Final Fantasy 7....by a non gamer

Lahinchians · 22-04-2012 3:46pm

RedXIV wrote: »

After initiating the conversation to get to Barret, she completed the cutscene and went down to fight Jenova, the first boss in a while that gave her any kind of challenge. it was nice to see her reaction as sephiroth came up through the floor, which she summed up in the single word "....BALLS!", before starting the battle. The combination of Stop and using the laser multiple times in a turn really took her by surprise. However, at this stage in the game, she has most people on around 800-900 HP so it wasn't too hard for her to stay alive to beat him as a boss. She has done a few little things though which are good to see that she's aware of the importance of strategy. For example, she used Barret's mindblow first to take any MP off the enemy (even if it didn't work) and she's finally understood summon materia!

So after a few day of playing she's starting to use different stratagies. She's a better RPG player then I am, with my all-out-attack, beat-em-up style tactic. That's great news

Kaldea · 23-04-2012 9:30pm

I'd love to be able to play FFVII through new eyes again! Feel everything I felt the first time round! Nothing like it! ^_^ Don't get those feelings with the latest installments.

_AVALANCHE_ · 23-04-2012 11:21pm

update update update

MitchKoobski · 23-04-2012 11:37pm

Sunday morning I was leaving Midgar.
This evening I'm outside the Temple of the Ancients.

LOOK AT WHAT THIS THREAD HAS DONE TO ME

Draupnir · 24-04-2012 3:52pm

I had forgotten about that Demon Wall until this thread reminded me, I nearly failed Junior Cert Geography because of that damn battle. Must have taken me 15 goes.

ride-the-spiral · 24-04-2012 5:31pm

My friend and his brother were stuck on Demon Gate for a good 3 years.

MitchKoobski · 24-04-2012 5:57pm

For the first time ever, I bothered to search the Temple top to bottom. Got every treasure. Red Dragon was a piece of piss. Demon Wall was an asshole, but I got nearly 8 limit breaks in the battle, and Aerith's Level 2 limit break when she got the killing blow. Bit of a ****ing waste at that point.....

RedXIV · 25-04-2012 9:57am

Not a huge update for you guys as herself has been sick AND looking after 3 sick kids like the hero she is. We haven't had the opportunity to do much gaming time.

But anyways, last we left off, we had just hit the coral prison. Here was interesting enough as it was the first "populated" area that had random encounters so while she was trying to figure out who to talk to and where to go, she was constantly getting into fights which were annoying her. More irritating were the fights with the bandits who successfully stole over 1000 gil on her as well as Yuffie's Wind Slash. Also she had an issue with the 2 face enemies which were curing her before she realised they could also self destruct. at nearly 1000HP these self destruct moves were the closest she's been getting to death in a while so as you can imagine, she was getting nervous.

It took her a while to get out of the main prison area to find Dyne but I was looking forward to this as she didn't know that Barret would be fighting alone. However, she was, as mentioned earlier, at 1000HP meaning that at worst, Dyne was only taking about 300 off her. He was beaten in about 5 mins thanks to the fact she had a limit break going in.

After beating Dyne she went up to the chocobo racing and here was a challenge. I don't think the controls fully sank in as she was reading them as she left the chocobo on automatic for the first race which it ended up running all over the place and coming 4th. The second time however, she got him changed to manual and took first place with ease.

So she's out of the gold saucer now with her buggy and probably due to not feeling 100% she's not really exploring like she should. She completely bypassed Gongaga and was skirting around the edges of Cosmo Canyon but couldn't find the way up and ended up driving around until she hit Coral again. Upon walking back into the place and realising where she was she sighed and left it for the day. Hopefully the kids, and herself, will be back to full health soon and she'll be ok to continue on properly.

On a happy note, she now has a CD with all the calmer songs from the game, and one or two other FF's in the car. I picked out the song list for her to try out and surprisingly, she doesn't like the ones with lyrics so Eyes on me and Melodies of life are not rated well at the moment. She's still enamored with the pianist from video game live's mashup of all the iconic FF songs so thats the first track on her CD and probably going to be listened to 90% of the time.

Only other interesting fact is she's trying to get the victory fanfare as her ringtone, I'm really looking forward to showing her Loz from FF:AC having the same

Retr0gamer · 25-04-2012 10:09am

RedXIV wrote: »

she doesn't like the ones with lyrics so Eyes on me and Melodies of life are not rated well at the moment.

