The Perfect Program

cmyk · 07-05-2013 12:07pm

Will Heffernan wrote: »

For me personally...the programs I do myself are closer to 1:2 pushing to pulling.

Out of interest (and in general) do you think that sort of protocol negates the need for specific external rotation work.

Will Heffernan wrote: »

Agreed. I've had an online client who have paid me for consultations and advice over a 4 month period who actually did nothing...I am giving you the short version of the story but what essentially happen is that he got his program, sent me questions, I sent him answers and that continued for 4 months....he wanted to make sure his program was PERFECT before he did anything....so while he was awaiting perfection he did absolutely no training.

Makes me wonder if it would have been done, even if it was 'perfect'

Will Heffernan wrote: »

Even more reason why good trainers need to do good marketing and sales work. Even if it makes you feel dirty and unwholesome

I'm working on that.

Will Heffernan wrote: »

Someone should do that and then I will gather them all up and stick them in the first post as you suggested.

I'll give it a go when I've time to go through it.

Zombienosh · 07-05-2013 12:40pm

What are peoples opinions on full body routines?

Will Heffernan · 07-05-2013 1:31pm

cmyk wrote: »

Out of interest (and in general) do you think that sort of protocol negates the need for specific external rotation work.

Not specifically....as in no, I don't think double the volume = negates the need for specific external rotation work.

What I do thinks makes a difference is all the pull ups, chins ups, db rows, seated rows, standing and seated cable rows...all the different supine, prone and mixed grips...all the variations of grips types of 'pulls/rows' I do.

Will Heffernan · 07-05-2013 1:35pm

Zombienosh wrote: »

What are peoples opinions on full body routines?

It is what I lean towards...put I can see the reason for split routines. I start off with the result needed first and work my way back to work out what program is needed. I've previously worked with two Australasian Bodybuilding Champs and it was all split routines because thats what the sport requires.

If I was a skinny kid though starting out with weight training I certainly wouldn't start with a split routine though.

cheesefiend · 07-05-2013 10:25pm

Out of curiosity (and probably stupidity), I'm just wondering are these programs suitable for women too?

cmyk · 08-05-2013 8:29am

cheesefiend wrote: »

Out of curiosity (and probably stupidity), I'm just wondering are these programs suitable for women too?

Not stupid at all, yes absolutely is the answer.

Everything discussed already still applies...its just spread over 13 pages now, which is why I think there's a need to simplify it a bit now or at least gather it into a more manageable post...ill give it a go today as I've more time.

cmyk · 08-05-2013 10:27am

Ok, I've given this a go from the view of generally setting up a program despite the goal, feel free to add or take away some of these, they are only my simplification of what's gone before...some of them are probably very obvious to some, less so to others.

Will Heffernan wrote: »

What do we need to do to warm up?
What exercises?
Set and rep schemes?
Training frequency?
Do we need Oly lifting?

All variables, and have been discussed throughout.

Will Heffernan wrote: »

What does it take to build the perfect program?

• Work backwards from the goal/result
• Technique - get some and make sure it's right from the start
• Compound movements fundamental
• Consideration for total volume
• Consideration for exercise order
• Consideration for hip/quad ratio and push/pull in different plane ratio
• Consideration of periodization or variation
• Consideration of time available for training
• Consideration of motivation/enjoyability for adherence
• Dietary/Recovery influence (not yet discussed but an area that might be of interest, especially as those threads of people that drill themselves into the ground training surviving on a daily protein shake, chicken breast, an apple, 4 almonds and the necessary 3 cans of monster to get them through the workout pop up a bit.)

As Gaeilge · 08-05-2013 4:35pm

Will Heffernan wrote: »

1. You've done a good job.
2. You can halve the inverted row number...as with push ups the loading isn't BW and like push ups the 'actual' loading is dependent on body angle and hand position...just to make it easy and because it is usually not too far off...I just halve BW to calculate the resistance.
3. Looking at the DB press I am assuming you are doing 25's for 20 reps for 2 sets rather than 12.5kg a hand so that volume should be doubled. Correct me if I am wrong?
4. With the rear delt work again I am going to assume you are using 12kg a hand so that needs to be doubled.

So from what I see your pushing volume is...1765+2000+3800+1155 = 8720kg
Your pulling volume is 2850+1600+1150+1425=7025kg

The quad verus hip volumes are 3000kg to 7000kg.

