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Sick Pay Policy

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    #32
    tenifan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 523 ✭✭✭tenifan


    Larry Wildman wrote: »
    That's what your annual leave is for. Your behaviour is disgraceful and in my view you should be fired for it. The bottom line is that you're being dishonest and untrustworthy. Pretending that you're sick and skiving off is lying - It's dishonest and morally wrong.

    Not at all. They don't pay me a pension and if I had a long-term illness, well they wouldn't pay it either. So both of us are reasonable happy with the current terms.

    If I didn't take the odd sickie, it might add to my stress levels. And ya know, sometimes I don't sleep very well because of work, so when things quiet down a bit I take a sick day. It compensates me for stress.. so my sick days taken are due to stress. So what if my self-prescribed treatment is to have lie in and go for a coffee and a scone?


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    #33
    Larry Wildman
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,460 ✭✭✭Larry Wildman


    tenifan wrote: »
    Not at all. They don't pay me a pension and if I had a long-term illness, well they wouldn't pay it either. So both of us are reasonable happy with the current terms.

    If I didn't take the odd sickie, it might add to my stress levels. And ya know, sometimes I don't sleep very well because of work, so when things quiet down a bit I take a sick day. It compensates me for stress.. so my sick days taken are due to stress. So what if my self-prescribed treatment is to have lie in and go for a coffee and a scone?

    It was a good windup while it lasted.

    Now I know you're kidding.


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    #34
    pablo128
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,221 ✭✭✭pablo128


    tenifan wrote: »
    Not at all. They don't pay me a pension and if I had a long-term illness, well they wouldn't pay it either. So both of us are reasonable happy with the current terms.

    If I didn't take the odd sickie, it might add to my stress levels. And ya know, sometimes I don't sleep very well because of work, so when things quiet down a bit I take a sick day. It compensates me for stress.. so my sick days taken are due to stress. So what if my self-prescribed treatment is to have lie in and go for a coffee and a scone?
    Well consider this. So you take your 5 'sick' days off, and put your feet up eating scones. After they are used up, and your 'stress' levels return to normal, what happens if you get a bad dose of something that lays you up for a few days.

    Now that's what called poetic justice. Hopefully it never happens to you.:rolleyes:


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    #35
    Tar.Aldarion
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,082 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tar.Aldarion


    Mrs OBumble wrote: »
    Fundamentally, an employment contract is an agreement to exchange labour (or labour+knowledge-and-skill) for cash. If you become unable to meet your side of the deal, it's not really fair that the employer should have to meet theirs.

    Indeed, I plan to bring up maternity leave with management immediately. ;)


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    #36
    tenifan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 523 ✭✭✭tenifan


    pablo128 wrote: »
    Well consider this. So you take your 5 'sick' days off, and put your feet up eating scones. After they are used up, and your 'stress' levels return to normal, what happens if you get a bad dose of something that lays you up for a few days.

    Now that's what called poetic justice. Hopefully it never happens to you.:rolleyes:

    I'd rather use my sick days than hoard them in the off chance I got sick.


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    #37
    davo10
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,926 ✭✭✭davo10


    OP, as an employer I can tell you I do not pay sick leave, it's not legally required and the nature of my business means I have to employ a replacement so why should I have to pay two people at the same time?

    The second reason could not be better illustrated than by this poster, if an employee is paid the same whether at work or not, the temptation is there to not be at work.
    tenifan wrote: »

    If I didn't take the odd sickie............so when things quiet down a bit I take a sick day. It compensates me for stress.. so my sick days taken are due to stress. So what if my self-prescribed treatment is to have lie in and go for a coffee and a scone?

    The reality is that it is very unusual for employers to pay sick leave and if it is a requirement for you to take a job, then you may be searching a very long time. Don't forget to ask that question at interview, if you are in a hurry to leave, it is a great way of drawing the interview to an end.


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    #38
    greendom
    Registered Users Posts: 16,382 ✭✭✭✭greendom


    Sick days, if paid should be just that. Employers should demand a doctor's cert for an employee to qualify for sick leave. That would stop the situation mentioned at Tesco.


