M17/M18 - Gort to Tuam [open to traffic]

mackerski · 21-08-2014 6:46pm

MYOB wrote: »

There is no difference between a standard dual carriageway and a standard motorway in the NRA specifications except the provision of emergency telephones.

I think you mean a Class 1 DC. The other thing you could have said is that (some) DCs are built to motorway standard. Equally true, but paints a very different picture.

L1011 · 21-08-2014 7:36pm

mackerski wrote: »

I think you mean a Class 1 DC. The other thing you could have said is that (some) DCs are built to motorway standard. Equally true, but paints a very different picture.

I mean a Type 1 DC, the type which would be used on a road such as this.

The comparison was made to a UK DC, which are (generally) of a much higher standard than a Type 2.

Type 1 DCs = Motorways without phones.

etchyed · 21-08-2014 8:09pm

Marcusm wrote: »

I've not read the contract and I suspect you haven't either but the nature of a PPP whose real purpose is to massage govt debt figures rather than involving a real risk transfer will mean that there are variable payments by the govt which will reflect traffic movements.

I'm not 100%, but certainly 99% certain that this is an availability payment based contract.

Zubeneschamali · 21-08-2014 8:24pm

Marcusm wrote: »

There is a reason why the UK still has lots of DC A roads.

There is a reason why the UKs deaths on the roads are not improving, while ours have been slashed as the motorways have opened.

mackerski · 21-08-2014 8:29pm

MYOB wrote: »

I mean a Type 1 DC, the type which would be used on a road such as this.

The comparison was made to a UK DC, which are (generally) of a much higher standard than a Type 2.

Type 1 DCs = Motorways without phones.

Agreed - but your original post stated this in a way that made it seem like a bad thing. It's actually a good thing.

alias no.9 · 21-08-2014 8:40pm

nowecant wrote: »

One of the major benefits of the road being declared a motorway is in relation to access. AFAIK anyone who owns land beside a DC can apply for planning permission to open an entrance. If it is the only possible means of entrance they almost have to be given permission. Given the state of irish planning this allows for a lot of bad access routes on and off DCs which can slow traffic down and cause accidents

As i understand it is almost impossible to gain access to a motorway. Thus future proofing against bad planning.

This a thousand times. How often have bypasses become little more than access roads for out of town retail while town centres die?

irishgeo · 22-08-2014 11:04am

the biggest error in that article is the first line, where it states its under construction

flat 2 the..... · 24-08-2014 3:14pm

Whats holding up the construction, they are usualy in straight away with plant and machinery at the rate they are going they will be behind schedule

flat 2 the..... · 24-08-2014 3:15pm

Whats holding up the construction, they are usually in straight away with plant and machinery at the rate they are going they will be behind schedule before they begin

Carawaystick · 24-08-2014 9:16pm

alias no.9 wrote: »

This a thousand times. How often have bypasses become little more than access roads for out of town retail while town centres die?

Yeah, the bypass of Dublin being a motorway sure stopped this from happening....

veryangryman · 24-08-2014 9:51pm

In fairness neither centre is on the m50. The n3 and N4 not being motorways was the problem there.

alias no.9 · 25-08-2014 12:16am

Carawaystick wrote: »

Yeah, the bypass of Dublin being a motorway sure stopped this from happening....

It didn't create any additional junctions or entrances. Imagine what the M50 would be like if it was a free for all for adjacent landowners to open entrances onto it?

mydiscworld · 25-08-2014 9:46am

The row goes on

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/new-550m-motorway-project-for-connacht-30533755.html

An Taisce has been slammed for adopting what has been described as a 'To Hell or to Connacht' attitude to people living in the West.

topper75 · 25-08-2014 10:26am

Connacht gets little enough in the way of infrastructure. This will be the best thing to happen the province since the airport in Knock. An Taisce are wrong here. The western seaboard needs an efficient interlink in its most populous stretches.

ratracer · 25-08-2014 10:27am

mydiscworld wrote: »

The row goes on

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/new-550m-motorway-project-for-connacht-30533755.html

If the contracts have been signed already, as we have been led to believe, the concerns of taisce or anybody else should be irrelevant at this stage, should they not? See this is why I am still very sceptical about this motorway project until the diggers actually hit the ground!!

antoobrien · 25-08-2014 11:21am

irishgeo wrote: »

the biggest error in that article is the first line, where it states its under construction

Actually according to Sean O'Neill (NRA spokesman) it is. He was on George Hook 's show last Thursday.

antoobrien · 25-08-2014 11:25am

topper75 wrote: »

Connacht gets little enough in the way of infrastructure. This will be the best thing to happen the province since the airport in Knock. An Taisce are wrong here. The western seaboard needs an efficient interlink in its most populous stretches.

Sean O'Neill showed the folly of the Frank/AT thinking on this on The Right hook last Thursday with an almost throwaway comment:

Frank is great and without question you don't design a motorway for today, you don't George, because you know what you'll be doing: you'll be rebuilding it two days from now. So we have to design it for 30 year lifespans and that means with population growth, traffic movements, regional development, life savings, economic value, you design it that way because a euro spent today will save you millions in the future.

There's another comment that deals with this and the roads discussed/mentioned before it, specifically the M20 M17/18 & GCOB.

There is such a significant deficit on the west coast of the country that these plans are in train and hopefully with funding they'll all be happening.

There were a lot of projects mentioned, so worth a listen to.

Zubeneschamali · 25-08-2014 11:29am

ratracer wrote: »

If the contracts have been signed already, as we have been led to believe, the concerns of taisce or anybody else should be irrelevant at this stage, should they not?

It is not clear from the article that An Taisce has any concerns, even if that mattered. It says:

An Taisce's policy director James Nix has claimed that the existing N18 between Oranmore and Claregalway is "more than adequate" to cater for traffic. Mr Nix said he believed that taxpayers were being made to borrow up to €250m needlessly for the project.

