Valve developing steam box console

ShadowHearth · 08-01-2013 11:40am

I wonder if valve want to drop it off for this Xmas season to get Xbox and PS choke a bit.

I am really worried a bit. It is really really small. I can't wait for more info!

Andy!! · 08-01-2013 11:42am

hooradiation wrote: »

Are you done trying to be clever now?

Shadowhearth would have to stop posting entirely for this to happen unfortunately. :pac:

I'm keen to see what they show in the next month, but I have a decent P.C. already. Hence I reckon I'd be far more likely to pick up an nVidia Shield than this, unfortunately. And there's little chance of that. :P Unless they really surprise me with something out of the blue. Like a year exclusivity of Half-Life 3 or something. :P

I'm sad, Valve don't seem to be catering to me personally these days :P I don't play very competitive MP so DOTA and CS:GO is out for me, I don't play TF2 either so I have no interest in hats :pac: this last sale was a little crap and this box probably won't interest me that much either. C'mon Valve, cater for the SP/social MP side of your market!

I also doubt very much that that's what the steambox will be shaped like; I'd say the innards will be almost exactly the same but the chassis will look different. That concave curving in looks so cheap. I hope they give the steambox a nice embossed Steam logo on the body

I also think Linux is a good idea, W8 is supposed to be a cluster****, and I prefer opensource software anyways. They'll just have to really push that whole porting thing then they're golden. I mean, the PS3 and WiiU doesn't run off Windows, right? And they're doing just fine. It's just a skin to us at the end of the day.

Azza · 08-01-2013 11:57am

Going by Valve's recent statements on the Windows 8 App Store, it seems their great fear is that Microsoft might lock Windows gaming behind licensing walls, the same way as they do on the Xbox. The App Store may also become a major rival being the default digital content provider on the Windows operating system.

The development of a Linux based console would be part of a quite a long term strategy to counter act this, at least partially. It gives developers on the one hand a reason to develop Linux games now, as it may actually be financially viable to do so. But for Valve each game that's made for Linux is another game they can sell on Steam on the PC and having a robust library of games on Linux gives PC gamers and Steam users more incentive to use Linux. The more Linux users they have making up there customer base the less control Microsoft can exert over them.

Linux will also mean the Steambox or as some have dubbed it the "Gabecube" will cost less than a console with a Windows OS on it. Steam has 41 Linux based games currently most of them indie games. I suspect by launch all Valves back catalogue will be ported. Blizzard said they are porting one of there major titles to Linux this year as well. If Valve could produce Half Life 3 as the Steambox's killer app close to its release they might not be in bad a position at launch, but it still would not be enough to ensure the consoles success. That will obviously be down to 3rd party developers getting on board in the long run.

On the other hand a Windows OS would allow them to launch a console with 2,500 titles at launch and no worries about getting developers to support them. A pretty compelling reason to use it.

Dyr · 08-01-2013 11:58am

Andy!! wrote: »

I also think Linux is a good idea, W8 is supposed to be a cluster****, and I prefer opensource software anyways. They'll just have to really push that whole porting thing then they're golden. I mean, the PS3 and WiiU doesn't run off Windows, right? And they're doing just fine. It's just a skin to us at the end of the day.

"just" push the porting thing could be problematic, take a look at the size of their store. If existing PC games won't play on this without each game being individually ported then I can't see the point. Steam is basically a shop. A shop that has to wait for all its products to be recreated would be dubious

witnessmenow · 08-01-2013 12:08pm

Bambi wrote: »

"just" push the porting thing could be problematic, take a look at the size of their store. If existing PC games won't play on this without each game being individually ported then I can't see the point. Steam is basically a shop. A shop that has to wait for all its products to be recreated would be dubious

If they offer commission free sales for the first 6 months of the steambox if they port to linux, might be enought to entice people.

Also remember that valve have created some of the best games, they will be porting their own games.

Nody · 08-01-2013 12:29pm

Bambi wrote: »

"just" push the porting thing could be problematic, take a look at the size of their store. If existing PC games won't play on this without each game being individually ported then I can't see the point. Steam is basically a shop. A shop that has to wait for all its products to be recreated would be dubious

Or they may simply play it smart and have the box work as a streaming engine from the PC for anything not ported to it using WiFi or similar set up. Porting problem solved; full game catalogue is there and ready to be used.

Dyr · 08-01-2013 12:35pm

witnessmenow wrote: »

If they offer commission free sales for the first 6 months of the steambox if they port to linux, might be enought to entice people.

Also remember that valve have created some of the best games, they will be porting their own games.

