Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

AgeCards are 'not a form of ID'? What?

Options
  • 06-10-2010 2:12pm
    #1
    Fionn MacCool
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,275 ✭✭✭


    Went into the local friendly Garda station the other day to pick up a form for an AgeCard, as I'm sick of having to worry about bringing my passport out. They told me they don't give them out anymore as you have to complete the form with them because (and I don't see how this has anything to do with not giving them out) "people were using them as a form of ID".

    I asked "is that not pretty much what they are?" and she told me that they were just 'proof of age' cards (clue's in the name I guess).

    How on earth is a card with a great big feckin photo of you, with several security features, one which you get through the government after providing a birth cert and passport NOT a form of identification?


«13

Comments

  • Options
    #2
    Sea Sharp
    Registered Users Posts: 2,593 ✭✭✭Sea Sharp


    Also it's illegal to take your passport out for non-essential use.
    Madness.
    A driver's licence is probably your best bet. The ID for which it is ironically p1ss easy to create a fake.


  • Options
    #3
    _feedback_
    Registered Users Posts: 4,269 ✭✭✭_feedback_


    Would assume they mean it is not considered an official ID (like passport / driving license etc.)

    Good username :)


  • Options
    #4
    mikemac
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,986 ✭✭✭✭mikemac


    The garda is correct.
    It's not official ID like a passport is, it's just proof of age, nothing more

    Bit of a technical difference but it's correct


  • Options
    #5
    My name is URL
    Registered Users Posts: 25,067 ✭✭✭✭My name is URL


    The Intoxicating Liquor Act 1988 (Age Card) Regulations 2007 provide for a voluntary National Age Card scheme. National Age Card’s can be obtained by individuals aged 18 and over to show that they have reached the legal age for purchasing alcohol.

    A National Age Card is a “proof of age card” and not an “Identity Card”. The National Age Card is solely for the purpose stated above and should not be obtained or used for any other purpose.

    http://www.agecard.ie/


  • Options
    #6
    Fionn MacCool
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,275 ✭✭✭Fionn MacCool


    Sea Sharp wrote: »
    Also it's illegal to take your passport out for non-essential use.
    Madness.
    Never heard that before. It is ridiculous that I have to take an expensive government document out with me though. I'm almost 22, nobody has ever told me I look young and I certainly don't look under 18, but there are so many till monkeys out there without an ounce of common sense (or just nazi managers) they feel they have to ask you for ID. Then you have the bouncers who spend their nights waiting for an excuse to refuse someone.

    A driver's licence is probably your best bet. The ID for which it is ironically p1ss easy to create a fake.
    Most places don't actually accept driver's licenses. Dunnes and Aldi don't.

    In fact, I was in Aldi once and the woman wouldn't accept the passport of the guy in front because she thought they could only accept AgeCards.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #7
    Fionn MacCool
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,275 ✭✭✭Fionn MacCool


    feelingstressed wrote: »
    The garda is correct.
    It's not official ID like a passport is, it's just proof of age, nothing more

    Bit of a technical difference but it's correct
    My name is URL wrote: »
    http://www.agecard.ie/


    Yes... I wasn't suggesting she was wrong, I'm wondering why on earth it cannot count as an identity card.


  • Options
    #8
    mikemac
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,986 ✭✭✭✭mikemac


    Till monkeys :rolleyes:
    Maybe the bouncers pick up this attitude.

    The staff are doing their job
    Ahern launches crackdown on underage alcohol sales

    Teenagers as young as 15 will be recruited by gardaí to target pubs, shops and off licences selling alcohol to underage drinkers, it emerged today.

    Senior gardaí nationwide are expected to make a hit list of premises known to flout licensing laws.

    Justice Minister Dermot Ahern and Garda Commissioner Fachtna Murphy launched the test purchasing of alcohol scheme, which will come into effect from October 1.

    Mr Ahern said the aim of the scheme was not to trap an unwary licensee into committing an offence but to ascertain whether a licensee is complying with the law.

    That was just three weeks ago, shops are going to get stricter
    You are 21, every checkout in Tesco has a sign that if you look 21 or under you may be checked. Similar wording anyway


  • Options
    #9
    mahamageehad
    Registered Users Posts: 4,673 ✭✭✭mahamageehad


    Sea Sharp wrote: »
    Also it's illegal to take your passport out for non-essential use.
    Madness.
    A driver's licence is probably your best bet. The ID for which it is ironically p1ss easy to create a fake.

    Most place don't accept drivers licenses???
    A lot of places just accept agecards and passports!!!


