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FAS Work Placement Program

12467

Comments

  • #152
    RichardAnd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,796 ✭✭✭RichardAnd


    Vinyl Noodle wrote: »


    I finished college last year too but I was lucky enough to do a six month internship while I was there cause I had to take a semester out. It was the best thing to happen because I realised how little I knew. I think this WPP1 brings some attention to a big problem with our colleges in Ireland.

    On my first day of college I was told I would be earning €50,000 a year after I graduated by my head lecturer, what a joke I am now faced to work for free.

    All college courses should aim to provide internships for its students, there is obviously a demand for cheap labour and either doing it over the summer or instead of a semester would give graduates like myself a real grounding in the real world.

    Any foreign students in Ireland are usually alot older and have lots of experience before they finish college, as graduates Irish students aren't even in the same league.

    Never felt so let down in my life then by my IT, careers office a joke and lecturers never giving one real piece of advice that has helped me since I left.


    You didn't happen to go to DCU by any chance did you? I got told something similar when I started there back in the day. I knew 50k a year a BS then (and that was Celtic Tiger times). The careers office out there are pretty useless too.

    My opinion of colleges has never been a high one. My advice to anyone in college is to take everything they are told about careers expectations with a pinch of salt (or an entire shaker). No matter how well you do academically, the cold facts are that the only person going to help you get a job is yourself. It's a harsh reality and one I find college plebs don't seem to grasp.


  • #153
    danman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 583 ✭✭✭danman


    Vinyl Noodle wrote: »
    Also I am wondering if any one else felt unprepared after taking this scheme after coming straight from college, I was in UL and feel that I am definatley lacking a lot of practical skills that now seem to be completly pivitol to my job. After a 4 year course I feel cheated.:(


    I finished college last year too but I was lucky enough to do a six month internship while I was there cause I had to take a semester out. It was the best thing to happen because I realised how little I knew. I think this WPP1 brings some attention to a big problem with our colleges in Ireland.

    On my first day of college I was told I would be earning €50,000 a year after I graduated by my head lecturer, what a joke I am now faced to work for free.

    All college courses should aim to provide internships for its students, there is obviously a demand for cheap labour and either doing it over the summer or instead of a semester would give graduates like myself a real grounding in the real world.

    Any foreign students in Ireland are usually alot older and have lots of experience before they finish college, as graduates Irish students aren't even in the same league.

    Never felt so let down in my life then by my IT, careers office a joke and lecturers never giving one real piece of advice that has helped me since I left.[/QUOTE]

    When I went to university, 20 years ago, the University of Ulster had a compulsary employment year. Every course member had to do a year out of study to gain experience.

    This experience was assessed by the university and a certain was issued upon completion.

    It was a great scheme. I'm not sure if they still do it, but I'd be surprised if they're not.


  • #154
    Vinyl Noodle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4 ✭Vinyl Noodle


    I went to DkIT I didn't mention it in my post just because I didn't want to give anyone the idea that it was something only one college doesn't do. It just shows that colleges as intelligent as the people you run them think they are, they haven't identified the needs of employeers and to have experienced, grounded college graduates.

    Its a bit tough to call them college plebs though I was talking to a friend recently and I was trying to give him some hope on finding a job after he finished his Masters. He just turned and said, "I'd expect with masters to get a job pretty quickly". We all find out how useless qualifications are now without experience


  • #155
    Stark
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,034 ✭✭✭✭Stark


    We're generally extremely happy with DCU and UCC graduates where I work (IT). Both colleges have provided us with bright motivated graduates who are capable of jumping right in. Although the quality of graduates from UCC has declined in the past year or so.


  • #156
    maninasia
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,622 ✭✭✭maninasia


    Depends how deep you want to go into a subject, having an extra year of hard academic graft or exposure to a wider range of up to the minute research is very useful in science, maths, engineering, medicine and a whole host of other subjects. There is plenty of time to learn the world of work later.


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  • #157
    Vinyl Noodle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4 ✭Vinyl Noodle


    maninasia wrote: »
    Depends how deep you want to go into a subject, having an extra year of hard academic graft or exposure to a wider range of up to the minute research is very useful in science, maths, engineering, medicine and a whole host of other subjects. There is plenty of time to learn the world of work later.
    Thats a very good point and experience may suit different courses more than most, but also people who are in any profession are expected to stay up todate to any development in their industry and they usually do.

    Also many of the industries you have mentioned have minium entry tests to establish what you have learned in college while the interview is used to ask about your experience and this is where an internship could decided if you get the job or not.

    But I agree with you an internship isn't the one solution to getting a job but I think a varied CV is important to have and a college could help its students alot if it thought outside just its academic role.


