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Running Diesel cars on Vegatable Oil?

135

Comments

  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    To the people who were on this thread over a year ago - how have you all benn getting on mixing vegetable oil with diesel etc


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,102 ✭✭✭Neil_Sedaka


    Yeah, would love to know too. How ye getting on?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 127 ✭✭banaman


    Been reading your posts with a bit of dismay. You're all assuming that bio-diesels are environmentally sound BUT you have to grow and refine the fuel first.

    Am in Scotland on holiday and found this in one of the reputable papers here,

    http://news.scotsman.com/scotland.cfm?id=914902007.

    How much can Ireland grow sustainably?

    After all there's no point having cleaner emissions to save the environment if you wreck said environment growing the stuff in the first place.
    How much fertilizers, weed-killers etc does it take per ton of rape-seed?
    How much energy does it take to produce a litre of fuel?

    I know a guy who used to be in the sugar production/refining industry and he says that Brazil puts more energy into growing and refining ethanol from sugar cane than you get from it.

    Sugar cane has a much higher sugar content than beet so it would be even less efficient to try to get ethanol from sugar beet - and ethanol is at best a petrol additive NOT an alternative.

    It suits the oil companies to use ethanol/petrol and bio-diesel rather than look for real alternatives.

    Watch "who killed the electric car?"

    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0489037/


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,016 ✭✭✭✭vibe666


    banaman wrote:
    Been reading your posts with a bit of dismay. You're all assuming that bio-diesels are environmentally sound BUT you have to grow and refine the fuel first.
    if there is anyone posting here who is noble enough to be doing this solely for the environment then fair play to them, but i think it's a pretty safe bet to assume most of the poeple here are doing this (or at least talking about it) primarily to save money.

    personally, if i was going headlong into this thing (i still haven't got off my hole to actually do anything about it, and currently I don't have thye space to do so) i would be using WVO from chippers etc. and filtering and converting it to bio rather than permanently using SVO so the source of the oil (in as far as the environment is concerned) is less of an issue, if anything im doing the environment a favour by not having all that WVO put back into the environment as is.

    incidentally, whilst we're digging up the thread that won't die ;) 'Corrigan Knows Food' Tuesdays 8:30pm (RTE1) has Richard Corrigan driving round talking about foody type stuff in a rapeseed oil powered 4x4. worth a look if you're interested in this sort of stuff. the last episode had a bit in it about rapeseed oil production and uses.


  • Registered Users Posts: 458 ✭✭N8




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,016 ✭✭✭✭vibe666


    half price diesel? yes please! :rolleyes:

    N8, if you'd read half the posts in this thread you wouldn't have wasted your time posting pointless links because you think you know what you're talking about.

    i doubt anyone here is thinking of importing biodiesel from colombia or planting 50 hectares of rape so they can feel good about saving the world.

    all people want to do is get something cheaper than it already is and pay a little less in taxes whilst feeling they got one up on the government by either converting their own waste oil into fuel rather than pouring it down a sink somewhere to eventually choke swans and ducks, or buy veg oil cheap in lidl and use it in their taxi's to save a few euro.

    most people are far too busy worrying about themselves and trying to make a couple of extra euro for themselves to worry about what world superpowers are doing on the other side of the planet.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 219 ✭✭dbar


    Thats where I am at, the saving money bit.
    Heres my plan, I have brought a vintage Landrover in from the UK, classed vintage with a modern body on it. (Revenue go by the chassis) 50 Euro to register and 42 Euro tax per year. It has got a GMC 6.2 V8 diesel in it which I plan to convert to veg oil.
    Reason for the 6.2 is that the yanks followed a different line of development on the diesels, instead of common rail, electronics, they just made them simple and big. Its a normally asperated engine, so perfect for conversion. Very robust and realible. Rated to run for up to a million miles.About 25 mpg if driven sanely.

    Soooo,
    If the plan works I will be driving a decent machine, cost efficient fuel, and best of all 42 euro tax per year. Thats how I am making my silent protest at the rip off taxs we pay here....


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,611 ✭✭✭djmc


    :) Nice one dbar


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 92 ✭✭andy0


    banaman wrote:
    Am in Scotland on holiday and found this in one of the reputable papers here, ...

    All the nonsense about the huge expense of crusher plants and transport costs make it sound like this is a totally new product with huge obstacles in its way.