The list of valve games may be impressive but it ain't long and it aint updated often, I don't think that is gonna sell this device. Maybe valve are playing a long game here and are willing to accept that this device is only the opening shot in a long campaign

PseudoFamous · 08-01-2013 12:40pm

cherryghost wrote: »

Engadget has had a hands on with Xi3's Piston, the little PC heavily back from Valve. More than likely, this will the steam box.

http://www.engadget.com/2013/01/08/hands-on-with-xi3s-piston-modular-pc-at-ces/

Previously: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/262476727/xi3-help-us-usher-in-the-post-pc-era

https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/projects/321419/posts/322184/image-166395-full.jpg?1349398719

$499 for the cheapest one, CPU/GPU is a T56N, which is not suitable for gaming at all. For $499 you could build something significantly better.

Andy!! · 08-01-2013 12:46pm

Bambi wrote: »

"just" push the porting thing could be problematic, take a look at the size of their store.

It's the responsibility of the individual developer to provide the port, not Valves.

aN.Droid · 08-01-2013 12:56pm

Andy!! wrote: »

It's the responsibility of the individual developer to provide the port, not Valves.

Yes and if they don't then the steambox will not be very impressive will it?

I am sure valve have some sort of agreement with the more popular dev's to port their games and the rest will trickle in afterwards.

My guess is in 2-3 years the majority of games released on steam will be cross platform IF the steambox is succesful.

Andy!! · 08-01-2013 1:30pm

Limericks wrote: »

Yes and if they don't then the steambox will not be very impressive will it?

I am sure valve have some sort of agreement with the more popular dev's to port their games and the rest will trickle in afterwards.

Your statement answered your question.

aN.Droid · 08-01-2013 1:37pm

Andy!! wrote: »

Your statement answered your question.

No it didn't. Having games from the more popular devs won't be enough because that will only account for about 5-10% at most of the steam library.

Not very impressive at all.

Dyr · 08-01-2013 1:45pm

Andy!! wrote: »

It's the responsibility of the individual developer to provide the port, not Valves.

And therein lies the rub, if you're relying on developers to port their games to yet another console then you're taking a big risky, especially with the amount of legacy games available on steam

ShadowHearth · 08-01-2013 2:04pm

Lads, lads, lads. We are talking about steam here. Gabe had all this **** defenetly though out. If he is confident enough to show something to us now, then it means it has some sort of solution already. He won't announce something like this and just go " oh ****, wait, what about games?!?! Back to the drawing board!".

I for once looking forward to Linux steam/gaming development. If they will pull it off I will gladly flip the birdy MS way and wish them good luck with their awesome tiles and touchscreen interface on desktop pcs.

Retr0gamer · 08-01-2013 2:07pm

One thing that is a worry, when have ports of old games ever sold a console? They'll need to make this an all in one box with all the same functionality of a PC to draw consumers.

Magill · 08-01-2013 2:14pm

How many games do consoles usually launch with anyway ? Surely it won't be that hard for valve to rack up enough games that compare to its competitors ? Then im sure it won't take them long to get a sizable catalog of games. Will they have anything to offer in terms of media ? Curious to see what they're actually going to offer... valve aren't stupid, they won't come out with 30 indie games and their own range of games and expect to do well.

Azza · 08-01-2013 2:23pm

A concern I have is would EA back it. After all they are major rival to Valve in the digital distribution business.

mcgovern · 08-01-2013 2:24pm

I see some sites are saying its going to cost $1000.

Azza · 08-01-2013 2:26pm

ShadowHearth wrote:

Lads, lads, lads. We are talking about steam here. Gabe had all this **** defenetly though out.

Well episodic content didn't work out quite as he planned.

ShadowHearth · 08-01-2013 2:41pm

Azza wrote: »

Well episodic content didn't work out quite as he planned.

His bank account begs to differ.

gizmo · 08-01-2013 2:43pm

Azza wrote: »

A concern I have is would EA back it. After all they are major rival to Valve in the digital distribution business.

I'd imagine if it took off they'd happily port Origin and some of their larger and/or future games to Linux. I can't see them suddenly going back to fully supporting Steam though.

Nody · 08-01-2013 2:49pm

gizmo wrote: »

I'd imagine if it took off they'd happily port Origin and some of their larger and/or future games to Linux. I can't see them suddenly going back to fully supporting Steam though.

Was not the problem that Steam don't support Origin? I.e. the Steam contract states it can't be on another online game portal or similar phrasnig which is what Origin is classified as.

