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Western Rail Corridor (all disused sections)

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    #7562
    eastwest
    Registered Users Posts: 1,610 ✭✭✭eastwest


    Is it true that the bridge at Ballyglunin is actually going to be rebuilt to carry a railway that successive transport ministers have said will never be built?
    If that's true and not just rumour, then somebody in the department of transport is being very flathuilach with our tax euros.


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    #7563
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,345 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    eastwest wrote: »
    Is it true that the bridge at Ballyglunin is actually going to be rebuilt to carry a railway that successive transport ministers have said will never be built?
    If that's true and not just rumour, then somebody in the department of transport is being very flathuilach with our tax euros.
    Open to correction, but as far as I know a new bridge will be designed but not built.

    Bridge is a major issue anyway with the height issue, especially now with the M17 providing direct connectivity to the area, and the ludicrousness of trucks having to divert around a bridge with weeds growing on it.


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    #7564
    eastwest
    Registered Users Posts: 1,610 ✭✭✭eastwest


    marno21 wrote: »
    Open to correction, but as far as I know a new bridge will be designed but not built.

    Bridge is a major issue anyway with the height issue, especially now with the M17 providing direct connectivity to the area, and the ludicrousness of trucks having to divert around a bridge with weeds growing on it.

    Even spending money on designing a bridge that isn't ever going to be built stinks of local political games. Surprised Ross hasn't slapped a few wrists; he would have when he was hurling from the ditch.


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    #7565
    Grandeeod
    Registered Users Posts: 12,076 ✭✭✭✭Grandeeod


    eastwest wrote: »
    Even spending money on designing a bridge that isn't ever going to be built stinks of local political games. Surprised Ross hasn't slapped a few wrists; he would have when he was hurling from the ditch.

    This is an interesting one and as a complete anti WRC type, I'm happy enough if money is set aside for a new bridge design at this location. The Tuam -
    Athenry section isn't the worst part of the WRC beast and while I'm loath to say it, could be a political reopening in the future. So prepare now to save money later. The sad part of this is how the Navan line was decimated by the M3 construction combined with a rediculous piecemeal "tunnel" at Cannistown, while vast chasms were dug out elsewhere. Maybe the cute hoors in the west are learning.:D


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    #7566
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,345 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Grandeeod wrote: »
    This is an interesting one and as a complete anti WRC type, I'm happy enough if money is set aside for a new bridge design at this location. The Tuam -
    Athenry section isn't the worst part of the WRC beast and while I'm loath to say it, could be a political reopening in the future. So prepare now to save money later. The sad part of this is how the Navan line was decimated by the M3 construction combined with a rediculous piecemeal "tunnel" at Cannistown, while vast chasms were dug out elsewhere. Maybe the cute hoors in the west are learning.:D
    What condition is the Navan line in generally?


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    #7567
    murphaph
    Registered Users Posts: 19,018 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    Spent last week in Wales and they put us to shame completely with their heritage railways. Dozens of them it seems, plenty with steam of all shapes and sizes.

    I support bridge planning too as if there is to be any hope of a heritage line then bridges for new road schemes need to be included.

    The WRC or parts thereof could form nice heritage lines with volunteer operation.


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    #7568
    Grandeeod
    Registered Users Posts: 12,076 ✭✭✭✭Grandeeod


    marno21 wrote: »
    What condition is the Navan line in generally?


    Where does one start.:(

    Its butchered just after the extension at Black Bull interchange. A whole approach road embankment over it. Drumree has a solid embankment over it on the link road to Dunshaughlin. But the best bit is actually in Navan where a link road in a cutting knifed the heart out of it. Hard to believe that a Government was actively promoting reopening it, while at the same time ripping the guts out of it.

    The original rail line to Navan is dead.


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    #7569
    eastwest
    Registered Users Posts: 1,610 ✭✭✭eastwest


    Grandeeod wrote: »
    eastwest wrote: »
    Even spending money on designing a bridge that isn't ever going to be built stinks of local political games. Surprised Ross hasn't slapped a few wrists; he would have when he was hurling from the ditch.