    Have they never seen cooking oil on a supermarket shelf?

    How did it get there?

    In fact, the crop energy yield is two or three times the amount used to grow it, with a bit of variation depending on whether the straw is burnt


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,016 ✭✭✭✭vibe666


    indeed.

    if it was so expensive to poroduce SVO, then why does vegetable oil cost so much less?

    aaahhhh, government taxes.

    i heard somewhere on the radio last year when fuel prices were going up that half the cost of fuel is tax from the government, so that would (roughly) put SVO and Dino Diesel on and even playing field (when buying in bulk, give or take) so i'm still happy enough that it's the right move for me.

    dbar, do you mind me asking where you found your land rover?

    i've done some (albeit brief) looking around and couldn't find any (on ebay:)).

    i did read that that engine is the one that the US use in hummers, so it can't be all that bad, although someone did mention that it's so powerful that there is a real risk of snapping an axle on the road if you put your foot right down. can't imagine that being too healthy, for you or the car. :D

    sounds like a great idea tho, from a tax point of view. do you know what sort of criteria a vehicle would need to satisfy to be similarly rated tax wise?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 92 ✭✭andy0


    Hi all,
    Am typing this from foggy Berlin.Was just down in a garage to get some diesel.This is rich.Normal Dino diesel is appx 85/90 cents per litre. BIO diesel is 1.18 cents/litre:eek: :eek: :eek: Why this?The green party in colation with Shroders socialists,saw that everyone was switching to bio diesel to save money and indirectly benefit the enviroment.But not the States coffers!! So on went a tax for bio fuels to bring it on par with the rest of the fuels.Plus the production costs are somwhat more,thus making it more expensive to produce.It is now cheaper to use normal diesel than bio diesel.:rolleyes: :rolleyes:
    Mr Cowen ..please take note!Please take note!:rolleyes:

    I was surprised when I read this the other day, as I'd always noticed biodiesel being cheaper in Germany, and wondered if I had missed something.

    This morning in the Ruhr area biodiesel was 104.9 and petrodiesel 112.9 cents


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30 doubledecker


    HI,,, I've only been running my double decker bus on 100% veg. oil for a few weeks.. but 'tis running fine. I installed a two tank system (starting and finishing on diesel/biodiesel) with plenty of heating etc... Have been filtering waste vegetable oil for use, and as the bus is a catering kitchen, I'm lucky enough to be able to use my own WVO. It seems it is not so common in Ireland using Vegetable oil as a fuel, as it is in the UK and abroad, but now i've found this thread.. I may be wrong!!
    I've contacted the customs and revenue,, and my querry's got their heads scratching, but what I got from them was that a user of vegetable oil, SVO or WVO, would have to pay 38 odd cents per litre poured into their tank, payable each 1000 lt. used..
    Has anyone gone down this path,, paying the tax etc..... or got around it anyway, or another plan???
    cheers....
    keep the thread going!!!
    Bryce
    www.doubledecker.ie
    :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 117 ✭✭jobrok1


    Does anybody know if there is somewhere in the Crok city or North Cork county area that supplies BioDiesel???

    I've been checking around but can't find anyone.

    There surely must be a company around the city that does it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30 doubledecker


    jobrok1 wrote:
    Does anybody know if there is somewhere in the Crok city or North Cork county area that supplies BioDiesel???

    I've been checking around but can't find anyone.

    There surely must be a company around the city that does it.


    I also couldn't find anyone in Cork selling biodiesel.....
    I've heard of a few farmers making and using their own biodiesel in the area, but nothing commercial.
    A few places selling PPO, but not biodiesel...
    There's talk of a large biodiesel plant set for Cork harbour,,, couple of years and we might have tons of the stuff here in Cork!:)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 219 ✭✭dbar


    vibe666 wrote:
    indeed.

    if it was so expensive to poroduce SVO, then why does vegetable oil cost so much less?

    aaahhhh, government taxes.

    i heard somewhere on the radio last year when fuel prices were going up that half the cost of fuel is tax from the government, so that would (roughly) put SVO and Dino Diesel on and even playing field (when buying in bulk, give or take) so i'm still happy enough that it's the right move for me.

    dbar, do you mind me asking where you found your land rover?

    i've done some (albeit brief) looking around and couldn't find any (on ebay:)).

    i did read that that engine is the one that the US use in hummers, so it can't be all that bad, although someone did mention that it's so powerful that there is a real risk of snapping an axle on the road if you put your foot right down. can't imagine that being too healthy, for you or the car. :D

    sounds like a great idea tho, from a tax point of view. do you know what sort of criteria a vehicle would need to satisfy to be similarly rated tax wise?

