Astec do not do any wireless equipment at the moment, but you can add global wireless devices using the Aritech Quick Bridge reciever

jamesbond · 15-02-2009 5:24pm

upgrade to a hkc pan el with the bell and fit a couple of motion sensors tou can put a gsm onboard and not use the phoneline at all,
mon 180 per year to phonewatch

hope this helps:o

dcom · 16-02-2009 12:20am

Make sure you get a system that has a voice dialler rather than a texting system.

We had the text system set up fora while but the problem we found was that it sent texts to all the numbers we had listed as contacts when the alarm was activated.

Then it would send them all another text to say what zone and again when the alarm was re-set.

We had 5 contact numbers so basically it sent 15 texts every time we had an activation and it was costing a fortune.

In my opinion the voice dialler is much better and more economical because it rings the lited numbers until somebody answers, so only costs the price of one call...

fishdog · 16-02-2009 9:38am

upgrade to a hkc pan el with the bell

Yes the HKC is a good system and an external bellbox makes the system much more secure. Many alarms are installed without this and I feel this is often a mistake.

can put a gsm onboard

+1. They are getting cheaper all the time and are very simple to install.

Make sure you get a system that has a voice dialler rather than a texting system.

+ 1. Although your alarm should not be activating often!

KoolKid · 23-02-2009 2:18pm

jamesbond wrote: »

upgrade to a hkc pan el with the bell and fit a couple of motion sensors tou can put a gsm onboard and not use the phoneline at all,
mon 180 per year to phonewatch

hope this helps:o

A better option than HKC would be the Astec Fusion or The Europlex Fusion. Monitoring could be done for a lot less than €180 per year using a voice or text dialler

Ferny · 25-02-2009 10:06am

Koolkid... thanks a million for calling out.... alarm working like a dream since you worked on it... really appreciate it and great value too.. will definitely recommend you to anyone i know.. Cheers

KoolKid · 25-02-2009 3:35pm

Your welcome., Anytime

mark2009 · 26-02-2009 6:42pm

Hi,

My alarm says "14 Call Engineer". What does that mean?? How do I fix it??

Thanks in advance!

A-Trak · 26-02-2009 6:46pm

Call 14 engineers?

Sorry.

mark2009 · 26-02-2009 6:55pm

Cadzer · 26-02-2009 6:56pm

What make of alarm do you have?
It sounds like the panel is due a service and the installer put in a message!

Mr. Presentable · 26-02-2009 6:59pm

A quick search found this:

Intruder Alarm Questions and Answers

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