Connor Murray - Kidney's new TOL?

TomsOnTheRoof · 27-02-2012 7:37pm

danthefan wrote: »

I watched the match at the weekend. How the hell else would I judge? Murray was god awful and Reddan was pretty good.

So you are basing his future career in an Irish jersey on one match? Good move :rolleyes: If that were everyone's attitude then Sexton would not now be our No. 1 fly half.

Hagz · 27-02-2012 7:37pm

MungBean wrote: »

The Italy game was our only chance for rotating players. But we didnt do it because Kidney doesnt rotate. In a competitive competition you dont rotate your squad, just as Schmidt wont rotate in the Heineken cup finals, he'll pick the best team available to have every opportunity to win. He doesnt pick Boss to start crucial matches to give him game time he picks him because he's the best option for a particular match. Thats not rotation.

I dont understand how anyone could seriously say going into a competitive match against a team that wont be beaten easily that a player should start just to get game time when they are clearly not the best option.

Well Kidney has always rotated in the 6N so I don't know where you're getting this idea that you can't rotate in a competitive competition.

danthefan · 27-02-2012 7:39pm

TomsOnTheRoof wrote: »

So you are basing his future career in an Irish jersey on one match? Good move :rolleyes: If that were everyone's attitude then Sexton would not now be our No. 1 fly half.

What in the name of jebus are you on about?

Hagz wrote: »

Well Kidney has always rotated in the 6N so I don't know where you're getting this idea that you can't rotate in a competitive competition.

Not really. There was a small amount of rotation in 2009, otherwise nearly all changes have been reacting to injuries.

jm08 · 27-02-2012 7:41pm

danthefan wrote: »

I watched the match at the weekend. How the hell else would I judge? Murray was god awful and Reddan was pretty good.

well, no one is going to find out how good he can be if he is dropped the first time he doesn't play well. murray and sexton are the future, they need a bit of time to build up a relationship and murray needs to get used to playing with the ireland pack.

danthefan · 27-02-2012 7:43pm

jm08 wrote: »

well, no one is going to find out how good he can be if he is dropped the first time he doesn't play well. murray and sexton are the future, they need a bit of time to build up a relationship and murray needs to get used to playing with the ireland pack.

As I said, that would have been my view if Murray had even put in a remotely competent performance, but unfortunately he did not. I would like Ireland to try win the game on Sunday if possible.

TomsOnTheRoof · 27-02-2012 7:43pm

jm08 wrote: »

well, no one is going to find out how good he can be if he is dropped the first time he doesn't play well. murray and sexton are the future, they need a bit of time to build up a relationship and murray needs to get used to playing with the ireland pack.

At last, a voice of reason. Fair play.

irishbucsfan · 27-02-2012 7:47pm

jm08 wrote: »

danthefan wrote: »

I watched the match at the weekend. How the hell else would I judge? Murray was god awful and Reddan was pretty good.

well, no one is going to find out how good he can be if he is dropped the first time he doesn't play well. murray and sexton are the future, they need a bit of time to build up a relationship and murray needs to get used to playing with the ireland pack.

He had been consistently bad. It's just that we haven't been able to compare it with our best combination in any game until now*.

There have been those pointing out the flaws in his game for a while now. It has shown constantly, its just that people were eager to overlook it. Now people are starting to see Murray for the player he is and not what they wish he was. He could become the best scrum half in Europe, but the longer his flaws are overlooked the less likely that becomes.

*Well we have once, and that was when we beat Australia with Murray out of the team, only for him to be stupidly put back in.

MungBean · 27-02-2012 7:48pm

jm08 wrote: »

so, you saying that Murray shouldn't be even in the squad?

so you'd have reddan & sexton playing 80 mins of rugby over the next 4 weeks then? what happens if either get injured. do you expect their replacements to be able to be internationally match fit not having played for 2 months

So its either play the full 80 or dont play at all ? There are such things as substitutions you know. If there going to be rotation you rotate the bench and release players back to the provinces to get game time if they are not match fit. You dont start them in crucial matches to get their match fitness for god sake.

Personally I'd have Murray on the bench for Scotland and Italy and Reddan and Boss for all others.

I'm sure Joe schmidt would be delighted to get the two of them back having played 5 x 80 internationals facing into a Heineken cup quarter final. surely you saw how tired Leinster were after their Heineken cup final last year when they played Munster in the magners league final and that was only one big match.