    Sorry for the slow reply, on holidays!
    Yeah, it took me a long time to find it in the UK on Ebay. The landrover transmission can handle it as the Landrover petrol V8 has roughly the same output. The landrovers are an acquired taste, not to everyones liking. I have seen Vintage Rangerovers with retrofitted diesels, perfect for the job as well.
    Basically to qualify for vintage the year of manufacture on the V5 (UK taxbook) must be over 30 yrs old and the chassis number must match the number on the V5. Thats basically it.
    If you are coming to the cork area at any stage, PM me and Id be happy to take you for a spin!


  • Registered Users Posts: 233 ✭✭maniac101


    Regarding sourcing biodiesel in Cork, there's a petrol station in Ballyhay just south of Charleville who sell bioethanol, I'm not sure if they sell biodiesel though.

    There's a company outside Bandon called GRO Oil who produce bio-diesel from rapeseed (www.gro-oil.ie). They’ve a capacity of around a million litres p.a. and much of this, if not all of it, is to be sold to Cork City Council, so I'm not sure if it's available to private road users. Either way, GRO Oil haven't succeeded in getting VAT exemption for their product, so for those of you who are looking to source a cheaper alternative to fossil diesel you'll need to look elsewhere. For those who want to be more friendly to the environment might I suggest a bicycle, because bio-diesel just aint environmentally sustainable at the moment.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 159 ✭✭irishsurfer


    I have done a few podcasts with people at www.worldsurfradio.com involved with bio diesel in US and Ireland.

    Youll find them on the archive at
    http://worldsurf.libsyn.com/


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 303 ✭✭Lazairus


    Just converted my volswagon golf 95 , for 80 euro , and running it on veg oil 69 cents a letre great, !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    no problems . let me know if any body wants to do it , ill advise them ,just mail me (private)


  • Registered Users Posts: 117 ✭✭jobrok1


    Where did you get it done?

    Is the crowd in Riverstick? Future Oils...!!!
    I found a link to their site only yesterday from another post on these forums.

    http://santa.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055082867

    http://www.futureoils.com


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 940 ✭✭✭mikep


    Hi

    I don't know if this is the right place to put this...

    This article is a bit spooky and I had never thought about the effect of growing maize for biofuel rather than food!!:eek:

    http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article18017.htm


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 303 ✭✭Lazairus


    yes it is,

    its actually one guy , hes from kinsale, he sells heat exchangers , and its a good
    exchanger , just check your pump first if its a Lucas , its useless(you need a second tank), Bosch or similar is whats needed , to check what pump you have go to http://www.elsbett.com/ie/online-shop.html , find your car , it will tell you what pump you have ,

    its quiet easy to install , if you cant travel to kinsale, then ring them !>.

    once installed , it runs fine.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 15 JA12


    Anyone who lives in Meath is lucky in this respect.

    Royal Biofuels in Athboy sell biodiesel at 95c pl

    (2nd right on the Oldcastle road)

    Modern diesels and some older models can be run on biodiesel with no modification. Just phase your car in, i.e. fill the tank full with diesel, every 100-200 miles top up the tank with biodiesel.

    After a few fills your car will be runnin on 100% biodiesel.

    J.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2 vavavoom


    Biodiesel in vehicles worked with lower toxic emissions and no alterations are needed to your car I have first hand experience of this from 2 of my friends who use it in south africa , another device called the Fuelstar fuel catalyst is also a product that reduces fuel consumption by createing a longer and more complete burn of the fuel , tin is the main ingredient in the product it does almost the same a what lead did to petrol without the toxic effects as tin is completely non toxic.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,025 ✭✭✭zod


    good video on biofuels here http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=NMB8-8tPuWE


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,220 ✭✭✭✭biko


    McD will start using biofuel in their trucks.
    If they start maybe a lot of others will follow. Worth it's own thread I think.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,467 ✭✭✭bushy...


    vavavoom wrote:
    , another device called the Fuelstar fuel catalyst is also a product that reduces fuel consumption by createing a longer and more complete burn of the fuel , tin is the main ingredient in the product it does almost the same a what lead did to petrol without the toxic effects as tin is completely non toxic.

