more irish water nonsense

db wrote: »

None of the staff moving over from local authorities will be let go until after they retire or decide to leave themselves. After that their pensions will have to be paid for so I struggle to see where any huge savings will be made. If this was a number of private companies merging there would be staff reductions and this would generate savings. Do you really think you will be paying less in future for water than you are now through your general taxes? Remember that there are no plans to reduce general tax to compensate for water charges. According to Simon Coveney it currently costs €1.5bn to run the water system. It will be interesting to see what the cost will be in 5 years time.

There are plans for a voluntary redundancy scheme and they do have quite an old workforce, do while it'll take some time (and it'll be expensive), the scope for savings is clear.

I hope that the cost of running the system increases in the medium term. Currently we are under investing.

Phoebas wrote: »

There are plans for a voluntary redundancy scheme and they do have quite an old workforce, do while it'll take some time (and it'll be expensive), the scope for savings is clear.

I hope that the cost of running the system increases in the medium term. Currently we are under investing.

Any investment made should pay for itself, otherwise it's not an investment it's waste. Unfortunately this is a concept the public service in this country do not understand.

MYOB wrote: »

Not a chance. Standard scare story being perpetrated and nothing else.

UK is one of the only places that's done that and they've sold everything that's not nailed down. We haven't.

???
Bord Gais Energy - sold off http://www.moneyguideireland.com/centrica-now-own-bord-gais-energy.html
Eircom - Sold Off
Lotto - Sold Off
ESB - 4 power stations sold off so far http://www.moneyguideireland.com/more-news-on-sell-off-of-state-assets.html

I bet people were saying when Bord Gais was launched that it would never be sold off... just like they are saying about Irish Water now. Why didn't they call it Bord ... whatever? Maybe because it would cause problems down the line if they try and sell it off. (Govt can't use Bord Gais name any more because Centrica own the brand)

I bet people were saying when Bord Gais was launched that it would never be sold off... just like they are saying about Irish Water now. Why didn't they call it Bord ... whatever? Maybe because it would cause problems down the line if they try and sell it off. (Govt can't use Bord Gais name any more because Centrica own the brand)

I don't know about anyone else, but the quality of service and value I've gotten in telecoms & energy has improved massively since the state monopolies were dismantled and sold off. Telecoms, OK, took a little while to get off the ground because our regulator was a sh1tebag and left eircom with a monopoly, but that's a lesson learned on how not to do it.

I don't see a particular issue with IW being sold off further down the line so long as part of that sell off includes the ability (like with electricity) for other operators to enter the market on a fair footing, with a ring-fenced (or state-owned) infrastructure body like ESB Networks.

Ogham wrote: »

???
Bord Gais Energy - sold off http://www.moneyguideireland.com/centrica-now-own-bord-gais-energy.html

Retail arm. Infrastructure retained by the state.

Ogham wrote: »

Eircom - Sold Off

Widely accepted to be a mistake almost instantly. 15 years ago. Hasn't happened since.

Ogham wrote: »

Lotto - Sold Off

Nope, An Post's licence expired and the new licence was, as the previous one had been, given to the highest bidder. An Post remained part of the consortium. When that licence expires it'll be put up for bid again.

Ogham wrote: »

ESB - 4 power stations sold off so far http://www.moneyguideireland.com/more-news-on-sell-off-of-state-assets.html

EU requirement to open the energy market for competition reasons, not the states own decision to make.

Ogham wrote: »

Maybe because it would cause problems down the line if they try and sell it off. (Govt can't use Bord Gais name any more because Centrica own the brand)

That takes the biscuit for ridiculous reasoning.

The chances of Irish Water being sold off are so small as to be non-existent except in the minds of our fevered, useless media and a few conspiracy theorists. Unfortunately, people actually seem to think the Independent/Mail/etc actually report news and facts.

rohoso wrote: »

Why didn't they put 1% on PAYE

Because PAYE voters vote for Fine Gael, so FG promised no income tax hikes. Meanwhile, the half of the population that pays no income tax (either because they are on social welfare or low wages or both) do not vote FG.

A property tax and water charges fall on the whole population. A PAYE rise affects FG supporters disproportionately. So, there you go.

Banjo String wrote: »

What a stuck up your own hole, condescending post tbh.

It's the truth though. FF & FG voters will be proportionately greater income taxpayers than Labour or Sinn Fein's voters.

The current government promised no income tax increases and it's so fundamental that going back on it would result in the collapse of the government and their annihilation at the next election.

Meanwhile, there's still a big hole in the public finances and water is perfectly set up for a "user pays" model, so why not go ahead and do that? This means that FG's voter base is largely "happy" because they haven't raised income tax.

Wasn't the USC supposed to help with stuff like this?

kissmequick wrote: »

This cool dude won't be payin' no fuppin' Water Charges.

Up next. Alan Lawes shows us how to walk past the checkout at Tesco with a trolley full of groceries. Its all perfectly ok because he doesn't 'consent' to paying his grocery bill.

Ghost Buster wrote: »

So. He removed his wader meder in solidaridee wid de poor people. Grand job

It's not his water meter to remove, hopefully will be seeing the muppet arrested and jailed for this. Nice of him to.provide the evidence for the prosecution to.

kissmequick wrote: »

This cool dude won't be payin' no fuppin' Water Charges.

Why doesn't he do the same with his ESB and gas meter? Why does he think he's entitled to free water when everyone around him starts paying?