  • Options
    #10
    Fionn MacCool
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,275 ✭✭✭Fionn MacCool


    feelingstressed wrote: »
    Till monkeys :rolleyes:
    Maybe the bouncers pick up this attitude.

    The staff are doing their job

    Hence what I said about their managers. Although sometimes, like the time in Aldi when she wouldn't accept a passport, they are just being absolute tools. There is no law stating which ID you can accept, only guidelines. The only law is that you cannot serve a minor.
    Mr Ahern said the aim of the scheme was not to trap an unwary licensee into committing an offence but to ascertain whether a licensee is complying with the law.

    But that's exactly what they are doing...

    Wonder will they start sending scantily clad burds wandering through sketchy areas at night to ascertain whether there are rapists.


  • Options
    #11
    senordingdong
    Registered Users Posts: 10,673 ✭✭✭✭senordingdong


    Had a similar beef myself trying to cash a cheque.

    Wouldn't take a age card which has enough holgrams etc... to beat the band, but would take a drivers license, which as mentioned is the easiest to forge.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #12
    Fionn MacCool
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,275 ✭✭✭Fionn MacCool


    senordingdong wrote: »
    Had a similar beef myself trying to cash a cheque.

    Wouldn't take a age card which has enough holgrams etc... to beat the band, but would take a drivers license, which as mentioned is the easiest to forge.

    Chances are you also presented (or at least were able to) the drivers license PLUS a birth cert to get the AgeCard in the first place!


  • Options
    #13
    Sharkey 10
    Closed Accounts Posts: 552 ✭✭✭Sharkey 10


    personally i have come across differently off licences that between them refuse all forms of id , including a passport (how more valid can you get) . Anyone else have this problem?


  • Options
    #14
    My name is URL
    Registered Users Posts: 25,067 ✭✭✭✭My name is URL


    Fionn MacCool wrote: »
    Yes... I wasn't suggesting she was wrong, I'm wondering why on earth it cannot count as an identity card.

    Because it's not intended to be one. Simple as that really. There's probably very strict laws on what can be classed as a national identity card, and how they are made available to people. I don't think a national ID card could be taken up on a voluntary basis..


  • Options
    #15
    Adyx
    Registered Users Posts: 2,997 ✭✭✭Adyx


    Fionn MacCool wrote: »
    Never heard that before. It is ridiculous that I have to take an expensive government document out with me though. I'm almost 22, nobody has ever told me I look young and I certainly don't look under 18, but there are so many till monkeys out there without an ounce of common sense (or just nazi managers) they feel they have to ask you for ID. Then you have the bouncers who spend their nights waiting for an excuse to refuse someone.

    They do have to ask you for id. Unless the law has been changed recently, it is against the law for a person aged 18 to 23 to be on a licensed premises without id (proof of age).


  • Options
    #16
    JayEnnis
    Registered Users Posts: 851 ✭✭✭JayEnnis


    Sharkey 10 wrote: »
    personally i have come across differently off licences that between them refuse all forms of id , including a passport (how more valid can you get) . Anyone else have this problem?

    Yep, finally turned 18. Went into an off license that I knew was cheaper, placed a bottle of JD on the counter. Got asked for ID as I knew I would, handed over my passport and was told they couldn't take it. I told them where to stick it and headed up to the off license I used when I was underage.


  • Options
    #17
    Fionn MacCool
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,275 ✭✭✭Fionn MacCool


    Adyx wrote: »
    They do have to ask you for id. Unless the law has been changed recently, it is against the law for a person aged 18 to 23 to be on a licensed premises without id (proof of age).

    You could be right, although that would be downright ridiculous. Say I own a pub and a close family friend comes in who I know is 20 years of age. He has to have ID on him? No.

    Also "18-23" seems a pretty arbitrary range.

    In fact the more I think about it, the more I think that's bollocks.


  • Options
    #18
    Fionn MacCool
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,275 ✭✭✭Fionn MacCool


    JayEnnis wrote: »
    Yep, finally turned 18. Went into an off license that I knew was cheaper, placed a bottle of JD on the counter. Got asked for ID as I knew I would, handed over my passport and was told they couldn't take it. I told them where to stick it and headed up to the off license I used when I was underage.
    People would want to take heed of this. You always get told "they're just doing their job, they are in the right, you are wrong, deal with it", because these days customer relations clearly count for ****e. It's not about deciding to serve minors to make a quick buck, it's about treating your customers with a bit of respect: if a person who looks in their 20s is there wanting to buy a few cans of beer, he has his college ID card saying he's 22, several bank cards with his name on, and a driving license saying he's 22, how about you don't be a ****ing jobsworth and just serve the guy? 99% chance he is not under 18 and you are not breaking the law.


