Lads. W.T.F?

TouchingVirus · 17-11-2014 2:06am

efb wrote: »

Good for you too.

Indeed, bully for both of us!

masonchat · 17-11-2014 2:10am

The more i watch it the worse it looks , the guard far left and far right are most at fault to me , especially guard far right the middle guard hadnt a chance to prevent.

The guard far right did look a bit shocked for a second they quickly decides to leg it , even if they had went back to her to make sure she was ok .

I get they will have wanted to move her fast and at the same time make sure no one else approached the car but there was no sense to the gusto put in to it by 2 of the 3 , that woman could have been very badly hurt and for what

emo72 · 17-11-2014 2:10am

TouchingVirus wrote: »

You'll not have a good time of it with this subject in this particular forum, much like a member of the force trying to reason such an action in among the members of After Hours. The biases are out in force, I'd retreat now if I were you.

yeah. you're right. i dont feel the need to retreat, just wanted an explanation for this. thought someone would talk to me about this here. its only fair to hear both sides of the story. im sickened. im emotive. im a fairly hardened guy, but still that "thud", cant get it out of my head. AH is not the place to have a reasoned discussion. it probably turned out the girl was okay. still not a proud day for the gardai. the rank and file have had a bad time of it lately, not fair to them either. im sure they dont want to be on those frontlines either. ah feck, just trying to be the voice of reason, someone help me out here.

SeaDaily · 17-11-2014 2:51am

emo72 wrote: »

yeah. you're right. i dont feel the need to retreat, just wanted an explanation for this. thought someone would talk to me about this here. its only fair to hear both sides of the story. im sickened. im emotive. im a fairly hardened guy, but still that "thud", cant get it out of my head. AH is not the place to have a reasoned discussion. it probably turned out the girl was okay. still not a proud day for the gardai. the rank and file have had a bad time of it lately, not fair to them either. im sure they dont want to be on those frontlines either. ah feck, just trying to be the voice of reason, someone help me out here.

If you're trying to be the voice of reason aren't doing a great job. To be honest I think the gardai did quite well. Their No.1 job today would have been to protect Enda Kenny, who is, whether you like it or not, the leader of our country. If, in order to ensure that our Taoiseach's car can safely leave the mansion house, a protester is thrown aside, so be it.

Obviously it's a bit of an extreme comparison but imagine someone stepped in front of president Obama's car as he was leaving the white house. There would swiftly be a bullet in that person's head. A bit less extreme of a comparison; imagine someone stepped in front of Cameron's car as it left No.10. There would be some fairly serious force employed in ejecting that person from the situation. As I said before though these are relatively extreme examples because our Taoiseach is obviously not nearly as important as the US president or the UK prime minister. However my point still stands, in this situation the safety of the leader of our country is of course of the utmost importance and the gardai would have been informed of this. They would more than likely have been briefed to keep any protesters as far away as possible from Kenny's car and if, in order to follow these instructions they had to throw a protester who attempted to obstruct his car to the kerb, so be it.

I assume you will respond to this by saying that even if they were told to keep people away from the car, excessive force was used by the gardai in question. However, I would once again urge you to consider how the respective police forces of country's around the world would react if someone were to jump in front of the car which carried the leader of that country. In my opinion it is entirely reasonable to remove the person through force if necessary. Frankly I think that even allowing protesters that close to our Taoiseach's car is a bit much and shows a fairly lax attitude of behalf of the gardai. It only takes one nutjob to get close to a person in power like Kenny and throw a couple of punches to cause some fairly serious damage. And this all coming very soon after Burton had been hit in the head with a water balloon, I think the reaction of the gardai in this situation is entirely justified.

masonchat · 17-11-2014 3:07am

SeaDaily wrote: »

If you're trying to be the voice of reason aren't doing a great job. To be honest I think the gardai did quite well. Their No.1 job today would have been to protect Enda Kenny, who is, whether you like it or not, the leader of our country. If, in order to ensure that our Taoiseach's car can safely leave the mansion house, a protester is thrown aside, so be it.