Spear · 08-01-2013 2:53pm

Nody wrote: »

Was not the problem that Steam don't support Origin? I.e. the Steam contract states it can't be on another online game portal or similar phrasnig which is what Origin is classified as.

It was regarding the DLC sales, Steam requires games sold on Steam to buy their DLC through Steam as well. EA wanted Origin to be an option for DLC sales for Steam bought games.

Retr0gamer · 08-01-2013 2:55pm

Spear wrote: »

It was regarding the DLC sales, Steam requires games sold on Steam to buy their DLC through Steam as well. EA wanted Origin to be an option for DLC sales for Steam bought games.

Which is the official statement. It's pretty obvious why they really did it.

marco_polo · 08-01-2013 3:02pm

Spear wrote: »

It was regarding the DLC sales, Steam requires games sold on Steam to buy their DLC through Steam as well. EA wanted Origin to be an option for DLC sales for Steam bought games.

Was the problem not that the option to buy the DLC from steam wasn't there, due to EAs in game stores rather than wanting exclusive rights for steam bought games.

Falthyron · 08-01-2013 3:22pm

Azza wrote: »

A concern I have is would EA back it. After all they are major rival to Valve in the digital distribution business.

I could live without EA on the new Steam-box.

Mass Effect is pretty much over, different writers, different BioWare, etc
Dragon Age will probably be another disaster
CnC is going to be some terrible pay-to-win game with little to no Single-Player element
Crysis 3 might be decent
Dead Space idea is becoming redundant and tagging on multi-player is not enough
Medal of Honour... well... no need to comment here
Battlefield 3 expansions are not really worth the price

Maybe it is time for EA to pull out the old cash-cow the Sims and start milking some more?

I know this is all entirely subjective, but let's be honest, what game has EA brought out in the last year where it has left an indelible impression on you? Games like The Walking Dead, Dishonoured, X-Com, Far Cry 3, Journey... These stick with you, but EA is a one-trick pony. Show you some random, unique, awesome scene and they expect that to sell the game to you, when, really all you have is a vacuous, lifeless 'product'.

EA = great marketing, looks nice, and you want to get stuck in, but realistically, it will be over-rated and never as good as it seems. Sorta like Megan Fox :P

Dyr · 08-01-2013 3:27pm

Andy!! wrote: »

It's the responsibility of the individual developer to provide the port, not Valves.

I'm sure if this thing died on its arse Gabe would console himself with that fact.

"well its not our fault none of those third parties developed ports for their games"

Azza · 08-01-2013 3:40pm

ShadowHearth wrote:

His bank account begs to differ.

Thats due to other reasons. Steam and Valves others games have been very successful but Valves plans to release games episodically so they could make games faster failed spectacularly. Valve have a very good track record but they have made mistakes.

Falthyron wrote:

I could live without EA on the new Steam-box.

You could but I doubt a console could.

Falthyron · 08-01-2013 3:45pm

Azza wrote: »

You could but I doubt a console could.

Perhaps, but the number of users registering and using STEAM are still increasing despite EA's choice to stop releasing games on it. Would this not be indicative of the importance of service over content and I am sure this would be a key factor for people making a decision on whether or not to buy the console.

I remember one of the key issues when it came to PS3 versus Xbox was not really the type of games on the console, but the online service - Xbox being paid and PS being free.

Spear · 08-01-2013 3:58pm

marco_polo wrote: »

Was the problem not that the option to buy the DLC from steam wasn't there, due to EAs in game stores rather than wanting exclusive rights for steam bought games.

Yes, you're right, that was ambiguous wording on my part.

ShadowHearth · 08-01-2013 4:05pm

Azza wrote: »

Thats due to other reasons. Steam and Valves others games have been very successful but Valves plans to release games episodically so they could make games faster failed spectacularly. Valve have a very good track record but they have made mistakes.

You could but I doubt a console could.

Well he still has his millions. I don't really see how his episodic games thing failed. I think it worked like a freaking charm. He hooked everyone on episode one and two, not there is a sea of moaning cows, who doing marketing for valve. When he pulls out hl3 out of his bickers he won't even need to spend a penny on marketing. Fanboys have done that job for free already,
I don't really see that as a fail at all. Even if it is fail that did not costed valve a penny, just made a few fanboys pissed, that's all. Funny enough those pissed fanboys will eat up episode 3 and will have exploding orgasms.

Azza · 08-01-2013 4:23pm

ShadowHearth wrote:

He hooked everyone on episode one and two, not there is a sea of moaning cows who doing marketing for valve. When he pulls out hl3 out of his bickers he won't even need to spend a penny on marketing. Fanboys have done that job for free already

They didn't need to hook anyone with Episodes 1 and 2. What ever way the developed the series it would of sold like hotcakes considering the reception of the first 2. Had they skipped the messing around with Episodic add ons we might already have Half Life 3.

