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Votes for Irish Citizens Abroad

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Comments

  • #102
    djpbarry
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I can definitely understand that in general terms. But take the economic crash.. People were screaming murder looking for answers.
    Sure, after it happened. It's another great example of Irish politicians feeding the electorate everything they wanted to hear to get elected. Every economist worth their salt was screaming for years that there was something very wrong with the Irish economy, but Bertie said it was grand, so obviously house prices were destined to go up forever and ever and ever.
    Deleted User wrote: »
    The electorate for a long time screamed for change in the political parties, the law and the system of the government because definite flaws were highlighted.
    I don't remember anyone screaming for change when the price of their house was soaring.
    Deleted User wrote: »
    What do we get? Tribunals. Tribunals that have no power to do anything to the individuals involved, but cost a fortune, promises of reform by the parties, and then.... Nothing.
    Look at the final report produced by the Moriarty Tribunal. Now look who's still representing North Tipperary in the Dáil.


  • #103
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    djpbarry wrote: »
    Sure, after it happened. It's another great example of Irish politicians feeding the electorate everything they wanted to hear to get elected. Every economist worth their salt was screaming for years that there was something very wrong with the Irish economy, but Bertie said it was grand, so obviously house prices were destined to go up forever and ever and ever.

    Weren't we supposed to trust our government and the other politicians?
    I don't remember anyone screaming for change when the price of their house was soaring.

    Nope, that's certainly true. We didn't want to believe that it would end, and it was made easier when most of the experts didn't predict anything changing. Sure, there were a few who said otherwise, but they were a minority. And then the banks, who we trusted explicitly, backed up those assurances. Imagine the shock when we realised that banks were businesses and prone to putting profits over its customers.

    But it doesn't change anything. The electorate sought change after the fact. As with any massive cockup some heads should have rolled. Very few did, and usually with their pensions intact. I can't recall of anyone being imprisoned for negligence and yet that's what it was. A betrayal of the electorates trust.
    Look at the final report produced by the Moriarty Tribunal. Now look who's still representing North Tipperary in the Dáil.

    Will do. Give me some time though. I need to get my VPN running again since occasionally official websites get blocked over here.


  • #104
    djpbarry
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Weren't we supposed to trust our government and the other politicians?
    Trust politicians? What?
    Deleted User wrote: »
    Sure, there were a few who said otherwise, but they were a minority.
    I wouldn't really agree with that. I can remember headlines from as far back as 2004 warning about Ireland's over-heated property sector and certainly by the time of the 2007 election, the dissenting voices had grown pretty loud (hence Bertie's now infamous speech).
    Deleted User wrote: »
    I can't recall of anyone being imprisoned for negligence and yet that's what it was.
    Is that enshrined in law?
    Deleted User wrote: »
    Will do. Give me some time though. I need to get my VPN running again since occasionally official websites get blocked over here.
    I'll save you the time. My point was that Michael Lowry has been implicated in all sorts of shenanigans, from tax evasion to dodgy dealings with Denis O'Brien and Ben Dunne. But, he's still topping the polls in Tipperary North.

    Now who's to blame for that? Lowry, or the muppets that keep electing him?


  • #105
    clairefontaine
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,390 ✭✭✭clairefontaine


    djpbarry wrote: »
    Ireland has changed a great deal in my lifetime. I see no reason why it will not change a great deal further over the next few decades.

    Because anyone who would change things emigrates. And uh...they have no political clout.


  • #106
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    djpbarry wrote: »
    Trust politicians? What?

    Haha. True but we kind of did trust the government. (Not individual politicians but the government itself) Sure... There were small mistakes over the years, but something of this scope?
    I'll save you the time. My point was that Michael Lowry has been implicated in all sorts of shenanigans, from tax evasion to dodgy dealings with Denis O'Brien and Ben Dunne. But, he's still topping the polls in Tipperary North.

    Now who's to blame for that? Lowry, or the muppets that keep electing him?

    Both? I'm definitely not seeking to excuse myself or the electorate. We were fools, and quite often we still are. But the point I'm making is that the politicians understand the weaknesses of the electorate, and that's part of the problem with our system (although in all honesty, it's probably the same in all systems). Hence the reason, I said the illusion of being able to change things before. Even you and a few others hold the target in sight, the politicians won't seek to change anything, and the electorate will just forget given time.


  • #107
    pablomakaveli
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,752 ✭✭✭pablomakaveli


    r3nu4l wrote: »

    It's not just about taxes though and as has been pointed out, if you use tax paying as a benchmark then carers and the unemployed should not be allowed to vote either, after all 'they only take from the system...'*


    *Not my actual opinion but the logic follows on...

    I never said taxes were the sole reason why they shouldn't. Just one of several reasons. In fact the vote is important to carers and the unemployed as the who the next government could greatly affect the carers and the chances of the unemployed gaining employment. A person living abroad will have far less of a stake on the outcome.

    Being abroad and keeping up to date on matters is not a justifiable reason to give allow people abroad a vote.


  • #108
    clairefontaine
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,390 ✭✭✭clairefontaine


    Ok so what about all those parents who are forced to emigrate but still have kids in Ireland? Should they not have some say in their children's futures?


  • #109
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,820 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    clairefontaine wrote: »
    Ok so what about all those parents who are forced to emigrate but still have kids in Ireland? Should they not have some say in their children's futures?
    My dad has four children who were forced to emigrate, one in the eighties and three in the last few years. Should he have a say in their futures? Should he get a vote in the UK, the UAE and Australia?


  • #110
    clairefontaine
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,390 ✭✭✭clairefontaine


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    My dad has four children who were forced to emigrate, one in the eighties and three in the last few years. Should he have a say in their futures? Should he get a vote in the UK, the UAE and Australia?

    We're they adults when they emigrated?

    I said CHILDREN.


  • #111
    pablomakaveli
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,752 ✭✭✭pablomakaveli


    clairefontaine wrote: »
    We're they adults when they emigrated?

    I said CHILDREN.

    And how many cases of this actually happen? Most people with kids who emigrate take the kids with them.


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  • #112
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,820 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    clairefontaine wrote: »
    We're they adults when they emigrated?

    I said CHILDREN.
    You don't get a right to a say in your adult children's futures?


  • #113
    clairefontaine
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,390 ✭✭✭clairefontaine


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    You don't get a right to a say in your adult children's futures?

    Nope. It's their life after all.

    Under 18 you do. After that, nope.


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