  • #158
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Eliza Lynch wrote: »
    I have not read all the posts as there are ten pages.....

    I am on this scheme - I am a recent graduate.

    I was just wondering how much do employers(- ie my employer) get for taking part in the scheme? I know they get x amount but it would just be interesting. :confused:

    I am getting good experience and I will be very happy to have it on my Cv as it was barren without it However it was HELL dealing with FAS who are incredibly incredibly inefficent - my dole was cut, I couldnt get rent allowance etc etc etc. I can't ever understand why in this country government bodies can't work together? It has made me incredibly suspicious of all public servants and public bodies. I have spent 4 months on the phone to different groups/offices etc and nothing, my bf's parents are putting me up as my placement is 3 hrs away from home. Although I am glad of the experience it has been very stressful and I am definately no financially better off.

    I am optimistic but it really is hard.:o

    Also I am wondering if any one else felt unprepared after taking this scheme after coming straight from college, I was in UL and feel that I am definatley lacking a lot of practical skills that now seem to be completly pivitol to my job. After a 4 year course I feel cheated.:(

    Are you an employee on the WPP1 or an EMPLOYER ?
    http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=64218760&postcount=2
    Going by your previous posts you have your own business?


  • #159
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    http://fas.ie/en/wpps.asp?v=538896
    Debt collectors now for this scheme!


  • #160
    Stark
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,034 ✭✭✭✭Stark


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Are you an employee on the WPP1 or an EMPLOYER ?
    http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=64218760&postcount=2
    Going by your previous posts you have your own business?

    I'm sure employers love the scheme. In much the same way as I love ATM machines that spit out free money.


  • #161
    RichardAnd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,796 ✭✭✭RichardAnd


    Vinyl Noodle wrote: »
    I went to DkIT I didn't mention it in my post just because I didn't want to give anyone the idea that it was something only one college doesn't do. It just shows that colleges as intelligent as the people you run them think they are, they haven't identified the needs of employeers and to have experienced, grounded college graduates.

    Its a bit tough to call them college plebs though I was talking to a friend recently and I was trying to give him some hope on finding a job after he finished his Masters. He just turned and said, "I'd expect with masters to get a job pretty quickly". We all find out how useless qualifications are now without experience


    That guy is in for a surprise allright, and not the good kind.

    Qualifications are pretty useless when it comes down to it. My degree is just one line on my CV and, as best I can remember, no employer ever asked me much about what I did in college. Kind of make you wonder why the state pays for college for so many people when most of them will be taking off their mortarboards and heading to the nearest dole office.

    But that subject of college fees is a can of worms that I'm not going to open.


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  • #162
    the_syco
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,304 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    danman wrote: »
    When I went to university, 20 years ago, the University of Ulster had a compulsary employment year. Every course member had to do a year out of study to gain experience.

    This experience was assessed by the university and a certain was issued upon completion.

    It was a great scheme. I'm not sure if they still do it, but I'd be surprised if they're not.
    3 years ago, I knew a few people who did this in Maynooth. A year ago, I think many couldn't find a company to take them on for a year. The WPP1 should be used to get them a job in their sector, IMO.


  • #163
    AARRRRGH
    Closed Accounts Posts: 566 ✭✭✭AARRRRGH


    Stark wrote: »
    We're generally extremely happy with DCU and UCC graduates where I work (IT). Both colleges have provided us with bright motivated graduates who are capable of jumping right in. Although the quality of graduates from UCC has declined in the past year or so.

    We must work for the same company because I would say exactly the same thing.
    DCU, UL grads are excellent. But i would say it takes them a while to kick into the groove.
    UCC have gone to sh!t. Trinity grads in IT are useless.

    Of course there are exceptions, but generally thats what I see.

    Some of those Unis offer work placement in 3rd year, which makes a huge difference. The students get paid a decent wage for their work experience too. And there is no cost to the tax payer.


  • #164
    katkin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 185 ✭✭katkin


    Tigger wrote: »
    no the employer gets a staff member
    the staff member gets paid thier welfare and trained


    its a very good deal as if someone comes to me looking for a job after working for six months effectivally for free then i'll know they are serious

    anyone coming to me after 6 months on he dole has zerp chance thats just how it is

    i don't care if you think you tried to get work the guy/gal who got work is the better motivated