I will tell you what I think...easiest bit first...the quad to hip ratio isn't too far off what I look for myself...I usually say 1:2 ratio. I have a lot of reasons for that which I won't go into now...but thats what I look for.

Now your pushing to pulling ration is 1:0.8. When I first looked at it I actually thought it was about 1:1 but it isn't even that. I don't go around making exact calculations when I am writing programs but my push to pull ratio is pretty much always 1:1.5 or more. For me personally...the programs I do myself are closer to 1:2 pushing to pulling. Again there are a million reasons for this but suffice to say 1. I've not had a injury that was 'training' related in a long, long, long time. 2. I am in my 40's and still fighting all day at work and then fighting in my spare time and my body handles it all without a bother. 3. Look at the total mass of the muscles involved in pushing and pulling. Think about what constitutes appropriate loading and volume in relation to the mass differential between the two muscle groups.

In short...your program is pretty good and no need to stress about it...add some more pulling volume...some more pull ups/chin up and you'd probably find all your numbers improving while bulletproofing yourself against and instance of chronic injury in the future.

Thank you for this - I had never considered my training in terms of volume before - very useful train of thought/approach.

duffyshuffle · 08-05-2013 4:39pm

Will Heffernan wrote: »

I am going to come back and edit this...as it develops.

Firstly, what are the majority of people looking for?

You have fatties looking to get stronger and or bigger.
You have fatties looking to get fit.
You have fatties looking to just look good nekid.
You have twigs looking to get stronger and or bigger.
You have twigs looking to get fit.
You have twigs looking to just look good nekid.

Does that cover it?

Lets build some training templates and rules for all of these? If nothing else it will give us something cool to argue about for hours on end.

What do we need to do to warm up?
What exercises?
Set and rep schemes?
Training frequency?
Do we need Oly lifting?
What does it take to build the perfect program?

Pick a program and lay it out...then the spoilers can start picking holes in it, the navel gazers can make sure we are using the right terminology, the google warriors can do their searches and see if anyone is ripping anyone else off...I like to be a builder rather than a destroyer so I will start laying stuff out and people can question it all they like...same for all...be prepared to defend anything you put down or throw out here...we can even hold little mini votes to decide what path the perfect program is going down.

So give us what you got!

Ok, been reading the threads, some good stuff, so maybe some more specifics. I like the looking at the goal and working backwards point.

So... imagine someone doing Starting Strength with some CF metcon style stuff and or cycling/running etc.. No milk, and no getting massive.

The clear goal of starting strength is getting strong, but the main goal of 90%+ is probably the look good neked so does this make SS less appropriate if strength numbers are irrelevant?

Stats (of me and similar for friends and i'd say many that have gone down the SS route while ignoring the original look good neked plan? guessing):

DL 190kg, BS 135kg, Bench 100kg, Press 65kg, chins 11, Bw: 96KG bf: 13%

Agree on foam rolling, warm up, mobility work and emphasis on technique.

3 days a week weights seems like a regular occurrence for the 90%+ training, with some conditioning/running/football or whatever people do on other days. Again, not the top level competitive people, the general.

So a 3/5 x 5 routine (after warm up and warm up sets), 3 days a week like:

Monday: Squat, Press, Chins
Wednesday: Deadlift (1 x 5), Bench, Ring Rows
Friday: F Squat, B/O row, Ring Dips

So:
- Person used SS to get 'stronger' and as it comes recommended by many and was motivated enough but didn't bother with the milk/bulking
- Person has plateaued/gotten bored/realised they're stronger but not ready for a bodybuilding stage just yet
- Person has realised they don't really care about training for weeks to add 2.5kg to their strict press and max strength wasn't really the goal

So:
What do we need to do to warm up?
Foam roll, mobility work

What exercises?
Similar as above?

Set and rep schemes?
So what is aim for reps/sets and recovery time between them?

Training frequency?
3 times a week weights with conditioning and some rest days

Do we need Oly lifting?
Can be added, but not necessary?

What does it take to build the perfect program?
It doesn't have to be perfect, but more appropriate for the user. The focus on the goal rather than the program is a good thing i've taken out of the thread so far definitely.

