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Irish Palestine Solidarity Campaign

12467…10

Comments

  • #152
    Johro
    Registered Users Posts: 4,705 ✭✭✭Johro


    golden lane wrote: »
    there is a place called palistine......it is not a state at the moment, because the western world helped the israeli's to eliminate that state......

    one day state will exist and nobody will care whether there ever was a state called israle......the the blame will lie with the israeli's.........

    go and pray that allah, will be mercifull.............you will need it......because nobody else in the world will think you deserve it......
    Yeah... Part of the problem.


  • #153
    Johro
    Registered Users Posts: 4,705 ✭✭✭Johro


    Nodin wrote: »
    The Shatner is being a bit shakepearean - 'full of sound and fury, yet signifying nothing'. He isn't proposing any legislation, so he can have his wee spasm. Best to ignore him.
    I think the proper term is 'hissy fit'. I like 'wee spasm' though.


  • #154
    jimmy blevins
    Closed Accounts Posts: 475 ✭✭jimmy blevins


    The tsarist police, in alliance with the landowners and the capitalists, organised pogroms against the Jews. The landowners and capitalists tried to divert the hatred of the workers and peasants who were tortured by want against the Jews. ... It is not the Jews who are the enemies of the working people. The enemies of the workers are the capitalists of all countries. Among the Jews there are working people, and they form the majority. They are our brothers, who, like us, are oppressed by capital; they are our comrades in the struggle for socialism. ... The capitalists strive to sow and foment hatred between workers of different faiths, different nations and different races. ... Rich Jews, like rich Russians, and the rich in all countries, are in alliance to oppress, crush, rob, and disunite the workers. ... Shame on those who foment hatred towards the Jews, who foment hatred towards other nations.

    Vladimir Lenin


  • #155
    paddyandy
    Site Banned Posts: 2,037 ✭✭✭paddyandy


    There was never any love between the crescent and the cross so what's going on here ?


  • #156
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    paddyandy wrote: »
    There was never any love between the crescent and the cross so what's going on here ?


    ......some of us went all 21st century and decided that human suffering was human suffering regardless of the sects involved.


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  • #157
    Johro
    Registered Users Posts: 4,705 ✭✭✭Johro


    Tbh, the IPSC went a bit overboard here, it would be fair enough to contact the band and ask them not to perform because of the 'cultural boycott' (much good it'll do...) but after that the decision to go ahead or not is up to the band and nobody should feel the need to criticise them either way. It all sounds a little hysterical and does nothing to help the situation.


  • #158
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    ...maybe they listened to the Eurovision entry that Waters penned...that could have made them a bit irrational.


  • #159
    jimmy blevins
    Closed Accounts Posts: 475 ✭✭jimmy blevins


    Some sects have perpetrted most of the violence against members of their own sect and then scapegoat weaker smaller sects and then get into a hissy fit when they fight back.


  • #160
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    jimmy blevins wrote: »
    Some sects have perpetrted most of the violence mostly against members of their own sect and then scapegoat weaker smaller sects and then get into a hissy fit when they fight back.

    ....hi, my names Nodin. I'm a bit thick, so if you could spell that out more clearly for me, I'd appreciate it.


  • #161
    Johro
    Registered Users Posts: 4,705 ✭✭✭Johro


    Nodin wrote: »
    ...maybe they listened to the Eurovision entry that Waters penned...that could have made them a bit irrational.
    Yeah... that'll send anyone over the edge..


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  • #162
    czx
    Registered Users Posts: 544 ✭✭✭czx


    Nodin wrote: »
    ....hi, my names Nodin. I'm a bit thick, so if you could spell that out more clearly for me, I'd appreciate it.

    You lack perspective


  • #163
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    czx wrote:
    .You lack perspective .

    Maybe I do. We'll see when yer man gets back to us with version 2.0.


  • #164
    jimmy blevins
    Closed Accounts Posts: 475 ✭✭jimmy blevins


    Why is it people trying to act all liberal and trendy lefty try to put down one of the few liberal democratic countries founded on democratic socialist principles so much.


  • #165
    golden lane
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,364 ✭✭✭golden lane


    jimmy blevins wrote: »
    Why is it people trying to act all liberal and trendy lefty try to put down one of the few liberal democratic countries founded on democratic socialist principles so much.


    democratic confiscation......from a few thousand year old rumour...


  • #166
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    jimmy blevins wrote: »
    Why is it people trying to act all liberal and trendy lefty try to put down one of the few liberal democratic countries founded on democratic socialist principles so much.


