The Avengers (2012) spoilers from post 1181

don ramo · 14-05-2012 7:07pm

jcsoulinger wrote: »

Dont know if someone asked this in the thread before but in the hulks first appearance in the film he is totally out of control but in his second freak out he seems to know exactly what hes doing, this inconsistency really grinded my gears.

that has been explained in thorough detail in this thread,

basically

if banner gets stressed or pissed off enough (like when the explosion went off on the carrier) he transforms into an uncontrollable hulk,

but he can make himself become the hulk also, he has the ability to control the transformation, and in that instance he can control hulk, like he said "I'm always angry" but he can control his anger,

jcsoulinger · 14-05-2012 7:24pm

don ramo wrote: »

that has been explained in thorough detail in this thread,

basically

if banner gets stressed or pissed off enough (like when the explosion went off on the carrier) he transforms into an uncontrollable hulk,

but he can make himself become the hulk also, he has the ability to control the transformation, and in that instance he can control hulk, like he said "I'm always angry" but he can control his anger,

This is a plausible explanation,,,,, but I dont think the film does enough to but this across to the audience.

don ramo · 14-05-2012 7:40pm

jcsoulinger wrote: »

This is a plausible explanation,,,,, but I dont think the film does enough to but this across to the audience.

yeah thats seems to be the general consensus alright,

at the end of 2008s incredible hulk (which is a lead-in to the avengers for banner/hulk) it showed that banner had learned in some part to control hulk, yet uncontrollable hulk still appears when banner gets really stressed,

jaykhunter · 14-05-2012 8:12pm

Is there a kayfabe reason how Iron Man can fly at huge speeds and smash into the ground etc and Stark's absolutely fine? Shouldn't he turn into soup regardless of how strong his suit is? Cheers

mikhail · 14-05-2012 10:11pm

jaykhunter wrote: »

Is there a kayfabe reason how Iron Man can fly at huge speeds and smash into the ground etc and Stark's absolutely fine? Shouldn't he turn into soup regardless of how strong his suit is? Cheers

No doubt there's a dozen variants on 'cushioning', but the correct answer is always "because it looks cool".

krudler · 14-05-2012 11:31pm

jaykhunter wrote: »

Is there a kayfabe reason how Iron Man can fly at huge speeds and smash into the ground etc and Stark's absolutely fine? Shouldn't he turn into soup regardless of how strong his suit is? Cheers

wouldnt look as cool if he knocked himself unconscious every time he gets twatted :pac:

saw it for the 2nd time at the weekend, loved Thor's "you want me to put the hammer down?!" line. and smashing Mjolnir off the Hulks mush as he charges towards him, great stuff

jcsoulinger · 14-05-2012 11:38pm

jaykhunter wrote: »

Is there a kayfabe reason how Iron Man can fly at huge speeds and smash into the ground etc and Stark's absolutely fine? Shouldn't he turn into soup regardless of how strong his suit is? Cheers

May be starks irritating inflated sense of self worth cushions him against any impact:)

paddy kerins · 15-05-2012 12:20am

krudler wrote: »

wouldnt look as cool if he knocked himself unconscious every time he gets twatted :pac:

saw it for the 2nd time at the weekend, loved Thor's "you want me to put the hammer down?!" line. and smashing Mjolnir off the Hulks mush as he charges towards him, great stuff

Real 'Fúck yeah!' moment I thought

paddy kerins · 15-05-2012 1:30am

Overheal · 15-05-2012 3:00am

krudler wrote: »

overheard someone arguing about how Stark could have fallen back through the portal once on the other side if there's no gravity in space, guess the earths gravity was strong enough to pull him back through as he wasnt that far past it the wormhole/portal thingy

mikhail wrote: »

I am unable to perform the necessary piece of relativistic calculus to tell whether gravity would have an effect through a circular aperture (ignoring for a moment the physics the aperture itself). At least I know I haven't a clue how that'd work though.

All I see is two people who have never watched Stargate.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWpfr_0RmuM

....Chumps.

mikhail · 15-05-2012 1:43pm

Overheal wrote: »

All I see is two people who have never watched Stargate.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWpfr_0RmuM

....Chumps.