Double decker · 12-05-2013 12:15pm

hey i don't have time to read the entire thread can someone just repost the best program please

COH · 12-05-2013 12:28pm

Double decker wrote: »

hey i don't have time to read the entire thread can someone just repost the best program please

Seven hundred thousand bird-dogs and an air squat

Will Heffernan · 12-05-2013 12:52pm

COH wrote: »

Seven hundred thousand bird-dogs and an air squat

Seven hundred thousand would be excessive.

I suppose that is unless you were one of those morons that rabbit on endlessly about the whole 10,000 hrs to mastery stuff like it actually means anything...in which case it sounds PERFECT.

Will Heffernan · 12-05-2013 12:55pm

COH wrote: »

Seven hundred thousand bird-dogs and an air squat

Ohhh and are those air squats to parallel or below? Personally I don't mind if you break parallel as long as your knees don't go out past your toes...if they do they might explode.

the drifter · 12-05-2013 3:10pm

Double decker wrote: »

hey i don't have time to read the entire thread can someone just repost the best program please

I think everyone came to the conclusion that it doesnt exist. But Will is waiting for someone to invent it... possibly Hanely. Then Will will ( thats confusing) claim he invented it first.

In years it will emerge that it was actually from an ancient ebook from Lyle McDonald which he managed to release before the internet even existed.

Hanley · 12-05-2013 4:06pm

the drifter wrote: »

I think everyone came to the conclusion that it doesnt exist. But Will is waiting for someone to invent it... possibly Hanely. Then Will will ( thats confusing) claim he invented it first.

In years it will emerge that it was actually from an ancient ebook from Lyle McDonald which he managed to release before the internet even existed.

Big plastic box ala "The Cube" tv show.

If you touch the front (thoracic flexion), a blade comes out and slices your nose off. If you're knees touch the front, hammer to the knee caps. If you don't keep you're knees pushed against the side the entire time, instant hacksaw to the Achilles.

Mobility. Or crippility

Will Heffernan · 12-05-2013 10:26pm

the drifter wrote: »

I think everyone came to the conclusion that it doesnt exist.

It exists...it's just that someone else is doing it.

But Will is waiting for someone to invent it... possibly Hanely. Then Will will ( thats confusing) claim he invented it first.

I invented claiming I invented stuff first.

In years it will emerge that it was actually from an ancient ebook from Lyle McDonald which he managed to release before the internet even existed.

Does he even lift.

btkm8unsl0w5r4 · 13-05-2013 5:58pm

This is easy, the perfect program is the one from the person trainer that:

1. Costs the most.
2. Spends at least 90 days a year on courses in America.
3. Has the most facebook followers.
4. Sends the most Emails with motivational slogans, crap analagies, pictures of the same 5 clients sucking their gut in in the after shots.
5. Sells the most products.

Said trainer must have the following to develop such a program:
1. Celebrity clients
2. Failed Sporting carrier or sporting claim to fame.
3. The ability to believe anything told to them by a guru they see as having more success than them.

This program will involve.
1. Constant changes to " confuse the body into change", this will not involve progressive overload but total change to the program requiring continuous and constant personal training.
2. Dubious body fat measurements less accurate than a count the beans in the jar game.
3. Claims of lifestyle change and sustainability that require you to spend all your waking life preparing food, training, shopping for food, working to pay for said food, thinking about food, thinking about training, washing gym cloths.
4. Regardless of your form doing exercises your doing them wrong.
5. Many many supplements....BCA's inbetween sets anyone.
6. Contradictionary Broscience from day to day.
7. Carrying around tuberware containers of food.
8. Use of the phrase "studies have shown" with any mention of the details of these studies.
9. Training at times of the day that dont suit you. This is not to fill empty slots in the gym but because fat cell only shrink when your rushed and making your life difficult.
10. A prowler....cause thats hardcore american football stuff yo.

Hanley · 13-05-2013 8:15pm

Dayana Billions Rainy wrote: »

This is easy, the perfect program is the one from the person trainer:

1. Costs the most.
2. Spends at least 90 days a year on courses in America.
3. Has the most facebook followers.
4. Sends the most Emails with motivational slogans, crap analagies, pictures of the same 5 clients sucking their gut in in the after shots.
5. Sells the most products.