    I would imagine that logic is why people take up these positions. I've been on dole for a while now and recently started a one-day a week volunteer position to keep up and build skills, experience, network and for CV. I have plenty of company where I am so my employer gets loads of work done for nothing. I have always had my doubts about volunteering but they are confirmed now. It's inherently selfish - I'm doing it to benefit me but ultimately I'm shooting myself in the foot. And that goes for anyone taking up WPPs or any other work for nothing. Where I am there are around 50 volunteers compared to 5 well paid staff (it's not WPP). They say they have no money (I've heard that nearly five times a day since I started). If they had no volunteers working for nothing they'd have to take pay cuts and employ another member of staff or do the work themselves. Ultimately however, volunteers and WPPs keep certain people on a nice wage, others on nothing and leads to zero job creation. Anti-competitive and anti-jobs. The whole thing sickens me, and I will probably give it up. If all my dreams came true everyone else in the country working for nothing would do the same. But we're all too selfish and many are too blind to see the counter productive nature of this activity.


  • #165
    Mr Benevolent
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,456 ✭✭✭✭Mr Benevolent


    I've just been accepted for a WPP2 HR position. I haven't worked for 10 months and desperately need to get out of the career rut I was in (low paid callcentre work). Fortunately I live at home and €40 - €60 per week for fares, lunch etc isn't excessive for me. To be blunt, this position is a fantastic opportunity for me to get skills and experience in an area I've always wanted to get into. A couple of certificates in training and HR after this and I'll be well on my way to a good job. I admit there's a lot of hard work ahead for me, but it will hopefully be worth it.


  • #166
    AARRRRGH
    Closed Accounts Posts: 566 ✭✭✭AARRRRGH


    Confab wrote: »
    I've just been accepted for a WPP2 HR position. I haven't worked for 10 months and desperately need to get out of the career rut I was in (low paid callcentre work). Fortunately I live at home and €40 - €60 per week for fares, lunch etc isn't excessive for me. To be blunt, this position is a fantastic opportunity for me to get skills and experience in an area I've always wanted to get into. A couple of certificates in training and HR after this and I'll be well on my way to a good job. I admit there's a lot of hard work ahead for me, but it will hopefully be worth it.

    Now thats fukin ironic.
    You get paid nothing to make sure all the other staff are underpaid :D


  • #167
    Lenny
    Moderators, Music Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 9,389 Mod ✭✭✭✭Lenny


    Just had a quick scan through this topic..
    I had applied to a job a few weeks ago(had 2 interviews, its not your standard office job, decent paid)
    there was 2 positions going.. I had just recieved a phone call.. informing me that I was unsuccessful for both psoitions, BUT they could offer me a WPP position, this baffles me a bit, they said I was unsuccessful because there was other people who had better experience in the field than myself. The distance to the job would be 80Kms everyday,
    so I am going to be using a bit more petrol(curretly use 30-40PW) is there any sort of allounce I could get. ie that fas does?
    By tkaing up this job will it save me using up my JB stamps?
    AM I allowed to request that I work 25 hours in the sompany and not a full week?


  • #168
    28064212
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,807 ✭✭✭✭28064212


    Lenny wrote: »
    so I am going to be using a bit more petrol(curretly use 30-40PW) is there any sort of allounce I could get. ie that fas does?
    Not that I'm aware of. It may be worth asking Fás, but I doubt it
    Lenny wrote: »
    By tkaing up this job will it save me using up my JB stamps?
    No, you're still on JB while on the WPP, it doesn't affect it
    Lenny wrote: »
    AM I allowed to request that I work 25 hours in the sompany and not a full week?
    You can request it, but if the company says no, you can't take it any further. You either accept their terms or you don't get the position

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  • #169
    Lenny
    Moderators, Music Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 9,389 Mod ✭✭✭✭Lenny


    Thanks for that 28064212
    I rang fas there alright myself.
    Not entitled to anything extra, the girl was nice & plesent on the phone
    she did warn me though, that if I started this experance for say.. 9 months, and if I only have 3 months left on my stamps. my payment will just stop after 3 mponths and then its up the social to deciede what to pay me(means tested etc.)
    last time I was means tested 8 years ago(i was 18/19) I was only getting 80e per week, but was short lived got a job 2 weeks later)
    Also, seeing as I'm not on the dole for 6 months yet, I am not able to get my payments into my bank account. So if I take this placement I assume I will get paid into the bank?