How does he cope with Healy, Ross, Heaslip, SOB, Darcy, Kearney all starting every competitive match ? Ideally they would have had a break week next week where some could rest and others would get game time with the provinces. But due to the French game being cancelled thats out the window. The entire team cant be rotated, rotation isnt an option at this level against these teams if you want any chance of winning.

pickarooney · 27-02-2012 7:59pm

I think the core issue of Murray's ponderous decision making is that he actually has a decision to make. In many ways he's the complete opposite of Stringer, who while completely one-dimensional did perfect that one part of his game, although I always felt we were missing out by having no breaking power at 9.

I don't think Murray was that bad on Saturday. I saw a lot of positives in his game and I think Reddan's contribution is vastly overstated, coming as it did in the death throes of the game where, as any regular watcher of Irish rugby knows, he plays his best stuff. The same goes for Boss and I daresay if Murray was the one making the 20-minute cameos a lot of people would be calling for him to be included from the start for his physicality and his ability to make yards from the back of the ruck/scrum.

In any international game, bar the complete mismatches we see in the WC group stages, the first sixty minutes are the hardest - it can look like teams are not making any effort when in fact they're giving it their all and grinding their opponents down. It's easy too to say that the SH should be tossing out fast ball from the off but it only takes one interception to give away a soft try and that's one area of the game where Italy are decent. Murray took his time, the team took its time and we ran in five tries. O'Brien, Heaslip, even O'Callaghan were hammering away for over an hour to wear down the Italian pack and clear the way for the subs to come in and look like stars. Healy was having a torrid time of it in the first half but got a second wind when the opposition was out of puff. I wouldn't mark him down for that.

Against Scotland, I'd drop Murray and O'Brien to the bench purely so they could come on and have the luxury of playing their games against the Scots bench or their tired first-teamers but I would have no qualms with them being picked for Paris.

jm08 · 27-02-2012 8:00pm

irishbucsfan wrote: »

He had been consistently bad. It's just that we haven't been able to compare it with our best combination in any game until now*.

There have been those pointing out the flaws in his game for a while now. It has shown constantly, its just that people were eager to overlook it. Now people are starting to see Murray for the player he is and not what they wish he was. He could become the best scrum half in Europe, but the longer his flaws are overlooked the less likely that becomes.

*Well we have once, and that was when we beat Australia with Murray out of the team, only for him to be stupidly put back in.

He hasn't been consistently bad. He came on against australia at 57 minutes (much the same time as reddan came on yesterday), and he actually made it across the whitewash for the try to be disallowed.

He had a good game against Italy in the world cup.

If you think Murray was bad against wales, Ireland would have been destroyed by wales with Mike Phillips at scrum half.

I don't see Ireland doing anyway better with reddan at scrumhalf with their big scrumhalf and their big backs. In fact, they wouldn't have been in sexton's face quicker as they wouldn't have to think about defending around the fringes.

Higher · 27-02-2012 8:00pm

jm08 wrote: »

the same could be said about sexton in that he has only a couple of good games in nearly 30 games, but everyone thinks he should be persisted with. murray also has a new backrow and sexton to build up a partnership with. think he has only played 2 or 3 games with sexton.

I think schmidt is getting it right with the way he rotates boss and reddan and in general, the one that starts usually looks the poorest for leinster as well.

Take a look at Sextons MOTM to match starts ratio. Hes had 18 starts for Ireland and has gotten MOTM 6 times. Basically hes Irelands best player in one in every three games hes started! Hes gotten MOTM awards against Fiji, South Africa, NZ Maori, Australia, England and Italy. In fact, of those 18 games the only bad games he could be said to have had were England, Scotland and Wales in the 2011 6N where his kicking was hampered due to a quad injury. I dont recall any other bad games unless you know of any?

danthefan · 27-02-2012 8:02pm

pickarooney wrote: »

I don't think Murray was that bad on Saturday. I saw a lot of positives in his game and I think Reddan's contribution is vastly overstated, coming as it did in the death throes of the game where, as any regular watcher of Irish rugby knows, he plays his best stuff. The same goes for Boss and I daresay if Murray was the one making the 20-minute cameos a lot of people would be calling for him to be included from the start for his physicality and his ability to make yards from the back of the ruck/scrum.

.

Death throes of the game!?

We had scored 3 points in the 2nd half to that point, 26 mins from the end of the match.

You're seriously reaching there.