    You see, in this Universe, "liberal democratic countries" who wish to be appreciated by the "trendy lefty" people have to avoid setting up colonies in areas outside their legally recognised borders and running those same areas like apartheid statelets. Yes, we are a fussy bunch, but there ye go.

    Any chance of you getting back to me on that 1st post of yours?


  • #167
    Johro
    Registered Users Posts: 4,705 ✭✭✭Johro


    jimmy blevins wrote: »
    Why is it people trying to act all liberal and trendy lefty try to put down one of the few liberal democratic countries founded on democratic socialist principles so much.
    Why is it that people insist on discrediting a valid argument as 'all liberal and trendy lefty'? It's more than a little short sighted.


  • #168
    jimmy blevins
    Closed Accounts Posts: 475 ✭✭jimmy blevins


    What that teritory once controlled by Jordan until they decided to start a war of aggresion along with nearly every other bordering country.


  • #169
    Johro
    Registered Users Posts: 4,705 ✭✭✭Johro


    What what..?


  • #170
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    jimmy blevins wrote: »
    What that territory once controlled by Jordan until they decided to start a war of aggression along with nearly every other bordering country.

    Jordan started a war with all its neighbours? No, you'd be wrong. Egypt, Jordan and Syria did attack Israel in 1948, if thats what you mean.

    Was there some point you were trying to make there...? Are you going to explain that 1st post of yours on this thread?

    The main issue today is regarding later developments. There are a number of territories that were seized in 1967 which are still under Israeli control. Since WWII, the acquisition of territory by main force is disallowed/illegal. Furthermore a state moving or facilitating the movement of it's citizens into an area outside its borders in the manner Israel has is also disallowed/illegal. Likewise the treatment of the Palestinian population by the occupying forces and settlers, allocation of resources and so on.


  • #171
    The Israeli
    Registered Users Posts: 413 ✭✭The Israeli


    Nodin wrote: »
    You see, in this Universe, "liberal democratic countries" who wish to be appreciated by the "trendy lefty" people have to avoid setting up colonies in areas outside their legally recognised borders and running those same areas like apartheid statelets. Yes, we are a fussy bunch, but there ye go.

    Very fair as usual, Nodin. I like the way you put the weight of all the problems on one side of the ramp. "Just like in the real world".

    I'm sure the this cultural boycott is helping a lot to both sides. Especially to the Palestinian one. Now the Israelis and the Palestinians enjoy of some of the good Irish culture.. and the "message" that the IPSC is sending to the world is a message that is contributing to the Palestinians, and isn't showing Ireland's irrelevancy as a stabilizing factor in the Middle East. Ahhha


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  • #172
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    The Israeli wrote: »
    Very fair as usual, Nodin. I like the way you put the weight of all the problems on one side of the ramp. "Just like in the real world".

    The day Syria or Egypt - or even some future Palestinian state - are putting settlers into colonies outside and in Tel Aviv, call me. Till then its fairly clear who the F-16 flying nuclear powered aggressors are, and it sure as fuck isn't some shower of olive farmers in the West Bank.


  • #173
    The Israeli
    Registered Users Posts: 413 ✭✭The Israeli


    Nodin wrote: »
    The day Syria or Egypt - or even some future Palestinian state - are putting settlers into colonies outside and in Tel Aviv, call me. Till then its fairly clear who the F-16 flying nuclear powered aggressors are, and it sure as fuck isn't some shower of olive farmers in the West Bank.

    The day there will be no Palestinian terror and no threats for extermination, epically during peace talks, call me.


  • #174
    Zebra3
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,946 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    jimmy blevins wrote: »
    Why is it people trying to act all liberal and trendy lefty try to put down one of the few liberal democratic countries founded on democratic socialist principles so much.

    Are you talking about Israel?

    The state that refuses to allow people who lived there, before they were ethnicly cleansed by Israeli terrorists, to return home to reclaim their propety.

    Yet Israel allows people of a certain religion from anywhere in the world to live in there.

    Not exactly democratic, is it? How liberal is their siege of Gaza? :rolleyes:


  • #175
    tayto lover
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 52,229 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    The Israeli wrote: »
    The day there will be no Palestinian terror and no threats for extermination, epically during peace talks, call me.

    I wonder why they are behaving like that !!!