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    #39
    Qualitymark
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,824 ✭✭✭Qualitymark


    It's a buyer's market at the moment, and firms are getting what they can out of it. If the job is one you want, take it. And then keep an eye out for the same work in a firm that has better working conditions.
    You might also consider taking out one of those private insurances against illness that puts you out of work. Saved a friend's bacon when his health collapsed.
    When the economy starts to improve, conditions for working people will improve - people will be able to move jobs more easily, and companies will start to get sense about making a workplace a good place to work.
    (Have you noticed that job ads now often don't have salary quoted, whereas in the seller's market of a few years ago nice salary and terms & conditions were dangled temptingly in every ad?)


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    #40
    The J Stands for Jay
    Registered Users Posts: 5,650 ✭✭✭The J Stands for Jay


    I've worked for companies that have paid sick pay and i've worked for companies that don't. Buy i've never worked for a company that gave a set number of sick days. It sounds like additional holidays. No wonder it gets abused.


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    #41
    LegacyUser
    Registered Users Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    davo10 wrote: »
    OP, as an employer I can tell you I do not pay sick leave, it's not legally required and the nature of my business means I have to employ a replacement so why should I have to pay two people at the same time?

    The second reason could not be better illustrated than by this poster, if an employee is paid the same whether at work or not, the temptation is there to not be at work.



    The reality is that it is very unusual for employers to pay sick leave and if it is a requirement for you to take a job, then you may be searching a very long time. Don't forget to ask that question at interview, if you are in a hurry to leave, it is a great way of drawing the interview to an end.

    In my experience I've only ever being paid for sick leave, I've never of not being paid for sick leave and all my friends would be getting paid for sick. I've only ever worked for large companies. I don't think I will be searching a long time as I know most decent companies do pay sick leave - I can understand how a small business might find it difficult/impossible.

    As i said earlier tis more to do with the psychology of the situation - I know they are looking at me long term - I certainly don't feel that way and will leave at the drop of a hat. They can shag off trying to ring me if I am ever out sick - in all likelihood if I am out sick I am interviewing elsewhere. I don't like having this attitude/feeling but that's life.

    I've learnt my lesson and I'll take it on the chin.


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    #42
    Qualitymark
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,824 ✭✭✭Qualitymark


    McGaggs wrote: »
    I've worked for companies that have paid sick pay and i've worked for companies that don't. Buy i've never worked for a company that gave a set number of sick days. It sounds like additional holidays. No wonder it gets abused.

    Almost all the companies I've worked for gave set numbers of sick days. They weren't abused. People were professional; they knew they were covered if they got the usual annual flu or two, but didn't go sick unless they were sick.


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    #43
    LegacyUser
    Registered Users Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    Qualitymark wrote: »
    It's a buyer's market at the moment, and firms are getting what they can out of it. If the job is one you want, take it. And then keep an eye out for the same work in a firm that has better working conditions.
    You might also consider taking out one of those private insurances against illness that puts you out of work. Saved a friend's bacon when his health collapsed.
    When the economy starts to improve, conditions for working people will improve - people will be able to move jobs more easily, and companies will start to get sense about making a workplace a good place to work.
    (Have you noticed that job ads now often don't have salary quoted, whereas in the seller's market of a few years ago nice salary and terms & conditions were dangled temptingly in every ad?)

    Yeah that is exactly the way I am going to have to look at it - just a bit hurt and upset about it but that's the way it goes these days.


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    #44
    LegacyUser
    Registered Users Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    Qualitymark wrote: »
    Almost all the companies I've worked for gave set numbers of sick days. They weren't abused. People were professional; they knew they were covered if they got the usual annual flu or two, but didn't go sick unless they were sick.

    Thanks!

    That is the set up I have being used too - not being sick in years but always knew twas there and the company was somewhat looking out for me.


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    #45
    TimeToShine
    Registered Users Posts: 4,881 ✭✭✭TimeToShine


    pablo128 wrote: »
    I posted earlier about being in a meeting in Tesco warehouse between management, workers and union. The above paragraph was basically what Tesco were telling their workers.


    Where were these lads getting doctors notes for 12 weeks worth of illness?


