General Elections. The Constituency of Tipperary

laoch na mona · 29-08-2015 12:40pm

digzy wrote: »

It's far too simplistic to blame Alan Kelly over the irish water fiasco.
I've no strong opinion on him either way but he inherited it when hogan left office. It is government policy. They ain't backing down nor can they between this and the election. Either he resigns or he stays on message.

It beggars belief how anyone paying the higher tax rate would be marching around wasting their time over this issue. If the state doesn't get the money this way they'll have to get it another way-income tax. The coalition is wedded to the principle of 'reducing taxation on work'. I'd rather pay €160 for the house than another 4% jump in the higher tax rate. The more consumption taxes the better. I've no issue paying for my water...just don't see why I've to pay for other lads who don't pay income tax. I agree with people protesting over the bloated, jobs for the boys, high pay, bonus culture etc.. Of Irish water. However most of the protesters simply don't wanna pay anything for water irrespective of the structure of the thing.

It's bizarre how this issue caught hold. Those of us who own our own homes had to pay property tax..which imho is a disgrace. If costs a lot more than 160 a year too. Now the cohort who never had to pay anything before have to make a small contribution and there's blue murder....

maybe people are unhappy about paying for something that they are already taxed for, especially when it is a basic need (such as water) being turned into a commodity to make privitisation easier.

water is the straw that broke the camels back so to speak.

digzy · 31-08-2015 1:50pm

laoch na mona wrote: »

maybe people are unhappy about paying for something that they are already taxed for, especially when it is a basic need (such as water) being turned into a commodity to make privitisation easier.

water is the straw that broke the camels back so to speak.

True. It has captured plenty coverage and attention.

However, people who bought their homes with after tax income are basically being taxed twice with the lpt. That's a disgrace.....but the 'we can't pay, we won't pay' crew either don't need to worry about lpt for those who don't own their own home and for those that are home owners the lpt follows the property so the state will take their cut eventually. Protesting about is pointless.

As things stand at present one cohort of the population-whether they like it or not-is paying for another cohorts water along with their own. Under the new system we all pay for our water equally.

Though it's shocking and disgusting to see the level of public money wasted on red tape and beurocracy. They've some wage bill given that they don't actually do anything.

It'll be interesting to see who we return this time. I dunno what influence hayes and Kelly have but I dare say it's more than Healy and mattie who're glorified county councillors.

laoch na mona · 01-09-2015 12:17am

there was huge opposition to the property tax (some councils lowered it) as well but that was a tax so revenue can take it at source. Water charges are different we can win without changing the law.

01-09-2015 9:04am

laoch na mona wrote: »

there was huge opposition to the property tax (some councils lowered it) as well but that was a tax so revenue can take it at source. Water charges are different we can win without changing the law.

So, it's not really about paying for water? It's a power struggle. Very mature!

Tippjohn · 01-09-2015 10:11am

The reason I am not paying is because when I bought my new house 10 years ago I paid over 5K advance water charges and a similar ammount of community contribution. My friend paid 12K for water and sewage in 2001.
VAT and car tax rose to pay for community services.
I hope that the pro payers are now better informed.
I waited until the last resort to pay home tax and only then because it was made tax law.
The water charge is not legal and there is no contract to pay it.
The government thought that because the home tax was complied with they could set up IW as a marketable cash cow for future sell off.
If frightened people had not paid the original 100 home charge none of this would have happened. I know older people who paid because they were frightened of the police knocking on the door.

01-09-2015 2:40pm

Tippjohn wrote: »

The reason I am not paying is because when I bought my new house 10 years ago I paid over 5K advance water charges and a similar ammount of community contribution. My friend paid 12K for water and sewage in 2001.
VAT and car tax rose to pay for community services.
I hope that the pro payers are now better informed.
I waited until the last resort to pay home tax and only then because it was made tax law.
The water charge is not legal and there is no contract to pay it.
The government thought that because the home tax was complied with they could set up IW as a marketable cash cow for future sell off.
If frightened people had not paid the original 100 home charge none of this would have happened. I know older people who paid because they were frightened of the police knocking on the door.

What utter nonsense.

Tippjohn · 01-09-2015 7:16pm

There is no reason to contract to use any utility company. The choice is for the potential customer. No signature is no contract is no reason to pay. IW is a one choice company, no alternative. Therefore there is no onus for anyone to sign up.

laoch na mona · 01-09-2015 7:21pm

Deleted User wrote: »

So, it's not really about paying for water? It's a power struggle. Very mature!

it's about standing up to austerity and this governments commitment to make those worst of pay the most. we already pay for water no one is saying we shouldn't pay for services but funding vital infrastructure through taxation is a fair and more practical way to do it

digzy · 01-09-2015 8:01pm

laoch na mona wrote: »

there was huge opposition to the property tax (some councils lowered it) as well but that was a tax so revenue can take it at source. Water charges are different we can win without changing the law.

who's we? I presume its the 'we've never had to pay for anything before and we sure aint starting now' crew.