  • #176
    golden lane
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,364 ✭✭✭golden lane


    The Israeli wrote: »
    The day there will be no Palestinian terror and no threats for extermination, epically during peace talks, call me.

    hello, hello, can i have my land back please...........somebody just took it.....

    no.....they were not very nice......they mumbled something about the promised land.......hello, hello, hello, is there anybody there.....


  • #177
    czx
    Registered Users Posts: 544 ✭✭✭czx


    Nodin wrote: »
    The day Syria or Egypt - or even some future Palestinian state - are putting settlers into colonies outside and in Tel Aviv, call me. Till then its fairly clear who the F-16 flying nuclear powered aggressors are, and it sure as fuck isn't some shower of olive farmers in the West Bank.


    Or killing their own people? Not 21st century enough for you?


  • #178
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    The Israeli wrote: »
    The day there will be no Palestinian terror and no threats for extermination, epically during peace talks, call me.

    ...so you support the settlements then. Good man, honesty is always the best policy. That "I don't support them but..." act was wearing thin, lets face it.

    "terror"? It's armed resistance to colonisation. Seeing as the peaceful route of the UN and sanctions have been blocked, its unfortunately the only avenue open to them. Bit much to be complaining about the end result of your states Foreign policy, tbh.


  • #179
    czx
    Registered Users Posts: 544 ✭✭✭czx


    tayto lover wrote: »
    I wonder why they are behaving like that !!!

    I know! They should really think of the human suffering they're causing


  • #180
    The Israeli
    Registered Users Posts: 413 ✭✭The Israeli


    tayto lover wrote: »
    I wonder why they are behaving like that !!!

    When you say that, you probably also mean to the pre 1948 pogroms, and the 48 independence war.
    Also, you probably mean to the preaches at mosques that preach for Jews killing, and establishing Palestine from the Jordan river to the sea.


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  • #181
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    czx wrote: »
    Or killing their own people? Not 21st century enough for you?

    ...no idea what you mean there.


  • #182
    czx
    Registered Users Posts: 544 ✭✭✭czx


    Nodin wrote: »
    ...so you support the settlements then. Good man, honesty is always the best policy. That "I don't support them but..." act was wearing thin, lets face it.

    "terror"? It's armed resistance to colonisation. Seeing as the peaceful route of the UN and sanctions have been blocked, its unfortunately the only avenue open to them. Bit much to be complaining about the end result of your states Foreign policy, tbh.

    Condoning suicide attacks is not very 21st century. Disgusting hypocrisy from someone who claims to care about human suffering, regardless of sect.


  • #183
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    O look, it's the dash to avoid talking about whats happening today.

    They should really make this an olympic event.
    The Israeli wrote: »
    When you say that, you probably also mean to the pre 1948 pogroms, and the 48 independence war.
    Also, you probably mean to the preaches at mosques that preach for Jews killing, and establishing Palestine from the Jordan river to the sea.

    ......and in 67 BCE, on Thursday, Feb 12th, about 3.30pm, a forefather of a Palestinian robbed three figs from the forefather of an Israeli settler. This justifies everything that Israel will ever do, especially colonies, and means that no good whatsoever can ever come from a Palestinian, as they're fig robbin bastards.


  • #184
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    czx wrote: »
    Condoning suicide attacks is not very 21st century. Disgusting hypocrisy from someone who claims to care about human suffering, regardless of sect.

    The rather bizarre fact of war is that one justifies a set of evils to prevent a greater.

    What would be your alternative - what would you suggest that the Palestinians do?


  • #185
    The Israeli
    Registered Users Posts: 413 ✭✭The Israeli


    Nodin wrote: »
    ...so you support the settlements then. Good man, honesty is always the best policy. That "I don't support them but..." act was wearing thin, lets face it.

    "terror"? It's armed resistance to colonisation. Seeing as the peaceful route of the UN and sanctions have been blocked, its unfortunately the only avenue open to them. Bit much to be complaining about the end result of your states Foreign policy, tbh.

    Nodin, you are a clown. I have said millions of times that I don't support settling beyond the green line. What are you joking about?

    However, I did say earlier the retreating from the settlements without an agreement that would be acceptable on all the military and political Palestinians forces and wouldn't arise violence is unacceptable. Now, try to fetch that agreement.

    Armed resistance is a very pretty expression for bombing buses and etc for political reasons. Yes political too, because people that explode themselves or stub soldiers at check points, or fire rockets from house yards of civilians "care a lot" for the civilians.