Watched it religiously. Can't say I trust their wormhole physics is the same as The Avengers wormhole physics, given we've never actually observed a wormhole.

Galvasean · 15-05-2012 2:27pm

The physical reason why Iron Man fell out of the black hole:

Nobody cares

GAAman · 15-05-2012 2:45pm

krudler wrote: »

overheard someone arguing about how Stark could have fallen back through the portal once on the other side if there's no gravity in space, guess the earths gravity was strong enough to pull him back through as he wasnt that far past it the wormhole/portal thingy

Funny you say that, I finally saw avengers yesterday and there were three lads sitting a few rows behind and one of them was saying just that as they were leaving. I turned around and said "You just watched a film with 2 demi gods, a super soldier who was frozen for 60 years but is back, a guy who designed a revolutionary and life saving technology in a taliban cave camp and a guy who should have been killed by a huge dose of radiation but becomes a huge green monster that can and did punch out an intergalactic dragon type thing not to mention the alien invasion itself and THAT is the point you feel logic went out the window?!" He looked at me for a sec and then we laughed

Nervous Wreck · 15-05-2012 2:59pm

GAAman wrote: »

Funny you say that, I finally saw avengers yesterday and there were three lads sitting a few rows behind and one of them was saying just that as they were leaving. I turned around and said "You just watched a film with 2 demi gods, a super soldier who was frozen for 60 years but is back, a guy who designed a revolutionary and life saving technology in a taliban cave camp and a guy who should have been killed by a huge dose of radiation but becomes a huge green monster that can and did punch out an intergalactic dragon type thing not to mention the alien invasion itself and THAT is the point you feel logic went out the window?!" He looked at me for a sec and then we laughed

I don't think you understand the...... gravity.... of this plot-point.

:pac:

Nervous Wreck · 15-05-2012 3:06pm

In other news, a possible Hulk solo movie in 2015 hinges on the continued success of Whedon's take/Ruffalo's portrayal.

http://www.movies.com/movie-news/looks-like-you39ll-decide-if-hulk-gets-another-solo-marvel-movie-2015/7715

Otacon · 15-05-2012 3:51pm

Nervous Wreck wrote: »

In other news, a possible Hulk solo movie in 2015 hinges on the continued success of Whedon's take/Ruffalo's portrayal.

http://www.movies.com/movie-news/looks-like-you39ll-decide-if-hulk-gets-another-solo-marvel-movie-2015/7715

Is this not a roundabout confirmation that he will appear in at least one of the other franchise movies? How can it hinge on continued success if his character isn't 'continued'?

spankmaster2000 · 15-05-2012 4:11pm

I wonder will the t.v. series see the light of day.
I remember getting excited about this a year ago when I heard that del Toro was helping out; but I can't imagine his version being anything like Whedon's.

Maybe that's a good thing though; I'd rather the character didn't descend to just becoming the "comic relief".

(The Hulk is my favourite Marvel character, so it irks me a little when people's review of the Avengers begins with "The Hulk is so funny!")

Aside from the above, can a t.v. scale budget really deliver a convincing giant green monster?

paddy kerins · 15-05-2012 4:46pm

spankmaster2000 wrote: »

I wonder will the t.v. series see the light of day.
I remember getting excited about this a year ago when I heard that del Toro was helping out; but I can't imagine his version being anything like Whedon's.

Maybe that's a good thing though; I'd rather the character didn't descend to just becoming the "comic relief".

(The Hulk is my favourite Marvel character, so it irks me a little when people's review of the Avengers begins with "The Hulk is so funny!")

Aside from the above, can a t.v. scale budget really deliver a convincing giant green monster?

I think when Del Toro talked about it they going to try to limit the Hulks appearance as much as possible

Corholio · 15-05-2012 4:52pm

spankmaster2000 wrote: »

I wonder will the t.v. series see the light of day.
I remember getting excited about this a year ago when I heard that del Toro was helping out; but I can't imagine his version being anything like Whedon's.

Maybe that's a good thing though; I'd rather the character didn't descend to just becoming the "comic relief".

(The Hulk is my favourite Marvel character, so it irks me a little when people's review of the Avengers begins with "The Hulk is so funny!")