Good taste, those two songs are ghastly with Eyes on Me being a right stinker.

RedXIV wrote: »

Only other interesting fact is she's trying to get the victory fanfare as her ringtone, I'm really looking forward to showing her Loz from FF:AC having the same

Why would you do that to her? If you were a nice person you'd never mention AC and hope that she goes through life never knowing it existed.

RedXIV · 25-04-2012 10:15am

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Good taste, those two songs are ghastly with Eyes on Me being a right stinker.

Why would you do that to her? If you were a nice person you'd never mention AC and hope that she goes through life never knowing it existed.

She's still at the "FF7 can do wrong" stage so it was her idea to watch the movie but I said she'd have to wait until after the game. Can't see her taking to it anyway, really not her style of movie.

Gotta admit though, perhaps its from playing through it so many times that I go through at a much lower level stat wise, but this game has presented very little in the way of challenge for her, instead throwing irritation her way. She encountered the frogs with that combination that makes it practically impossible to not remain a frog for most of the fight and it irritated her more than anything else.

Going through it with her now, I can see that the difficulty needs to ramp up a bit more. She beat Dyne first time where I thought she'd need at least 2 tries to get her materia right. But for her I think its ok as it is her first RPG and a game that had her game over four or five times a night would probably have caused her to lose interest.

Retr0gamer · 25-04-2012 10:35am

Well I did say the game has very little challenge compared to most RPG's but I guess I was totally wrong about that. Disengage smug mode!

I think the only places that will prove a challenge are the two headed dragon, demon wall and the robot in junon. She might even get past them without dying. Other than that she'll breeze through it. It's a great one to start with, she'll have a good understanding of RPG systems while not having been overly frustrated and giving up by the end. Who knows, she might be up to tackling a whore of a game like SMT Lucifers Call soon

MitchKoobski · 25-04-2012 10:38am

I know the idea is to let her go everywhere blind, but I would tell her about Gongaga with Aerith and Tifa.

Its the first big hint you get about Zack, and one of the first hints that Tifa is hiding something.

Retr0gamer · 25-04-2012 10:54am

Agree with the above as well but for different reasons, I want to hear more about Aeris the slut when she finds out about Zack

It's kind of an important side diversion, would be a shame to miss it.

MitchKoobski · 25-04-2012 10:57am

Its also the first hint for Shinra's plan with huge materia AND a nice encounter with the Turks.
Just make sure she brings the two of them, even just for walking around the town.

On another note, I finished Disc 1 last night. I did almost well up a bit for the death scene. That music is just heart wrenching.

Vokes · 25-04-2012 2:03pm

Another +1 on directing her to Gongaga.

I missed this the first time around back in 1997, which was a massive shame in hindsight given how it ties into events that come later in the story.

noodler · 25-04-2012 2:05pm

+1

Obviously have Aeris and Tifa in your party.

noodler · 25-04-2012 2:08pm

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Well I did say the game has very little challenge compared to most RPG's but I guess I was totally wrong about that. Disengage smug mode!

I think the only places that will prove a challenge are the two headed dragon, demon wall and the robot in junon. She might even get past them without dying. Other than that she'll breeze through it. It's a great one to start with, she'll have a good understanding of RPG systems while not having been overly frustrated and giving up by the end. Who knows, she might be up to tackling a whore of a game like SMT Lucifers Call soon

Kind of difference in what you originally said though!

A couple of bosses being hard isn't the same as "there is no challenge in the game past the first boss".

So yes, I do believe you should disengage smug mode!

Retr0gamer · 25-04-2012 3:04pm

noodler wrote: »

Kind of difference in what you originally said though!

A couple of bosses being hard isn't the same as "there is no challenge in the game past the first boss".

So yes, I do believe you should disengage smug mode!

Those bosses might annoy a first timer but they still won't give them much trouble beyond an annoyance or a game over screen if they are very unlucky/cack handed. That's not what I'd call challenge.

Anyway, you can continue twisting my statements to meet your arguments all you want. I've already been proven outragously wrong when I said catching a chocobo was going to be a pain in the arse for a first timer.

noodler · 25-04-2012 3:05pm

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Anyway, you can continue twisting my statements to meet your arguments all you want.