...there's a well know trainer going around photoshopping now too.

the drifter · 14-05-2013 10:35pm

Jesus....we were all wrong...

http://www.sixweekmuscleplan.com/

Robbed from some facebook of some personal trainer who spent 90 days in America on top of some guru.

Brian? · 15-05-2013 8:27am

the drifter wrote: »

Jesus....we were all wrong...

http://www.sixweekmuscleplan.com/

Robbed from some facebook of some personal trainer who spent 90 days in America on top of some guru.

Skinny guy-ripped guy before and after pic-check.

Endorsed by fitness gurus, none other than Poliquin himself- check

Short attention span, 6 weeks-check.

It is the perfect program.

Will I lock the thread now??

the drifter · 15-05-2013 9:21am

Brian? wrote: »

Skinny guy-ripped guy before and after pic-check.

Endorsed by fitness gurus, none other than Poliquin himself- check

Short attention span, 6 weeks-check.

It is the perfect program.

Will I lock the thread now??

No hold on a bit...we need to wait until Will can claim he invented it first.

Will Heffernan · 03-09-2013 5:21pm

Brian? wrote: »

Skinny guy-ripped guy before and after pic-check.

Endorsed by fitness gurus, none other than Poliquin himself- check

Short attention span, 6 weeks-check.

It is the perfect program.

Will I lock the thread now??

Have seen a trainer posting some pretty dodgy and pretty factually inaccurate before and after photos of late myself actually. The opposite of this case...fat before pics and in shape after pics with a made up story to go along with it. So it isn't just the trainers we like to mock and laugh at that get up to dishonest marking scams with before and after pics.

Brian? · 03-09-2013 5:50pm

Will Heffernan wrote: »

Have seen a trainer posting some pretty dodgy and pretty factually inaccurate before and after photos of late myself actually. The opposite of this case...fat before pics and in shape after pics with a made up story to go along with it. So it isn't just the trainers we like to mock and laugh at that get up to dishonest marking scams with before and after pics.

Someone in Ireland?

Will Heffernan · 03-09-2013 5:54pm

Brian? wrote: »

Someone in Ireland?

Why do you ask? Do you have someone in particular in mind?

Brian? · 03-09-2013 5:56pm

Will Heffernan wrote: »

Why do you ask? Do you have someone in particular in mind?

Not at all. I don't really frequent PTs websites. Just curious.

It's a cheap trick though.

burrenguy · 04-09-2013 5:42pm

Someone needs to make a compilation post or else the OP needs to be edited. Please and thank you. Every newb will appreciate

Brian? · 04-09-2013 5:46pm

burrenguy wrote: »

Someone needs to make a compilation post or else the OP needs to be edited. Please and thank you. Every newb will appreciate

If a consensus was ever reached that might work

.

burrenguy · 04-09-2013 6:46pm

Brian? wrote: »

If a consensus was ever reached that might work .

From skimming, it seems most people seem to agree that 2-3 days of strength training (high-ish weight, low-ish reps), 2-3 days of conditioning and general mobility work every day seems to be the way to go.. would that be pretty accurate?

Dravokivich · 05-09-2013 8:59am

the drifter wrote: »

Jesus....we were all wrong...

http://www.sixweekmuscleplan.com/

Robbed from some facebook of some personal trainer who spent 90 days in America on top of some guru.

If it's six weeks, why are the before/after shots at the bottom 12 weeks?

Hanley · 05-09-2013 9:05am

Dravokivich wrote: »

If it's six weeks, why are the before/after shots at the bottom 12 weeks?

Because like it says on the website, it's from the author of the 12 week muscle plan.

Will Heffernan · 05-09-2013 10:00am

I've a friend who is a strength and conditioning coach and fitness writer/aspiring fitness guru that had told me that a mate of his who is a college athlete was paid by another fitness guru to 'blob out' for before and after photos.

Only the 'after' photos were taken first then the athlete got as fat a he could over the following 8 weeks at which time the 'before' photos were taken.

This is the absolute bullish*t the fitness and nutrition industry is built on. Any time you see before and after photos that should set off alarm bells...especially when used in sales and marketing.

Without racing off to the google machine try some of the following:

1. Count in your own head how many international fitness guru's you can name? Then count how many international coaches of Olympians you know?