    Stannosis n a few more ?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 165 ✭✭thebookofbob


    Not sure anyone is still looking at this threat but just to add a spanner to the works, I've been running a 2000 VW Passat TDi PD(115) S on at least 60% oil ( 90% in the summer ). I use Lidl's finest & this has done me the last 3 years ( over 120,000 miles due to commute distance ). The engine is in great shape. I haven't changed a fuel filter in 60K but oil changes are done 9K on the ball ahead of the recommended 10K. In the winter I add a small amount of unleaded if the temp drops low. The car has over 200K miles on the clock. It still hovers around the 50MPG mark if I'm not flooring it. The performance is still as was when I bought it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 123 ✭✭matrixroyal


    Just heard on the news that Motor Tax is likely to go up for all engines over 1.6 litre.
    Thinking of converting my diesel engine to take vegetable oil.

    Would it have any effect on the annual motor tax due ?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 100 ✭✭Taildragon


    AFAICMO, tax concessions (road tax & VRT) are currently available for new vehicles only, unfortunately. An older car which has been converted to run on renewables has to be more environmentally acceptable than a new one, but "policing" that would be a tad too complex for our Revenue....

    Would you consider a smaller car? I run a 1.4 diesel on PPO with 60-70 mpg return.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 546 ✭✭✭abakan


    Ive just read this article on biodiesel, vegtable oil as a fuel,

    but at the bottom I said that in the UK, from July on, users of less than 2500 liters of diodiesel dont have to pay any road tax.

    http://www.wasteless.co.uk/html/veggieconversion.htm

    wonder will that come into Ireland anytime soon


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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Anyone add kerosene to their diesel? My car manual says your supposed to at certain temperatures (sub zero - we dont get it here) but interesting that you can run up to 30% kerosene in the fuel.

    So... is this legal in Ireland?

    Kerosene is thinner than diesel so would be perfect for mixing with veg oil.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Taildragon wrote: »
    Would you consider a smaller car? I run a 1.4 diesel on PPO with 60-70 mpg return.

    is it a common rail?
    What kind of fuel pump if not a common rail?
    Do you have any modifications? Or do you blend fuels?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 546 ✭✭✭abakan


    just heard of a man in the area that runs his VW caddy van on a mix of kerosene and vegtable oil.

    the best bit was that he was once dipped by customs using the same mix and they passed him, he couldn believe it


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    why is it illegal to put kerosene in your car here? do you know what % hew mixed to get the same viscosity as diesel? What year is the van? is it a direct injection? a newer common rail or an old indirect injection?


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOFbsaNeZps


    TOP GEAR Episode with a car running on vegetable oil


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,016 ✭✭✭✭vibe666


    righto ladies and gents, this time next week I'll have a nice 96 Pajero LWB 2.8 DCi to play with and I fully intend to get as much veggie oil in the 100L (christ, I hope I never have to fill it at a pump!) tank as I can. :)

    I'm picking it up next saturday morning and bringing it over here from Liverpool. I've decided to bite the bullet on the VRT rather than risk it so should the time come everything (apart from the veggie side of things) will be above board.

    I'm just wondering if anyone has got any sense out of customs yet about running a car on veggie oil? I know in the UK it's a bit of a mess, but here it still seems like they don't even know what to make of it, never mind actually caring about taxing you for what you put in the tank if it doesn't come from a forecourt pump.

    a couple of questions if anyone knows tho, before I start.

    I've read that veggie oil should give me the same or even slightly better fuel economy than dino diesel as well as a very minor boost in performance and quieter running/no black smoke, but someone told me the other day that they'd seen several reports of proper refined biodiesel giving significantly worse fuel economy for some reason. I can't see how that could be, but I thought I'd ask.

    I plan on getting one of the heat exchanger yokes off Dylan the 'future oils' guy in Cork which should make life easier, but for now at least (in the cold weather we're having) a 30-40% oil and 60% diesel mix to start with the unmodified setup seems to certainly be possible.

    I guess I'll let everybody know how I get on.