And now be fair, you clearly said there was only one challenging boss in the game and then numerous posters have come back stating they had problems with Carry Armour, Demon Wall etc.

I don't think I am twisting anything!

Retr0gamer · 25-04-2012 3:17pm

noodler wrote: »

And now be fair, you clearly said there was only one challenging boss in the game and then numerous posters have come back stating they had problems with Carry Armour, Demon Wall etc.

I don't think I am twisting anything!

It's not my fault that they are rubbish at games. Carry Armour and Demon Wall were more a nuisance than truly difficult for me. Anyway the proof has yet to come. Unless you give up during the boss fight really you shouldn't have much trouble at all. Even Demon Wall is just about not getting flustered once he closes in on you. If you keep your head straight and keep up the healing and damage then you'll be fine. I think a lot of people just concede defeat to demon wall since it's the first time in the game they'll be put under pressure.

ride-the-spiral · 25-04-2012 7:21pm

I have to disagree. Having been the one who eventually beat Demon Gate for my friend who was stuck on him for years, I noticed how hard the game can be. He wasn't a very high level, didn't have high level materia or many of the useful enemy skills, and didn't have enough damn phoenix downs. On our first playthrough me and my brothers used the run away command a bit too many times so we were at a much lower level than recommended for pretty much all of the games bosses. Rubbish at games? Well obviously running away too often in a game where the mechanics are centred on levelling up wasn't the cleverest thing in the world, but damn it anytime there was a challenging boss (which was often) we died, changed tactics and tried again, we didn't concede defeat, and we beat the game in the end. It's an RPG, it's true that the game can be very easy if you do a lot of things right, but it's also true that one can miss a lot of things, and do a lot of things wrong in which case the game is difficult.

Retr0gamer · 25-04-2012 7:27pm

TBH if you run away from battles it's your own fault. It's like natural selection working in videogame form, how meta.

ancapailldorcha · 25-04-2012 7:29pm

On my second playthrough, I had Aerith in my party when I went to Gongaga. I had no idea there was a scene with Tifa as well.

ghostchant · 25-04-2012 10:06pm

I had plenty of trouble with Carry Armour and the two-headed dragon, but I'd agree that it was due to being a first-timer. Replaying the game, those fights were ok, mainly due to being far better at multi-tasking and planning ahead than I originally was. (I'd forgotten the finer points of fighting them in the meantime) There are certainly tougher fights in other RPGs. Never had a problem with Demon Wall, probably due to luck as much as anything else originally though.

MitchKoobski · 25-04-2012 10:10pm

I just got the Highwind, and I'm already dreading Carry Armour.

Retr0gamer · 25-04-2012 10:43pm

I think RedXIV's missus will be fine, she had no trouble with Dyne it seems, usually he's not that much of a pushover.

F1ngers · 26-04-2012 1:02am

RedXIV wrote: »

Only other interesting fact is she's trying to get the victory fanfare as her ringtone, I'm really looking forward to showing her Loz from FF:AC having the same

I have the victory fanfare for texts(MGS for ringtone)...:o
Got it from here, http://www.zedge.net/ringtones/0-1-1-final%20fantasy%20victory/?sug-search=0&searchphr=final%2Bfantasy%2Bvictory&searchcat=ringtones

nickcave · 26-04-2012 2:15pm

Retr0gamer wrote: »

I think RedXIV's missus will be fine, she had no trouble with Dyne it seems, usually he's not that much of a pushover.

If you haven't had Barrett in your party very much, Dyne can be very tricky indeed.

Revolution9 · 26-04-2012 3:04pm

Just finished Disc One. Demon Gate without doubt the toughest fight, although the last fight against Jenova on Disc One took two or three attempts because she killed my entire party instantly with "Aqualung". When I did beat her she didn't actually use that move during the battle, and it was quite easy.

keane2097 · 26-04-2012 3:06pm

WTF is this stupid argument about how tough bosses aren't actually tough once you've played the game multiple times?

RedXIV · 26-04-2012 3:31pm

keane2097 wrote: »

WTF is this stupid argument about how tough bosses aren't actually tough once you've played the game multiple times?

Well you have to admit, knowing what a boss is capable of due to previous playthroughs helps?