  • #170
    Lenny
    Moderators, Music Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 9,389 Mod ✭✭✭✭Lenny


    Thanks for that 28064212
    I rang fas there alright myself.
    Not entitled to anything extra, the girl was nice & plesent on the phone
    she did warn me though, that if I started this experance for say.. 9 months, and if I only have 3 months left on my stamps. my payment will just stop after 3 mponths and then its up the social to deciede what to pay me(means tested etc.)
    last time I was means tested 8 years ago(i was 18/19) I was only getting 80e per week, but was short lived got a job 2 weeks later)
    Also, seeing as I'm not on the dole for 6 months yet, I am not able to get my payments into my bank account. So if I take this placement I assume I will get paid into the bank?
    the only reason I am doing this is because I am getting "experience" which I was told I did not get the job because I lacked it.. my experience is the motor trade(spare parts), and this job is a total different line


  • #171
    28064212
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,807 ✭✭✭✭28064212


    Lenny wrote: »
    last time I was means tested 8 years ago(i was 18/19) I was only getting 80e per week, but was short lived got a job 2 weeks later)
    Were you living with your parents? If so, you were probably tested against their incomes as well, that won't be the case this time
    Lenny wrote: »
    Also, seeing as I'm not on the dole for 6 months yet, I am not able to get my payments into my bank account. So if I take this placement I assume I will get paid into the bank?
    You will be able to get it paid into your bank account, but it doesn't happen automatically, you have to inform the welfare office that you're on the WPP and ask for it to be done

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  • #172
    danman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 583 ✭✭✭danman


    Fair play to you Lenny.
    I really hope it goes well for you.


  • #173
    Lenny
    Moderators, Music Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 9,389 Mod ✭✭✭✭Lenny


    28064212 wrote: »
    Were you living with your parents? If so, you were probably tested against their incomes as well, that won't be the case this timeYou will be able to get it paid into your bank account, but it doesn't happen automatically, you have to inform the welfare office that you're on the WPP and ask for it to be done

    Yep, and I still am, under pressure to move out with the gf at the mo. and by starting this wpp I haven't a hope in hell of being able to pay for a place.. to think eh, this time last year I was looking at buying a place and had the deposit ready!
    not gonna get approved for years now! lol


  • #174
    Lenny
    Moderators, Music Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 9,389 Mod ✭✭✭✭Lenny


    Just another quick qestion, if I start this scheme.. am I able to start work part time elsewhere So I could do the WPP & earn a little more elsewhere?


  • #175
    28064212
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,807 ✭✭✭✭28064212


    Lenny wrote: »
    Just another quick qestion, if I start this scheme.. am I able to start work part time, or do self employed commision based work? So I could do the WPP & earn a little more elsewhere?
    I believe so, yes, but you would have to report it to the welfare office, same as if you weren't on the scheme

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  • #176
    Lenny
    Moderators, Music Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 9,389 Mod ✭✭✭✭Lenny


    OK, went up to the fas today to register but they only see people for it between 9-1
    nice working hours they have up there for people looking to do course etc.!
    Due for an interview tomorrow might ask the person about the working an that, but from speakin to the girl on the phone earliler. fas have pritty much nothing to do with this at all but just advertise it, as all the payments come from the social


  • #177
    ryanster
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1 ✭ryanster


    Hi Blind Justice,

    I checked with FAS on this and there are NOT more WPP placements than jobs in the FAS site.

    It just appears that way cos jobs go up and down quickly cos they are filled faster.

    The WPP ones stay up longer and some never fill (the less attractive ones we have all been talking about) so it just looks like there are more. Their head office checked for me and WPP ones account for only 6% of all advertised jobs on the site since the programme began last year.

    So there you go, perception is skewed, there are way more jobs than WPP placements.

    :)


    Deleted User wrote: »
    wanting pay is now "an attitude" sorry your majesty

    http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=64537072&postcount=121
    http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=64519009&postcount=109
    http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=64524193&postcount=112
    http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=64399835&postcount=67
    http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=64123656&postcount=26
    These arent 4th year or college placements, and now nearly one third of all jobs on fas.ie are WPP1/2

    Lets make the next generation pay for everything


  • #178
    maninasia
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,622 ✭✭✭maninasia


    Well did you check with somebody independent also i.e. not FAS!


  • #179
    Demonon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 152 ✭✭Demonon


    ryanster wrote: »
    Hi Blind Justice,

    I checked with FAS on this and there are NOT more WPP placements than jobs in the FAS site.

    It just appears that way cos jobs go up and down quickly cos they are filled faster.

    The WPP ones stay up longer and some never fill (the less attractive ones we have all been talking about) so it just looks like there are more. Their head office checked for me and WPP ones account for only 6% of all advertised jobs on the site since the programme began last year.

    So there you go, perception is skewed, there are way more jobs than WPP placements.

    :)

    I find this very very difficult to believe without some google-cached statistics or something. At the moment there are 1408 wpp jobs and 2486 non-wpp jobs. That's 36% of all jobs. Anyway needless to say employers are most definitely abusing this scheme. Some very good points made earlier in the thread that there's no need for me to repeat.