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    #46
    No Pants
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,347 ✭✭✭No Pants


    pablo128 wrote: »
    Well consider this. So you take your 5 'sick' days off, and put your feet up eating scones. After they are used up, and your 'stress' levels return to normal, what happens if you get a bad dose of something that lays you up for a few days.
    A dodgy scone?


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    #47
    pablo128
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,221 ✭✭✭pablo128


    TimeToShine wrote: »
    Where were these lads getting doctors notes for 12 weeks worth of illness?
    A doctor will write a note for whatever you want in exchange for 50 euro. You would be naive to think otherwise.


  • Options
    #48
    pablo128
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,221 ✭✭✭pablo128


    No Pants wrote: »
    A dodgy scone?
    Wouldn't that be ironic?:pac:


  • Options
    #49
    martingriff
    Registered Users Posts: 10,685 ✭✭✭✭martingriff


    I think that companies are seeing people take time of on there sick days as if it an add on to there annual leave. They also see that some doctors just write sick notes so they see what is the best way to stop this is to have in the T&C no statuary sick entitlement however I would say the companies for someone who lets say breaks there leg etc would see this as a reason for being out so while they might not pay you full wage might pay a reduced rate


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    #50
    Qualitymark
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,824 ✭✭✭Qualitymark


    martingriff wrote: »
    I think that companies are seeing people take time of on there sick days as if it an add on to there annual leave. They also see that some doctors just write sick notes so they see what is the best way to stop this is to have in the T&C no statuary sick entitlement however I would say the companies for someone who lets say breaks there leg etc would see this as a reason for being out so while they might not pay you full wage might pay a reduced rate

    Surely the best thing is to hire professional people and arrange proper pay and conditions and respect on both side? Then no one is going to take advantage.


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    #51
    Mrs OBumble
    Registered Users Posts: 25,671 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    sickpay policy wrote: »
    ...but you are looking at things in a very cold,legal light shall we say.

    ...

    Rightly or wrongly I don't feel this is fair and it will be there in the back of my mind. Am I going to give the company 120% like I would normally do? Honestly no as I mentioned before if I've an accident they will not help me in any way, shape or form - again I get that is their right and off with them. I am not busting my ass for any company that operates this way - again tis just the psychology of the thing as I am pretty sure I won't even call in sick in the next year!!

    Jasus I was entitled to sick pay in Tesco's stacking shelves at 16!

    Either way I'll just have to suck it up and get on with it, but I don't think they'll ever have my full commitment if that makes sense - I'll do my job well of course but they'll never have me fully if that makes any sense to people.


    I actually find employment law here a bit harsh: IMHO employers should legally have to pay the first few days until the Illness Benefit kicks in.

    And TBH, since I've been in Ireland I've only ever given 100% of what is being paid for. There are a few factors at work here, but the relatively hard-ass edge of Irish labour law is definitely one of the. (mmm .. except one six month job in the non-profit sector which got a lot more out of me than they were paying for, due to a lack of other jobs at the time.)



    Sometimes I do play up the cold legal line here, because it helps people to understand what employers may be thinking about :) If everyone's all warm and fuzzy and agreeing with your, then it might make you feel justified, but won't help you focus your mind about the realities of the situation.

    Good luck with the job hunting: if you can find someone else quickly, then one option is to leave within only a few weeks, and not to even mention the job on your CV in future.


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    #52
    pow wow
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,288 ✭✭✭pow wow


    I find your repeated references to the 'psychology' of the relationship with an employer who doesn't pay sick pay quite odd - if you don't like the terms then don't accept the job.

    Just like you question the kind of employer who doesn't pay sick pay, I question the kind of employee who feels it's an egregious policy to not pay sick pay when the welfare state offers financial support in such circumstances and the employee was aware of the policy before they joined the company.

    I have worked with and managed employees who were convinced they gave 120%+ so the company 'owed' them, and it wasn't a pleasant experience as either colleague or manager.


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    #53
    LegacyUser
    Registered Users Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    pow wow wrote: »
    I find your repeated references to the 'psychology' of the relationship with an employer who doesn't pay sick pay quite odd - if you don't like the terms then don't accept the job.