Benny Cake · 27-02-2012 8:03pm

This is a storm in a teacup tbh... Statements like "Murray is the new TOL" are deliberately inflammatory & coming from the op I'm not one bit surprised. Anybody who posts/reads here regularly will know his history.

For what its worth, I think Reddan should start against France but I would like to see Murray back at the helm before the 6 nations is out. I sincerely believe himself & Sexton are our halfback pairing of the future. Kidney dropped Sexton for ROG when his form dipped & it most definitely hurt Sextons confidence. It has taken a while for him to recover & I just hope he doesn't make the same mistake with Murray.

27-02-2012 8:04pm

Higher wrote: »

Take a look at Sextons MOTM to match starts ratio. Hes had 18 starts for Ireland and has gotten MOTM 6 times. Basically hes Irelands best player in one in every three games hes started! Hes gotten MOTM awards against Fiji, South Africa, NZ Maori, Australia, England and Italy. In fact, of those 18 games the only bad games he could be said to have had were England, Scotland and Wales in the 2011 6N where his kicking was hampered due to a quad injury. I dont recall any other bad games unless you know of any?

there were a lot of people calling for rog to start but sexton got his chance because he is the younger player the same as murray

Higher · 27-02-2012 8:04pm

jm08 wrote: »

He hasn't been consistently bad. He came on against australia at 57 minutes (much the same time as reddan came on yesterday), and he actually made it across the whitewash for the try to be disallowed.

He had a good game against Italy in the world cup.

If you think Murray was bad against wales, Ireland would have been destroyed by wales with Mike Phillips at scrum half.

I don't see Ireland doing anyway better with reddan at scrumhalf with their big scrumhalf and their big backs. In fact, they wouldn't have been in sexton's face quicker as they wouldn't have to think about defending around the fringes.

When Murray came on against Australia he made a huge number of errors. Against Italy he was slow, caught in possession repeatedly and threw terrible passes. The less said about his 'performance' against Wales the better

Higher · 27-02-2012 8:05pm

Maliyah Fast Spike wrote: »

there were a lot of people calling for rog to start but sexton got his chance because he is the younger player the same as murray

Sexton got his chance because he was playing better than ROG

27-02-2012 8:06pm

Higher wrote: »

Sexton got his chance because he was playing better than ROG

no he wasent he had several horrible games far worse than murray had last weekend and rog was comeing on and saving games

Higher · 27-02-2012 8:08pm

Benny Cake wrote: »

This is a storm in a teacup tbh... Statements like "Murray is the new TOL" are deliberately inflammatory & coming from the op I'm not one bit surprised. Anybody who posts/reads here regularly will know his history.

Its not deliberately inflammatory its a valid point. The same arguments are being made for Murrays continued inclusion that used to be made for TOL i.e hes physical, he can make a break, hes like an extra backrower, we need him for defense. Its all a load of ****e.

I wont bother responding to the rest of your statement.

27-02-2012 8:09pm

Higher wrote: »

Its not deliberately inflammatory its a valid point. The same arguments are being made for Murrays continued inclusion that used to be made for TOL i.e hes physical, he can make a break, hes like an extra backrower, we need him for defense. Its all a load of ****e.

I wont bother responding to the rest of your statement.

but hes a far better passer and is younger

irishbucsfan · 27-02-2012 8:10pm

Maliyah Fast Spike wrote: »

Higher wrote: »

Sexton got his chance because he was playing better than ROG

no he wasent he had several horrible games far worse than murray had last weekend and rog was comeing on and saving games

When exactly has Sexton played horribly? He has kicked poorly, but his play has generally been superior.

Tox56 · 27-02-2012 8:11pm

Higher wrote: »

Its not deliberately inflammatory its a valid point. The same arguments are being made for Murrays continued inclusion that used to be made for TOL i.e hes physical, he can make a break, hes like an extra backrower, we need him for defense. Its all a load of ****e.

I wont bother responding to the rest of your statement.

I'm with the general arguement, but the title is unnecessarily inflammatory, we aren't basing this assumption of very much, give the guy a chance.

27-02-2012 8:12pm

irishbucsfan wrote: »

When exactly has Sexton played horribly? He has kicked poorly, but his play has generally been superior.

"an outhalf's job is to kick goals"

That's why Chris Patterson was the last Lions 10

Benny Cake · 27-02-2012 8:13pm

Tox56 wrote: »

I'm with the general arguement, but the title is unnecessarily inflammatory, we aren't basing this assumption of very much, give the guy a chance.