  • #180
    28064212
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,807 ✭✭✭✭28064212


    Demonon wrote: »
    I find this very very difficult to believe without some google-cached statistics or something. At the moment there are 1408 wpp jobs and 2486 non-wpp jobs. That's 36% of all jobs. Anyway needless to say employers are most definitely abusing this scheme. Some very good points made earlier in the thread that there's no need for me to repeat.
    Except there is no proof of that at all, not even anecdotal examples on this thread. The examples given are, at best, showing employers trying to abuse the scheme. Instead, as borne out by the Fás figures, these positions end up on the site for months on end

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  • #181
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Demonon wrote: »
    I find this very very difficult to believe without some google-cached statistics or something. At the moment there are 1408 wpp jobs and 2486 non-wpp jobs. That's 36% of all jobs. Anyway needless to say employers are most definitely abusing this scheme. Some very good points made earlier in the thread that there's no need for me to repeat.

    your including part time jobs.

    Its actually 47% of full time jobs as of today.

    http://jobbank.fas.ie/servlet/Watis?SESS=15819_3&SERVICE=CRITERIUMTREE&TEMPLATE=WWW_JS_VAC_CRITERIUM_VALUE.HTM&CRITERIUM=WPP&TYPE=LTREE&BACK=TEMPLATE%3DWWW_JS_VAC.HTM


  • #182
    duffflash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 52 ✭✭duffflash


    I had to stop reading this tread as it was getting to distressing for me. Unfortunately there seems to be little or no regulation of this scheme. It will be exploited by employers regardless of whether they can afford to pay to employ someone or not, sure why would they when they can get a long list of highly qualified graduates for nothing. I’m not here to say that this is a bad scheme but that it is being run very badly. I think every graduate in the country would jump at the chance of going on this scheme if it offered any real chance of employment, but as long as employers are allowed to take people in and work for a year and let them go again and then take more people in to replace them only to do the same they will never create real paid positions again. Perhaps if after the first year the employer offered to pay a percentage of the wage in year two and again increased the percentage again in year tree it may work. But as it is it will be taken advantage of my companies that ( lets face it) are profit driven.
    I know there will be a que of people here waiting to tell me that people on the dole are freeloading and so on...... but the only advantage of this scheme at the minute is that our graduates have some work experience so they can better find work abroad and our economy will never recover if we again allow our best to leave the country. Please understand we are not looking for handouts here only a chance to build a life in our own country.


  • #183
    ThomasCreeby
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17 ✭ThomasCreeby


    duffflash wrote: »
    I had to stop reading this tread as it was getting to distressing for me. Unfortunately there seems to be little or no regulation of this scheme. It will be exploited by employers regardless of whether they can afford to pay to employ someone or not, sure why would they when they can get a long list of highly qualified graduates for nothing. I’m not here to say that this is a bad scheme but that it is being run very badly. I think every graduate in the country would jump at the chance of going on this scheme if it offered any real chance of employment, but as long as employers are allowed to take people in and work for a year and let them go again and then take more people in to replace them only to do the same they will never create real paid positions again. Perhaps if after the first year the employer offered to pay a percentage of the wage in year two and again increased the percentage again in year tree it may work. But as it is it will be taken advantage of my companies that ( lets face it) are profit driven.
    I know there will be a que of people here waiting to tell me that people on the dole are freeloading and so on...... but the only advantage of this scheme at the minute is that our graduates have some work experience so they can better find work abroad and our economy will never recover if we again allow our best to leave the country. Please understand we are not looking for handouts here only a chance to build a life in our own country.

    Probably the most welcome response Ive received since I started this thread a few months back. I'm currently working part-time as a bartender here, I've been to college and done decent internships abroad and I'm working 1 day a week as a bar tender and receiving my dole to cover the rest of the week. I'd work 40 hours a week as a bartender if I could get the hours at this point just so I could save up enough money to get the fu*k out of here.
    I'm sick of older people whining on at me like they know something just because they lived through their own recession, there's an entire population of graduates and young people saying "what the actual f*&k?" when they go online to try and find jobs here. anyway, I almost have enough saved to move to London now, even if it goes tits up at least I can say I got out of here for a little while. Living abroad before taught me to appreciate the things I have here but unfortunately another year of being broke here like most of the other young people I know and I think I would go postal.
    The WPP scheme is just another example of how innately useless and pointless the entire FAS organisation is, personally I would disband it and make a separate organisation for getting people trained and a separate organisation for finding people work. The only thing the WPP scheme at FAS has done for me so far is send me a single letter about once every 6 weeks containing details of some random WPP scheme (usually in a completely different part of the country/city) that I might be interested in.
    What a waste of money sending this crapola when anyone can just go online and find the exact same details in a matter of seconds.
    In summary, disband FAS.


