CADETSHIPS 2012

KickstartHeart · 06-03-2012 3:12pm #1

Just said I'd start a thread that people can post on if they get/hear any info on cadetships in 2012. Numbers. Dates etc.

eyescreamcone · 06-03-2012 3:33pm

Do the Irish army accept cadets with laser eye surgery?
I know that Cork Fire Brigade recently advertised and will allow laser surgery if its stable for 2 years.

If the Irish army don't accept the laser surgery, then why not??

KickstartHeart · 06-03-2012 3:35pm

eyescreamcone wrote: »

Do the Irish army accept cadets with laser eye surgery?
I know that Cork Fire Brigade recently advertised and will allow laser surgery if its stable for 2 years.

If the Irish army don't accept the laser surgery, then why not??

No,
Because it doesn't always stay corrected. If you talk to any optician (or who ever they are that do it) there's a chance it won't work, or won't work permanently.

It wasn't me! · 06-03-2012 4:04pm

That's not quite true. Because of the nature of the surgery, in that it re-profiles the cornea and changes the shape, it can't revert. Now, your eyes will degrade naturally over time, and that won't change, but the surgery can't reverse itself. In any case, the policy's been under review for a long time and it's expected to change, so wait and see any published guidelines for this year. The surgery won't always achieve standard 6/6 vision, but that's an issue of people's expectations.

Gooleybag · 06-03-2012 9:54pm

eyescreamcone wrote: »

Do the Irish army accept cadets with laser eye surgery?
I know that Cork Fire Brigade recently advertised and will allow laser surgery if its stable for 2 years.

If the Irish army don't accept the laser surgery, then why not??

Simple answer no. But in reality so long as you don't tell anyone at the medical stage you should be grand.

DipStick McSwindler · 14-03-2012 11:15pm

This post has been deleted.

Tybalt · 15-03-2012 12:29am

Is anyone else hoping to go for a cadetship(if a competition is run) this year for their first time? And does anyone know if many have been accepted in recent years on their first try?

Local-womanizer · 15-03-2012 1:22am

Tybalt wrote: »

Is anyone else hoping to go for a cadetship(if a competition is run) this year for their first time? And does anyone know if many have been accepted in recent years on their first try?

don't intend going for it but I have had 2 mates accepted first time.

_pure_mule_ · 18-03-2012 5:41pm

Tybalt wrote: »

Is anyone else hoping to go for a cadetship(if a competition is run) this year for their first time? And does anyone know if many have been accepted in recent years on their first try?

Yep, im just finishing my leaving cert this year and will be applying whenever the competition commences:) does anyone know what they are like in regards to accepting 18/19 year olds? Are they reluctant to do so even if they have very good cvs and seem suitable for a cadetship or will my age play against me?

Turbine · 18-03-2012 5:56pm

_pure_mule_ wrote: »

Yep, im just finishing my leaving cert this year and will be applying whenever the competition commences:) does anyone know what they are like in regards to accepting 18/19 year olds? Are they reluctant to do so even if they have very good cvs and seem suitable for a cadetship or will my age play against me?

It won't be your age going against you so much as the fact that you're only just out of school. You'll be going up against people with degrees, some of which are already in the Army Reserve. So you're gonna wanna really stand out.

discus · 18-03-2012 6:40pm

Turbine wrote: »

It won't be your age going against you so much as the fact that you're only just out of school. You'll be going up against people with degrees, some of which are already in the Army Reserve. So you're gonna wanna really stand out.

Although it sounds like it's true, a true leader will stand out regardless of his age or degree.

Turbine · 18-03-2012 6:46pm

discus wrote: »

Although it sounds like it's true, a true leader will stand out regardless of his age or degree.

True, but you also get points added to your application for having a degree or for being in the RDF. So it makes a difference.

_pure_mule_ · 18-03-2012 11:05pm

Thanks for the quick replys lads! Ive a fairly good cv that I think will stand out(school prefect/qualified lifeguard/bronze and silver gaisce medal/ qualified swimming instructor) so hopefully I'll have a fair chance! Just a bit worried about being so young!