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 92,450 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    was an article in New Scientist a while back about palm oil.
    Or rather the destruction of Indonesian bogs to create palm oil plantations. The CO2 released from the bog because the acidic water is no longer preventing decomposition is more than you could save over 150 years of palm oil replacing fossil fuel. Something like 7% of human caused CO2 release is from forest fires and other natural clearances from that area. And because of the high population there it's still below our average of emissions per capita.

    Anyone think we will still be using fossil oil as a primary fuel in 150 years time - 'cos if not then palm oil is worse than it environmentally even before you take into account biodiversity and habitat loss. And the situation over there is like you would expect there. It's against the law to drain the the bogs, but the companies have official permits form the government - do they trump the laws - academic really because by the time it all goes to a tribunal most of the bogs will have gone.


  • Registered Users Posts: 117 ✭✭jobrok1


    I read recently that algae and seaweed is being looked at instead of plant crops to produce biodiesel.

    They have a very high oil content, which is what allows them to float in water.

    They thrive in polluted waters so can be combined with waste treatment plants and can produce up to 30 times more biofuel per acre than standard crops depending on the species used.


    .............................................................................................

    Wikipedia info...

    Algaculture
    Main article: Algaculture
    From 1978 to 1996, the U.S. National Renewable Energy Laboratory experimented with using algae as a biodiesel source in the "Aquatic Species Program".[51] A self-published article by Michael Briggs, at the UNH Biodiesel Group, offers estimates for the realistic replacement of all vehicular fuel with biodiesel by utilizing algae that have a natural oil content greater than 50%, which Briggs suggests can be grown on algae ponds at wastewater treatment plants.[41] This oil-rich algae can then be extracted from the system and processed into biodiesel, with the dried remainder further reprocessed to create ethanol.

    The production of algae to harvest oil for biodiesel has not yet been undertaken on a commercial scale, but feasibility studies have been conducted to arrive at the above yield estimate. In addition to its projected high yield, algaculture — unlike crop-based biofuels — does not entail a decrease in food production, since it requires neither farmland nor fresh water. Some companies[5][6] are pursuing algae bio-reactors for various purposes, including biodiesel production.

    On May 11, 2006 the Aquaflow Bionomic Corporation in Marlborough, New Zealand announced that it had produced its first sample of bio-diesel fuel made from algae found in sewage ponds.[27] Unlike previous attempts, the algae was naturally grown in pond discharge from the Marlborough District Council's sewage treatment works."


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algaculture


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,016 ✭✭✭✭vibe666


    wow, that's pretty impressive, thanks for the post jobrok.

    I wonder if there's anything salt water based that could be used. There's plenty of sea out there that could be useful and there's also the added depth factor to increase yield.


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 92,450 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    Depth isn't much use since the if the algae are using the sunlight properly they will block most of the light. low greenhoused ponds - polyethylene tube partially filled with water and lots of sunlight, might be possible to have a continuous stream with the tube in a very long loop

    and of course the algae take carbon dioxide out of the air.

    Ideally you could use the waste heat, and carbon dioxide of a power plant - possibly some of the ash too.

    But it's very inefficient compared to photovolatic combined with electric cars - just need to invent proper storage batteries


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,016 ✭✭✭✭vibe666


    thanks for the info Capt'n, I knew there'd be something simple like that getting in the way. :(

    more efficient solar panels would help too.

    altho I did see something the other day about infra-red solar panels that would even work at night, except they're having trouble harnessing the energy from them.
    from engadget
    Solar's had a pretty rough time breaking the ~40% efficiency level over the years, but Idaho National Laboratory researchers have apparently developed a nano-antenna array capable of collecting power not from photonic energy as is done today, but from infrared energy that could be harvested in any weather (or even at night). The cell production process is even supposed to be ridiculously cheap compared to making standard silicon photovoltaic cells, but, as always, there's a rub. The grid collects its oscillating IR energy at ten thousand billion times per second, which is proving to be a challenge to the nerds behind the tech, who are working on a way to convert that to the 50-60Hz power that the world uses.
    ah well. maybe one day.


  • Registered Users Posts: 117 ✭✭jobrok1


    But it's very inefficient compared to photovolatic combined with electric cars - just need to invent proper storage batteries


    Yes! PV Electric Cars would be the ideal solution, but until then the world will still need oil-fuel.