  • Options
    #19
    Sharkey 10
    Closed Accounts Posts: 552 ✭✭✭Sharkey 10


    Adyx wrote: »
    They do have to ask you for id. Unless the law has been changed recently, it is against the law for a person aged 18 to 23 to be on a licensed premises without id (proof of age).

    How do you prove your 23?


  • Options
    #20
    aidan24326
    Registered Users Posts: 5,925 ✭✭✭aidan24326


    Sharkey 10 wrote: »
    personally i have come across differently off licences that between them refuse all forms of id , including a passport (how more valid can you get) . Anyone else have this problem?

    Haven't heard of that now, are you sure they were refusing you solely on the basis of age/id? Not doubting you or anything but that just sounds rather bizarre. A valid passport HAS to be accpeted. It's the standard legally-recognised form of personal identification in just about every bloody country on the planet.

    If someone refused to accept my passport as a proof of id (or age in the OP's case) I would stand my ground and call the gardai right there, as the only way they can refuse to accept it is if it's out of date, which they would tell you, or if they think it's fake which is an issue that would require the guards attention anyway.


  • Options
    #21
    kilkenny_kid
    Registered Users Posts: 48 ✭kilkenny_kid


    It's terrible I tell ya, least they can identify what jizz type you might be.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #22
    Fionn MacCool
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,275 ✭✭✭Fionn MacCool


    aidan24326 wrote: »
    Haven't heard of that now, are you sure they were refusing you solely on the basis of age/id? Not doubting you or anything but that just sounds rather bizarre. A valid passport HAS to be accpeted. It's the standard legally-recognised form of personal identification in just about every bloody country on the planet.

    If someone refused to accept my passport as a proof of id (or age in the OP's case) I would stand my ground and call the gardai right there, as the only way they can refuse to accept it is if it's out of date, which they would tell you, or if they think it's fake which is an issue that would require the guards attention anyway.

    Like I said, the woman in Aldi refused to serve the guy in front of me (who clearly looked in his 20s) something like 2 cans of lager because he didn't have an AgeCard. There's no point calling the Gardai because I'm pretty sure they have the right to refuse you for any reason, it's their shop after all. Best thing to do is just let them know what a prick they are and take your business elsewhere.

    Maybe it's just my experience but it seems to mainly be the Eastern European women who are like this. Hardly ever get ID'd by Irish workers or guys, but the women seem to work like robots without any discretion or common sense.


  • Options
    #23
    mikemac
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,986 ✭✭✭✭mikemac


    aidan24326 wrote: »
    If someone refused to accept my passport as a proof of id (or age in the OP's case) I would stand my ground and call the gardai right there, as the only way they can refuse to accept it is if it's out of date, which they would tell you, or if they think it's fake which is an issue that would require the guards attention anyway.

    What do want the gardai to do?
    Even if they arrive and confirm the passport is valid the shop can still refuse to serve you.

    They don't have serve anyone unless you can prove it falls under discrimination legislation

    Fionn MacCool wrote: »
    Best thing to do is just let them know what a prick they are and take your business elsewhere.

    No, what you do is find a manager. The person on the till doesn't set policy. Complain to the correct person


  • Options
    #24
    DeVore
    Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 32,387 Mod ✭✭✭✭DeVore


    Sea Sharp wrote: »
    Also it's illegal to take your passport out for non-essential use.
    Madness.
    A driver's licence is probably your best bet. The ID for which it is ironically p1ss easy to create a fake.
    And if you dont drive??


    I lost my passport once and had to get a replacement. They asked me for a drivers license but I dont drive. Then they said they couldnt issue a passport, then they changed their minds and said I needed a letter from the cops. I went to my local cop-shop who dont know me from adam and told them who I was and without ID they wrote me a letter. That got me the passport (I think with a copy of my birthcert).

    There's nothing wrong with a national identity card PER SE... it what its used for later and what is done with the information collected that is wrong.

    DeV.


  • Options
    #25
    Fionn MacCool
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,275 ✭✭✭Fionn MacCool


    The whole alcohol serving thing is a bit of a can of worms.

    Under what grounds is it ok to tell someone to piss off because they are under 21 (and have proved themselves to be over 18)?

    Pubs aren't allowed to have a 'no tinkers' sign on the door, or a 'no blacks' sign, so why is 'Over 21s' ok?


  • Options
    #26
    johnmcdnl
    Registered Users Posts: 3,739 ✭✭✭johnmcdnl


    Fionn MacCool wrote: »
    The whole alcohol serving thing is a bit of a can of worms.