CIGANO · 18-03-2012 11:17pm

_pure_mule_ wrote: »

Thanks for the quick replys lads! Ive a fairly good cv that I think will stand out(school prefect/qualified lifeguard/bronze and silver gaisce medal/ qualified swimming instructor) so hopefully I'll have a fair chance! Just a bit worried about being so young!

Your cv isn't great and its not your fault (I am the same age as you so I know that its very hard to have as much things on it that someone in their late 20's would have). But you should know that you are competing with Rdf nco's, uni grads (engineering especially would be looked for so if you are doing that in uni now,great job) and even inter county players which the army love getting a hold off. My advice to you is try and get into the rdf this will help you a lot also even if you dont get through you will atleast know what will be expected of you in future competitions (some officers have tried 4+ time before they got accepted). Also if you are willing to take a step down so to speak and go in through general enlistment then your age would in some cases be seen as an advantage as opposed to cadets where your lack of life experience would be seen as a disadvantage.

discus · 19-03-2012 8:57am

I've met guys out of sandhurst who are not even 21 yet, so they certainly didn't have degrees or whatnot.

I wouldn't say his CV is bad either. Seems fairly well rounded. If I take it at face value, then it is better than the CV of aquaintances of mine who had far less than that, yet still got cadetships!

_pure_mule_ · 19-03-2012 12:45pm

CIGANO wrote: »

_pure_mule_ wrote: »

Thanks for the quick replys lads! Ive a fairly good cv that I think will stand out(school prefect/qualified lifeguard/bronze and silver gaisce medal/ qualified swimming instructor) so hopefully I'll have a fair chance! Just a bit worried about being so young!

Your cv isn't great and its not your fault (I am the same age as you so I know that its very hard to have as much things on it that someone in their late 20's would have). But you should know that you are competing with Rdf nco's, uni grads (engineering especially would be looked for so if you are doing that in uni now,great job) and even inter county players which the army love getting a hold off. My advice to you is try and get into the rdf this will help you a lot also even if you dont get through you will atleast know what will be expected of you in future competitions (some officers have tried 4+ time before they got accepted). Also if you are willing to take a step down so to speak and go in through general enlistment then your age would in some cases be seen as an advantage as opposed to cadets where your lack of life experience would be seen as a disadvantage.

. Thanks for your opinion about my cv but I believe it is pretty good and I think it demonstrates leadership and responsibility in my character which any interview board for a cadetship would be looking for. There are not many people in their late 20's who have been awarded medals from the president, nor are there many who are qualified lifesavers and swimming instructors. But yes I will try to get into the rdf to gain some experience and further strengthen my cv. Thanks for the reply.

KickstartHeart · 20-03-2012 2:13pm

_pure_mule_ wrote: »

. Thanks for your opinion about my cv but I believe it is pretty good and I think it demonstrates leadership and responsibility in my character which any interview board for a cadetship would be looking for. There are not many people in their late 20's who have been awarded medals from the president, nor are there many who are qualified lifesavers and swimming instructors. But yes I will try to get into the rdf to gain some experience and further strengthen my cv. Thanks for the reply.

Quik tip; Your CV means jack. Its an interview. It would be very easy to have a terrible CV and make yourself look like a better potential leader of soldiers in an interview than someone with medals for civillian volunteering and having been a qualified swim instructor. Its an interview, not a CV comparison. Prepare for interview. Because that is what it is. Do not in anyway prepare to fall back on how good your CV is because thats not the way it works.

BigDuffman · 20-03-2012 2:27pm

Pure mule. I'm not belittling your achievements, but at the interviews last year I was blown away by the calibre of the applicants, which was very high.

When everyone else you are up against is also:

An Hons Degree holder
Captain of "X"
Serving RDF NCO
Examples of community involvement and leadership experience

These impressive skills become the norm and it becomes a very even playing field with hardly any differentiation between candidates bar their performance on the day.

KickstartHeart · 20-03-2012 3:49pm

Just for information, the DF have put up a post on military.ie today explaining that they are just waiting for sanction from the department of defence to begin the competitions.