    This is an interesting one and as a complete anti WRC type, I'm happy enough if money is set aside for a new bridge design at this location. The Tuam -
    Athenry section isn't the worst part of the WRC beast and while I'm loath to say it, could be a political reopening in the future. So prepare now to save money later. The sad part of this is how the Navan line was decimated by the M3 construction combined with a rediculous piecemeal "tunnel" at Cannistown, while vast chasms were dug out elsewhere. Maybe the cute hoors in the west are learning.:D
    It's still hard to reconcile two facts; previous transport ministers have said pretty unequivocally that the wrc won't be extended, and the present minister (or someone in his department) seems to have signed off on building a bridge to carry this non-existent line.
    At best, this is a scandalous waste of public funds.


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    #7570
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,345 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Grandeeod wrote: »
    Where does one start.:(

    Its butchered just after the extension at Black Bull interchange. A whole approach road embankment over it. Drumree has a solid embankment over it on the link road to Dunshaughlin. But the best bit is actually in Navan where a link road in a cutting knifed the heart out of it. Hard to believe that a Government was actively promoting reopening it, while at the same time ripping the guts out of it.

    The original rail line to Navan is dead.
    Besides the M3 enroachments, I was more asking what kind of running speed the line would be upto if restored? I was more asking if the alignment was worth saving or a potential railway would be better off on a new alignment.


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    #7571
    GM228
    Registered Users Posts: 8,925 ✭✭✭GM228


    marno21 wrote: »
    Open to correction, but as far as I know a new bridge will be designed but not built.

    TII originally stated it would not replace the bridge unless IE requested, my understanding is IE requested the bridge be replaced. Sean Canny stated last October the bridge would be replaced and in January TII confirmed in writing to Galway Co. Co. that a new bridge would be designed and fitted after the upgrade works.


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    #7572
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,345 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    GM228 wrote: »
    TII originally stated it would not replace the bridge unless IE requested, my understanding is IE requested the bridge be replaced. Sean Canny stated last October the bridge would be replaced and in January TII confirmed in writing to Galway Co. Co. that a new bridge would be designed and fitted after the upgrade works.
    Cheers for that.


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    #7573
    Carawaystick
    Registered Users Posts: 8,779 ✭✭✭Carawaystick


    murphaph wrote: »
    Spent last week in Wales and they put us to shame completely with their heritage railways. Dozens of them it seems, plenty with steam of all shapes and sizes.

    I support bridge planning too as if there is to be any hope of a heritage line then bridges for new road schemes need to be included.

    The WRC or parts thereof could form nice heritage lines with volunteer operation.

    Who is "us"
    heritage lines near Berlin ...


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    #7574
    eastwest
    Registered Users Posts: 1,610 ✭✭✭eastwest


    GM228 wrote: »
    marno21 wrote: »
    Open to correction, but as far as I know a new bridge will be designed but not built.

    TII originally stated it would not replace the bridge unless IE requested, my understanding is IE requested the bridge be replaced. Sean Canny stated last October the bridge would be replaced and in January TII confirmed in writing to Galway Co. Co. that a new bridge would be designed and fitted after the upgrade works.
    If that's the case, Canney and Ross should be sacked. Have these guys any other ideas about how to waste taxpayers' money, maybe a lighthouse in Loughrea would be nice, or a big hole in the ground in Dunmore?


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    #7575
    murphaph
    Registered Users Posts: 19,018 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    Carawaystick wrote: »
    Who is "us"
    heritage lines near Berlin ...
    Us is the Irish.

    In Berlin you have http://www.dampflokfreunde-berlin.de restoring and maintaining heavy steam locos, which run on the existing network.

    The countryside surrounding Berlin is unspectacular so not a great deal to be had by creating dedicated heritage lines to run locos that are allowed to run on the existing network anyway.

    Beyond Berlin Germany hosts dozens of preserved railways, some even providing regular commuter trains to locals, such as the Harz Narrow Gauge Railways http://www.hsb-wr.de/en/mehr-erfahren/network/ (If you are a rail fan this must be seen).

    I'm not sure what your point was but if it was to suggest that Ireland's attitude to industrial heritage was anything but very poor it failed.