For example, I died several times against Dyne when I first played FF7, the first time because I didn't expect to be fighting him alone, and after that because I wasn't expecting him to use moves twice in a row before I had a chance to counter.

Same with Lost Number that you beat to get Vincent. That guy destroyed me literally dozens of times before I came up with my strategy on how to beat him and because I still know that strategy, he's no longer as tough.

Its a fact that the first time you play through a game, assuming you can't change the difficulty, is going to be the hardest. The only way I can see otherwise is as I stated early in thread, not getting stuck as much as my missus meant I went into battles on lower levels than her

keane2097 · 26-04-2012 3:38pm

Yeah of course it is, but we have people claiming the game is easy because the only way you could find it hard is if you didn't already know how to do everything

Just seems like a stupid way to judge difficulty. I thought the first boss was a piece of piss at the time as it happens, but got killed by Dyna, Materia Keeper, Demon Wall and probably a load of others on my first play through. Next time, I destroyed everyone, because I levelled up more because I knew I needed to.

Judging a game's difficulty on anything but first plays is dumb and FF7 is clearly at least somewhat challenging for the vast majority of people as evidenced here and elsewhere. End of story.

Retr0gamer · 26-04-2012 4:24pm

If you have any experience with any RPG before FFVII especially of one in the FF series then the game is an absolute breeze in comparison. The bosses that give people trouble are all present in older FF games except in much more difficult forms. You only found FFVII challenging because it was your first RPG just like you'd find Super Mario World challenging because it was your first platformer. Watch a noobie to FPS games play something that is a total breeze like a CoD game on the easiest setting and see if they breeze through it.

keane2097 · 26-04-2012 4:36pm

So the whole argument is stupid.

Mindkiller · 26-04-2012 4:41pm

If you're well acquainted with RPG mechanics then of course FFVII is going to be simple. If you aren't, then it won't be easy. The original argument that was made was that the Scorpion was the hardest part of FFVII for newcomers. Which is horse****.

Andy!! · 26-04-2012 4:42pm

keane2097 wrote: »

Yeah of course it is, but we have people claiming the game is easy because the only way you could find it hard is if you didn't already know how to do everything

Just seems like a stupid way to judge difficulty. I thought the first boss was a piece of piss at the time as it happens, but got killed by Dyna, Materia Keeper, Demon Wall and probably a load of others on my first play through. Next time, I destroyed everyone, because I levelled up more because I knew I needed to.

Judging a game's difficulty on anything but first plays is dumb and FF7 is clearly at least somewhat challenging for the vast majority of people as evidenced here and elsewhere. End of story.

Eh relax.

Retr0gamer · 26-04-2012 4:53pm

Mindkiller wrote: »

If you're well acquainted with RPG mechanics then of course FFVII is going to be simple. If you aren't, then it won't be easy. The original argument that was made was that the Scorpion was the hardest part of FFVII for newcomers. Which is horse****.

It was for me, dsicounting the optional bosses and final boss. Honestly did peopl really find FFVII difficult? It was a breeze for me.

Retr0gamer · 26-04-2012 4:55pm

keane2097 wrote: »

So the whole argument is stupid.

Yep, pretty much fanboys getting their knickers in a twist over, something that wasn't even a negative comment about their beloved game in the first plce but they've made it out to be one.

Mindkiller · 26-04-2012 5:03pm

Retr0gamer wrote: »

It was for me, dsicounting the optional bosses and final boss. Honestly did peopl really find FFVII difficult? It was a breeze for me.

FFVII wasn't your first RPG. The point is that you're categorically wrong in saying that FFVII is a breeze for newcomers once they've beaten the scorpion boss.

In case you forgot, you said: "She should be fine with FFVII. There's so little depth to the game really that it's a good place to start. Also now that she has beaten the first boss she's pretty much finished the hardest part of the game other than the final boss."

keane2097 · 26-04-2012 5:05pm

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Yep, pretty much fanboys getting their knickers in a twist over, something that wasn't even a negative comment about their beloved game in the first plce but they've made it out to be one.

You know you make everything worse with language like this.

It also shouldn't need to be pointed out that the majority of people you talk to about the game on this site are of the demographic for which FF7 was a first sojourn into the RPG genre.

So in terms of how difficult you perceived it to have been etc. you're starting out from a very different frame of reference compared to most people when talking about this particular game.