DipStick McSwindler · 20-03-2012 4:18pm

This post has been deleted.

KickstartHeart · 20-03-2012 4:28pm

feeney92 wrote: »

Your Cv is just a tool to get you to the interview, after that its up to you!

Exactly

_pure_mule_ · 20-03-2012 6:30pm

Thanks for all the advice, to be honest I thought the cv would have more to do with it than it actually does so thanks for setting me straight there. I guess it's just how I sell myself on the day! Thanks for all the replies anyway lads!

TheBigLt · 20-03-2012 7:07pm

I applied last year straight out of school, got into the top 300 out of the 2000 or whatever applied. Did the physical was in the top 3 in my group of just over 80. Did the group exercise was pretty pleased with both my own plan and my teamwork with others in my group. The morning we were leaving the Curragh an army officer said if you're straight out of school do the interview in Irish, 1 out of the 6 or so of us school leavers said they would do the interview in Irish the rest of us weren't called back. My point is they won't send you forward to interview unless you have a degree, reserve or other military experience or a relative currently serving as an officer. Or if you show some extraordinary ability but it's hard for that to shine in the application process.

_pure_mule_ · 20-03-2012 7:42pm

TheBigLt wrote: »

I applied last year straight out of school, got into the top 300 out of the 2000 or whatever applied. Did the physical was in the top 3 in my group of just over 80. Did the group exercise was pretty pleased with both my own plan and my teamwork with others in my group. The morning we were leaving the Curragh an army officer said if you're straight out of school do the interview in Irish, 1 out of the 6 or so of us school leavers said they would do the interview in Irish the rest of us weren't called back. My point is they won't send you forward to interview unless you have a degree, reserve or other military experience or a relative currently serving as an officer. Or if you show some extraordinary ability but it's hard for that to shine in the application process.

Im nearly fluent in Irish so I might chance that:p FairPlay though on getting that far! Will you be trying this year?

wildfowler94 · 20-03-2012 10:45pm

TheBigLt wrote: »

I applied last year straight out of school, got into the top 300 out of the 2000 or whatever applied. Did the physical was in the top 3 in my group of just over 80. Did the group exercise was pretty pleased with both my own plan and my teamwork with others in my group. The morning we were leaving the Curragh an army officer said if you're straight out of school do the interview in Irish, 1 out of the 6 or so of us school leavers said they would do the interview in Irish the rest of us weren't called back. My point is they won't send you forward to interview unless you have a degree, reserve or other military experience or a relative currently serving as an officer. Or if you show some extraordinary ability but it's hard for that to shine in the application process.

I can confirm that there was 2 school leavers on my interview day me being one of them :rolleyes: one is now a cadet. we did the Irish interview too very similar to an oral but you must be quick and no stuttering.

KickstartHeart · 21-03-2012 1:12am

TheBigLt wrote: »

I applied last year straight out of school, got into the top 300 out of the 2000 or whatever applied. Did the physical was in the top 3 in my group of just over 80. Did the group exercise was pretty pleased with both my own plan and my teamwork with others in my group. The morning we were leaving the Curragh an army officer said if you're straight out of school do the interview in Irish, 1 out of the 6 or so of us school leavers said they would do the interview in Irish the rest of us weren't called back. My point is they won't send you forward to interview unless you have a degree, reserve or other military experience or a relative currently serving as an officer. Or if you show some extraordinary ability but it's hard for that to shine in the application process.

That's not true. They don't pick who goes through to interview on credentials. You failed to go through to interview because you didn't score high enough in the group stage. Fitness test is pass/fail. You don't get points for doing better than others. The language you chose to do your interview in, whether your'e a reservist or not, or if you have a degree, all have literally 0% effect on whether you get an interview or not. They certainly effect how you will do in the interview because bonuses are awarded for Irish interview, having a degree, or being a reservist though. But at the stage in the competition that you got to, they mean nothing. Sorry to burst your bubble (and I dont mean that in a slagging/derogatory way at all), but you didn't get through because there were 100 people that did better than you in the group test.