UCDVet wrote: »

I live in an apartment - anyone want to buy some discount water from me?

How much for a bath?

Daith wrote: »

You are comparing a year contract like insurance with a utility charge. Meaningless comparison.



Yes the standing charge but Irish Water will charge me THE FULL AMOUNT! Would you have an issue if ESB or Bord Gais charged you for using their services when you didn't?

Maybe you should look up what a standing charge is before you make yourself more ridiculous. With gas and electricity you don't pay their usage while away but you will still be paying something.

The same well apply to water, you will be paying for the service of water being supplied to your property while you are their or not. Unless you think they rip up the waste and water pipes while you're not there

Head The Wall wrote: »

Maybe you should look up what a standing charge is before you make yourself more ridiculous. With gas and electricity you don't pay their usage while away but you will still be paying something.

The same well apply to water, you will be paying for the service of water being supplied to your property while you are their or not. Unless you think they rip up the waste and water pipes while you're not there

That's what I said? I'll be paying a standing charge but not for electricity that I won't be using. Jesus.

With Irish Water they will still charge me for an assessed amount of water that they think I'll use despite not using it.

Rucking_Fetard wrote: »

No it wouldn't. If what they did to introduce charges didnt create a peep, a hike surely wont.

The response would be get onto Joe, "Woe is me"!!

I have just received "Your Irish Water application pack." A cause for celebration no doubt! However, a few (disjointed) Joe Public thoughts occur to me:

1. Domestic water supplies in Ireland pre-Irish Water cost around €1.2bn a year from general taxation. Now everyone who uses mains water, even if it is a health hazard, must pay a fee for the privilege. So what happens to the €1.2bn from general taxation? If it is not reduced then this amounts to double taxation that is illegal in EU law.

2. I live in a rural area, in a house that was built in 1970. There is no identifiable water supply to my house, but I suspect that it is probably a supply that serves at least three houses that were all built at the same time. My supply (such as it is) cannot be metered and cannot, therefore, be reduced to a trickle if I don't pay. Irish Water cannot install their meters in my direct supply because it appears to run through my back garden, and I will not allow them onto my property.

3. Equally, if I live in an apartment block with a communal water supply, my service is not individually metered and so cannot be restricted. So why should I pay Irish Water?

4. If I don't agree to pay this double charge then what? If enough people refuse to pay, as they did in 1995. Can we look forward to the recovery of the charges being handed over to the Revenue Commissioners and deducted from wages and welfare upon the basis of a deemed water consumption per adult or child (with, of course, a generous allowance for every child that has the temerity to consume water)? As the government rightly says, if you don't pay then someone else must, because we need to finance our outlandish waste of taxpayer's money. The fact that you will receive little for it other than ensuring the future of your political representatives is irrelevant (Hogan to the EC as agricultural commissioner).

5. A significant proportion of the population has undrinkable water, and some have been without it for up to four years. Irish Water will, of course, correct that eventually when their bean counters and consultants can justify doing so, but in the meantime those people must pay at least half of what they would have been charged for potable water -- water fit for flushing the loo but no use for anything else. Then they must pay Irish Water to take it away again.

6. Anyone who has bothered to look into the financial projections of Irish Water must know that the original average charge proposed by Enda Kenny could only be a nonsense. The charge has to be on average €1,000 a year for Irish Water to break even, never mind paying the government the €500m a year that it expects to take.

So now let's move on to the other government initiatives:

7. The household rates were abolished by Fine Fail, and motor taxes were to provide at least some of the income for local authorities, the rest from taxpayers funds. Still, the motor taxes are provided to the authorities, but now a property tax has been implemented and the government subvention will be reduced accordingly. Since the government subvention comes from the taxes people pay, that is double taxation unless the subvention results in an appropriate reduction elsewhere. At the moment I pay €710 a year to tax my car, and now I have to pay €350 a year in property tax -- and I no longer receive at least drinkable mains water from my local authority even if it seemed to have come from the local sewage plant that hasn't worked properly in the last twenty years. Oh, and I live on a road that the army would be reluctant to test their tanks on in case of damage.

8. Now let's add into this equation the Universal Social Charge. What in hell is that for? Anyone know? Is it even distantly possible that it is income tax by another cobbled together name?

So now back to basics. Where does the government receive its running costs from? Well, of course from multinationals domiciled in Ireland, employing two people and paying almost no national taxes on turnovers of billions. From national entrepreneurs who have taken the risk and mortgaged their houses to the public-owned banks? The former cannot be targeted for funds, but as we have seen, the latter certainly can be.

The milch cow for governments is, of course, the general population that works, makes something, and pays to the government a substantial proportion of ts income for the privilege of doing so. So what does that majority get for its money? Lies, subterfuge, political party loyalties, and the draining of the people's economy to pay reckless gamblers in foreign countries who cannot be permitted to lose in order to protect a financiaL union that was doomed from the start.

This is, sadly, the inheritance of a succession of Irish cobbled-together coalitions that no-one voted for, dominated by life time politicians who are more concerned with the needs of the party than those of the people. This is evidenced by the latest move to send a disastrously failed minister to the EC as agricultural commissioner where he can cause chaos in the whole European industry, but it will get him out of the news for a while and give the party breathing space in which to come up with the next PR release and the next give and take in preparation for the next general election.

Out there, sadly, is a nation of suckers who will fall for it yet again.