2. What about Ireland? How many coaches of Irish Olympians can you name? What about 'personal trainers'?

3. How many products can you think of that have been produced by coaches that have produced Olympians? How many products can you think of that are marketed by personal trainers that have made a few fat people less fat.

It is sad...every time I see a personal trainer post before and after photos of clients....all I think of is....'Where's the rest of the photos?'. Show me the before and after photos of ALL your clients. If you are promising results in 21 days, 8 weeks, 12 weeks and you are marketing these programs....show me ALL you clients photos. It's a complete joke.

Alf Veedersane · 05-09-2013 10:10am

Furious Pete did a before-and-after thing in the space of five hours

runawaybishop · 05-09-2013 11:24am

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Furious Pete did a before-and-after thing in the space of five hours

1 hour before and after

Hanley · 05-09-2013 2:12pm

Will Heffernan wrote: »

It is sad...every time I see a personal trainer post before and after photos of clients....all I think of is....'Where's the rest of the photos?'. Show me the before and after photos of ALL your clients. If you are promising results in 21 days, 8 weeks, 12 weeks and you are marketing these programs....show me ALL you clients photos. It's a complete joke.

Bit facetious. If a program can deliver results, it can deliver results.

Whether it does or not depends on the 160+ hours in the week when a client ISN'T in the gym.

Showing the before/after pics of people who weren't as successful just shows people can **** things up on themselves and doesn't say a whole heap about the quality of training.

A better test would be a before/after photo, and then the same photo of the same person 6 months later.

Will Heffernan · 05-09-2013 2:27pm

Hanley wrote: »

Bit facetious.

I don't think so. If you aren't willing to admit to your failures as a trainer/coach then I don't think you should be taking all the credit for the successes.

If a program can deliver results, it can deliver results.

Well as has been shown in the few posts above here....doing nothing at all 'looks' like it delivers outstanding results.

Whether it does or not depends on the 160+ hours in the week when a client ISN'T in the gym.

Exactly....so what is the trainer/coach taking credit for then?

Showing the before/after pics of people who weren't as successful just shows people can **** things up on themselves and doesn't say a whole heap about the quality of training.

Exactly my point...putting up the individuals DNA sequence would probably be more honest.

A better test would be a before/after photo, and then the same photo of the same person 6 months later.

I just think it is completely bogus way of marketing. I also think that the people who do it know that it is completely bogus as well and just justify it to themselves anyway they can.

Will Heffernan · 05-09-2013 2:43pm

Personally...I think it's more acceptable for a nutritionist to put up before and after photos. I see people all the time here posting along the lines of...'it's 90% diet and 10% training' and 'you can't out train a bad diet' etc etc and I happen to agree with that generalisation. Diet/nutrition is way more important with regards body composition so unless people are eating all their food in the gym or your home studio or at your bootcamp in the park then I think posting before and after pics as some sort of an example of a particular training program is just a scam.

If you are a trainer/coach....then post performance videos. Show your client/athlete going from doing zero to doing lots...from not doing any pull ups to doing lots for example...that's down to the trainer/coach, their program, their coaching and what they could get out of the client/athlete in the gym. As you pointed out...the trainer/coach actually has bugger all to do with what the client is doing in the 160+ hours that they are not in the gym.

Will Heffernan · 05-09-2013 3:15pm

I do know 'why' coaches/trainers do it...all I am saying is that I think that it is disingenuous and anyone that is a decent and knowledgable coach/trainer knows that it's disingenuous as well.

I agree with your 'A better test would be a before/after photo, and then the same photo of the same person 6 months later.' comment even though it's taken me 30 minutes or so to understand what you meant.

Personally I'd be waaaay happier with that...here's the person 'before' they started with me and here they are 'after' x weeks and here they are every x weeks after that.

I know that it's not an ideal world and selling fitness is just as dodgy as selling pretty much anything else...like selling white bread for instance. That aside I don't think it is a big ask to start with some ideals and standards and try to live up to them rather than to live down to everyone else's.

Sangre · 05-09-2013 3:29pm

Will Heffernan wrote: »

I do know 'why' coaches/trainers do it...all I am saying is that I think that it is disingenuous and anyone that is a decent and knowledgable coach/trainer knows that it's disingenuous as well.