  • #186
    golden lane
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,364 ✭✭✭golden lane


    The Israeli wrote: »
    When you say that, you probably also mean to the pre 1948 pogroms, and the 48 independence war.
    Also, you probably mean to the preaches at mosques that preach for Jews killing, and establishing Palestine from the Jordan river to the sea.


    great idea........


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  • #187
    czx
    Registered Users Posts: 544 ✭✭✭czx


    Nodin wrote: »
    The rather bizarre fact of war is that one justifies a set of evils to prevent a greater.

    What would be your alternative - what would you suggest that the Palestinians do?

    Stop self-destructing. Lay down weapons. Act reasonably. Garner genuine support.


  • #188
    golden lane
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,364 ✭✭✭golden lane


    reasonable......are we talking about israel here.......


  • #189
    The Israeli
    Registered Users Posts: 413 ✭✭The Israeli


    golden lane wrote: »
    great idea........

    Join the IPSC club. I believe that many of its members share this great idea too.


  • #190
    golden lane
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,364 ✭✭✭golden lane


    The Israeli wrote: »
    Join the IPSC club. I believe that many of its members share this great idea too.

    never been in a club in my life......i am not in favour of hamas or any simular organisation.......

    i just don't think israel has the right to lands know as palestine.....


  • #191
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    The Israeli wrote: »
    Nodin, you are a clown. I have said millions of times that I don't support settling beyond the green line. What are you joking about.

    Yet there you are defending the Israeli position. Its like Benji when he says 'Israel wants peace'. There's dozens of caveats attached.
    The Israeli wrote: »
    However, I did say earlier the retreating from the settlements without an agreement that would be acceptable on all the military and political Palestinians forces and wouldn't arise violence is unacceptable. Now, try to fetch that agreement..

    Abbas, as has been pointed out to you before, has essentially dropped his bags and grabbed his ankles.
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/palestine-papers

    This and much like it is his reward.....
    http://peacenow.org.il/eng/netanyahu_trick
    The Israeli wrote: »
    Armed resistance is a very pretty expression for bombing buses and etc for political reasons.

    ...yes, because there is such a thing as a nice war.


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  • #192
    Zebra3
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,946 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    The Israeli wrote: »
    Nodin, you are a clown. I have said millions of times that I don't support settling beyond the green line. What are you joking about?

    However, I did say earlier the retreating from the settlements without an agreement that would be acceptable on all the military and political Palestinians forces and wouldn't arise violence is unacceptable. Now, try to fetch that agreement.

    Armed resistance is a very pretty expression for bombing buses and etc for political reasons. Yes political too, because people that explode themselves or stub soldiers at check points, or fire rockets from house yards of civilians "care a lot" for the civilians.

    I wonder who the Palestinians got those ideas about bombings from. :rolleyes:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing


  • #193
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    czx wrote: »
    Stop self-destructing. Lay down weapons. Act reasonably. Garner genuine support.


    You mean like in the West Bank and the areas under Fatah control? Yes, well they've done that. They've even gone a step further and been in full co-operation with Israeli security working against Hamas and other organisations.

    What's next?


  • #194
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Zebra3 wrote: »
    I wonder who the Palestinians got those ideas about bombings from. :rolleyes:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing


    ....don't be drawn.


    Really is a shame this isn't an olympic event.


  • #195
    The Israeli
    Registered Users Posts: 413 ✭✭The Israeli


    Zebra3 wrote: »
    I wonder who the Palestinians got those ideas about bombings from. :rolleyes:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing

    You and wes always bring up this thing.

    1) I think it was a terrorist act.
    2) They warned the Brits that they were going to bomb the Place. Read it. It's in your link. Do the Palestinians warn Israel before specific attacks and missiles fire? I don't think so.
    3) If to continue your way of thinking - maybe they have taken the motivation from Ireland, back in the ole days.
    4) It happened ages ago not against them. What's the relevance?!


  • #196
    Zebra3
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,946 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    The Israeli wrote: »
    You and wes always bring up this thing.

    1) I think it was a terrorist act.
    2) They warned the Brits that they were going to bomb the Place. Read it. It's in your link. Do the Palestinians warn Israel before specific attacks and missiles fire? I don't think so.
    3) If to continue your way of thinking - maybe they have taken the motivation from Ireland, back in the ole days.
    4) It happened ages ago not against them. What's the relevance?!

    The relevance is that this act of mass murder was carried out by a terrorist group that later became part of the Israeli (try not laugh) "Defence" Forces.

    Just like the destruction of over four hundred Palestinian towns and villages by zionist terror groups. And since the establishment of the stste of Israel those terror tactics and campaign of hate against non-jews have continued.