    Just like you question the kind of employer who doesn't pay sick pay, I question the kind of employee who feels it's an egregious policy to not pay sick pay when the welfare state offers financial support in such circumstances and the employee was aware of the policy before they joined the company.

    I have worked with and managed employees who were convinced they gave 120%+ so the company 'owed' them, and it wasn't a pleasant experience as either colleague or manager.

    I only learned of this term after I gave in current notice and I just noticed it reading over contact at the weekend - that was my fault. I had never heard of a large company like this not paying sick pay so it didn't cross my mind. I get definitely like how a small corner shop or small business couldn't afford sick pay.

    You question the mind of an employee that questions sick pay not being paid - I question a large company that does not pay sick pay that is making millions and offers no benefits, but I had to do 3 interviews and I imagine will expect a lot from me. It appears other would support my opinion here and others would support your opinion.

    Also I don't think company owes me 120% at all - I believe sick pay is normal and that is my belief. Others have different beliefs and that's cool too - what can often be normal to one person is crazy to another!

    What i don't understand is some people getting on their high horse/all angry about it - this just a general internte chat and I was looking for a some opinions. I got them and I think thread should be closed now it at possible?!

    I am just going to bounce into my new job, leave this behind me, be positive and keep an eye out for a job that suits me more :)

    Cheers to all contributors.


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    #54
    TimeToShine
    Registered Users Posts: 4,881 ✭✭✭TimeToShine


    pablo128 wrote: »
    A doctor will write a note for whatever you want in exchange for 50 euro. You would be naive to think otherwise.

    For 3 months? I'd love to see that. Do you have them write that you're getting your annual bout of Jaundice?

    A few days I would agree with you but 12 weeks is crazy.


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    #55
    No Pants
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,347 ✭✭✭No Pants


    pow wow wrote: »
    I find your repeated references to the 'psychology' of the relationship with an employer who doesn't pay sick pay quite odd - if you don't like the terms then don't accept the job.
    I think it's in reference to the psychological contract between employer and employee, it does exist and can be damaged or broken when expectations cannot match. However, you're correct as in this case, no such contract yet exists.


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    #56
    pow wow
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,288 ✭✭✭pow wow


    No Pants wrote: »
    I think it's in reference to the psychological contract between employer and employee, it does exist and can be damaged or broken when expectations cannot match. However, you're correct as in this case, no such contract yet exists.

    That's my point, it's not as if the OP is in situ as an employee and this has been thrust upon them - it's been made clear prior to there being any relationship. The OP obviously feels this isn't to their liking etc. but it's the reality of the offer they've been made. Given the stock the OP is placing in the psychological element, I'd think long and hard about getting into a relationship with that employer.


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    #57
    LegacyUser
    Registered Users Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    pow wow wrote: »
    That's my point, it's not as if the OP is in situ as an employee and this has been thrust upon them - it's been made clear prior to there being any relationship. The OP obviously feels this isn't to their liking etc. but it's the reality of the offer they've been made. Given the stock the OP is placing in the psychological element, I'd think long and hard about getting into a relationship with that employer.

    I agree 100% - I do place massive emphasis on the psyhcological contract - the unsaid things - I thought sick pay was one of these but boy was I wrong.

    Bit too late now but that is my lesson learnt.

    Time to move and I have arranged interview already before I start new role! BOOM!


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    #58
    Wanderer2010
    Registered Users Posts: 6,663 ✭✭✭Wanderer2010


    greendom wrote: »
    Sick days, if paid should be just that. Employers should demand a doctor's cert for an employee to qualify for sick leave. That would stop the situation mentioned at Tesco.

    You think a sick cert from a doctor would stop people taking false sick days? Thats very naive. Any employee can walk into a doctors and say "Theres a bad cold going around, I feel the onset of it and dont feel up to work for a few days" or "My back is sore and I need to rest it a while before I return to my job" and bingo, you have your cert. A lot of doctors out there love people like this. In, out, no hassle. Yes they probably know they are lying but they dont care. A few other doctors might ask a few awkward questions and a few more might even refuse or make it difficult by referring you further.

    But the majority of doctors will just sign you off. Thats a fact of life. Certs are proof that you require sick pay, they are not proof that you are actually sick..


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