Are you going to pay the household charge? [Part 1]

constitutionus · 26-03-2012 10:07pm

prinz wrote: »

No, public, private top down, it filters right down to Joe Soap who thinks they are entitled to free water, free services, free national TV services, extremely generous welfare, etc etc

and here i thought general taxation paid for that !

didnt know there was a magic clean water tree .

prinz · 26-03-2012 10:08pm

constitutionus wrote: »

and here i thought general taxation paid for that ! didnt know there was a magic clean water tree .

And what percentage of the population isn't even in the tax net?

gerryo777 · 26-03-2012 10:09pm

prinz wrote: »

No, public, private top down, it filters right down to Joe Soap who thinks they are entitled to free water, free services, free national TV services, extremely generous welfare, etc etc

Where do we get these 'free' things you talk about?

The_Thing · 26-03-2012 10:10pm

I just want to say thanks to the poster who added the 'may they die roarin' tag to this thread - my sentiments exactly.

constitutionus · 26-03-2012 10:10pm

prinz wrote: »

And what percentage of the population isn't even in the tax net?

everyone !

you know a way to avoid VAT ?

dvpower · 26-03-2012 10:10pm

constitutionus wrote: »

and here i thought general taxation paid for that !

Unfortunately not - these days we borrow from the EU/IMF for that.

prinz · 26-03-2012 10:11pm

constitutionus wrote: »

everyone ! you know a way to avoid VAT ?

Oh good jaysus. Píssing in the breeze I see.

We complain about TV license.. it's more expensive other places.
We complain about property taxes.... they pay them other places.
We complain about... and so on and so on.

Freddie59 · 26-03-2012 10:12pm

donalg1 wrote: »

Seriously?

You complain about the state of the footpaths and then moan that paying €100. Do you not think the reason that the footpaths / roads are in bad condition is because there is not enough money to fix them.

If you are complaining about the lack of services provided by Local Authorities I assume you have paid your Household Charge?

These footpaths have been in this state for years my friend. Even during the bubble. Why? Are we not entitled to complain, given the taxes I already pay. The household "charge" is a con and a ruse. Anyone who believes otherwise needs their head examined. Really.

For example, people in a Corporation house allegedly, according to the propaganda, use the same "amenities" and "public services" that I do. Yet they are exempt? FFS it's a joke.:mad:

constitutionus · 26-03-2012 10:12pm

dvpower wrote: »

Unfortunately not - these days we borrow from the EU/IMF for that.

no THATs to keep "the lads" in clover.

if we took a slash hook to spending we could balance the books over night.

seriously why the hell are we payin INCREASES in the PS ?

Freddie59 · 26-03-2012 10:13pm

lividduck wrote: »

You must have one big hole then!:D

Ghandee · 26-03-2012 10:13pm

prinz wrote: »

No, public, private top down, it filters right down to Joe Soap who thinks they are entitled to free water, free services, free national TV services, extremely generous welfare, etc etc

Free water while its undrinkable? Yes, start charging me when I dont have to buy five litre bottles for drinking purposes.

What free services so we receive or expect?

Free National TV? Not me, our tv license (reluctantly) gets paid each and every year, even though RTE claw this money in, AND ruin every fcuking show every ten mins with their advertising revenue raising exercises.

Generous Welfare, I cant comment on tbh, not on SW, never have been, although I do feel that while the cost of living in Ireland is so high, it should be higher than the likes of countries like England.

constitutionus · 26-03-2012 10:14pm

prinz wrote: »

Oh good jaysus. Píssing in the breeze I see.

We complain about TV license.. it's more expensive other places.
We complain about property taxes.... they pay them other places.
We complain about... and so on and so on.

care to make a real point or are ya just raging youve been caught out on your bullshyte ?

we pay more indirect taxe than damn near any country in the world.

you'd have to go to scandanavia to get more tax take.

gerryo777 · 26-03-2012 10:15pm

prinz wrote: »

And what percentage of the population isn't even in the tax net?

What would call 'the tax net'?

Is V.A.T not a tax?
Is road tax not a tax?
V.R.T?
Fuel Tax?
The list goes on and on.

Just because some people don't pay income tax doesn't mean they don't pay tax and just because some people are unemployed doesn't mean they don't pay tax.
Everyone here pays tax in one form or another.

This latest effort is the final straw for a hell of a lot of people, myself included.

DON'T REGISTER / DON'T PAY.

Freddie59 · 26-03-2012 10:15pm

black francis wrote: »

'Naivety' seems to be today's word, and it's a trait that seems to be in much evidence on the 'no side'.

Frightening to think that presumably some of these people were trusted with mortgages of hundreds of thousands of euro.