How else does a knowledge coach/trainer promote his 'brand' then? Does one just rely on past results and/or word of mouth? You could be broke by time you build a business then.

While I agree fully that these promotions don't give the full picture of a trainer, surely part of the logic of them is that its very difficult for a non-professional to spot a knowledge coach and these promotions give a quick and easy point of reference/success(even if it is only a 12 week before and after)?

diegowhite · 05-09-2013 3:39pm

Will Heffernan wrote: »

If you are a trainer/coach....then post performance videos. Show your client/athlete going from doing zero to doing lots...from not doing any pull ups to doing lots for example...that's down to the trainer/coach, their program, their coaching and what they could get out of the client/athlete in the gym. As you pointed out...the trainer/coach actually has bugger all to do with what the client is doing in the 160+ hours that they are not in the gym.

I like that idea - noted.

Will Heffernan · 05-09-2013 3:49pm

Firstly...LOL.

I am still laughing writing this response...not laughing at you but the irony of asking me about being commercially successful as a trainer.

The being successful as a coach bit I have down pat...the bit where you convince a person/organisation to pay you to coach athletes that they pay I can do.

Being commercially successful at getting individuals to pay me to coach them I am not successful at. I gave a presentation the other day that included my little anecdote to explain how little I understand fitness clients and I will write it in brief here only because I use it in lots of presentations I do and it is probably the best lesson I learned about sales and marketing with regard to the fitness industry.

In short...when we started IP it cost 79 euros a month...we got to the stage when we had just over 100 members and I got sick of giving people 1 euro in change every month. I wanted to put the price up to 80 euros...my argument was that everyone knows that 79 euros and 80 euros is the same thing etc etc. Barry and Dan were both against it...basically their point amongst others was that it did matter....anyway....as I said...this is the short version...the price went up to 80 euro and the month we did we lost 13 members...we basically lost a significant amount of our membership over 1 euro.

I didn't understand it then and I still don't understand it now.

I could write a book about what not to do commercially in the fitness industry and then write another book about how to be successful in professional and elite sport....one I get and one I don't.

Anyway...I've stopped laughing now and on with your points.

Sangre wrote: »

How else does a knowledge coach/trainer promote his 'brand' then?

I have no idea. That said...I know what I'd like to see. 1. I'd like to see their 'philosophy'. 2. I would like to see the results of their clients...personally I think it is more impressive when I see a girl go from doing no pull ups to doing a few or to see an older/novice client doing a body weight squat/deadlift with decent form. I prefer this to seeing some jakt guy going from deadlifting improving their deadlift from 1.98xBW to 2.09xBW...no matter how impressive the 200+kg deadlift is.

Does one just rely on past results and/or word of mouth? You could be broke by time you build a business then.

Tell me about it

While I agree fully that these promotions don't give the full picture of a trainer, surely part of the logic of them is that its very difficult for a non-professional to spot a knowledge coach and these promotions give a quick and easy point of reference/success(even if it is only a 12 week before and after)?

As I said...I know 'why' they do it...I am just saying that I don't like it is all.

Sangre · 05-09-2013 4:08pm

I can't say I'm surprised at all by your experience.

I'm also a professional who provides advice for money (although within an organisation so I'm not tasked with shaking trees personally). On the face of it, a lay person has no idea if my advice is better than that of a competitor and therefore we primarily judged both on our 'soft skills' e.g. clarity, presentation and personal skills as well as our ability to market ourselves.

On top of that price is also a significant factor. A lay person who can't discern between a good product and a great product will often choose the cheaper option (unless he correlates price with quality!).

However, every person in our industry can tell you exactly who the best are in their area (much like you experience with other fitness professionals).

Its both frustrating and interesting. Being the best isn't good enough, you have to also convince people you're the best.

Henry9 · 05-09-2013 6:48pm

Sangre wrote: »

How else does a knowledge coach/trainer promote his 'brand' then? Does one just rely on past results and/or word of mouth? You could be broke by time you build a business then

Easy, just start posting all over facebook and twitter about how awesome your 'clients' are and how proud you are of them, some people will recognise this as a thinly veiled pat on the back for yourself, but a lot won't.

Post vacuous inspirational quotes, and pictures of some lad with no legs lifting a kettlebell. This identifies you as being aligned with them and allows you to fingerpoint at everyone else for being weak.