Obviously it's a bit of an extreme comparison but imagine someone stepped in front of president Obama's car as he was leaving the white house. There would swiftly be a bullet in that person's head. A bit less extreme of a comparison; imagine someone stepped in front of Cameron's car as it left No.10. There would be some fairly serious force employed in ejecting that person from the situation. As I said before though these are relatively extreme examples because our Taoiseach is obviously not nearly as important as the US president or the UK prime minister. However my point still stands, in this situation the safety of the leader of our country is of course of the utmost importance and the gardai would have been informed of this. They would more than likely have been briefed to keep any protesters as far away as possible from Kenny's car and if, in order to follow these instructions they had to throw a protester who attempted to obstruct his car to the kerb, so be it.

I assume you will respond to this by saying that even if they were told to keep people away from the car, excessive force was used by the gardai in question. However, I would once again urge you to consider how the respective police forces of country's around the world would react if someone were to jump in front of the car which carried the leader of that country. In my opinion it is entirely reasonable to remove the person through force if necessary. Frankly I think that even allowing protesters that close to our Taoiseach's car is a bit much and shows a fairly lax attitude of behalf of the gardai. It only takes one nutjob to get close to a person in power like Kenny and throw a couple of punches to cause some fairly serious damage. And this all coming very soon after Burton had been hit in the head with a water balloon, I think the reaction of the gardai in this situation is entirely justified.

You might want to watch this

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/video/2014/oct/27/david-cameron-protester-leeds-video

My name is URL · 17-11-2014 3:42am

efb wrote: »

Also she is not seen hitting the bollard

I'm not going to get into any argument or debate about rights or wrongs here, but all the above is worthy of is the rolleyes emoticon.

Nobody was 'seen' throwing the water balloon at Burton the other day, but are you arguing that it created itself out of thin air and just gravitated towards her head?

She was flung towards a bollard, rightly or wrongly. But only an idiot could possibly use 'she wasn't seen hitting it' or the opposite as a justification for what went before.

Sir Gallagher · 17-11-2014 3:55am

Seems the two lads had it under control before Mr. Hi-Vis wanted some of the action.

ONISION · 17-11-2014 4:21am

fem planned

down low vibe

fem fail once again

Nino Brown · 17-11-2014 4:43am

If I jumped out in front of a car containing a head of state, I would fully expect to be tackled by the police. In most countries I doubt the car would even stop, I would have thought drivers would be trained to keep going in those situations.

DoYouEvenLift · 17-11-2014 4:47am

Lmao what was that guy doing when trying to throw her? If she's doing something illegal should he not be trying to detain her? Anyway, no idea what she thought she was accomplishing by standing in front of the car in the first place

Little CuChulainn · 17-11-2014 9:05am

I wonder why nobody has mentioned that one of the Gardai appears to be bent over in pain at the end of the video. Looks to me like he got a blow to the crown jewels. In any case, I doubt there was a deliberate attempt to throw her into a pole nor do I think she hit the pole, although I'm fully sure there will soon be a video with sound effects to support that claim.

I think this is simply a case of Newtons law. They were pulling and she was resisting. She stopped resisting and was suddenly subject to all the force that was being placed on her. It's always a danger when trying to move people.

Gatling · 17-11-2014 10:40am

My name is URL wrote: »

But only an idiot could possibly use 'she wasn't seen hitting it' or the opposite as a justification for what went before.

She brought it on herself she didn't hit the bollard. yes she ended up on her arse assisted by the lad in the high vis but it hardly warrants garda brutality tags.
The masses seem to believe anything that's apparently posted on fb,
it's got to the stage of Jeremy kyle's couch .
how did you know this happened ?
Well I read it on facebook there for its fact thats what happened .
did you see it ?
No but I heard on facebook

sjb25 · 17-11-2014 10:53am

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

I wonder why nobody has mentioned that one of the Gardai appears to be bent over in pain at the end of the video. Looks to me like he got a blow to the crown jewels. In any case, I doubt there was a deliberate attempt to throw her into a pole nor do I think she hit the pole, although I'm fully sure there will soon be a video with sound effects to support that claim.

I think this is simply a case of Newtons law. They were pulling and she was resisting. She stopped resisting and was suddenly subject to all the force that was being placed on her. It's always a danger when trying to move people.