I think this is fairly obvious, I think you're well aware of it, and I think you act like you're oblivious to it basically to annoy people as a way of making up for the fact you didn't like the game as much as they do.

Mindkiller · 26-04-2012 5:10pm

I think you'd find that he probably did enjoy it but now he finds himself forced to revise his impressions of the game in light of all the critical acclaim its received. In music circles he might be labelled a hipster. :pac:

Retr0gamer · 26-04-2012 5:17pm

Mindkiller wrote: »

FFVII wasn't your first RPG. The point is that you're categorically wrong in saying that FFVII is a breeze for newcomers once they've beaten the scorpion boss.

In case you forgot, you said: "She should be fine with FFVII. There's so little depth to the game really that it's a good place to start. Also now that she has beaten the first boss she's pretty much finished the hardest part of the game other than the final boss."

FFVII was actually my first RPG. Also I know what I said and stand by it. She's going to breeze through the game. There might be a bit of a hiccup but I highly doubt she'll be stuck on a boss for ages.

keane2097 wrote: »

You know you make everything worse with language like this.

It also shouldn't need to be pointed out that the majority of people you talk to about the game on this site are of the demographic for which FF7 was a first sojourn into the RPG genre.

So in terms of how difficult you perceived it to have been etc. you're starting out from a very different frame of reference compared to most people when talking about this particular game.

I think this is fairly obvious, I think you're well aware of it, and I think you act like you're oblivious to it basically to annoy people as a way of making up for the fact you didn't like the game as much as they do.

How am I starting out from a very different frame of reference when FFVII was my first RPG as well?

I'm sorry my comments rile up people but I'm not going to sit around and be boring and talk about how perfect the game is. If comments upset you then I think you should have a think about what is upsetting you. I'm just critiquing the game, one I love but like everything nothing is perfect. I'd rather have an intelligent discussion so don't be surprised if I wind people up when they throw their toys out of the pram instead of calming down and having an intelligent discussion.

keane2097 · 26-04-2012 5:25pm

Retr0gamer wrote: »

How am I starting out from a very different frame of reference when FFVII was my first RPG as well?

Leaving out frame of reference then, you've still seemingly had a very different experience playing the game compared to - as far as I can see - literally everyone else on the thread.

Yet you insist that your experience is the essential one, that because you found the scorpion thing hard and everyone else a doddle that that's the way it is. You hated the chocobo stuff so it's shit as a fact of reality, regardless of the fact that a lot people seemed to get much less annoyed than you at it.

Retr0gamer wrote: »

I'm sorry my comments rile up people but I'm not going to sit around and be boring and talk about how perfect the game is. If comments upset you then I think you should have a think about what is upsetting you. I'm just critiquing the game, one I love but like everything nothing is perfect. I'd rather have an intelligent discussion so don't be surprised if I wind people up when they throw their toys out of the pram instead of calming down and having an intelligent discussion.

This is very grown up from the guy whose idea of intelligent discussion was fanboys getting their knickers in a twist two posts ago. Look a bit closer to home IMO.

Retr0gamer · 26-04-2012 5:32pm

Let's put it this way, can you honestly say that FFVII was a tough game or wsa it just one where a few minor bosses proved to be a bit of a speed bump on the way to the ending? I can't think of an easier RPG other than maybe FFIX.

As for the chocobo thing, well if you really enjoyed catching that first chocobo then you have very different definitions to fun that I have.

keane2097 wrote:

This is very grown up from the guy whose idea of intelligent discussion was fanboys getting their knickers in a twist two posts ago. Look a bit closer to home IMO.

Was just hoping some people would look at themselves and see how silly taking it seriously is. Obviously I failed.

Mindkiller · 26-04-2012 5:52pm

Retr0gamer wrote: »

I'm sorry my comments rile up people but I'm not going to sit around and be boring and talk about how perfect the game is. If comments upset you then I think you should have a think about what is upsetting you. I'm just critiquing the game, one I love but like everything nothing is perfect. I'd rather have an intelligent discussion so don't be surprised if I wind people up when they throw their toys out of the pram instead of calming down and having an intelligent discussion.