Never eat another meal without first posting a picture of it on the internet.

Post passive aggressive messages about 'some people' and what they think, or how they train, or what they're saying about you behind your back.

Constantly bang on about how many hours you work, but that you wouldn't change a thing #bestjobintheworld.

Just generally become a self absorbed, self promoting, narcissistic arsehole.

The worst thing that ever happened to 'fitness' or what ever was when it became a branch of the self help industry. What CF realised better than anybody else was that people want validation and endless back patting.
All you are seeing now is the logical extension of that philosophy.

Will Heffernan · 05-09-2013 11:14pm

Henry9 wrote: »

Easy, just start posting all over facebook and twitter about how awesome your 'clients' are and how proud you are of them, some people will recognise this as a thinly veiled pat on the back for yourself, but a lot won't.

Post vacuous inspirational quotes, and pictures of some lad with no legs lifting a kettlebell. This identifies you as being aligned with them and allows you to fingerpoint at everyone else for being weak.

Never eat another meal without first posting a picture of it on the internet.

Post passive aggressive messages about 'some people' and what they think, or how they train, or what they're saying about you behind your back.

Constantly bang on about how many hours you work, but that you wouldn't change a thing #bestjobintheworld.

Just generally become a self absorbed, self promoting, narcissistic arsehole.

The worst thing that ever happened to 'fitness' or what ever was when it became a branch of the self help industry. What CF realised better than anybody else was that people want validation and endless back patting.
All you are seeing now is the logical extension of that philosophy.

I was trying to think if there was anything you missed that should of been on that list....but there was actually one or two items on that list that I didn't even think of.

I wish I could 'thank' this more as I will be smiling to myself about it all day

workoutadvice · 06-09-2013 7:26pm

Hi long time lurker, there seems to be some good advice by knowledgeable dudes knocking about here so i was wondering could some one point me in the right direction with my program, apologies if this isn't correct place to post this.

goal: get stronger / look better naked

the gym im in has Olympic bars but no squat rack, so i can deadlift and bench but not squat not with a bar anyway. im keeping rep range for main excercises in 3 x 6 range for strength and bit of size, and assistance ones 3x10. coming back to lifting after a break due to laziness but ive done all major lifts before with proper technique.

Warm up all days focusing on mobility and working up to working weights.
Monday :
Deadlift 3x6
RDL 3x10
Lunges walking 3x12

Core
( weight sit ups / revers crunches and the like)

wednesday:
Bench Press 3 x 6
chin ups 3 x 6
dips parallel bars 3 x max
cable tri press downs 3 x 10
Db bi curls 3 x 10

friday:
D.B. goblet squats? (only decent squat variation i can think of there is a leg press but presume id be better off without that) 3 x 6 although im afraid DBs dont go heavy enough to benifit off 6 reps
D.B. clean and press 3 x 6
inverted row 3 x max

core

Theres definitely stuff missing missplaced, if any one could point me in right direction it would be swell

TheZ · 06-09-2013 8:17pm

Will's posts in this forum are top class internetting.

kevpants · 06-09-2013 11:39pm

Henry9 wrote: »

Easy, just start posting all over facebook and twitter about how awesome your 'clients' are and how proud you are of them, some people will recognise this as a thinly veiled pat on the back for yourself, but a lot won't.

Post vacuous inspirational quotes, and pictures of some lad with no legs lifting a kettlebell. This identifies you as being aligned with them and allows you to fingerpoint at everyone else for being weak.

Never eat another meal without first posting a picture of it on the internet.

Post passive aggressive messages about 'some people' and what they think, or how they train, or what they're saying about you behind your back.

Constantly bang on about how many hours you work, but that you wouldn't change a thing #bestjobintheworld.

Just generally become a self absorbed, self promoting, narcissistic arsehole.

The worst thing that ever happened to 'fitness' or what ever was when it became a branch of the self help industry. What CF realised better than anybody else was that people want validation and endless back patting.
All you are seeing now is the logical extension of that philosophy.

I saw an interview with Nicolas Cage a few weeks ago where he expressed surprise that people didn't think he was "in on the joke". I think it's important to ask whether these trainers aren't also "in on the joke".

It's marketing. This.

If you've ever been exposed to what it takes to do "marketing" you'd move to a small cabin in some woodland and live off the land, so shocked would you be at the evil that permeates every facet of our daily lives.