Aside from the above, can a t.v. scale budget really deliver a convincing giant green monster?

I thought I was the only one who felt like this!

One thing I didn't like about the film was a lot of the 'clever' dialogue or action was mostly humour based, especially with Hulk. Would love to see Del Toro's vision of it personally.

GAAman · 15-05-2012 5:17pm

Nervous Wreck wrote: »

I don't think you understand the...... gravity.... of this plot-point.

:pac:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMpXAknykeg

irishjay · 15-05-2012 6:05pm

is it just me, or does anyone think the first 30 mins or so . was just way to long to get them all in to the same scene
weak story as always expected .. only for the hulk id of walked out
i see the r6 screener leaked out to the net today to.. a dvd relesse soon too.....

Overheal · 15-05-2012 6:28pm

Nah, what else would they do? "Avengers, ASSEMBLE!" *Montage*

To be fair the way they did it was highly entertaining. **** exploded and Coulson threatened an ex-bloc general with violence. On his own cell phone.

Skinfull · 15-05-2012 6:44pm

^ Agreed.
If it wasn't for the, granted, slow build up, I don't think the rest would have quite had the impact. It was nice to give them all a little into and interaction on a smaller scale rather than having it a full ensemble movie from the start.

Penn · 15-05-2012 8:01pm

spankmaster2000 wrote: »

I wonder will the t.v. series see the light of day.
I remember getting excited about this a year ago when I heard that del Toro was helping out; but I can't imagine his version being anything like Whedon's.

Maybe that's a good thing though; I'd rather the character didn't descend to just becoming the "comic relief".

(The Hulk is my favourite Marvel character, so it irks me a little when people's review of the Avengers begins with "The Hulk is so funny!")

In fairness, it's not like they turned Hulk into a wise-cracking sidekick. The two funny bits they gave the Hulk were a) Hulk punching Thor (which isn't out of character. Hulk and Thor fought earlier in the movie but Hulk didn't necessarily win so chances are he would have punched Thor as a "F*ck you, I would have won"), and b) Hulk smashing Loki which isn't out of character as the humour comes from Loki rather than Hulk (Loki being arrogant then being smashed into the floor like a ragdoll and then the look on his face as he's lying on the floor).

Mickeroo · 15-05-2012 8:31pm

^ Can't say I saw Hulk as the comic relief at all, he got two big laughs and that was it, arguable Stark was responsible for more laughs over the entire running time. Most of Hulks moments gave me goosebumps more than anything, is there a term for that? Goosebump relief maybe?

mikhail · 15-05-2012 10:47pm

Mickeroo wrote: »

...Most of Hulks moments gave me goosebumps more than anything, is there a term for that?...

Good writing.

don ramo · 15-05-2012 10:56pm

i still chuckle when i remember when Thor blasted stark with lightening and his suit got supercharged to about 400% and stark just goes "well will ya look at that" and blasts Thor right back, that whole scene would just make ya

Mickeroo · 15-05-2012 11:03pm

mikhail wrote: »

Good writing.

I was confused for a second because I thought you were talking about my post, and I was like "well its not that good" then I realised what you meant.

Nervous Wreck · 15-05-2012 11:07pm

Yeah, I think the Hulk scenes made me smile more than laugh. The two big laughs were great but apart from that, I just smiled the entire way through the final fight scene from Banner's epic line onwards. The reason Hulk got such a great response, I think, is that they didn't have him so.... doomed. In every incarnation of Hulk I've seen so far, he's just a sad, sad monster. It's not the most fun to watch cos you just feel fuckin' depressed. In this version, he had character. He wasn't just a sad man trapped inside a desperate beast. He was a man who'd reached the end of his tether and climbed his way back up; embraced his curse and used it. That was much more fun to see and, because it was the first time we've seen it, it was really really cool. In contrast, I'm now well used to Downey's Stark and that character kinda fell by the wayside for me in this one. Funny how things go!

bigslick · 16-05-2012 9:50am

Seems not all Avengers are equal.....

http://www.cinemablend.com/new/Robert-Downey-Jr-Paid-Way-More-Than-Fellow-Avengers-He-Worth-It-30948.html

In the midst of their battles, there’s no star of the Avengers. That’s what makes the heroes such an effective team. Each brings a different set of skills to the table, and each is capable of doing things the others cannot. Behind the cameras however, there is clearly a star of The Avengers, and if you think differently, one look at their compensations will cause you to reconsider.