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    #7576
    Muckyboots
    Closed Accounts Posts: 652 ✭✭✭Muckyboots


    murphaph wrote: »
    Spent last week in Wales and they put us to shame completely with their heritage railways. Dozens of them it seems, plenty with steam of all shapes and sizes.
    I support bridge planning too as if there is to be any hope of a heritage line then bridges for new road schemes need to be included.
    The WRC or parts thereof could form nice heritage lines with volunteer operation.
    Tried famously and unsuccessfully between Tuam & Athenry some years ago. You'd need a team of volunteers to count the total waste of state investment, in what turned out to be nothing more than a vanity project. Building a sustainable amenity, with a proven model, that improves quality of life and supports mental and physical health is what the local communities and local business interests really want. They should have a say in this and not be palmed off by a handful of "well connected" power junkies.


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    #7577
    murphaph
    Registered Users Posts: 19,018 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    The heritage railways in GB most all started very small with volunteers. I had the pleasure of traveling the Welsh Highland, the Ffestiniog and Llangollen railways last week and they all started small and built up over many decades. All started with motivated volunteers assisted later by local authorities who saw the obvious tourism benefits these things bring.

    I would not support the state simply funding a rebuild as a heritage line. It has to start as a grass roots thing and build up with dedicated volunteers steering the ship.


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    #7578
    eastwest
    Registered Users Posts: 1,610 ✭✭✭eastwest


    murphaph wrote: »
    The heritage railways in GB most all started very small with volunteers. I had the pleasure of traveling the Welsh Highland, the Ffestiniog and Llangollen railways last week and they all started small and built up over many decades. All started with motivated volunteers assisted later by local authorities who saw the obvious tourism benefits these things bring.

    I would not support the state simply funding a rebuild as a heritage line. It has to start as a grass roots thing and build up with dedicated volunteers steering the ship.
    Agreed. And there is plenty of capacity on existing lines to accommodate heritage runs; using the heritage argument a a reason to build a railway is illogical.


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    #7579
    murphaph
    Registered Users Posts: 19,018 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    eastwest wrote: »
    Agreed. And there is plenty of capacity on existing lines to accommodate heritage runs; using the heritage argument a a reason to build a railway is illogical.
    Plenty of capacity on the still extant lines through Wales but that didn't stop them from rebuilding multiple heritage lines there. It's a lot to do with the scenery the line runs through. What makes the WRC bad as a mass people mover makes it good as a heritage line (slow, winding path) if funded and run voluntarily.


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    #7580
    Quackster
    Moderators, Regional South Moderators Posts: 5,736 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quackster


    murphaph wrote: »
    Plenty of capacity on the still extant lines through Wales but that didn't stop them from rebuilding multiple heritage lines there. It's a lot to do with the scenery the line runs through. What makes the WRC bad as a mass people mover makes it good as a heritage line (slow, winding path) if funded and run voluntarily.

    Scenery and a large population on their doorstep. Those GB heritage lines have many millions within day-tripping range which makes them worthwhile tourism endeavours.

    WRC has neither the population nor the spectacular scenery IMO. If one was looking at rebuilding a line from scratch as a heritage line, one would look at a line in a prime tourist location like Kenmare or Clifton.


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    #7581
    murphaph
    Registered Users Posts: 19,018 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    Quackster wrote: »
    Scenery and a large population on their doorstep. Those GB heritage lines have many millions within day-tripping range which makes them worthwhile tourism endeavours.

    WRC has neither the population nor the spectacular scenery IMO. If one was looking at rebuilding a line from scratch as a heritage line, one would look at a line in a prime tourist location like Kenmare or Clifton.
    Perhaps you're right. Academic really as we have a shocking record when it comes to preserving any of our industrial heritage and it is unlikely to change any time soon.


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    #7582
    westtip
    Registered Users Posts: 4,282 ✭✭✭westtip


    murphaph wrote: »
    Perhaps you're right. Academic really as we have a shocking record when it comes to preserving any of our industrial heritage and it is unlikely to change any time soon.

    One of the major points about the greenway is to preserve and restore much of the industrial heritage, it is amazing how the stations on many of the converted closed railway to greenway routes in the UK which are now thriving tourist businesses employing local people (yes low tech jobs but jobs none the less) in dead end villages that the world had passed by. Cafes, restaurants, bike hire businesses, employing local people and leading to small start up businesses in premises in victorian railway stations long since given up as dilapidated and gone. If you use the new greenway route for high tech high capacity fibre broadband some of these buildings could also house high tech jobs. It is all about the power of imagination and creativity.