You're misrepresenting everyone's position. That's why people get flustered over your posts. It genuinely seems like you're just trying to bait people rather than have a 'balanced discussion'. You say you're complimenting the game as well but with every compliment you throw in a sly little dig about FFVII being derivative, or the materia system being too shallow. Or the translation is awful. Or the game is insanely easy. Or the villain sucks. Or Tifa and Aeris are good characters but far weaker than other characters in other established RPG series. And so on.

And it isn't so much that you're not allowed to criticise the games, it's just that in this case your criticism doesn't really stand up to scrutiny. Guardian Scorpion is not the hardest part of the game.

The game is easy. No doubt about that. And it's far from perfect. But there is most definitely a gradual difficulty curve throughout which you seem to be trying to ignore.

That's the last I'll post on it. The thread is getting fecked up with all this crap.

MitchKoobski · 26-04-2012 5:57pm

So about Red's other half and her playthrough?

RedXIV · 26-04-2012 6:05pm

MitchKoobski wrote: »

So about Red's other half and her playthrough?

Sorry about the lack of updates guys, but just to keep you guys interested, we have a quiet weekend coming up, including a few long drives where she'll get her gaming in so expect a good sized update by Monday at the latest.

Also saw her eying up my Xenoblade Chronicles box yesterday, another possible addition to her "to be played" list

Retr0gamer · 26-04-2012 6:34pm

Mindkiller wrote: »

You're misrepresenting everyone's position. That's why people get flustered over your posts. It genuinely seems like you're just trying to bait people rather than have a 'balanced discussion'. You say you're complimenting the game as well but with every compliment you throw in a sly little dig about FFVII being derivative, or the materia system being too shallow. Or the translation is awful. Or the game is insanely easy. Or the villain sucks. Or Tifa and Aeris are good characters but far weaker than other characters in other established RPG series. And so on.

All those things I said and stand by. Am I supposed to pretend that I don't believe those things about the game? Do any of them matter as long as the game is good? I think you misunderstand what a balanced discussion is since the way I see it it's representing both sides of the argument, which I did a couple of posts back in a lengthy post that seems to be ignored. You it takes a bigger person to critique something they love and I have far more respect for those people.

Mindkiller wrote: »

And it isn't so much that you're not allowed to criticise the games, it's just that in this case your criticism doesn't really stand up to scrutiny. Guardian Scorpion is not the hardest part of the game.

So far RedXIV's missus is what I'd call breezing through it. I believe it will continue. I expect there'll be a death of course but I doubt she will reach a bit that is so frustrating she'll leave the game for days.

Mindkiller wrote: »

The game is easy. No doubt about that. And it's far from perfect. But there is most definitely a gradual difficulty curve throughout which you seem to be trying to ignore.

I really don't get what peoples problems with the game being easy is. Panzer Dragoon Saga which is one of my favourite games ever and in my opinion far better than FFVII is the easiest RPG I've ever played. There's nothing wrong with it. Also look back at the posts. I'm not the one that keeps bring this crap up and won't let it go. The game has problems, so what. It's still an exceptional game.

Seems people are mostly describing difficulty spikes than a well judged difficulty curve. It's easy with a few bosses being a hiccup along the way. Not unusual for an RPG. I've not played an RPG without difficulty spikes and SMT games are notorious for the 'baptism of fire boss' that they all have.

ghostchant · 26-04-2012 6:57pm

SMT games tend to have a number of them per game in my experience so far

I think the fact that FFVII provokes such strong reactions is testament to the quality of the game. And I don't think there's anything wrong with tearing it to pieces, but can understand how people get riled up when someone does. For instance I'm currently in love with SMT: Devil Survivor. I'll mutter to myself about how it's a pain-in-the-ass grindfest with almost unfair boss fights, but if someone else said that to me I'd want to fight them

ancapailldorcha · 26-04-2012 6:59pm

My 2 cents for what it's worth.

FFVII was my second RPG after FFX (X-2 doesn't count). I never felt it was that hard at all. I don't think I died once but there were a few close shaves (Demon Wall, Dyne, etc). Dyne actually killed me on the second playthrough funnily enough. It's not hard at all but on the other hand, I watched a video of a boss battle from LoD and it looks so repetitive by comparison. FFVII definitely has bosses that aren't pushovers but I definitely would not say it was hard. I thought X was a good bit harder (Evrae, Cave Guardian, Seymour, etc).

Final Fantasy 7....by a non gamer

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