Red herring that mortgage comment. The naivety and gullibility of the Yes camp is truly astonishing. For example: the money will go to local authorities my hole.

It's in evidence because it is, realistically, true.

gerryo777 · 26-03-2012 10:16pm

dvpower wrote: »

Unfortunately not - these days we borrow from the EU/IMF for that.

And how are we going to pay back the EU/IMF? Through more taxes!!!

Freddie59 · 26-03-2012 10:17pm

constitutionus wrote: »

no THATs to keep "the lads" in clover.

if we took a slash hook to spending we could balance the books over night.

seriously why the hell are we payin INCREASES in the PS ?

Because the ones charged with change are the ones most affected by it - ergo nothing will change. I can't wait for the week when that €400m loan will be refused. And that day is coming.

dvpower · 26-03-2012 10:19pm

constitutionus wrote: »

if we took a slash hook to spending we could balance the books over night.

What cuts would you make to 'balance the books overnight'?

Buford Tannen · 26-03-2012 10:21pm

prinz wrote: »

We complain about property taxes.... they pay them other places.

Which other places?

Can you tell us how the economies of these other places are doing currently?

Bruthal · 26-03-2012 10:23pm

black francis wrote: »

'Naivety' seems to be today's word, and it's a trait that seems to be in much evidence on the 'no side'.

Frightening to think that presumably some of these people were trusted with mortgages of hundreds of thousands of euro.

Naive is a suitable word you use alright. They were given mortgages by banks that felt they (banks) could not lose no matter what happened. The banks are supposed to be the financial experts, not the mortgage applicants.

dvpower · 26-03-2012 10:23pm

gerryo777 wrote: »

And how are we going to pay back the EU/IMF? Through more taxes!!!

We're going to have to stop borrowing the money for our day to day spending before we can start paying down the debt.
On top of spending cuts, this is being done by raising taxes to pay for our services - like the household tax.

prinz · 26-03-2012 10:23pm

Buford Tannen wrote: »

Which other places?
Can you tell us how the economies of these other places are doing currently?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Property_tax

Knock yourself out.

tayto lover · 26-03-2012 10:26pm

alastair wrote: »

Oh yes you will. And I wagered a nice €100 to that effect a couple of weeks back.

Oh no I won't. Will go to prison instead if necessary.

Buford Tannen · 26-03-2012 10:27pm

prinz wrote: »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Property_tax

Knock yourself out.

You forgot to answer the second question

Izzy Skint · 26-03-2012 10:28pm

Freddie59 wrote: »

These footpaths have been in this state for years my friend. Even during the bubble. Why? Are we not entitled to complain, given the taxes I already pay. The household "charge" is a con and a ruse. Anyone who believes otherwise needs their head examined. Really.

For example, people in a Corporation house allegedly, according to the propaganda, use the same "amenities" and "public services" that I do. Yet they are exempt? FFS it's a joke.:mad:

good on you Freddie59, totally agree with that, there are so many unfair aspects to this tax, the greatest of which is it is being forced on people by our government and the IMF to pay gambling debts....all of you who have already paid this household tax are sheep....baaaaaa!.... bend over guys and take your fisting from europe!!....
this was your chance to say stop!...enough is enough!....tell our useless politicians to sort out our spending, sort out the corruption, bring people to justice....but no....you have decided to take a fisting from our politicians and hand over your cash....good on ye all....wastes of space...traitors to the Irish people
I want gov. to cut spending on social welfare by at least another 3 to 4 billion € right away, cut the lifetime dole entitlement etc. etc. etc. etc.....as it stands it does not pay me to go to work, any further tax increases is only taking the p!ss and will ultimately destroy what's left of the economy.....what hope is there for a society where you are better off financially sitting on your ass all day rather than going to work???.....but it appears that's what the government wants

tayto lover · 26-03-2012 10:28pm

lugha wrote: »

Ah the mystical home reference again! I am perplexed as to why the "home" should be exempt from tax.

Why not insist that you do not pay tax on your car, or your food, or clothes, or pretty much everything else? What exactly sets the home apart (and how have all of Europe got this so wrong?)

And also, why does it matter then that this is an unjust or unfair tax, if there is some fundamental reason why the home should not be taxed?