While the game would of course sell well with no marketing, of course there still going market it as well, because it will sell even better. There is no way there not going to do that.

ShadowHearth · 08-01-2013 4:28pm

Azza wrote: »

They didn't need to hook anyone with Episodes 1 and 2. What ever way the developed the series it would of sold like hotcakes considering the reception of the first 2. Had they skipped the messing around with Episodic add ons we might already have Half Life 3.

While the game would of course sell well with no marketing, of course there still going market it as well, because it will sell even better. There is no way there not going to do that.

so still, how does that qualifies as valves mistake? they made money and they got everyone hooked up on HL3 like crack.

anyway. We can speculate as much as we want, but in the end we will just have to wait and see.

Azza · 08-01-2013 4:29pm

Falthyron wrote:

Perhaps, but the number of users registering and using STEAM are still increasing despite EA's choice to stop releasing games on it. Would this not be indicative of the importance of service over content and I am sure this would be a key factor for people making a decision on whether or not to buy the console.

Yes but what percentage of Steam users also use EA's Origin system. Using one service on PC does not stop you from using the other. This will probably not be the case with the Steambox.

Origins user numbers are raising all the time as well. While it does sell games from 3rd parties, it will be primarily selling it own games. Its success would indicate strong demand for EA titles.

Nody · 08-01-2013 4:36pm

Azza wrote: »

Origins user numbers are raising all the time as well. While it does sell games from 3rd parties, it will be primarily selling it own games. Its success would indicate strong demand for EA titles.

Is that a strong demand for their titles or required activation on the site for all new games though? And Consoles have had exclusives for one console only with out this being a major issue (in fact it's been a driver for selecting one over the other) so I'm not sure why not having Origin would be a major issue.

aN.Droid · 08-01-2013 4:40pm

Nody wrote: »

Is that a strong demand for their titles or required activation on the site for all new games though? And Consoles have had exclusives for one console only with out this being a major issue (in fact it's been a driver for selecting one over the other) so I'm not suer why not having Origin would be a major issue.

EA's sports games are synonymous with consoles. That, in my opinion is a very large issue that will need to be sorted out for this to be accepted among allot of the console users.

quarryman · 08-01-2013 4:41pm

ShadowHearth wrote: »

Well he still has his billions. .

FTFY.

Azza · 08-01-2013 4:43pm

ShadowHearth wrote:

so still, how does that qualifies as valves mistake? they made money and they got everyone hooked up on HL3 like crack.

K I'll go off topic one last time. You where making the point that Gabe thinks things out very thoroughly. I agree but that still doesn't means he always gets things right

Several years ago Gabe predicted that episodic content was the future of game development at least at Valve and potentially over the whole industry. Half life 2 Episodes where suppose to set the trend. They said it would allow them to release games quicker. Episodes 1+2+3 where considered to be HL3. But now 9 years or so after the release of Half Life 2 we still don't have a completed trilogy. The gap between Half life 1 and Half life 2 was only 6 years. So in the sense it was suppose to speed up development, Valve where wrong and in the sense it would become there development model they where also wrong as they have since abandoned it in favour of "the game is a service model". My point being Valve aren't infallible.

They didn't need to use Episodes as a tool to hook players for the third game, they where already hooked on the series from the first 2 games. Most would agree that will the Episodes where good, the overall quality of them wasn't quite as good as the first 2 full games.

gizmo · 08-01-2013 4:50pm

Azza wrote: »

Yes but what percentage of Steam users also use EA's Origin system. Using one service on PC does not stop you from using the other. This will probably not be the case with the Steambox.

Origins user numbers are raising all the time as well. While it does sell games from 3rd parties, it will be primarily selling it own games. Its success would indicate strong demand for EA titles.

And long may it continue. This idea that in order to escape the possibility of one closed-environment in the guise of the Windows App Store, we have to embrace another one, Steam, is ****ing ludicrous.

Similarly, EA getting abuse for wanting to keep DLC-based revenues for themselves rather than being forced to give Valve a cut is nuts when the latter are doing exactly the same thing in trying to get away from Windows.

Whilst it's undoubtedly true that Valve offer the best service in terms of digital distribution platforms at the moment, if they were to release a console which offered no other support for other platforms then I'd avoid it like the plague. On the other hand, if their move to an open Linux-based platform encourages more devs to support the OS then it'll be a great victory for choice for gamers.