TheBigLt · 21-03-2012 10:32am

_pure_mule_ wrote: »

Im nearly fluent in Irish so I might chance that:p FairPlay though on getting that far! Will you be trying this year?

I'm not really sure to be honest, plagued with injury at the moment haven't been able to train for the last 4 months. But I might apply to show them i'm still interested. Even if you don't get in or even past the first or second stage it's a great experience. My advice find an officer who would be higher rank than lieutenant, who has experience with interviewing or the cadet process and get as much information as you can. Physical is easy until the run, your run time contrary to what people may think is taken into account at interview stage, well so two commandants and a captain told me. Good luck and never give up!

TheBigLt · 21-03-2012 10:44am

KickstartHeart wrote: »

That's not true. They don't pick who goes through to interview on credentials. You failed to go through to interview because you didn't score high enough in the group stage. Fitness test is pass/fail. You don't get points for doing better than others. The language you chose to do your interview in, whether your'e a reservist or not, or if you have a degree, all have literally 0% effect on whether you get an interview or not. They certainly effect how you will do in the interview because bonuses are awarded for Irish interview, having a degree, or being a reservist though. But at the stage in the competition that you got to, they mean nothing. Sorry to burst your bubble (and I dont mean that in a slagging/derogatory way at all), but you didn't get through because there were 100 people that did better than you in the group test.

Oh I'm not too worried at all, my first time out, young and willing to try something great. I know what you're saying and I do agree with it mostly. It's a serious competition, more doctors qualify each year than cadets. It's dog eat dog. The only point I'm trying to make is, the army have in recent years picked more college graduates than school leavers, one reason is probably so they don't have to pay to put them through college. For me, I can't join the reserves because since I turned 17 none of the reserve units in my local or greater area have taken anyone in. It's quite frustrating to be honest. So now I'm in college doing my level 8 hopefully to graduate and by then be a reservist and go back and blow them out of the water. (Well hope they will be a little more impressed anyway)

paky · 21-03-2012 4:31pm

awarding extra points for irish is kind of retarded. how the hell does having irish make somebody a better soldier?

Tybalt · 21-03-2012 5:46pm

paky wrote: »

awarding extra points for irish is kind of retarded. how the hell does having irish make somebody a better soldier?

I think it's something to do with the Irish language in the pubic sector, I've read something about it in another thread. And it is not "r******d".

KickstartHeart · 21-03-2012 5:49pm

TheBigLt wrote: »

Oh I'm not too worried at all, my first time out, young and willing to try something great. I know what you're saying and I do agree with it mostly. It's a serious competition, more doctors qualify each year than cadets. It's dog eat dog. The only point I'm trying to make is, the army have in recent years picked more college graduates than school leavers, one reason is probably so they don't have to pay to put them through college. For me, I can't join the reserves because since I turned 17 none of the reserve units in my local or greater area have taken anyone in. It's quite frustrating to be honest. So now I'm in college doing my level 8 hopefully to graduate and by then be a reservist and go back and blow them out of the water. (Well hope they will be a little more impressed anyway)

Yeah they do look for those kinds of peope more, but not at the stage that you got to.

The run times are taken into account but have no effect on your performance. Its pass/fail. I presume they're taken account of so when it boils down to it at the end, if two people had a similar score in the competition over all, it might matter. But generally, it doesn't matter.

KickstartHeart · 21-03-2012 5:58pm

I must say giving someone a higher chance of getting a place as a leader in an operational military simply because they can speak a language that will never, ever, be used on operations, seams to me to be, illogical, unfair, and counter productive in picking the best candidates for a cadet class.

But I'm in no position to say that it IS unfair etc. There's more than likely decent logic behind it.

I suppose its important to take into account that anyone who makes it to the last 100 of a cadetship competition is definitely capable of completing a cadetship and becomming an army officer. So they're not exactly losing out on good blood by giving those who speak Irish an advantage. They're still getting the kind of candidate that they're looking for.

Interesting debate that is :P

paky · 21-03-2012 7:22pm

i think its discriminatory at the least.