Think you have got it in one this is what I reckon happened and it does look like he got a belt down there by somebody

Barely There · 17-11-2014 10:56am

If she'd pulled that stunt in pretty much any other Country, she'd have gotten a couple of smacks with a baton and a night in the cells for good measure.

The faux-outrange on display in the thread is amusing in the extreme.

She got away very lightly considering her behaviour.

hatrickpatrick · 17-11-2014 1:18pm

efb wrote: »

Don't be bothered with things like facts! We just want hysteria

Whether she hit it is irrelevant IMO, the guy who violently grabbed her and threw her aside overreacted one way or another.

masonchat · 17-11-2014 1:43pm

The fact that so many here are defending the force used is also quite disturbing , i was willing to believe it was the actions of a couple of poor guards , maybe we have a deeper problem here.

Will it take a death of a civilian like Ian Tomlinson in the uk, before action is taken.

Firstly i dont think the guards saw the bollard untill it was too late but that is hardly the point, if that woman met that bollard head first at that force it could easily have been a death we are talking about.

Secondly i didnt see the woman standing in front of the car at all as has been said here , no more than i saw her hit the bollard.
She can be seen at the side of the car, a car moving at 10 miles per hour if that.

If you look at what happened david cammeron a couple of weeks ago and how that was handled , a jogger runs in from the side , unseen by security and runs into cammeron, that situation could have been much more dangerous because a unexpected threat came from nowhere and caught security off guard, now i could understand if the police overreacted and jumped on that jogger and excessively manhandled him because they didnt know what was happening , did he have a knife ? a gun? a bomb ?.

But they DIDNT because they were good police officers who were quickly abel to access the situation and control it without nearly caving someones head in.

Now go back to the guards above , they KNOW they are in a potentially hostile envoirment so they were'nt caught off guard , thay could well see the woman was no real threat to anyone and they had her well away from the car and had no reason whatsoever to throw her on the pavement like that.

It is not either a case of Newtons law as has been suggested , if you watch it closely and a few times you can clearly see the vitirol put into the movement.

efb · 17-11-2014 1:50pm

masonchat wrote: »

The fact that so many here are defending the force used is also quite disturbing , i was willing to believe it was the actions of a couple of poor guards , maybe we have a deeper problem here.

Will it take a death of a civilian like Ian Tomlinson in the uk, before action is taken.

Firstly i dont think the guards saw the bollard untill it was too late but that is hardly the point, if that woman met that bollard head first at that force it could easily have been a death we are talking about.

Secondly i didnt see the woman standing in front of the car at all as has been said here , no more than i saw her hit the bollard.
She can be seen at the side of the car, a car moving at 10 miles per hour if that.

If you look at what happened david cammeron a couple of weeks ago and how that was handled , a jogger runs in from the side , unseen by security and runs into cammeron, that situation could have been much more dangerous because a unexpected threat came from nowhere and caught security off guard, now i could understand if the police overreacted and jumped on that jogger and excessively manhandled him because they didnt know what was happening , did he have a knife ? a gun? a bomb ?.

But they DIDNT because they were good police officers who were quickly abel to access the situation and control it without nearly caving someones head in.

Now go back to the guards above , they KNOW they are in a potentially hostile envoirment so they were'nt caught off guard , thay could well see the woman was no real threat to anyone and they had her well away from the car and had no reason whatsoever to throw her on the pavement like that.

It is not either a case of Newtons law as has been suggested , if you watch it closely and a few times you can clearly see the vitirol put into the movement.

She doesn't appear to be seriously injured, for all the alleged force

My name is URL · 17-11-2014 1:54pm

masonchat wrote: »

The fact that so many here are defending the force used is also quite disturbing

lol.. you're obviously new =p

They've defended far far worse than that here over the years!

This forum is a closed shop. Basically an extension of the canteen in Templemore.

hatrickpatrick · 17-11-2014 2:07pm

efb wrote: »

She doesn't appear to be seriously injured, for all the alleged force

Irrelevant. If someone punches you in the face and you manage not to get a broken nose, they've still assaulted you.

efb · 17-11-2014 2:29pm

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Irrelevant. If someone punches you in the face and you manage not to get a broken nose, they've still assaulted you.