My point exactly. Had the thread been titled "Who should start at 9 v France" there's no issue...

jm08 · 27-02-2012 8:13pm

MungBean wrote: »

So its either play the full 80 or dont play at all ? There are such things as substitutions you know. If there going to be rotation you rotate the bench and release players back to the provinces to get game time if they are not match fit. You dont start them in crucial matches to get their match fitness for god sake.

Personally I'd have Murray on the bench for Scotland and Italy and Reddan and Boss for all others.

How does he cope with Healy, Ross, Heaslip, SOB, Darcy, Kearney all starting every competitive match ? Ideally they would have had a break week next week where some could rest and others would get game time with the provinces. But due to the French game being cancelled thats out the window. The entire team cant be rotated, rotation isnt an option at this level against these teams if you want any chance of winning.

they can't let players back to their provinces to play because they are needed for the bench or do you think Omahoney should have played for Munster on friday and sat on the bench on saturday just in case someone got injured, because if they don't get gametime, if they are needed they won't be match fit.

and i do feel for healy & ross (mostly ross, healy is being subbed (rotated;)) for court. he is going to be shattered when he gets back to leinster. paul o'connell will also have played that kind of time. the rest should have been subbed (rotated

) so shouldn't be too bad.

that game was the game to start sexton and murray. pity it wasn't the first game where ireland had a good chance of winning - italy normally get the wooden spoon so they are obviously the easiest team to play against and the right time to be trying to develop a partnership between sexton and murray.

Chucky the tree · 27-02-2012 8:14pm

If people want to develop players for the world cup then Murray should be starting. On one hand people on this forum knock Kidney for picking the same players and being incapable of building for the future yet on the other hand they want him to start a guy who's 30? People should be thankfully Kidney actually has this one right, just depressing that he got it right by mistake.

phog · 27-02-2012 8:15pm

Higher wrote: »

Take a look at Sextons MOTM to match starts ratio. Hes had 18 starts for Ireland and has gotten MOTM 6 times. Basically hes Irelands best player in one in every three games hes started! Hes gotten MOTM awards against Fiji, South Africa, NZ Maori, Australia, England and Italy. In fact, of those 18 games the only bad games he could be said to have had were England, Scotland and Wales in the 2011 6N where his kicking was hampered due to a quad injury. I dont recall any other bad games unless you know of any?

Clutching at straws.

27-02-2012 8:15pm

irishbucsfan wrote: »

When exactly has Sexton played horribly? He has kicked poorly, but his play has generally been superior.

kicking is very inportant for an international out half go back and look at his ratings from last years 6 nations and the autumn internationals before that people were calling for his head

Higher · 27-02-2012 8:16pm

phog wrote: »

Clutching at straws.

Not really. Someone said Sexton's had only a couple of good games for Ireland.

I responded that of 18 games he started hes been MOTM for 6 and been good in 9. Hes only actually had 3 poor games for Ireland and they were only poor from the boot.

But this is about Murray. Can you give me one game where he was good in for Ireland?

jm08 · 27-02-2012 8:17pm

Deleted User wrote: »

"an outhalf's job is to kick goals"

That's why Chris Patterson was the last Lions 10

so who are ireland's halfpenny & hook when Priestland gets the yips?

Hagz · 27-02-2012 8:18pm

Maliyah Fast Spike wrote: »

kicking is very inportant for an international out half go back and look at his ratings from last years 6 nations and the autumn internationals before that people were calling for his head

No, it isn't. It's important for the designated kicker of an international team. Which, yes, at the time was Sexton. But his kicking performances have sweet all to do with his performance as an out-half.

If Murray had some sort of extra responsibility like throwing in at line-outs, and that's what his flaw was and the rest of his game was good, then your point would be valid.

Higher · 27-02-2012 8:19pm

Chucky the tree wrote: »

If people want to develop players for the world cup then Murray should be starting. On one hand people on this forum knock Kidney for picking the same players and being incapable of building for the future yet on the other hand they want him to start a guy who's 30? People should be thankfully Kidney actually has this one right, just depressing that he got it right by mistake.

developing players for the WC is doing things like giving POM 10 mins off the bench or giving O'Malley 20minutes at centre. Or even starting a younger player who is inches from being as good as the older player. Starting a poor player (Murray) over Reddan simply because hes young is not the same.