  • #184
    RichardAnd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,796 ✭✭✭RichardAnd


    duffflash wrote: »
    I had to stop reading this tread as it was getting to distressing for me. Unfortunately there seems to be little or no regulation of this scheme. It will be exploited by employers regardless of whether they can afford to pay to employ someone or not, sure why would they when they can get a long list of highly qualified graduates for nothing. I’m not here to say that this is a bad scheme but that it is being run very badly. I think every graduate in the country would jump at the chance of going on this scheme if it offered any real chance of employment, but as long as employers are allowed to take people in and work for a year and let them go again and then take more people in to replace them only to do the same they will never create real paid positions again. Perhaps if after the first year the employer offered to pay a percentage of the wage in year two and again increased the percentage again in year tree it may work. But as it is it will be taken advantage of my companies that ( lets face it) are profit driven.
    I know there will be a que of people here waiting to tell me that people on the dole are freeloading and so on...... but the only advantage of this scheme at the minute is that our graduates have some work experience so they can better find work abroad and our economy will never recover if we again allow our best to leave the country. Please understand we are not looking for handouts here only a chance to build a life in our own country.


    A string of people will be here to tell you that complaining about the WPP is a "celtic club" attitude or that you're being unrealistic in your expectations. I understand why you would feel distressed because knowing that there is a way to hire free staff would make me worry to if I needed a job.

    The WPP is a warped version of what can be a good thing. Un-paid internships are nothing new but in England, offering un-paid work is very tightly regulated because they know something like this will be abused. I'm not one for conspiracy theories at all but I can't accept that anyone would be stupid enough to set up a scheme like this and not close it down when there is clear and blatant abuse going on. It makes you wonder if there's more to the WPP than it being the product of Coughlan's (or however you spell that) limited mind.

    However, you shouldn't let this get to you too much. Yes, the WPP has kept a few people on the dole but it isn't derailing chances of finding work either. If you look at alot of the WPP jobs, you'll find they have been there for months; people simply are not applying to 90% of them because they know the experience is worthless or they simply don't want to work for no extra gain.

    The idea of the WPP is actually a good one because graduates NEED real experience. Most know next to nothing about what they have a degree in and this could be a way to help them get it. However, this being Ireland, the system to offer that experience is, naturally, faulty. Don't let it get to you, plenty of employers actually have the honesty to pay someone for a days work, the ones that won't probably aren't worth working for.


  • #185
    donkey balls
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,496 ✭✭✭donkey balls


    [QUOTE=RichardAnd;66408906]A string of people will be here to tell you that complaining about the WPP is a "celtic club" attitude or that you're being unrealistic in your expectations. I understand why you would feel distressed because knowing that there is a way to hire free staff would make me worry to if I needed a job.

    The WPP is a warped version of what can be a good thing. Un-paid internships are nothing new but in England, offering un-paid work is very tightly regulated because they know something like this will be abused. I'm not one for conspiracy theories at all but I can't accept that anyone would be stupid enough to set up a scheme like this and not close it down when there is clear and blatant abuse going on. It makes you wonder if there's more to the WPP than it being the product of Coughlan's (or however you spell that) limited mind.

    However, you shouldn't let this get to you too much. Yes, the WPP has kept a few people on the dole but it isn't derailing chances of finding work either. If you look at alot of the WPP jobs, you'll find they have been there for months; people simply are not applying to 90% of them because they know the experience is worthless or they simply don't want to work for no extra gain.

    The idea of the WPP is actually a good one because graduates NEED real experience. Most know next to nothing about what they have a degree in and this could be a way to help them get it. However, this being Ireland, the system to offer that experience is, naturally, faulty. Don't let it get to you, plenty of employers actually have the honesty to pay someone for a days work, the ones that won't probably aren't worth working for.[/QUOTE]

    i grew up during the 80s and remember the recession also the early part of the 90s as well,and i agree with the last two posters:eek:.
    when this WPP scheme came out i noticed jobs in my industry that advertised the fact that the person needed to be of a certain age and have experience, the idea of the WPP was to give people experience in their particular field.
    i reported two schemes to FAS and the two adverts was taking down only to re appear a month later:mad: when i got in contact with FAS again i was told that they would not take down the adverts and sure if no one applied for the job what harm was it doing.