Ah same old s*** again.
My home does not use the roads - my car does.
Why should I pay for my home when others do not have to ? Same S*** back at ya.

constitutionus · 26-03-2012 10:28pm

dvpower wrote: »

What cuts would you make to 'balance the books overnight'?

straight off the top of my head?

close the 800 quangos and put control of their responsibiltieys back with the depts involved.

sack 65000 PS workers on a last in first out basis.

ya do this by closing ALL the hospitals, libraries, swimining pools , civic offices and buildings that were gifted to bertie aherns backbenchers to keep them sweet from 2000 onwards.

abolish childrens allowance and replace it with a payment recieved once a year that you have to apply for with proof that your not earning over 35k a year.

abolilsh the foreign aid budget till were solvent again.

cap all wages and pensions to 35k a year in the PS in ALL sectors using 100% taxation on amouts over that till were solvent again and then review increases ONLY in relation to sectoral norms in comparable economies.

anyone that doesnt like that gets an out to their contract.

revaluate all contracts issued by gov over the last 12 years to see if its merrited or a payoff by previous govs to keep votes.

cancel those not viable.

and that just to start.

dont confuse me with some lefty .

gerryo777 · 26-03-2012 10:31pm

dvpower wrote: »

We're going to have to stop borrowing the money for our day to day spending before we can start paying down the debt.
On top of spending cuts, this is being done by raising taxes to pay for our services - like the household tax.

How much of the €80 odd billion we're borrowing went to unsecured bondholders and bankrupt banks?
And they are bankrupt, both financially and morally!

dvpower · 26-03-2012 10:34pm

constitutionus wrote: »

straight off the top of my head?

close the 800 quangos and put control of their responsibiltieys back with the depts involved.

sack 65000 PS workers on a last in first out basis.

ya do this by closing ALL the hospitals, libraries, swimining pools , civic offices and buildings that were gifted to bertie aherns backbenchers to keep them sweet from 2000 onwards.

abolish childrens allowance and replace it with a payment recieved once a year that you have to apply for with proof that your not earning over 35k a year.

abolilsh the foreign aid budget till were solvent again.

cap all wages and pensions to 35k a year in the PS in ALL sectors using 100% taxation on amouts over that till were solvent again and then review increases ONLY in relation to sectoral norms in comparable economies.

anyone that doesnt like that gets an out to their contract.

revaluate all contracts issued by gov over the last 12 years to see if its merrited or a payoff by previous govs to keep votes.

cancel those not viable.

and that just to start.

There is zero chance of getting anything approaching this through the Dail - you are completely out of sync with the electorate. But feel free to campaign on this platform in the next GE.

constitutionus wrote: »

dont confuse me with some lefty .

I think you're safe.

eth0 · 26-03-2012 10:35pm

constitutionus wrote: »

and here i thought general taxation paid for that !

didnt know there was a magic clean water tree .

All the things that don't benefit you in any way and most likely wouldn't affect your life if they were gone are paid by general taxation.

Everything that you as an ordinary person (not on the dole) see any benefit of is paid by motor tax and this impending property tax, or so they'd like to let on. If you're not getting any handouts then everything can be written down as a 'local' service.

gerryo777 · 26-03-2012 10:36pm

constitutionus wrote: »

straight off the top of my head?

close the 800 quangos and put control of their responsibiltieys back with the depts involved.

sack 65000 PS workers on a last in first out basis.

ya do this by closing ALL the hospitals, libraries, swimining pools , civic offices and buildings that were gifted to bertie aherns backbenchers to keep them sweet from 2000 onwards.

abolish childrens allowance and replace it with a payment recieved once a year that you have to apply for with proof that your not earning over 35k a year.

abolilsh the foreign aid budget till were solvent again.

cap all wages and pensions to 35k a year in the PS in ALL sectors using 100% taxation on amouts over that till were solvent again and then review increases ONLY in relation to sectoral norms in comparable economies.

anyone that doesnt like that gets an out to their contract.

revaluate all contracts issued by gov over the last 12 years to see if its merrited or a payoff by previous govs to keep votes.

cancel those not viable.

and that just to start.

dont confuse me with some lefty .

If jack o'connor read this his head would just, explode!!

smash · 26-03-2012 10:36pm

Anyone wrote: »

Who cleans the streets, who tidys the parks, who cleans the water, who repairs the roads, who repairs drains, I can go on and on and on.

streets are filthy, roads are in bits, parks are dirty, drains are constantly blocked, water pipes are burst all over the country etc etc. none of the service jobs are being carried out to any standard at present. It's not from lack of funding, it's from lack of interest and skills of the council workers. Before spending money on old rope, the system needs to be fixed!

prinz wrote: »

laugh wrote: »

This argument is idiocy, our other taxes paid for these things until now, paye, vat etc,...

They didn't. Hence the reason our country is running a deficit.