Did Mr. Nix say this in his capacity as Policy Director of An Taisce, or did he just say it over a few pints? An Taisce's website makes no mention of the issue.

antoobrien · 25-08-2014 11:37am

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

It is not clear from the article that An Taisce has any concerns, even if that mattered. It says:

An Taisce's policy director James Nix has claimed that the existing N18 between Oranmore and Claregalway is "more than adequate" to cater for traffic. Mr Nix said he believed that taxpayers were being made to borrow up to €250m needlessly for the project.

Did Mr. Nix say this in his capacity as Policy Director of An Taisce, or did he just say it over a few pints? An Taisce's website makes no mention of the issue.

Mr Nix is named in the article, as is his position in An Taisce, so he clearly wanted it on record or he'd have told Frank to say "sources" in AT.

As such he is letting it be known that this is the word according to Nix, with the added "credibility" of being part of AT.

Mr Nix is also trying to tell us that because he thinks the little green bit is okay, we should ignore the two significantly bad roads that are highlighted by the two brown bits, while simultaneously ignoring the fact that the two villages at either end of the green bit cause bottlenecks.

Zubeneschamali · 25-08-2014 12:01pm

antoobrien wrote: »

As such he is letting it be known that this is the word according to Nix, with the added "credibility" of being part of AT.

A quick google says An Taisce have been giving out about all NRA motorway projects for years, here they are in 2010:

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/roads-authority-criticises-ghost-motorway-claims-26674580.html

antoobrien · 25-08-2014 12:05pm

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

A quick google says An Taisce have been giving out about all NRA motorway projects for years, here they are in 2010:

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/roads-authority-criticises-ghost-motorway-claims-26674580.html

An Tasice have been against roads, not just motorways.

However the point is that the policy director for AT has allowed his name & role to be attributed to comments, making his comments not the personal comments of a the individual, but the official position of the organisation.

AT are against this road.

That will remain to be the case until AT distance themselves from the comments or Nix himself clarifies it.

Carawaystick · 25-08-2014 12:24pm

Saying the road is fine from Oranmore to Claregalway is completely avoiding the issue of the Jam in Claregalway.
It'd be like saying the road from Limerick to Adare is fine(it's just the road through Adare/Claregalway thats the issue.)

jenningso · 27-08-2014 11:50am

http://galwayindependent.com/20140827/news/ghost-motorway-claim-rejected-S43030.html
From today's Galway Independent (nothing new, just sums it all up). Anyway, contracts are signed, the route is future proofed, the west is getting some badly needed infrastructure and I hope Galway outer bypass is next. An Taisce can go suck on their thumb in the corner! I hope they don't keep shoving their big heads into planning issues in the west, they want to keep us in the eighties.......

Zubeneschamali · 27-08-2014 11:53am

jenningso wrote: »

An Taisce can go suck on their thumb in the corner! I hope they don't keep shoving their big heads into planning issues in the west, they want to keep us in the eighties.......

1880s, of course.

f2 · 31-08-2014 2:02pm

Spoke to a contact in Roadbridge, diggers expected on site at Tuam end at the end of this year

flat 2 the..... · 01-09-2014 11:41am

f2 wrote: »

Spoke to a contact in Roadbridge, diggers expected on site at Tuam end at the end of this year

Will it be machines belonging to Roadbridge or subcontractors machinery .

f2 · 01-09-2014 3:36pm

Roadbridge I assume, wiil find out later this week

TINA1984 · 01-09-2014 5:13pm

jenningso wrote: »

http://galwayindependent.com/20140827/news/ghost-motorway-claim-rejected-S43030.html
From today's Galway Independent (nothing new, just sums it all up). Anyway, contracts are signed, the route is future proofed, the west is getting some badly needed infrastructure and I hope Galway outer bypass is next. An Taisce can go suck on their thumb in the corner! I hope they don't keep shoving their big heads into planning issues in the west, they want to keep us in the eighties.......

What an appalling article, those quoted are certainly living up to the beal bocht caricature associated with west of Ireland politicians.

topper75 · 02-09-2014 8:50am

Maybe the Cromwell reference was unnecessary, but the claim that the west has been left behind infrastructure-wise is accurate and the claim that Claregalway has been the worst bottleneck in the country for some time is also accurate.

As politicians for the area, it is their job to speak out against detractors I would have thought.

dubhthach · 02-09-2014 11:57am

To put in perspective the population of Connacht is still lower today than what it was in 1911, in comparison Munster has it's highest population return since 1881. The population of Leinster is the greatest it's ever been. The result of lopsided development has resulted in the following percentage breakdown between the provinces:

Lenister / Munster / Connacht / Ulster (3 counties)
1841: 30.23% / 36.7% / 21.73% / 11.33%
1911: 37.01% / 32.98% / 19.46% / 10.54%
1926: 38.6% / 32.6% / 18.6% / 10%
1961: 47.26% / 30.13% / 14.88% / 7.71%
2006: 54.13% / 27.67% / 11.89% / 6.3%
2011: 54.59% / 27.16% / 11.82% / 6.42%

(Figures above are rounded)

Basically the country has become lopsided, not helped by the chronic underinvestment in key infrastructure. The facts are that Connacht lost 30% of it's population in the first 50 years of independence, Munster had 10% population loss during this period -- national population actually grew from 1926 to 1971 by 0.21%. This says alot about the priorities of the political elite.

Anyways the building of the M18/M17 and the future M20 will help tie Cork, Limerick and Galway together closer as a economic corridor.
The combined populations of the counties on this route (Cork, Limerick, Clare, Galway) make up 23.5% of the state's population.

M17/M18 - Gort to Tuam [open to traffic]

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