  • #186
    janice2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1 ✭janice2


    hi all i was just reading this thread and wondering if anyone knows if you can qualify for the fas work placement programme and get payment from social welfare without actually being on it at present? i have received a job offer for mid august basically on the condition of being on this programme. i know that you can get on the programme without being on social welfare but this basically means you would be working for free. I would need to get social welfare to cover my travel expences, survive etc but my worry is that i wouldnt be able to get it on this programme without being on the register for three months- ie not long enough to start in august ? does anybody know anything about this system? i dont want to miss out on this job with a potential longer contract just because of a technicality like this! have been unemployed since feb this year but didnt apply for the dole because living at home and didnt think i would be entitled to it? any help is much appreciated, thanks!


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  • #187
    RichardAnd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,796 ✭✭✭RichardAnd


    janice2 wrote: »
    hi all i was just reading this thread and wondering if anyone knows if you can qualify for the fas work placement programme and get payment from social welfare without actually being on it at present? i have received a job offer for mid august basically on the condition of being on this programme. i know that you can get on the programme without being on social welfare but this basically means you would be working for free. I would need to get social welfare to cover my travel expences, survive etc but my worry is that i wouldnt be able to get it on this programme without being on the register for three months- ie not long enough to start in august ? does anybody know anything about this system? i dont want to miss out on this job with a potential longer contract just because of a technicality like this! have been unemployed since feb this year but didnt apply for the dole because living at home and didnt think i would be entitled to it? any help is much appreciated, thanks!


    You actually probably would but fair play to you for going out to work.

    Unfortunately, I think you might be in trouble here because if I remember correctly, you need to be registered with FAS and have been out of work for a while before you can do the WPP. I could be wrong on this but I'm almost certain that you can't simply find a job and then apply for SW. Kind of crazy but that's FAS.

    Your best bet is to give FAS a call and see what you can get out of them. Sorry I can't be of more help.


  • #188
    28064212
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,807 ✭✭✭✭28064212


    janice2 wrote: »
    hi all i was just reading this thread and wondering if anyone knows if you can qualify for the fas work placement programme and get payment from social welfare without actually being on it at present? i have received a job offer for mid august basically on the condition of being on this programme. i know that you can get on the programme without being on social welfare but this basically means you would be working for free. I would need to get social welfare to cover my travel expences, survive etc but my worry is that i wouldnt be able to get it on this programme without being on the register for three months- ie not long enough to start in august ? does anybody know anything about this system? i dont want to miss out on this job with a potential longer contract just because of a technicality like this! have been unemployed since feb this year but didnt apply for the dole because living at home and didnt think i would be entitled to it? any help is much appreciated, thanks!
    http://www.fas.ie/en/job+seeker/wpp/default.htm

    Looks like you do have to be on the dole for 3 months, but talk to Fás, they may be able to help you. Maybe you would be allowed to start the placement, then apply for welfare straight after you start. Best option is to talk to Fás and find out

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  • #189
    milkybar kid wk
    Registered Users Posts: 44 ✭milkybar kid wk


    does the employer have to pay PRSI for the employee


  • #190
    donkey balls
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,496 ✭✭✭donkey balls


    milkybar kid wk wrote: »
    does the employer have to pay PRSI for the employee

    nope the employer gets someone to work for them for nothing as the person is getting paid from the dept of social welfare.


  • #191
    carwash106
    Registered Users Posts: 58 ✭✭carwash106


    Interesting post.

    Lots of people made good points, really made me think.

    heres my experience..
    im around a month into my graduate wpp1, im a recently graduated web developer working with a company now. So far im not really learning that much and seriously considering looking for a different placement. however i probably wont because
    1. the half of the day im sitting around im doing personal learning, im going online and practicing what i do. im lucky that way that my chosen profession there is a certain amount of self taught stuff you can do
    2. it still count as experience on paper and on your cv and ill stick the 9 month because i can learn on companies time.
    3. i was sitting around at home anyway doing nothing, living cheaply doesnt bother me as i have applied for the full dole(was getting 95) and applying for rent allowance( dont even know will i get that)
    Im not doing the whole coming in early and staying late thing because at the end of the day im working here for free, the reason i have so much time is because there isnt much work for me at all.

    At the end of the day a lot of companies abuse it but if you can find a way to take advantage of it( any advantage - building your cv etc) . It doesnt feel very nice to work without pay but i have no choice at the moment.


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  • #192
    jock101
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 685 ✭✭✭jock101


    Being forced to Work for nothing, is that not called Slavery:eek:.


  • #193
    RichardAnd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,796 ✭✭✭RichardAnd


    jock101 wrote: »
    Being forced to Work for nothing, is that not called Slavery:eek:.


    No one is being forced onto the WPP.

    Carwash106, your attitude is pretty much the same view I have come to have of the WPP. It's a bad idea really and it is being abused but I do admire you for making the best of it.