Tybalt · 21-03-2012 7:29pm

If you were to do the Irish language interview and fail, do you fail the competition or do you continue if good enough and just not get the 6% on your final mark after the main interview?

Tybalt · 21-03-2012 7:46pm

paky wrote: »

i think its discriminatory at the least.

I wouldn't see it as discriminatory since it is the national and first language of the state, and is taught in schools from an early age. But I do see how there may not be a direct link from showing proficiency in speaking Irish to being a good officer and how it will probably be of little or no use on operations.
I'd see the bonus marks as being something for the candidates finishing up in school who lack PDF/RDF experience, maturity/life experience or a degree, and most of those candidates finishing school would have been doing Irish interviews anyway for their leaving certificate.
I'd like to try do the Irish interview if I was to make it that far in the competition as I am not finished college yet, but I am not near fluent. :pac:

KickstartHeart · 21-03-2012 8:59pm

Tybalt wrote: »

If you were to do the Irish language interview and fail, do you fail the competition or do you continue if good enough and just not get the 6% on your final mark after the main interview?

The interview is pass/fail, but if you pass, that doesn't mean you'l go through to medicals. They just take the top number (depends on how many places on offer) of the people that passed to go through to medicals.

That's why it annoys me when people say they did an interview, didn't get through to the next stage, and that they're p***ed off because they seam to take it that they Army says they're not good enough.
That's not the case. If they passed the interview they are good enough. But obviously the Army will only take the top highest scorers.

I passed an interview before but wasn't in the top number to be taken to medicals. I don't hold a grudge. If you go for it and they don't take you, don't hold one either, because its not because your'e not good enough, its because there were a few people that just managed to show that they had the tiniest bit more potential to become an army officer than yourself. Thats the way I see it anyway

So to answer your question, if you don't get past the interview, your'e out. So there's no way of carrying on to the next stage without being in the top scorers on the interview. So because you don't go through to the next stage, your bonus from doing the Irish interview doesn't carry on either (obviously because your'e out

). The bonuses they offer are for your interview score, not your over all competition score.

Hope that helps bud!

Tybalt · 21-03-2012 9:23pm

KickstartHeart wrote: »

The interview is pass/fail, but if you pass, that doesn't mean you'l go through to medicals. They just take the top number (depends on how many places on offer) of the people that passed to go through to medicals.

That's why it annoys me when people say they did an interview, didn't get through to the next stage, and that they're p***ed off because they seam to take it that they Army says they're not good enough.
That's not the case. If they passed the interview they are good enough. But obviously the Army will only take the top highest scorers.

I passed an interview before but wasn't in the top number to be taken to medicals. I don't hold a grudge. If you go for it and they don't take you, don't hold one either, because its not because your'e not good enough, its because there were a few people that just managed to show that they had the tiniest bit more potential to become an army officer than yourself. Thats the way I see it anyway

So to answer your question, if you don't get past the interview, your'e out. So there's no way of carrying on to the next stage without being in the top scorers on the interview. So because you don't go through to the next stage, your bonus from doing the Irish interview doesn't carry on either (obviously because your'e out ). The bonuses they offer are for your interview score, not your over all competition score.

Hope that helps bud!

Thanks, I was more wondering if not showing enough proficiency in Irish if you choose to do an Irish interview would eliminate you from progressing in the competition. I thought the Irish interview was an additional interview to the main one. eg. The main interview would be the same for all candidates, then anyone who wanted to try get the 6% bonus would do an extra interview in Irish, much like the Leaving Certificate oral exam for Irish.

Turbine · 21-03-2012 9:47pm

KickstartHeart wrote: »

I must say giving someone a higher chance of getting a place as a leader in an operational military simply because they can speak a language that will never, ever, be used on operations, seams to me to be, illogical, unfair, and counter productive in picking the best candidates for a cadet class.

How so when all commands are given as Gaeilge?

KickstartHeart · 21-03-2012 10:28pm

Turbine wrote: »

How so when all commands are given as Gaeilge?