But people were talking about force! If there was as much force used as people suggested she would be injured seriously

hatrickpatrick · 17-11-2014 2:34pm

efb wrote: »

But people were talking about force! If there was as much force used as people suggested she would be injured seriously

Or she could have been lucky and escaped serious injury. Wouldn't change the fact that she was treated with more force than was necessary.
To clarify, the hi-vis guy had no right to use any force at all as far as I'm concerned. She was already being adequately restrained by the others. His getting involved at all was excessive, and it's very clear from the video that he did so out of anger rather than out of necessity. That's what makes it excessive.

masonchat · 17-11-2014 2:36pm

efb wrote: »

But people were talking about force! If there was as much force used as people suggested she would be injured seriously

If you cant see how close she came or how lucky she was not to injured then its impossible to take anything you say seriously surely a troll

hardCopy · 17-11-2014 2:41pm

I don't think it's fair to compare this to the David Cameron incident.

In that incident there was one jogger and many security personnel. In this case the gards are far outnumbered by protesters, had she been allowed to stop the car there would have been dozens in behind her and we would have had a repeat of what happened with Burton.

TallGlass · 17-11-2014 2:49pm

Barely There wrote: »

If she'd pulled that stunt in pretty much any other Country, she'd have gotten a couple of smacks with a baton and a night in the cells for good measure.

The faux-outrange on display in the thread is amusing in the extreme.

She got away very lightly considering her behaviour.

Thankfully we don't live in a society like that where we can give people a couple of smacks as you put it.

Paulzx · 17-11-2014 2:56pm

TallGlass wrote: »

Thankfully we don't live in a society like that where we can give people a couple of smacks as you put it.

No, but unfortunately we live in a country where the Tanaiste can be trapped in a car for two hours by a baying mob screaming obscenities and intimidation all in the name of "Peacefull Protest, Peacefull Protest" whilst being encouraged by an elected TD with a megaphone.

Bigmambo · 17-11-2014 2:56pm

Gatling wrote: »

So did anyone happen to see fiona ( as named in the various fb posts ) actually hit the bollard or read the title and decided she was thrown into the bollard without actually seeing it ,

I was there when it happened (unfortunately bringing visitors to Ireland around the city at the time) and yes she most definitely did hit the bollard. It was horrific to witness.

You can see in the video that two Guards had the woman restrained when a 3rd came charging at her and threw her full force into the bollard. While I don't agree with her actions, it was a perversly dissproportionate amount of force to use on this woman. That 3rd Garda should be arrested for assault.

Gatling · 17-11-2014 3:11pm

Bigmambo wrote: »

I was there when it happened (unfortunately bringing visitors to Ireland around the city at the time) and yes she most definitely did hit the bollard. It was horrific to witness.

You can see in the video that two Guards had the woman restrained when a 3rd came charging at her and threw her full force into the bollard. While I don't agree with her actions, it was a perversly dissproportionate amount of force to use on this woman. That 3rd Garda should be arrested for assault.

No she didn't hit the bollard at all .
You don't hit a steel bollard and say oh my god I believe she hit the ground with her hands and kicked out at one of the Garda as she was pushed

Paulzx · 17-11-2014 3:14pm

I think the bollard should be charged with assault and reported to the B.O.C (Bollard Ombudsman Commission)

Bigmambo · 17-11-2014 3:23pm

Gatling wrote: »

No she didn't hit the bollard at all .
You don't hit a steel bollard and say oh my god I believe she hit the ground with her hands

WTF? How are you stating something as fact when you weren't there to witness it ????

What you want to believe and what happened are two different things.

I'll repeat, slowly for you this time, ... I saw her hit the bollard.

Little CuChulainn · 17-11-2014 3:25pm

Bigmambo wrote: »

WTF? How are you stating something as fact when you weren't there to witness it ????

What you want to believe and what happened are two different things.

I'll repeat, slowly for you this time, ... I saw her hit the bollard.

I think I speak for more than myself when I say this slowly ..... I don't believe you.

Lads. W.T.F?

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