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more irish water nonsense

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    #152
    donegal__road
    Closed Accounts Posts: 953 ✭✭✭donegal__road


    Phoebas wrote: »
    There's a pattern in play alright.
    You come along, drop in some off topic nonsense, don't engage in the substantive debate and then feck off again.

    I have attempted to engage before many times, but it is pointless. I have better things to do... g'day everyone.


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    #153
    Rucking_Fetard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,260 ✭✭✭Rucking_Fetard


    Was their ever anymore about these meters making the water unsafe?

    The useless regulator shouldn't have went back and made the free allowance a daily rate, and then cut it for kids aswell wasn't it?

    What is the average rate?


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    #154
    MRnotlob606
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,642 ✭✭✭MRnotlob606


    Phoebas wrote: »
    ^^ Sounds like freeman bollixology tbh.

    No Sounds like common sense to me.


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    #155
    Phoebas
    Registered Users Posts: 9,370 ✭✭✭Phoebas


    db wrote: »
    None of the staff moving over from local authorities will be let go until after they retire or decide to leave themselves. After that their pensions will have to be paid for so I struggle to see where any huge savings will be made. If this was a number of private companies merging there would be staff reductions and this would generate savings. Do you really think you will be paying less in future for water than you are now through your general taxes? Remember that there are no plans to reduce general tax to compensate for water charges. According to Simon Coveney it currently costs €1.5bn to run the water system. It will be interesting to see what the cost will be in 5 years time.

    There are plans for a voluntary redundancy scheme and they do have quite an old workforce, do while it'll take some time (and it'll be expensive), the scope for savings is clear.

    I hope that the cost of running the system increases in the medium term. Currently we are under investing.


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    #156
    Zubeneschamali
    Registered Users Posts: 16,686 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    That's all well and good, But it's done on Average on unmetered property.

    An argument for more metering, not less. Don't see those often.


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    #157
    db
    Registered Users Posts: 1,079 ✭✭✭db


    Phoebas wrote: »
    There are plans for a voluntary redundancy scheme and they do have quite an old workforce, do while it'll take some time (and it'll be expensive), the scope for savings is clear.

    I hope that the cost of running the system increases in the medium term. Currently we are under investing.

    Any investment made should pay for itself, otherwise it's not an investment it's waste. Unfortunately this is a concept the public service in this country do not understand.


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    #158
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Daith wrote: »
    I'm assuming at some stage Irish Water will have to bring in a standing charge. If they don't then water rates will go up (while the politics side will still have people wanting their "free" allowance)
    Nah, I'd say they'll just reduce the free allowance.


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    #159
    Ogham
    Registered Users Posts: 1,844 ✭✭✭Ogham


    MYOB wrote: »
    Not a chance. Standard scare story being perpetrated and nothing else.

    UK is one of the only places that's done that and they've sold everything that's not nailed down. We haven't.

    ???
    Bord Gais Energy - sold off http://www.moneyguideireland.com/centrica-now-own-bord-gais-energy.html
    Eircom - Sold Off
    Lotto - Sold Off
    ESB - 4 power stations sold off so far http://www.moneyguideireland.com/more-news-on-sell-off-of-state-assets.html

    I bet people were saying when Bord Gais was launched that it would never be sold off... just like they are saying about Irish Water now. Why didn't they call it Bord ... whatever? Maybe because it would cause problems down the line if they try and sell it off. (Govt can't use Bord Gais name any more because Centrica own the brand)


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    #160
    papu
    Registered Users Posts: 3,357 ✭✭✭papu


    Rucking_Fetard wrote: »
    Was their ever anymore about these meters making the water unsafe?

    Yes , load of boll*x


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    #161
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    I bet people were saying when Bord Gais was launched that it would never be sold off... just like they are saying about Irish Water now. Why didn't they call it Bord ... whatever? Maybe because it would cause problems down the line if they try and sell it off. (Govt can't use Bord Gais name any more because Centrica own the brand)
    I don't know about anyone else, but the quality of service and value I've gotten in telecoms & energy has improved massively since the state monopolies were dismantled and sold off. Telecoms, OK, took a little while to get off the ground because our regulator was a sh1tebag and left eircom with a monopoly, but that's a lesson learned on how not to do it.

    I don't see a particular issue with IW being sold off further down the line so long as part of that sell off includes the ability (like with electricity) for other operators to enter the market on a fair footing, with a ring-fenced (or state-owned) infrastructure body like ESB Networks.