Azza · 08-01-2013 4:53pm

Nody wrote:

Is that a strong demand for their titles or required activation on the site for all new games though?

Well you could look at it this way either. Its possible that it does indicate strong demand, it shows that users are willing to go through quite abit of inconvenience to play EA games.

Sierra Oscar · 08-01-2013 5:47pm

Azza wrote: »

Thats due to other reasons. Steam and Valves others games have been very successful but Valves plans to release games episodically so they could make games faster failed spectacularly. Valve have a very good track record but they have made mistakes.

Of course they have, PowerPlay anyone? Now that was a fail. :P

I don't think people were really expecting what they saw today regarding the pricing. The 'base' version looks like it will retail for €500 whereas the high end model will be closer to €1000. I cannot see this replacing an enthusiasts rig considering the price - but then again I am not entirely sure that this is even aimed at the enthusiast PC Gamer.

Azza · 08-01-2013 6:14pm

Sierra Oscar wrote:

Of course they have, PowerPlay anyone? Now that was a fail.

If I had known about that I would of cited that. Would of proven my point quicker.

Also I agree if those are the prices, I can't see it being a success.

degrassinoel · 08-01-2013 6:44pm

So that's what it's gonna look like, pretty nifty

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=isfqiYG7wiI

ShadowHearth · 08-01-2013 6:56pm

Emmmm I read more about that tiny box and u have to say I doubt it's going to be a steam box.

That thing is 500-1000eu and it is still not even near as powerful as a custom built PC for that price.
The selling point of that yoke is being small all in one PC out of the box. Now here's where my logic goes with this. Does steam really care about it being as small as possible? That allienware Area 51? Was a perfect example of what steam box should be. It's compact size with quite a powerfull hardware for such thing. Plus it's cheaper then this tiny box thing.

Did valve confirmed that its going to be based on this? Or that's just journalist jumping the gun again?

Sierra Oscar · 08-01-2013 6:57pm

Hmm . . . so they have technology already on the market?

Newegg.com - xi3 Corporation 902-0001-001 Xi3 x5a 16gb ssd linux

marco_polo · 08-01-2013 7:01pm

I was pretty doubtful anyway that Steam for Linux had anything to do with the Steam box, other that being mentioned by Gabe in the same interviews that they were two projects Valve were working on. And I am even more convinced now that that is the case.

A catalog of 40 odd games combined with a potentially $1000 piece of niche equipment is not the stuff of open source gaming revolutions are made.

Sierra Oscar · 08-01-2013 7:02pm

marco_polo wrote: »

I was pretty doubtful anyway that Steam for Linux had anything to do with the Steam box, other that being mentioned by Gabe in the same interviews that they were two projects Valve were working on. And I am even more convinced now that that is the case.

A catalog of 40 odd games combined with a potentially $1000 piece of niche equipment is not the stuff of open source gaming revolutions are made.

To be honest I think choosing the Linux platform is for a far more basic business reason rather than an ideological one.

Linux is free, with Windows they would be forced to pay an expensive license fee which would shove up the cost of an already relatively expensive piece of hardware.

marco_polo · 08-01-2013 7:07pm

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

To be honest I think choosing the Linux platform is for a far more basic business reason rather than an ideological one.

Linux is free, with Windows they would be forced to pay a license fee.

I am certain something like that is in there longer term plans, but I just think that this product smacks of them testing the living room PC waters rather than a massive launch (My money is on windows here). And meanwhile they will continue on this year (quite seperately) with getting the desktop steam for Linux out of open beta.

At some point the two may meet but not 2013.

If I am completely and utterly wrong we will find out in the next day or so.

Sierra Oscar · 08-01-2013 7:13pm

Indeed, it will be interesting to see. This doesn't really hint at the really bold launch of hardware aimed at targeting the current console market.

It sort of just looks like Xi3 approached Valve with the idea that they create a new version of their hardware that has Steam pre-installed with native support. I thought Valve would be playing far more of an active role in the actual creation of the hardware itself, but I guess time will tell.

EDIT: Although it is important to note that we dont know the official price for the 'Piston' device yet. The current prices being floated are merely based on some of the hardware already offered by Xi3.

cherryghost · 08-01-2013 7:19pm

There's a number of other factors to take in regardless.

1) Price will inevitably come down when the product enters mass production.
2) Valve may sell the box at a small loss and make up in bigger commission gains.
3) There could also easily be added advertisements on the client to add revenue and further reduce the box price.

Either way, selling at over 400 euro is suicide imo, at least 1 of the 3 options above will come into play at some point.

Valve developing steam box console

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