According to The Hollywood Reporter, once bonuses are factored in, Chris Hemsworth, Mark Ruffalo, Chris Evans and Jeremy Renner will likely earn between two and three million. Scarlett Johansson and Samuel L Jackson should rake in five to six million, and Robert Downey Jr will swagger off to his bank with around fifty million dollars. In case you suck at math, that means Marvel values Iron Man’s presence roughly twenty-five times more than Captain America’s.

The reason for the payout discrepancy is partially due to timing and partially due to Downey Jr’s proven track record. Following the incredible success of Iron Man, RDJ got his Tony Stark negotiating hat on and convinced Marvel to give him a percentage of revenue from all films in which he plays the character. When the studio branched out to sign other stars, they offered them set performance bonuses instead. The Avengers will clearly surpass all the benchmarks needed to hit those, but even a basic doubling of their salaries pales in comparison to any percentage Downey Jr might have. Plus, it’s probable to assume the basic fee he gets for his services is higher too.

krudler · 16-05-2012 10:37am

bigslick wrote: »

Seems not all Avengers are equal.....

http://www.cinemablend.com/new/Robert-Downey-Jr-Paid-Way-More-Than-Fellow-Avengers-He-Worth-It-30948.html

makes sense tbh, Iron Man is a bigger franchise than Captain America film wise, and it was the success of Iron Man that led to the Avengers being greenlit surely.

Mickeroo · 16-05-2012 10:46am

Downey Jr. is one of the biggest names around at the moment sure, makes total sense.

spankmaster2000 · 16-05-2012 11:16am

Aye, and simply looking at it from a Downy Jr. vs. Chris Evans point of view; I can't imagine that Captain America will ever surpass Iron Man.

pixelburp · 16-05-2012 12:05pm

Btw, may be seeing this tomorrow in glorious 2D: figure I didn't get to give it a good chance whilst peering at the murky & indistinct '3D'. I was hoping to go to Cineworld for their 2D showing, but am wondering what screen it's on in. Anyone know?

Galvasean · 16-05-2012 2:08pm

and now to meet someone more powerful than even the Avengers combined...
RDJ's agent.

Liam O · 16-05-2012 4:19pm

Sure Captain America was totally useless in the movie anyway

Only killed about 2 bad guys...

Galvasean · 16-05-2012 10:35pm

Liam O wrote: »

Sure Captain America was totally useless in the movie anyway

Only killed about 2 bad guys...

The measure of a true hero is how many he saves, not how many he kills.

Michael Bay's Optimus Prime take note.

tony1kenobi · 16-05-2012 11:47pm

Galvasean wrote: »

The measure of a true hero is how many he saves, not how many he kills.

Michael Bay's Optimus Prime take note.

Good job Independece Days Jeff Goldblum didn't take your advice.

Turtwig · 16-05-2012 11:53pm

tony1kenobi wrote: »

Good job Independece Days Jeff Goldblum didn't take your advice.

He's still amazed at how his laptop interfaced perfectly with an Alien Computer. His name was David btw.

Nervous Wreck · 17-05-2012 12:02am

Jernal wrote: »

He's still amazed at how his laptop interfaced perfectly with an Alien Computer. His name was David btw.

USB, duh.

jaykhunter · 17-05-2012 12:08am

Jernal wrote: »

He's still amazed at how his laptop interfaced perfectly with an Alien Computer.

The alien ship used Alienware PCs :pac:

I'll get my coat.

johnny_ultimate · 17-05-2012 12:10am

tony1kenobi wrote: »

Good job Independece Days Jeff Goldblum didn't take your advice.