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    #162
    Electric Boobs
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 179 ✭✭Electric Boobs


    steveone wrote: »
    Is anyone else completely stumped with this water thing? I really don't know what to do. Its like i want to pay it just for peace and quiet but i am sickened to the pit of my gut by the whole setup- i know its rotten to the core. Bills for the sake of it and jackboot P.R. Pay 'x' amount or pay '2x' just because...all to pay banks / bondholders or whatever.(if its not given to them directly its filling a gap left by monies given). I really am thinking of taking my chances with the dribbling tap, no washing machine, back to washing at the sink with a kettle of water. Madness it is.
    From the title, I got the impression that "more" meant a new scandal/issue with the company.

    I'm glad I live in the countryside. I that means expenses for the well, but at least I know what I'm getting and am in control... and that gives peace of mind.


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    #163
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,844 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Ogham wrote: »
    ???
    Bord Gais Energy - sold off http://www.moneyguideireland.com/centrica-now-own-bord-gais-energy.html

    Retail arm. Infrastructure retained by the state.
    Ogham wrote: »
    Eircom - Sold Off

    Widely accepted to be a mistake almost instantly. 15 years ago. Hasn't happened since.
    Ogham wrote: »
    Lotto - Sold Off

    Nope, An Post's licence expired and the new licence was, as the previous one had been, given to the highest bidder. An Post remained part of the consortium. When that licence expires it'll be put up for bid again.
    Ogham wrote: »
    ESB - 4 power stations sold off so far http://www.moneyguideireland.com/more-news-on-sell-off-of-state-assets.html

    EU requirement to open the energy market for competition reasons, not the states own decision to make.

    Ogham wrote: »
    Maybe because it would cause problems down the line if they try and sell it off. (Govt can't use Bord Gais name any more because Centrica own the brand)

    That takes the biscuit for ridiculous reasoning.

    The chances of Irish Water being sold off are so small as to be non-existent except in the minds of our fevered, useless media and a few conspiracy theorists. Unfortunately, people actually seem to think the Independent/Mail/etc actually report news and facts.


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    #164
    S.O
    Closed Accounts Posts: 397 ✭✭S.O


    Banjo String wrote: »
    As with everything else in life, be wary of the small print.

    The application forms for your (not great, when you consider we've around the highest water charges in europe) 'free' allowance, is actually a contract, in which you agree to becoming a customer of Irish Waters, and give them permission to start charging you for a utility you're already paying for through income tax, vat etc.



    So why aren't Irish Water calling the 'application pack' a contract, if that's what it actually Is, what are they worried about :confused:





    What happens if you refuse to engage with them, if you refuse to sign a contract, what powers have they to charge you, and if your unmetered, how will they reduce your pressure?

    I don't no how a company you're not a customer of can demand payment from you for their services you never requested.

    First things first I am totally 100% against water charges, at the moment Im just looking at the way the wind is currently blowing by that I mean even though the forms are due to be sent out soon I still don,t see any nationwide anti water charge public meetings being held or any big national anti water charges protests, due to the lack of both at this present time I am considering should I borrow money to get a good rainwater harvesting system to reduce future water bills and pay any loan back over a number of years.

    But I have some questions about this whole no contract thing.

    Question about that writing (no contract) on the form, if for example irish water brought someone to court over non payment of water charges, couldn,t irish water argue in court he/she wrote no contract on the form and say irish water has no contract with householder then irish water might argue on the companies behalf in court that they have no obligation to supply water to householder cause there is no contract between irish water and householder, and lets say they can,t disconnect a householder, if they have the restrict water option to a house, wouldn,t writing no contract on the form, make it easier for irish water to seek a court order to restrict a water supply, if irish water argued there is no contract in place and we are receiving no payments we have to restrict the householders water supply.


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    #165
    rohoso
    Registered Users Posts: 9 ✭rohoso


    Why didn't they put 1% on PAYE - ringfence the money for water infrastructure repair and get on with it. Oh no we need another semi-state quango loaded with mandarins on 75 - 100k with over 50 of them on 120k +. We got a new logo though!!


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    #166
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,844 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    rohoso wrote: »
    Why didn't they put 1% on PAYE - ringfence the money for water infrastructure repair and get on with it. Oh no we need another semi-state quango loaded with mandarins on 75 - 100k with over 50 of them on 120k +. We got a new logo though!!

    Two reasons

    1 (and most critically): The previous FF/Green government agreed bindingly to this specific structure with the ECB etc
    2: This should after some redundancies - much easier to do in a semi-state - get rid of a lot of duplication in management between the >30 authorities we previously had supervising water. No guarantee it will, we were told the same about the HSE, but it'll be much easier to wield the knife here than councils.