The commands that are given in Irish are in drill only. Not actual important commands in operations or exercises. If a section commander is telling his troops where the final assault line is during an attack he doesn't say it in Irish, he says it in the language that his troops actually speak. (Unlikely that he/she will have a section of fluent Irish speakers)

If you notice, in most armies, the orders don't even sound like words of any language in drill. All soldiers can work with Irish drill and not know the language. If you ask a soldier, what does 'shocracht' mean, he'll probably say, 'I don't know it sounds like Arabic'. It actually means stand at ease, and is pronounced something along the lines of 'SHEEK RAWSH!' depending on your accent.

You don't actually need to be able to translate the orders to know what your'e being told to do.

In the British forces, even left, right, left, right, left right sounds more like 'HIFF HEIGHT HIFF HEIGHT HIFF HEIGHT!!'.

Trust me, being able to speak the language that the drill orders are given in won't make you in any way a better candidate than someone else. For two reasons. One, most people can't even speak Irish, and get on just fine on the drill square. Two, because the commands don't even sound like Irish (or any language actually), or in anyway how they're actually spelt or would be pronounced even if you were speaking Irish.

Have a look here; http://www.housemcfionn.com/files/CommandsShortList.pdf

Knowing the language that the drill commands are kind of losely based on when it boils down to how they're given, will most definitely not make you a better candidate than someone who has better leadership skills and experience.

EDIT: Firing range orders are given in Irish too, but these too are things you are taught. They are simple little phrases like 'Loadáil' and 'De-lodáil'. The kind of things a primary school student would understand. Knowing it before you go into the Army won't make you any better a potential leader.

KickstartHeart · 21-03-2012 10:33pm

Tybalt wrote: »

Thanks, I was more wondering if not showing enough proficiency in Irish if you choose to do an Irish interview would eliminate you from progressing in the competition. I thought the Irish interview was an additional interview to the main one. eg. The main interview would be the same for all candidates, then anyone who wanted to try get the 6% bonus would do an extra interview in Irish, much like the Leaving Certificate oral exam for Irish.

Nope, you do the normal interview or the Irish one. The Irish one isn't something you do as well as the other interview. Perhaps it should be, because the normal interview definitely probes more into your experience in the areas of competence that army officers should have. You should have to prove yourself as just as good a candidate as everyone else before getting your bonus for being able to speak a language that is poorly taught in schools and people from different areas grow up speaking and the rest of us don't. Its not discrimination, but its not actually very fair.

Capt Blackadder · 21-03-2012 11:39pm

KickstartHeart wrote: »

Nope, you do the normal interview or the Irish one. The Irish one isn't something you do as well as the other interview. Perhaps it should be, because the normal interview definitely probes more into your experience in the areas of competence that army officers should have. You should have to prove yourself as just as good a candidate as everyone else before getting your bonus for being able to speak a language that is poorly taught in schools and people from different areas grow up speaking and the rest of us don't. Its not discrimination, but its not actually very fair.

You do the normal interview, and if you chose to do so, you do an Irish language proficiency interview. All it does is assess your standard of Irish. Pass or fail. 6% extra or nothing. Simple as.

KickstartHeart · 21-03-2012 11:47pm

Capt Blackadder wrote: »

You do the normal interview, and if you chose to do so, you do an Irish language proficiency interview. All it does is assess your standard of Irish. Pass or fail. 6% extra or nothing. Simple as.

So do people who do the Irish interview have to do the normal one too?

Tybalt · 21-03-2012 11:48pm

Capt Blackadder wrote: »

You do the normal interview, and if you chose to do so, you do an Irish language proficiency interview. All it does is assess your standard of Irish. Pass or fail. 6% extra or nothing. Simple as.

Thanks, that's what I thought

KickstartHeart · 21-03-2012 11:56pm

I WAS WRONG!

"Candidates who wish to have their capability to communicate effectively in
both Irish and English taken into account may undergo a separate oral test in
the language in which the final interview is not conducted. In determining the
order of merit, a bonus of 6% of the total marks at the final interview will be
awarded to candidates who have shown themselves to be proficient in both
Irish and English."