Yeah, but now he's working in a knot shop.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NfLu7GRMR7g

(this thread is wildly off/topic, isn't it?)

senordingdong · 17-05-2012 8:46am

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

To me the only way a film deserves a reviewing in the cinema is a) you want to go with other friends or b) it's a work that truly requires another look to get your teeth around (and that's very rare - only one that jumps out recently is Margaret, and I'm going to wait for DVD on that one). To me, there's not really anything in The Avengers that requires a second-look. That's not necessarily a criticism mind - I don't think the vast majority of great films require a second look in close succession to the first. I actually think it takes away from the enjoyment of the film, as I tend to find myself 'taking it apart' a bit more if the film is still fresh in my mind, and means it will be a long time before I feel comfortable rewatching it again as it'll all be too familiar.

Again, this is just me, and I'm clearly a minority on here. But I had my fun with The Avengers: done & dusted, many more films to watch (none of which I'll rewatch immediately either). Not complex enough to justify spending more time with it when there's so many others in cinemas at the moment. I don't read the comics, but I very much doubt I'd feel differently if I did.

Fair point, but I'd compare the rewatch to being like, walking past a good looking girl, a really good looking girl, who is very pleasing to the eye...and then doing a double take for a second look at her. Not because you want to scrutinise her, but because you want to treat your eyes a second time.

norrie rugger · 17-05-2012 10:54am

senordingdong wrote: »

Fair point, but I'd compare the rewatch to being like, walking past a good looking girl, a really good looking girl, who is very pleasing to the eye...and then doing a double take for a second look at her. Not because you want to scrutinise her, but because you want to treat your eyes a second time.

We need better weather here!!
I was on holiday recently and had many a double take (sometimes 4-5 takes:cool:, sunglasses for the win)

Nervous Wreck · 17-05-2012 12:19pm

norrie rugger wrote: »

We need better weather here!!
I was on holiday recently and had many a double take (sometimes 4-5 takes:cool:, sunglasses for the win)

DeanJacobs · 18-05-2012 4:03am

Penn wrote: »

I was more so thinking the explosion of the missile hitting the Chitauri ship/base may have also pushed him towards the portal, then allowing gravity to pull him back through

The physics in that scene checks out. Turns out that the laws of physics prevent a discontinuous change in a gravitational field. Iron man couldn't suddenly go from earth-gravity to no gravity.

So he would still feel the earth's gravity on the other side of the portal. And the Chitauri ships would have had to use their engines to keep from falling in.

That wouldn't strain their engines, though. The gravity on their side of the portal would be about what one would expect from a dense asteroid -- one about the size of the portal but with the Earth's surface gravity.

Assuming a portal radius of 100 meters, it works out that the mass of this asteroid would be about 4 billion times smaller than Earth's. So the gravity from Earth that leaked through the portal would fall off quickly with distance from the portal.

Of course, the rush of air blasting through the portal into the vacuum of space would probably have been strong enough to overwhelm the gravity trying to pull iron man back down.

A book I found useful in understanding this stuff is The Physics of Stargates -- Parallel Universes, Time Travel and the Enigma of Wormhole Physics -- by Enrico Rodrigo.

Turtwig · 18-05-2012 4:42am

^^

And then when the Hulk catches Ironman that manages to break his fall and cushion his rapid deceleration that should have squished him like a bug on a windscreen. Makes perfect sense.

Overheal · 18-05-2012 5:16am

Jernal wrote: »

^^

And then when the Hulk catches Ironman that manages to break his fall and cushion his rapid deceleration that should have squished him like a bug on a windscreen. Makes perfect sense.

If you think Iron Man made it that far without disobeying certain laws about inertia and force and momentum you have another thing coming:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cmhk9CzCW4Y

/lawyered.

Please note that he eats a howitzer shell, crashes (creating an impact crater) and then moments later stands right back up and theres no discernible dent or nary a scorch on the armor, save for a little facepaint. otherwise the rest of his armor still looked rather shiny for the guy who was just directly hit by a god damn tank.

Mickeroo · 18-05-2012 9:51am

Here's an article in 2 parts on the "science of The Avengers": Part 1, Part 2.

Not read them myself yet.

LowOdour · 18-05-2012 10:00am

Was going to watch this today, but the showing at the most suitable time is the 3D showing. Have never watched a film in the cinema in 3D before....should I wait to catch a showing in 2D?

The Avengers (2012) *spoilers from post 1181*

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The Avengers (2012) spoilers from post 1181