DID YOU KNOW... Coke and Pepsi are the same. They taste the same. They've proven it. Same molecules. Do you know why they taste different TO YOU. Marketing. Seriously.

Fitness is ripe to be sucked into the world of marketing, people's body image is a massive chink in so many people's armour. You can completely take advantage of that and make money by basically being a massive metophorical mother's teat to comfort them in their insecure modern lives.

Will Heffernan · 07-09-2013 1:28am

workoutadvice wrote: »

Hi long time lurker, there seems to be some good advice by knowledgeable dudes knocking about here so i was wondering could some one point me in the right direction with my program, apologies if this isn't correct place to post this.

goal: get stronger / look better naked

the gym im in has Olympic bars but no squat rack, so i can deadlift and bench but not squat not with a bar anyway. im keeping rep range for main excercises in 3 x 6 range for strength and bit of size, and assistance ones 3x10. coming back to lifting after a break due to laziness but ive done all major lifts before with proper technique.

Warm up all days focusing on mobility and working up to working weights.
Monday :
Deadlift 3x6
RDL 3x10
Lunges walking 3x12

Core
( weight sit ups / revers crunches and the like)

wednesday:
Bench Press 3 x 6
chin ups 3 x 6
dips parallel bars 3 x max
cable tri press downs 3 x 10
Db bi curls 3 x 10

friday:
D.B. goblet squats? (only decent squat variation i can think of there is a leg press but presume id be better off without that) 3 x 6 although im afraid DBs dont go heavy enough to benifit off 6 reps
D.B. clean and press 3 x 6
inverted row 3 x max

core

Theres definitely stuff missing missplaced, if any one could point me in right direction it would be swell

1. Hi...it's good that you moved from lurking to posting...both or either are fine but I always think it better to be part of the problem and part of the solution.

2. I am going to tell you what I think...the thing that you have to keep in mind that there isn't one solution...there isn't two solutions but just off the top of my head I think I could come up with enough training variables to keep you busy for the rest of your life. You could Oly lift....and get in great nick...you could take a bodybuilding focus....and achieve your goals....you could circuit train.....and on and on I could go.

3. Personally...with novice trainers I pretty much always lean towards a full body program...I do this because it increases the frequency of training exposure to each muscle group and it allows more total work to get done every week by spreading out that individual muscle group fatigue.

4. Also I think no matter what your training age...you should get some exposure to all the rep ranges...which I think I've crapped on about here in detail previously but in short they are a few, some or lots. A few (1-5), some (8-12) and lots (15+).

5. So based on what you have written here and the program you've designed for yourself what I'd do with regard tweaking what you've outlined is as follows:

a) We will assume that you warm up well.
b) We will also assume that you are undertaking a balanced and properly structured core/trunk training program.

Monday :
Deadlift 6x3
Lunges walking 3x12
Bench Press 3 x 6
DB Biceps Curls 3 x 12

Wednesday:
DB Goblet Squats 3x6
RDL 3x12
Chin Ups 3 x 6
Cable Tricep Press Downs 3 x 12

Friday:
D.B. clean and press 3 x 6
Dips Parallel Bars 3 x max
Inverted Row 3 x max

So there is basically the same constituent components of your program in a properly thought out and purposefully structured layout.

Duck's hoop · 07-09-2013 8:45am

kevpants wrote: »

DID YOU KNOW... Coke and Pepsi are the same. They taste the same. They've proven it. Same molecules. Do you know why they taste different TO YOU. Marketing. Seriously.

No chance. Heineken and Carlsberg are interchangable though.

But agreed on the rest.

Hanley · 07-09-2013 8:50am

Duck's hoop wrote: »

No chance. Heineken and Carlsberg are interchangable though.

But agreed on the rest.

I know there was a test where they put coke in a Pepsi can and vice versa and had ppl do taste tests, and despite previous assertions to whic they preferred, they chose the CAN/brand they preferred and not the taste.

Person says the prefer coke - both in separate glasses, coke wins. Pepsi on a coke can and coke in a Pepsi can... Pepsi in coke can wins.

Hanley · 07-09-2013 8:51am

Most of what you see from PT's is more advertising than marketing anyway.

The Perfect Program

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