That's from the cadetship booklet. I had spoken to people that did the normal interview and they told me that candidates who wanted to do the Irish one did an easier interview in Irish ONLY.

So all that I said about it in my previous posts was totally wrong. Apologies about that. I should have based my posts on decent info rather than peoples interpretations of what went on when they tried interviews.

Sorry about that lads!, and Capt Blackadder, thanks for pointing out that I was wrong because I could have put people way off track!

Sorry again!

Capt Blackadder · 21-03-2012 11:57pm

On the morning following your fitness test, when you're getting your final brief beofre you leave, you're asked what dates you definitely cannot do an interview on, and if you still want to do the Irish interview. They can't have 2 separate boards sitting(Irish and English speaking), insofar as there'd be less consistency of candidate selection between 2 boards than just the one.

On that note, this ain't gospel. It's just my own experience of the competition. For the gospel, no doubt, definitely the right information answer, get in contact with competitions section. They're friendly and helpful.

Capt Blackadder · 22-03-2012 12:01am

KickstartHeart wrote: »

Sorry about that lads!, and Capt Blackadder, thanks for pointing out that I was wrong because I could have put people way off track!

Sorry again!

Wasn't my intention. I may be a cnut, but I'm not a pedantic cnut. Again, if there's anything you're not sure of, ring competitions. There's no such thing as a stupid question, only the stupid git who never asked.

KickstartHeart · 22-03-2012 12:03am

Capt Blackadder wrote: »

Wasn't my intention. I may be a cnut, but I'm not a pedantic cnut. Again, if there's anything you're not sure of, ring competitions. There's no such thing as a stupid question, only the stupid git who never asked.

True. Thanks mate.

EDIT: True about the stupid question part, not the cnut part.
Thanks again.

Turbine · 22-03-2012 12:04am

KickstartHeart wrote: »

The commands that are given in Irish are in drill only. Not actual important commands in operations or exercises. If a section commander is telling his troops where the final assault line is during an attack he doesn't say it in Irish, he says it in the language that his troops actually speak. (Unlikely that he/she will have a section of fluent Irish speakers)

I think you need to come down off your high horse a bit. Drills are a huge part of your training, so to say drill commands aren't important is bullsh*t. Irish is actually a module done as part of your training because of the fact that all drill commands are given as Gaeilge. I'm not going to say whether or not there should be bonus points for being fluent in it, but it helps when it comes to getting a grasp of the commands, and it'll be something that gives you an edge when it comes down to the wire at the interview stage.

KickstartHeart wrote: »

If you notice, in most armies, the orders don't even sound like words of any language in drill. All soldiers can work with Irish drill and not know the language. If you ask a soldier, what does 'shocracht' mean, he'll probably say, 'I don't know it sounds like Arabic'. It actually means stand at ease, and is pronounced something along the lines of 'SHEEK RAWSH!' depending on your accent.

You're thinking of 2 completely different commands. The first one you mention is 'Ar Socracht' [AIR-HUCK-RUCT] which means at ease, which means you can move any part of your body except your feet and is usually given when the commanding officer wants you looking at them while they're speaking.

The second command you mentioned (SHEEK RAWSH) is actually 'Seasáig ar Áis' [SHASIG-AIR-AWSH] which means stand at ease, which is given after coming to attention and involves crossing your hands behind your back and spreading your feet about 12 inches apart.

While you're right in that you don't need to know the exact word or meaning of every word of every command, you do need to know the jist of it. So for example, you need to know the difference between the command for a half left turn, a quarter left turn, and a full left turn etc.

KickstartHeart wrote: »

Trust me, being able to speak the language that the drill orders are given in won't make you in any way a better candidate than someone else. For two reasons. One, most people can't even speak Irish, and get on just fine on the drill square. Two, because the commands don't even sound like Irish (or any language actually), or in anyway how they're actually spelt or would be pronounced even if you were speaking Irish.

From my own experience, they do actually. Each officer will have their own 'twist' in how they pronounce it, but its the same sound every time and if you have any grasp of Irish, it'll definitely help you in picking up the commands.