On chap I know is on disability with the wife. He's involved in the whole 'i'm paying fcuk all let someone else pay' crew. did some work for me a while back...wanted paid in cash...the irony...

laoch na mona · 01-09-2015 8:13pm

digzy wrote: »

who's we? I presume its the 'we've never had to pay for anything before and we sure aint starting now' crew.

On chap I know is on disability with the wife. He's involved in the whole 'i'm paying fcuk all let someone else pay' crew. did some work for me a while back...wanted paid in cash...the irony...

no the we believe in progressive taxation to pay for services not toll both economics and privatisation

digzy · 01-09-2015 8:18pm

laoch na mona wrote: »

no the we believe in progressive taxation to pay for services not toll both economics and privatisation

so the 52% tax rate aint progressive enough....sure lets make it 60 to round it off.

digzy · 01-09-2015 8:20pm

laoch na mona wrote: »

it's about standing up to austerity and this governments commitment to make those worst of pay the most. we already pay for water no one is saying we shouldn't pay for services but funding vital infrastructure through taxation is a fair and more practical way to do it

who are the worst off and how have they paid most? maybe you're referring to those who've been landed with the usc. lpt and health levies..

digzy · 01-09-2015 8:27pm

Tippjohn wrote: »

The reason I am not paying is because when I bought my new house 10 years ago I paid over 5K advance water charges and a similar ammount of community contribution. My friend paid 12K for water and sewage in 2001.
VAT and car tax rose to pay for community services.
I hope that the pro payers are now better informed.
I waited until the last resort to pay home tax and only then because it was made tax law.
The water charge is not legal and there is no contract to pay it.
The government thought that because the home tax was complied with they could set up IW as a marketable cash cow for future sell off.
If frightened people had not paid the original 100 home charge none of this would have happened. I know older people who paid because they were frightened of the police knocking on the door.

The car tax is another bugbear of mine. I drive a 07 and pay five times the tax a bmw 5 series driver pays. the exact same car with a 08 reg is a few hundred less:rolleyes:

Surprised there isn't a greater public clamour about this one..

zurbfoundation · 03-09-2015 10:24am

totally agree on car tax point - its a mess, unfortunately a legacy of the green party which is ironic giving that I cant figure out how its more environmentally friendly to put a new Beemer on the road than to continue to run a small petrol engine from pre 2008.

Not as much clamour for it as since its now 7-8 years down the line, people have changed to lower taxed cars, more cars on the road than before and greater compliance with the "off the road" declaration now enforced meaning the tax take didn't shrink too much. At the time it kept the coalition partners the Greens happy and SIMI too as it gave them their "once every few years" bump in sales. Give it another few years and Europe will hand down a directive on diesel powered cars - it will swing back to small petrols and you will all be changing to another new Korean people carrier again.

A lot of hurdles out there now to run an older car -
- yearly NCT's
- generally higher tax
- some insurers not insuring anything over 15 years old

Tippjohn · 03-09-2015 2:38pm

Makes me laugh when some people pay a fortune to buy a new car to save say 100e a year tax. My present car is 04 petrol, my friend has the same car but an 11 and pays about a ton more. I am buying a new car that is as green as they come but am only saving e200.
The point is that VRT is illegal in the eu, so it is in fact called " a driving off the forecourt tax". One thing from the EU that Edna won't abide by.
As for someone else will pay, that is insulting, I have never had a cent/penny from anyone in my life. I do however consider that I have paid one heck of a lot for connection to a glorified hose, plus my up to date septic tank.
Those on benifits or state pension have been hammered by about 20% with new taxes/charges, whatever. The reward for working for many has been poverty.

Xenophile · 07-09-2015 9:16am

Eishtec creating 200 jobs at new Clonmel centre.

I can see the hand of Alan Kelly T.D. at work here, this is one of the benefits of having a Senior Minister in the Cabinet.

Customer call centre provider Eishtec has announced the creation of 200 jobs in its new custom built centre in Clonmel, Co Tipperary.

The jobs are being created over the next six months and recruitment is beginning straight away.

The company, which started out in May 2011 with nine employees after the closure in Waterford of Talk Talk, currently employs 1,300 people in Waterford, Wexford and Craigavon.

The new jobs will provide customer service support for the UK market.