I mean if were just going to select a player on purely potential for the world cup then lets throw in Luke McGrath right now. Its the same logic :rolleyes:

phog · 27-02-2012 8:19pm

Higher wrote: »

Not really. Someone said Sexton's had only a couple of good games for Ireland.

I responded that of 18 games he started hes been MOTM for 6 and been good in 9. Hes only actually had 3 poor games for Ireland and they were only poor from the boot.

But this is about Murray. Can you give me one game where he was good in for Ireland?

Read the Irl V Italy match thread about the MOTM award.

27-02-2012 8:19pm

jm08 wrote: »

so who are ireland's halfpenny & hook when Priestland gets the yips?

Circular argument

Who is Ireland's playmaker when ROG starts at 10? Or do we plan to "Contain" our way to a competition victory?

27-02-2012 8:19pm

Hagz wrote: »

No, it isn't. It's important for the designated kicker of an international team. Which, yes, at the time was Sexton. But his kicking performances have sweet all to do with his performance as an out-half.

really whens the last time you saw anyone but an outhalf as irelands designated kicker and who would you have had kicking

27-02-2012 8:21pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Circular argument

Who is Ireland's playmaker when ROG starts at 10? Or do we plan to "Contain" our way to a competition victory?

while rog started his career weak attacking hes come on a lot the real area sexton is superior is in defence

Higher · 27-02-2012 8:21pm

phog wrote: »

Read the Irl V Italy match thread about the MOTM award.

O.K so take one MOTM away if it makes you feel better.

Who was meant to be clutching at straws again?

Also you didnt answer my question, can you name one game where Murray was good for Ireland?

Hagz · 27-02-2012 8:22pm

Maliyah Fast Spike wrote: »

really whens the last time you saw anyone but an outhalf as irelands designated kicker and who would you have had kicking

...what's your point. I just explained to you that kicking is not a reflection as to how an out-half is playing. It's not part of an out-halves responsibilities, it's part of a kickers responsibility.

Chucky the tree · 27-02-2012 8:22pm

Higher wrote: »

developing players for the WC is doing things like giving POM 10 mins off the bench or giving O'Malley 20minutes at centre. Or even starting a younger player who is inches from being as good as the older player. Starting a poor player (Murray) over Reddan simply because hes young is not the same.

I mean if were just going to select a player on purely potential for the world cup then lets throw in Luke McGrath right now. Its the same logic :rolleyes:

Yes 10 minutes off the bench will really be very useful for a players development. Murray will either get better with games or he won't. The only way to find out is by letting him play in games.

27-02-2012 8:23pm

Higher wrote: »

developing players for the WC is doing things like giving POM 10 mins off the bench or giving O'Malley 20minutes at centre. Or even starting a younger player who is inches from being as good as the older player. Starting a poor player (Murray) over Reddan simply because hes young is not the same.

I mean if were just going to select a player on purely potential for the world cup then lets throw in Luke McGrath right now. Its the same logic :rolleyes:

murray is not a poor player at all hes got a good pass just need to learn to pass first and is very good in defence and attack

Higher · 27-02-2012 8:24pm

Guys can we keep this Connor Murray? I've noticed a trend that when players from a certain province are criticized some posters on this forum deliberately try to send the thread off topic to get it closed. No idea why but its something ive noticed.

So, do people think Marshall deserves a chance ahead of Murray? Thats a travesty in my opinion that Marshall got no chance and Murray continues to start for Ireland!

danthefan · 27-02-2012 8:25pm

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Yes 10 minutes off the bench will really be very useful for a players development. Murray will either get better with games or he won't. The only way to find out is by letting him play in games.

Correct. If only there was some way of getting him gametime, in possibly a league or cup of some sort, in which he could play many games per season under less pressure and intensity than the 6N. But alas.

27-02-2012 8:26pm

Hagz wrote: »

...what's your point. I just explained to you that kicking is not a reflection as to how an out-half is playing. It's not part of an out-halves responsibilities, it's part of a kickers responsibility.

and in ireland the out half is the kicker

Benny Cake · 27-02-2012 8:26pm

Funny thing is, if Leinster were playing France at the weekend, Schmidt would start Boss. Maybe he'll get a callup

Higher · 27-02-2012 8:28pm

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Yes 10 minutes off the bench will really be very useful for a players development. Murray will either get better with games or he won't. The only way to find out is by letting him play in games.