Also FWIW, this whole 'debate' around awarding points for doing your interview as Gaeilge was started by yet another politics forum regular who clearly got lost when he wandered into this topic (maybe someone should fix the signs at the entrance?). I think if people have a chip on their shoulder against the Irish language, they should take it to the politics forum and discuss it there.

Capt Blackadder · 22-03-2012 12:08am

No hassle. Can't wait for it all to start again. In real life and on here. I'm looking forward to the fashion at the Psychometric Test discussion to get going again. I wonder is a certain Private2bCadet still knocking about...?

KickstartHeart · 22-03-2012 12:13am

Turbine wrote: »

I think you need to come down off your high horse a bit. Drills are a huge part of your training, so to say drill commands aren't important is bullsh*t. Irish is actually a module done as part of your training because of the fact that all drill commands are given as Gaeilge. I'm not going to say whether or not there should be bonus points for being fluent in it, but it helps when it comes to getting a grasp of the commands, and it'll be something that gives you an edge when it comes down to the wire at the interview stage.

You're thinking of 2 completely different commands. The first one you mention is 'Ar Socracht' [AIR-HUCK-RUCT] which means at ease, which means you can move any part of your body except your feet and is usually given when the commanding officer wants you looking at them while they're speaking.

The second command you mentioned (SHEEK RAWSH) is actually 'Seasáig ar Áis' [SHASIG-AIR-AWSH] which means stand at ease, which is given after coming to attention and involves crossing your arms behind your back and spreading your feet about 12 inches apart.

While you're right in that you don't need to know the exact word or meaning of every word of every command, you do need to know the jist of it. So for example, you need to know the difference between the command for a half left turn, a quarter left turn, and a full left turn etc.

From my own experience, they do actually. Each officer will have their own 'twist' in how they pronounce it, but its the same sound every time and if you have any grasp of Irish, it'll definitely help you in picking up the commands.

Also FWIW, this whole 'debate' around awarding points for doing your interview as Gaeilge was started by a regular politics forum poster who clearly got lost when he wandered into this topic (maybe someone should fix the signs at the entrance?). I think if people have a chip on their shoulder against the Irish language, they should take it to the politics forum and discuss it there.

Ah I see. I always read the sheet with the commands on it and thought that Shocracht was the stand at ease command. That's why I was assuming that the commands don't sound at all like what they are said like.

Just to point out too, I completely understand the importance of drill, and its purpose. Its there for a reason. The workings of obedience and respect for rank start on the square. I wasn't trying to suggest that drill isn't important, just the words used, as long as the troops know what they are being told to do, isn't very important.

I'm not on a high horse. As you can see from my most recent posts on this thread I have no problem accepting when I'm wrong...and in this case, I was wrong too. I'll admit that, and thanks for pointing it out.

I'm not trying to sound like I have some sort of authority on this stuff or know more than other people, I'm just saying my opinions, and what I know (in these cases, what I thought I knew).

Turbine · 22-03-2012 12:21am

KickstartHeart wrote: »

Ah I see. I always read the sheet with the commands on it and thought that Shocracht was the stand at ease command. That's why I was assuming that the commands don't sound at all like what they are said like.

Just to point out too, I completely understand the importance of drill, and its purpose. Its there for a reason. The workings of obedience and respect from rank start on the square. I wasn't trying to suggest that drill isn't important, just the words used, as long as the troops know what they are being told to do, isn't very important.

I'm not on a high horse. As you can see from my most recent posts on this thread I have no problem accepting when I'm wrong...and in this case, I was wrong too. I'll admit that, and thanks for pointing it out.

I'm not trying to sound like I have some sort of authority on this stuff or know more than other people, I'm just saying my opinions, and what I know (in these cases, what I thought I knew).

Yeah that's fair enough. I don't want to get into a debate about the Irish language but I think people should respect the fact that it plays an important role in the Defence Forces. And while you may think now that you won't need a word of it, you'd be surprised how confused people can get over just knowing the difference between deas (right) and clé (left). Just knowing those two words will save you so much hassle when you start training.:P

CADETSHIPS 2012

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