They did. 170m was recently withdrawn from council funding. So now even with property tax at 100% compliance it will still be down 10.

dxhound2005 · 26-03-2012 10:38pm

Izzy Skint wrote: »

good on you Freddie59, totally agree with that, there are so many unfair aspects to this tax, the greatest of which is it is being forced on people by our government and the IMF to pay gambling debts....all of you who have already paid this household tax are sheep....baaaaaa!.... bend over guys and take your fisting from europe!!....
this was your chance to say stop!...enough is enough!....tell our useless politicians to sort out our spending, sort out the corruption, bring people to justice....but no....you have decided to take a fisting from our politicians and hand over your cash....good on ye all....wastes of space...traitors to the Irish people
I want gov. to cut spending on social welfare by at least another 3 to 4 billion € right away, cut the lifetime dole entitlement etc. etc. etc. etc.....as it stands it does not pay me to go to work, any further tax increases is only taking the p!ss and will ultimately destroy what's left of the economy.....what hope is there for a society where you are better off financially sitting on your ass all day rather than going to work???.....but it appears that's what the government wants

Dont forget to cash your Child Benefit next Tuesday. How much are you getting €140, €280, €428 more?. Nice bit of tax free money for you there courtesy of the sheep. How much do you want to see cut from that?

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/social_welfare_payments/social_welfare_payments_to_families_and_children/child_benefit.html#l62fd2

constitutionus · 26-03-2012 10:38pm

dvpower wrote: »

There is zero chance of getting anything approaching this through the Dail - you are completely out of sync with the electorate. But feel free to campaign on this platform in the next GE.

I think you're safe.

oh whats the matter.

sad i actually answered your little trick question hoping to out me as some lefty financial illiterate ?

were being asked to pay these taxes to keep enda and co in clover.

i wont fecking do it anymore than i can help.

you asked what id do, i answered.

YOUR solution is to keep over paying the best paid politcal class in europe.

well feck that.

gerryo777 · 26-03-2012 10:40pm

dvpower wrote: »

There is zero chance of getting anything approaching this through the Dail - you are completely out of sync with the PS unions. But feel free to campaign on this platform in the next GE.

I think you're safe.

Fixed that for you.

dvpower · 26-03-2012 10:40pm

gerryo777 wrote: »

How much of the €80 odd billion we're borrowing went to unsecured bondholders and bankrupt banks?

Far too much. Its a pity about the deficit. If we didn't have to borrow €18bn a year, we might have been in a stronger position to deal with unsecured bondholders.

constitutionus · 26-03-2012 10:42pm

gerryo777 wrote: »

If jack o'connor read this his head would just, explode!!

that fukker and his ilk have ALOT to answer for.

partnership was the biggest scam in the history of the state.

they confused "Best interest of their members" with massive amounts of money.

now its come back to bite them on the arse.

i cant see anyway croke park will survive the next year (i.e next may 13 or so) . itll come down to pay cuts or redundancies in the end.

more than likely both .

they ****ed their members up royally

dvpower · 26-03-2012 10:43pm

constitutionus wrote: »

oh whats the matter.

sad i actually answered your little trick question hoping to out me as some lefty financial illiterate ?

And you went and confirmed yourself as some extreme right wing financial illiterate.

Ghandee · 26-03-2012 10:44pm

robbie7730 wrote: »

Naive is a suitable word you use alright. They were given mortgages by banks that felt they (banks) could not lose no matter what happened. The banks are supposed to be the financial experts, not the mortgage applicants.

Couldn't have put it better myself.

My personal favourite was this gaff though

black francis wrote: »

Yeah, you're right, we haven't got the rest of the UK to subsidise us.

George Osborne confirmed this morning that Britain would provide around £7bn to support Ireland as part of the international rescue package requested last night.

His comments came as a British thinktank said UK taxpayers should not "cough up" £7bn to help bail out the Irish economy, and eurosceptic Conservative MPs also voiced their opposition.

To placate eurosceptic critics, the chancellor insisted that Britain would not be part of a permanent bailout mechanism for eurozone countries.

"What we have committed to do is to obviously be partners as shareholders in the IMF in an international rescue of the Irish economy," Osborne told BBC Radio 4's Today programme. "But we have also made a commitment to consider a bilateral loan that reflects the fact we are not part of the euro… but Ireland is our very closest economic neighbour."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2010/nov/22/ireland-bailout-uk-lends-seven-billion

Naive is one word you could use......

gerryo777 · 26-03-2012 10:45pm

dvpower wrote: »

Far too much. Its a pity about the deficit. If we didn't have to borrow €18bn a year, we might have been in a stronger position to deal with unsecured bondholders.

In a way, your admitting that this unjust and unfair property tax is being used, at least in part, to pay back money that was borrowed to give to bondholders and bankrupt banks.