What? so we just continue to start a player whose played poorly for 8 games in the hope that he suddenly gets good? Murray has had 8 games to show hes up to it, I believe that Marshall deserves his chance at this stage.

jm08 · 27-02-2012 8:29pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Circular argument

Who is Ireland's playmaker when ROG starts at 10? Or do we plan to "Contain" our way to a competition victory?

you are the one who started the circular argument about patterson .:rolleyes:

straight question - do you think getting your kicks can win a match and if you do, who is the designated kicker for ireland?

Hagz · 27-02-2012 8:29pm

Maliyah Fast Spike wrote: »

and in ireland the out half is the kicker

What has that got to do with Murray. You're talking about taking kicks when this is a thread about a scrum-half. They are two completely different things.

27-02-2012 8:29pm

Maliyah Fast Spike wrote: »

and in ireland the out half is the kicker

Christ, without derailing any further, ROG has had well documented horror shows with the boot too.

If you want to start a ROG v Sexton thread, go nuts. Neither of those players play scrum half, the position of debate in this thread.

irishbucsfan · 27-02-2012 8:29pm

jm08 wrote: »

He hasn't been consistently bad. He came on against australia at 57 minutes (much the same time as reddan came on yesterday), and he actually made it across the whitewash for the try to be disallowed.

Yes he has been. He was bad against the USA, he was poor against Australia when he came on (think I've watched that game about 20x at this stage!), he awful against Wales, he was poor against Castres and terrible against Northampton this season. He was poor against Wales a couple of weeks ago and was poor again against Italy last weekend.

I think there are a number of contributing factors. Himself and Sexton do not suit each other at all. Sexton is the best out half in Europe but looks a shadow of that player when Murray is at 9.

One factor is his decision making. The time available to half backs is even less at international level and it is showing him up big time. Peter Stringer was the master of moving the ball away from contact immediately. He would come into the contact area knowing exactly where his first receiver is so that by the time he gets to the ball he could play it away from the base immediately. Murray is slow to the breakdown because of his terrible judgement. This means that he has even less time to work out where everyone is and where the ball should be going. By the time he gets there he then has to stop and look for his first receiver, by which time the opposition defense can organise itself. At this point the first receiver has far fewer options. This suits O'Gara down to the ground because he has played a kicking game all his life. Sexton on the other hand is clearly getting frustrated by the number of opportunities this is costing him in his running game. Conversely to this, Reddan and Sexton are so used to each other that Reddan is far more comfortable with what he should be doing, and so when he arrives at the base (even if he is slow as he sometimes is) he knows exactly where to get the ball to. I think the familiarity issue and the decision making issue go hand in hand.

jm08 wrote: »

He had a good game against Italy in the world cup.

With O'Gara, who is now the inferior 10, so we should really be looking at what he has done in our best combination.

jm08 wrote: »

If you think Murray was bad against wales, Ireland would have been destroyed by wales with Mike Phillips at scrum half.

Really don't know where this has come from. I never compared anyone to Phillips, nor do I rate Phillips very highly.

jm08 wrote: »

I don't see Ireland doing anyway better with reddan at scrumhalf with their big scrumhalf and their big backs. In fact, they wouldn't have been in sexton's face quicker as they wouldn't have to think about defending around the fringes.

We've only played well against top opposition with Reddan at scrum half and Sexton at out half since 2009. Possible exception being TOL/Sexton v. Wales in 2010.

Why Murray ever started in the first place over a player with Reddan's talent and credentials is a mystery, although having spoken to Don Reddan it does seem there are personal issues there to some extent. I wouldn't like to think this would really affect selection but I really do not see any other reason for the mistakes up to this point.

Chucky the tree · 27-02-2012 8:30pm

danthefan wrote: »

Correct. If only there was some way of getting him gametime, in possibly a league or cup of some sort, in which he could play many games per season under less pressure and intensity than the 6N. But alas.

As you said, less pressure and intensity which won't test him at the very highest level.

Higher wrote: »

What? so we just continue to start a player whose played poorly for 8 games in the hope that he suddenly gets good? Murray has had 8 games to show hes up to it, I believe that Marshall deserves his chance at this stage.

Well yes. A player won't reach his full potential after just 8 games.

jm08 · 27-02-2012 8:30pm

Higher wrote: »

What? so we just continue to start a player whose played poorly for 8 games in my opinion that he suddenly gets good? Murray has had 8 games to show hes up to it, I believe that Marshall deserves his chance at this stage.

fixed that for you.

You didn't see marshall at the weekend then

Connor Murray - Kidney's new TOL?

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