    Israel can occupy the West Bank pending a proper agreement but it has no right to colonise it, and carry out its war of terror on Gaza. So long as that happens, the Palestinians will stick up for themselves. Just like jews and Poles did against the nazis.


  • #197
    brimal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,217 ✭✭✭brimal


    The aggressive nature of the pro-Palestinian movement in Ireland needs to be addressed.

    Another recent example would be the personal abuse and intimidation thrown towards film-maker Nicky Larkin after his recent articles in the Indo. He had gone from pro-Palestinian to pro-Israel stance after spending several weeks in both areas.

    Some of the harassment he received was shocking.


    Then you also have one of the movement's mouthpieces, who I won't name, burning Israel flags in public, assaulting a Guard, banned from half of Dublin, etc. - not a good look.


  • #198
    The Israeli
    Registered Users Posts: 413 ✭✭The Israeli


    Zebra3 wrote: »
    The relevance is that this act of mass murder was carried out by a terrorist group that later became part of the Israeli (try not laugh) "Defence" Forces.

    Just like the destruction of over four hundred Palestinian towns and villages by zionist terror groups. And since the establishment of the stste of Israel those terror tactics and campaign of hate against non-jews have continued.

    Israel can occupy the West Bank pending a proper agreement but it has no right to colonise it, and carry out its war of terror on Gaza. So long as that happens, the Palestinians will stick up for themselves. Just like jews and Poles did against the nazis.

    The same way as the Irish independence fighters later became parts of the Irish Police, army and Government forces? ah?

    These organizations were unarmed and merged into IDF, and they have always been a minority, while the major group before the forming of IDF was Hahagana and mainly on it, IDF was based.
    It's not relevant to this discussion too.

    I agree that Israel shouldn't build beyond the green line at places that shouldn't remain under the Israeli hands after retreating and territory swaps.
    Funny, I think that the extremists that fight Israel don't want a two states solution, or any solution but exterminating Israel. That's why I don't think that terror attacks on the Israeli population is going hand in hand with a permanent solution.
    Also, I don't think that as I have mentioned earlier that firing from home yards, storing weapons under hospitals in mosques, exploding at check points through which Palestinians have to pass every day, and on their way to Israeli hospitals, at times (and trying to kill soldiers there will just make the checks slower) is going hand in hand with "stick up for themselves".

    You are constantly trying to justify their violence. A very not contributing stand.


  • #199
    golden lane
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,364 ✭✭✭golden lane


    The Israeli wrote: »
    The same way as the Irish independence fighters later became parts of the Irish Police, army and Government forces? ah?

    These organizations were unarmed and merged into IDF, and they have always been a minority, while the major group before the forming of IDF was Hahagana and mainly on it, IDF was based.
    It's not relevant to this discussion too.

    I agree that Israel shouldn't build beyond the green line in places that shouldn't remain in Israel hands after retreating and territory swaps.
    Funny, I think that the extremists that fight Israel don't want a two states solution, or any solution but exterminating Israel. That's why I don't think that terror attacks on the Israeli population is going hand in hand with a permanent solution.
    Also, I don't think that as I have mentioned earlier that firing from home yards, storing weapons under hospitals in mosques, exploding at check points through which Palestinians have to pass every day, and on their way to Israeli hospitals, at times (and trying to kill soldiers there will just make the checks slower) is going hand in hand with "stick up for themselves".

    You are constantly trying to justify their violence. A very not contributing stand.


    well, i am not trying to justify any violance.........trying to avoid it in fact....

    now can you give the palestinians their country back.......please..


  • #200
    Phill Ewinn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,007 ✭✭✭Phill Ewinn


    The Israeli wrote: »
    Also, I don't think that as I have mentioned earlier that firing from home yards, storing weapons under hospitals in mosques, exploding at check points through which Palestinians have to pass every day, and on their way to Israeli hospitals, at times (and trying to kill soldiers there will just make the checks slower)


    Wanted: palestinian military depot, may swap for basic human rights.


  • #201
    The Israeli
    Registered Users Posts: 413 ✭✭The Israeli


    golden lane wrote: »
    well, i am not trying to justify any violance.........trying to avoid it in fact....

    now can you give the palestinians their country back.......please..

    Right after we agree on a lasting peace, we would narrow up our borders.

    _____

    Here is a different act of solidarity:
    In case you happen to be in Dublin.
    http://tiny.cc/u1g2dw

    http://www.foleysbar.com/


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