Eishtec has been supported by the Department of Jobs through Enterprise Ireland.

touts · 07-09-2015 10:44am

Xenophile wrote: »

Eishtec creating 200 jobs at new Clonmel centre.

I can see the hand of Alan Kelly T.D. at work here, this is one of the benefits of having a Senior Minister in the Cabinet.

Customer call centre provider Eishtec has announced the creation of 200 jobs in its new custom built centre in Clonmel, Co Tipperary.

The jobs are being created over the next six months and recruitment is beginning straight away.

The company, which started out in May 2011 with nine employees after the closure in Waterford of Talk Talk, currently employs 1,300 people in Waterford, Wexford and Craigavon.

The new jobs will provide customer service support for the UK market.

Eishtec has been supported by the Department of Jobs through Enterprise Ireland.

Great news for Clonmel. I'm sure Kelly will take credit for it. How much he had to do with it will doubtless be hotly debated by Tom Hayes, Mattie McGrath etc but at least it is some very badly needed good news for Clonmel.

Tippjohn · 07-09-2015 10:58am

Enterprise Ireland is taxpayer funded I believe?

Xenophile · 07-09-2015 10:58am

touts wrote: »

Great news for Clonmel. I'm sure Kelly will take credit for it. How much he had to do with it will doubtless be hotly debated by Tom Hayes, Mattie McGrath etc but at least it is some very badly needed good news for Clonmel.

The only people that have any real say in our form of Government are the people at the Cabinet table.

touts · 07-09-2015 11:16am

Xenophile wrote: »

The only people that have any real say in our form of Government are the people at the Cabinet table.

Indeed but in politics who actually did the work never stopped anyone claiming credit.

But it will be interesting to see how Kelly, and Hayes, are positioned when it comes to the announcement of these jobs. I still think Kelly will have an almighty fight to keep his seat but in the battle for the 5th seat Cahill & Coonan won't have been happy campers as they read the papers over their cornflakes this morning.

laoch na mona · 09-09-2015 8:24pm

Xenophile wrote: »

Customer call centre provider

while new jobs are good news, if a few hundred jobs in a call center (the epitome of precarious work) the best labour can provide then they are no better than FG or any other right wing party

Xenophile · 10-09-2015 5:36am

laoch na mona wrote: »

while new jobs are good news, if a few hundred jobs in a call center (the epitome of precarious work) the best labour can provide then they are no better than FG or any other right wing party[/QUO

At least it's a stepping stone for those who want to work

10-09-2015 8:57am

laoch na mona wrote: »

while new jobs are good news, if a few hundred jobs in a call center (the epitome of precarious work) the best labour can provide then they are no better than FG or any other right wing party

If for family reasons one cannot leave an area, ANY jobs are to be welcomed.
Labour = work, so can't see your problem.

Tippjohn · 10-09-2015 1:34pm

About the best thing I learned at Tech College was this. Mr A asked the question "what is a business for" Like a complete muppet I replied " To generate employment" He replied " WRONG, It is to make money and no other reason" Absolutely correct and one which if applied creates a good living for all involved. Creating "jobs" that create nothing and lead nowhere are just for political point scoring. Any business that needs support and finance is doomed to failure.

Vizzy · 10-09-2015 1:47pm

Tippjohn wrote: »

About the best thing I learned at Tech College was this. Mr A asked the question "what is a business for" Like a complete muppet I replied " To generate employment" He replied " WRONG, It is to make money and no other reason" Absolutely correct and one which if applied creates a good living for all involved. Creating "jobs" that create nothing and lead nowhere are just for political point scoring. Any business that needs support and finance is doomed to failure.

The IDA can fold their tent and go home so ?

jem · 10-09-2015 2:10pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Labour = work, so can't see your problem.

lol

Tippjohn · 10-09-2015 3:39pm

Yes, because IDA supported companies undercut other companies and stiffle competition. One can labour and work but that does not mean success.

laoch na mona · 11-09-2015 4:02pm

Deleted User wrote: »

If for family reasons one cannot leave an area, ANY jobs are to be welcomed.
Labour = work, so can't see your problem.

i did say exactly that but like so many other job announcements its precarious work, you can be happy to hear about new jobs and demand better conditions for workers

tipptom · 11-09-2015 4:25pm

laoch na mona wrote: »

i did say exactly that but like so many other job announcements its precarious work, you can be happy to hear about new jobs and demand better conditions for workers

To hell with all that,I cant wait for the next press release on behalf of Alan Kelly to be posted up here!!

Xenophile · 11-09-2015 5:35pm

tipptom wrote: »

To hell with all that,I cant wait for the next press release on behalf of Alan Kelly to be posted up here!!

No such thing as bad publicity............................!

General Elections. The Constituency of Tipperary

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