    In Ireland, you will never beat the system and no matter how absurd it is, your best bet is to make it work for you.


  • #194
    carwash106
    Registered Users Posts: 58 ✭✭carwash106


    RichardAnd wrote: »
    No one is being forced onto the WPP.

    Haha good point, no one is being forced onto it.

    Personally i was having an "easy" time of it at home when i couldnt find work but where would that leave me and the counrty for that matter, another person on the dole not bothering looking for work.

    For personal development reasons i would say to any graduate who cant find work and are on the dole, find a wpp1 with a company in your field and stick with it for your own sake.
    Try to ignore the feelings of lousiness that comes with the program because its not much more lousy than sitting at home when you want to be working.


  • #195
    RichardAnd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,796 ✭✭✭RichardAnd


    carwash106 wrote: »
    Haha good point, no one is being forced onto it.

    Personally i was having an "easy" time of it at home when i couldnt find work but where would that leave me and the counrty for that matter, another person on the dole not bothering looking for work.

    For personal development reasons i would say to any graduate who cant find work and are on the dole, find a wpp1 with a company in your field and stick with it for your own sake.
    Try to ignore the feelings of lousiness that comes with the program because its not much more lousy than sitting at home when you want to be working.


    With an attitude like that, you'll find a proper job, just might take some time.

    I actually graduated from computer science too and like you, my area is web development. Sadly though, when I left college I found out how little a degree is worth and couldn't find a job. Rather than draw the dole, I joined a wedding band and made some good money until a job opportunity came up. Playing music might not be a full time job but it still gets you out, gets you thinking and earns you some cash.

    Though I think the WPP needs serious revision I do second the bolded advice. Staying at home on the dole is the worst possible thing a graduate can do if they hope to find decent employment and anything else, even a FAS course, is preferable.


  • #196
    carwash106
    Registered Users Posts: 58 ✭✭carwash106


    RichardAnd wrote: »
    Sadly though, when I left college I found out how little a degree is worth and couldn't find a job.

    Thanks RichardAnd.

    It amazes me how little a degree is worth, not only to employers but to a graduate when they realise they really know nothing!!


  • #197
    alanajane
    Registered Users Posts: 252 ✭✭alanajane


    my husband was laid off some months ago but two weeks after he was let go his job was advertised on Fas as a WPP, so there was work there for him but the company couldnt or wouldnt pay him. not fair :(


  • #198
    The_Honeybadger
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,207 ✭✭✭The_Honeybadger


    alanajane wrote: »
    my husband was laid off some months ago but two weeks after he was let go his job was advertised on Fas as a WPP, so there was work there for him but the company couldnt or wouldnt pay him. not fair :(
    This is against the rules of the program, they clearly state that nobody can have been made redundant from any of the positions advertised in the previous year so he should report that. I'm not sure how good they are at following up this sort of thing so there is every possibility that FAS don't know that somebody had been laid off and that this is the reason there is a vacancy for a WPP candidate, that employer should't be allowed get away with it.


  • #199
    danbohan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,914 ✭✭✭danbohan


    mickeyk wrote: »
    This is against the rules of the program, they clearly state that nobody can have been made redundant from any of the positions advertised in the previous year so he should report that. I'm not sure how good they are at following up this sort of thing so there is every possibility that FAS don't know that somebody had been laid off and that this is the reason there is a vacancy for a WPP candidate, that employer should't be allowed get away with it.


    of course we should make the employer continuie to pay inflated and unrealistic wages until his company is bankrupt and then everybody be out of a job !


  • #200
    donkey balls
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,496 ✭✭✭donkey balls


    danbohan wrote: »
    of course we should make the employer continuie to pay inflated and unrealistic wages until his company is bankrupt and then everybody be out of a job !


    are you for real?:eek: with the above statement? someone losses their job due to the employer looking for free labour, how to you know that the chap was on inflated wages to begin with.
    do you want everyone to work for nothing, i reckon the chap that got let go could bring his employer to court over constructive dismisal, as for FAS you could tell them but i reckon you wont get very far with them.
    i reported about five WPP schemes that specifically advertised for experienced people only the reply i got was dont bother applying for the position.


  • #201
    RichardAnd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,796 ✭✭✭RichardAnd


    carwash106 wrote: »
    Thanks RichardAnd.

    It amazes me how little a degree is worth, not only to employers but to a graduate when they realise they really know nothing!!


    I know. I asked my boss why he hired me a few months after I started working for him and he said it was because of the experience I had (over 4 years all together in different areas), not my degree. The way I see it, one year of experience is worth more than a degree.


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