    Under what grounds is it ok to tell someone to piss off because they are under 21 (and have proved themselves to be over 18)?

    Pubs aren't allowed to have a 'no tinkers' sign on the door, or a 'no blacks' sign, so why is 'Over 21s' ok?

    because racism is obviously wrong but people over 21 run the country and establishments and people under 21 don't have a say in the making of any policies or anything...

    ageism is just as wrong as racism in my eyes but just think - once your over 18 do you give a ****e that someone under 18 cant' get into a club - Nope you laugh at them - just like when you turn 21 you'll laugh at people over 18 but under 21 because they can't get in....

    it is completely wrong but u21s don't have a say anywhere really so that's the way it's going to be because the law does allow for clubs to prevent access u21s...


  • Options
    #27
    aidan24326
    Registered Users Posts: 5,925 ✭✭✭aidan24326


    Fionn MacCool wrote: »
    Maybe it's just my experience but it seems to mainly be the Eastern European women who are like this. Hardly ever get ID'd by Irish workers or guys, but the women seem to work like robots without any discretion or common sense.

    I know what you mean, this robotic 'computer says no' type of customer service is commonplace these days, and it's not certainly restricted to eastern european women either.

    feelingstressed wrote: »
    What do want the gardai to do?
    Even if they arrive and confirm the passport is valid the shop can still refuse to serve you.

    They don't have serve anyone unless you can prove it falls under discrimination legislation

    I'm aware they don't have to serve anybody. I was just pointing out that they can't refuse to accept a vaild passport, if that was the only reason. It would have to be for something else. I agree that asking to see the mangager would probably be the best course of action so as to establish exactly why it is that you are being refused. (and hopefully said manager would then defuse the situation by serving you once your passport was bona fide and there wasn't any other good reason not to serve you - such as being abusive, very drunk or whatver).


  • Options
    #28
    Fionn MacCool
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,275 ✭✭✭Fionn MacCool


    johnmcdnl wrote: »
    because racism is obviously wrong but people over 21 run the country and establishments and people under 21 don't have a say in the making of any policies or anything...
    Last time I checked Dáil Éireann wouldn't exactly pass for a United Colours of Benetton advert.
    ageism is just as wrong as racism in my eyes but just think - once your over 18 do you give a ****e that someone under 18 cant' get into a club - Nope you laugh at them - just like when you turn 21 you'll laugh at people over 18 but under 21 because they can't get in....
    Funnily enough I'm not like that. I actually refuse to give places with those type of rules my service. Same way I own a pair of shoes but anywhere that insists I must wear them can **** off too. I must be in the minority though.


  • Options
    #29
    Fionn MacCool
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,275 ✭✭✭Fionn MacCool


    feelingstressed wrote: »
    No, what you do is find a manager. The person on the till doesn't set policy. Complain to the correct person

    Again, maybe it's just me, but if I was said employee I would recognise "don't accept passports" as being total bollocks, and serve the person anyway (providing I thought they were over 18). In the slim chance that a manager took exception to this and fired me, I would kick up absolute hell and take them to a tribunal.

    Unfortunately in this current climate, people live in fear of losing their jobs while managers sit back laughing at the amount of control they have over employees.


  • Options
    #30
    Bottle_of_Smoke
    Registered Users Posts: 9,770 ✭✭✭Bottle_of_Smoke


    Fionn MacCool wrote: »
    Went into the local friendly Garda station the other day to pick up a form for an AgeCard, as I'm sick of having to worry about bringing my passport out. They told me they don't give them out anymore as you have to complete the form with them because (and I don't see how this has anything to do with not giving them out) "people were using them as a form of ID".

    I asked "is that not pretty much what they are?" and she told me that they were just 'proof of age' cards (clue's in the name I guess).

    How on earth is a card with a great big feckin photo of you, with several security features, one which you get through the government after providing a birth cert and passport NOT a form of identification?

    Hang on, are you sure they didn't mean they wouldn't let you take the form as people were using *that* as an ID or they do not issue age cards anymore?


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #31
    Fionn MacCool
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,275 ✭✭✭Fionn MacCool


    Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »
    Hang on, are you sure they didn't mean they wouldn't let you take the form as people were using *that* as an ID or they do not issue age cards anymore?

    lol no, they were not using the form for an agecard as ID...

    And they are issuing AgeCards, but you can't just pick up a form, you need to fill it in there with them.

    Like I said, I don't understand how the reason she gave has anything to do with not being able to give out forms, but it's not like you can expect the Gardai to provide you with a valid, sensible reason for anything much.


Advertisement