Don't think the deficit will be half as big this year as we are not,as yet, putting more money into the banks. I think it was €10 billion last year.

constitutionus · 26-03-2012 10:45pm

dvpower wrote: »

And you went and confirmed yourself as some extreme right wing financial illiterate.

well give us YOUR anwer lad !

explain how your gonna get 15 billion in taxes like this?

there NOTHING right wing about prudent fiscal spending. all im mooting will put us back to 2000 or so.

and THAT was the celtic tiger.

dvpower · 26-03-2012 10:46pm

gerryo777 wrote: »

If jack o'connor read this his head would just, explode!!

From the laughing.

gerryo777 · 26-03-2012 10:49pm

dvpower wrote: »

From the laughing.

Exactly that, and that's the biggest part of the problem, he knows that the government haven't the balls to stand up to them.

The IMF and the EU on the other hand............

Chucky the tree · 26-03-2012 10:49pm

gerryo777 wrote: »

In a way, your admitting that this unjust and unfair property tax is being used, at least in part, to pay back money that was borrowed to give to bondholders and bankrupt banks.

Don't think the deficit will be half as big this year as we are not,as yet, putting more money into the banks. I think it was €10 billion last year.

The deficit will be €4bn less according to Budget.

dvpower · 26-03-2012 10:49pm

gerryo777 wrote: »

In a way, your admitting that this unjust and unfair property tax is being used, at least in part, to pay back money that was borrowed to give to bondholders and bankrupt banks.

You have an active imagination, I'll give you that.

gerryo777 wrote: »

Don't think the deficit will be half as big this year as we are not,as yet, putting more money into the banks. I think it was €10 billion last year.

€25bn I think, but €6bn of this was bank recaps

true · 26-03-2012 10:50pm

constitutionus wrote: »

that fukker and his ilk have ALOT to answer for.

partnership was the biggest scam in the history of the state.

they confused "Best interest of their members" with massive amounts of money.

now its come back to bite them on the arse.

i cant see anyway croke park will survive the next year (i.e next may 13 or so) . itll come down to pay cuts or redundancies in the end.

more than likely both .

they ****ed their members up royally

Well said. I am not paying the property tax when I have already paid high other taxes and when the government squanders 20 billion a year on partnership with the unions.

Izzy Skint · 26-03-2012 10:53pm

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Dont forget to cash your Child Benefit next Tuesday. How much are you getting €140, €280, €428 more?. Nice bit of tax free money for you there courtesy of the sheep. How much do you want to see cut from that?

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/social_welfare_payments/social_welfare_payments_to_families_and_children/child_benefit.html#l62fd2

The sheep are those who have paid this tax....income tax, prsi and usc charge go towards paying for child benefit....and in fact I would be willing to take a cut in CB IF it applied to EVERYONE...whether you are working or on social welfare!!....they could also reduce amounts paid for the second child, reduce it further for third child and so on....is that ok?

tayto lover · 26-03-2012 10:53pm

dvpower wrote: »

What cuts would you make to 'balance the books overnight'?

Cut the number of T.D.'s by 25%. This country does not need 166 chancers.
Close the Seanad (F.G. promised a Referendum within 100 days on this but reneged I believe)
Cut wages at the top of the Public Sector by 15% and seek retirements where it will matter as there are too many administrators on big dosh - not in Frontline Services)
Screw the unguaranteed bondholders too.
Stop the Junkets.
Reduce T.D.'s mileage and allowances as some of these are a complete rip-off.

There now, just off the top of my head.

Savker · 26-03-2012 10:54pm

I will pay when they take all the money back from Bertie and all the other shower of B**tards

dxhound2005 · 26-03-2012 10:57pm

Izzy Skint wrote: »

The sheep are those who have paid this tax....income tax, prsi and usc charge go towards paying for child benefit....and in fact I would be willing to take a cut in CB IF it applied to EVERYONE...whether you are working or on social welfare!!....they could also reduce amounts paid for the second child, reduce it further for third child and so on....is that ok?

That's fine yes. I suggest a reduction of €1000 per child per year, still leaves you with about €700 each.

gerryo777 · 26-03-2012 10:57pm

dvpower wrote: »

You have an active imagination, I'll give you that.

You've admitted that some of the money we're borrowing went to bondholders & bankrupt banks.
You've said that we need to pay back the loans.
You do agree that that local council funding was cut by €170 million this year in order to find the money to start repaying said loans.
And the 'household charge' is meant to replace the cuts to local funding.

I don't need an 'active imagination' to see what's happening in front of my eyes.

Are you going to pay the household charge? [Part 1]

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