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    #167
    Zubeneschamali
    Registered Users Posts: 16,686 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    rohoso wrote: »
    Why didn't they put 1% on PAYE

    Because PAYE voters vote for Fine Gael, so FG promised no income tax hikes. Meanwhile, the half of the population that pays no income tax (either because they are on social welfare or low wages or both) do not vote FG.

    A property tax and water charges fall on the whole population. A PAYE rise affects FG supporters disproportionately. So, there you go.


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    #168
    Banjo String
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,380 ✭✭✭✭Banjo String


    Zubeneschamali wrote: »
    Because PAYE voters vote for Fine Gael, so FG promised no income tax hikes. Meanwhile, the half of the population that pays no income tax (either because they are on social welfare or low wages or both) do not vote FG.

    A property tax and water charges fall on the whole population. A PAYE rise affects FG supporters disproportionately. So, there you go.

    What a stuck up your own hole, condescending post tbh.


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    #169
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Banjo String wrote: »
    What a stuck up your own hole, condescending post tbh.
    It's the truth though. FF & FG voters will be proportionately greater income taxpayers than Labour or Sinn Fein's voters.

    The current government promised no income tax increases and it's so fundamental that going back on it would result in the collapse of the government and their annihilation at the next election.

    Meanwhile, there's still a big hole in the public finances and water is perfectly set up for a "user pays" model, so why not go ahead and do that? This means that FG's voter base is largely "happy" because they haven't raised income tax.


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    #170
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,844 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    seamus wrote: »
    It's the truth though. FF & FG voters will be proportionately greater income taxpayers than Labour or Sinn Fein's voters.

    You're falling in to the trap of assuming that Labour are actually voted for by the working class that both the media and unions assume they are. They aren't. Mainly middle class, higher rate tax payers. Just look at where they actually have TDs and on a more micro level, councillors (go before 2014 if you want, but its even more pronounced now).

    Ditto the idea that its a public service party - those were mostly FF votes all through the good days.

    More important than all of that is that our existing marginal rate is hideously high when USC and PRSI are added to it and is a major deterrent to work - overtime in particular. Another percent just heaps on there.


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    #171
    steveone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 740 ✭✭✭steveone


    Still none the wiser. Pay up- head down, wait for god.


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    #172
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,428 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    steveone wrote: »
    Still none the wiser. Pay up- head down, wait for god.

    There is no god :D


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    #173
    Cantona's Collars
    Registered Users Posts: 33,709 ✭✭✭✭Cantona's Collars


    Wasn't the USC supposed to help with stuff like this?


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    #174
    kissmequick
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,065 ✭✭✭kissmequick


    This cool dude won't be payin' no fuppin' Water Charges.


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    #175
    Phoebas
    Registered Users Posts: 9,370 ✭✭✭Phoebas


    kissmequick wrote: »
    This cool dude won't be payin' no fuppin' Water Charges.

    Up next. Alan Lawes shows us how to walk past the checkout at Tesco with a trolley full of groceries. Its all perfectly ok because he doesn't 'consent' to paying his grocery bill.


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    #176
    Ghost Buster
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,172 ✭✭✭Ghost Buster


    Phoebas wrote: »
    Up next. Alan Lawes shows us how to walk past the checkout at Tesco with a trolley full of groceries. Its all perfectly ok because he doesn't 'consent' to paying his grocery bill.

    So. He removed his wader meder in solidaridee wid de poor people. Grand job


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    #177
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,428 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    Ghost Buster wrote: »
    So. He removed his wader meder in solidaridee wid de poor people. Grand job

    It's not his water meter to remove, hopefully will be seeing the muppet arrested and jailed for this. Nice of him to.provide the evidence for the prosecution to.


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    #178
    Thespoofer
    Registered Users Posts: 1,053 ✭✭✭Thespoofer


    kissmequick wrote: »
    This cool dude won't be payin' no fuppin' Water Charges.

    Legend ! ( And his friend Dermot also )


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    #179
    papu
    Registered Users Posts: 3,357 ✭✭✭papu


    kissmequick wrote: »
    This cool dude won't be payin' no fuppin' Water Charges.

    Why doesn't he do the same with his ESB and gas meter? Why does he think he's entitled to free water when everyone around him starts paying?


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    #180
    Pro Hoc Vice
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,087 ✭✭✭Pro Hoc Vice


    papu wrote: »
    Why doesn't he do the same with his ESB and gas meter? Why does he think he's entitled to free water when everyone around him starts paying?

    Because he is special.


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    #181
    peking97
    Registered Users Posts: 856 ✭✭✭peking97


    papu wrote: »
    Why doesn't he do the same with his ESB and gas meter? Why does he think he's entitled to free water when everyone around him starts paying?
    Not free water. Water that has already been paid for.


This discussion has been closed.
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