    I believe that a company in South Africa has set up a bio-reactor facility to grow algea at an optimum rate, feeding it whatever nutrients it needs and providing it with sufficient light. From what I can gather, it's far quicker and way more efficient that waiting for farmed crops to grow and convert to bio-diesel.

    Even if this method is just used for the short term, ie. 10-20 years, wouldn't it help with a lot of the energy change over problems for a while.
    There would be no need to take food crops away from the food markets.
    And no need for forests to be burned out to clear land for palm oil crops, etc.

    It just sounds like a more sensible approach to producing bio-diesel than what is currently going on.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,016 ✭✭✭✭vibe666


    i firmly believe that there's going to be a lot more ways of skinning the environmental cat in the future. who know's what we'll be driving in 10-20 years time, or what it will be powered by.

    look how far we've come in the last 20 years.

    anyway, I still want my hover car. damn you moller!!!


  • Registered Users Posts: 908 ✭✭✭Overature


    it works all right but you need to rig your car so that you have something to heat the oil up. oil is thicker than diesel and needs to be thinned out if you want to get it to run properly, heating the oil up makes it thinner (turning in to a gas)


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 92,450 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    vibe666 wrote:
    look how far we've come in the last 20 years.
    :confused: very confused

    We have petrol hybrids that get the same milage as diesel engine cars. While modern 21st century petrol engines using atkins or other modified cycle are a few percent more efficient than older petrol engines they still aren't as efficiency as Diesel engines designed in the 19th century.

    As for electric - back in the 19th century the fastest car was electric, first car past 100Km/hr http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Jamais_Contente
    Had they todays lower weight lithium batteries it would probably go even faster. Seriously the only thing stopping the electric car is battery technology.

    All I can see in the last 20 years are more electronics in cars, carberouters being replaced by fuel injection, catalytic convertors all being clamped on the same old engines. The engines get fancy names and makeovers but IIRC the ford Zetec was based on a 20 year old design.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,016 ✭✭✭✭vibe666


    i was being intentionally vague and (kind of) just talking in general terms, not just automotively speaking. mainly because I don't really have an argument that I can back up with any kind of proof. :)

    Capt'n, I'm starting to think you might be my g/f as I can never win an argument with her either. coming at me from all angles with facts and truth and that kind of stuff, I just can't defend against that kind of thing! :(


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 92,450 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    vibe666 wrote: »
    Capt'n, I'm starting to think you might be my g/f as I can never win an argument with her either. coming at me from all angles with facts and truth and that kind of stuff, I just can't defend against that kind of thing! :(
    LOL

    OK, here's a beauty just for you
    Over 200 years ago François Isaac de Rivaz made a car with electric ignition. That's right, hydrogen powered cars have been around since 1807 :D


    http://www.linternaute.com/histoire/jour/evenement/31/1/1/a/53710/0/francois_isaac_de_rivaz_depose_le_brevet_du_moteur_a_explosion.shtml or possibly 1805

    http://www.eoearth.org/article/De_Rivaz,_François_Isaac picture is of a later 1813 model


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,045 ✭✭✭Húrin


    kestrel wrote: »
    is vegetable oil better for the environment? if so, by how much in comparision to unleaded, leaded and diesel? :D i'm so happy

    No, all biofuels are as bad as or worse than petrol for the environment.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,016 ✭✭✭✭vibe666


    Húrin wrote: »
    No, all biofuels are as bad as or worse than petrol for the environment.
    do you have any evidence of this Húrin? there's a lot of information out there pointing to the contrary.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,275 ✭✭✭carveone


    vibe666 wrote: »
    do you have any evidence of this Húrin? there's a lot of information out there pointing to the contrary.

    Perhaps if he quantified the statement. Biofuels as implemented by uninterested, self-serving 1st world governments and their overfed, mindless populace, are bad for the environment ;)

    The EU governments could care less about the planet as long as it looks like it is doing something "green". With the exception of asking their population to make any sacrifices of course. That might not get them elected again.

    Sorry. Capt'n Midnight posted about Indonesia + I've been watching too much Fiorsceal recently = me being incensed.
    who know's what we'll be driving in 10-20 years time, or what it will be powered by

    Horse. Grass :p

    Aside: I loved the quote from a Fiorsceal episode a month or so back about the end of the oil era. "I think the post oil era will be a very nice place to live. For the survivors anyway."


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