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    #7583
    eastwest
    Registered Users Posts: 1,610 ✭✭✭eastwest


    westtip wrote: »
    murphaph wrote: »
    Perhaps you're right. Academic really as we have a shocking record when it comes to preserving any of our industrial heritage and it is unlikely to change any time soon.

    One of the major points about the greenway is to preserve and restore much of the industrial heritage, it is amazing how the stations on many of the converted closed railway to greenway routes in the UK which are now thriving tourist businesses employing local people (yes low tech jobs but jobs none the less) in dead end villages that the world had passed by. Cafes, restaurants, bike hire businesses, employing local people and leading to small start up businesses in premises in victorian railway stations long since given up as dilapidated and gone. If you use the new greenway route for high tech high capacity fibre broadband some of these buildings could also house high tech jobs. It is all about the power of imagination and creativity.
    But we were promised thrains! What use is tech jobs and tourists and preservin ould buildins?
    We want thrains!


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    #7584
    omah
    Registered Users Posts: 56 ✭✭omah


    Regardless of population size near the greenways, I still think it is well worth everyone's while to develop them as a tourist and local business amenity.


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    #7585
    eastwest
    Registered Users Posts: 1,610 ✭✭✭eastwest


    omah wrote: »
    Regardless of population size near the greenways, I still think it is well worth everyone's while to develop them as a tourist and local business amenity.

    Unfortunately logic like this isn't driving the debate. A number of councillors are locked into a proposal that is going nowhere but which they are afraid to let go of in case those who stick with it might gain electoral advantage.
    As this stage very few politicians opposing the greenway actually believe the train myth, but unless they all jump together, none of them will jump at all.
    Classic stalemate.


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    #7586
    Consonata
    Registered Users Posts: 1,294 ✭✭✭Consonata


    There really should be a separate green-way thread, since that seems to be 90% of the discussion here.


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    #7587
    Stephen15
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭Stephen15


    Consonata wrote: »
    There really should be a separate green-way thread, since that seems to be 90% of the discussion here.

    Already is


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    #7588
    eastwest
    Registered Users Posts: 1,610 ✭✭✭eastwest


    Consonata wrote: »
    There really should be a separate green-way thread, since that seems to be 90% of the discussion here.
    It's more the case that the railway side of the debate has run out of steam. 😆


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    #7589
    westtip
    Registered Users Posts: 4,282 ✭✭✭westtip


    Quackster wrote: »
    Scenery and a large population on their doorstep. Those GB heritage lines have many millions within day-tripping range which makes them worthwhile tourism endeavours.

    WRC has neither the population nor the spectacular scenery IMO. If one was looking at rebuilding a line from scratch as a heritage line, one would look at a line in a prime tourist location like Kenmare or Clifton.

    the issue about scenery was well put by West on Track in a submission to Mayo county council on the current Mayo county plan, just look at this wonderful statement about the scenery in Mayo from West on Track:
    A submission to MCC by pressure group West on Track (Submission No D-MCDP-300 Colman O Raghallaigh on behalf of West on Track ) made the most disparaging comment about the scenery in East Mayo and East Sligo comparing the Sligo Mayo Greenway route with the Great Western Greenway – comment in bold added, Mr, O’Raghallaigh said:

    “there is no comparable scenery along the Claremorris-Collooney route (compared to the Great Western greenway) which remains a rail line in the possession of the state.”

    Whilst it will be no great shakes when it comes to scenery as a greenway route it will be a great local facility and will provide connectivity as part of a much larger national cycle network...but as a heritage rail route or velo rail!! come on folks get serious.


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    #7590
    Quackster
    Moderators, Regional South Moderators Posts: 5,736 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quackster


    westtip wrote: »
    Whilst it will be no great shakes when it comes to scenery as a greenway route it will be a great local facility and will provide connectivity as part of a much larger national cycle network...but as a heritage rail route or velo rail!! come on folks get serious.

    Exactly. The Great Southern Trail in West Limerick is comparable in that regard.


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    #7591
    what_traffic
    Registered Users Posts: 4,869 ✭✭✭what_traffic


    This was posted yesterday
    http://www.galwaycycling.org/
    "
    The Galway Cycling Campaign is welcoming the news that a delegation from Waterford is to meet Galway County Council to get the benefit of their experience with the recently opened “Deise Greenway” in Waterford.
    "


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