niall mellon charity?whats the big deal

walshb · 11-12-2008 10:43am

edanto wrote: »

Yes, I think you'll find that they did STOP and think about what they were doing. Of course the television show found some people to give out about it - controversy has a much higher news value than almost anything else. Combine controversy with some begrudgery about a high profile Irish do-gooder and you've got a great news story!

So what if the people that were given the houses want to rent them out? Are you saying that we should be so superior to the South Africans to say that for some reason they can't become landlords?!! Are they not adult enough to decide the best use to make of their new house? Maybe the money they get from rent helps the family far more then the new house would.

And for all those that want to do something about the problems that we have in Ireland....

http://www.volunteeringireland.ie/page.php?id=15

http://www.volunteer.ie/volunteeropportunities_search.htm

You have to search this stuff out - put a bit of effort into it. Of course charities aren't going to be able to advertise as widely as businesses, that would be a waste of money. Instead they use celebrities, because we know that will make the news, we use inventive ways to get our story covered, and hope that by doing so we'll make more people aware of the reasons for doing charity work.

Perhaps you might like to know how wealthy/poor you are compared to everyone else in the world? Think you're in the top 50%? top 40%? Find out!!

http://globalrichlist.com/

Again, do research on SA and you may just find that this country is NOT all that poverty
stricken. Why should my tax go towards SA when SA is a more powerfully resourced country by a long shot compared to Ireland. Sure, SA has poverty, but it also has damn wealth and enough of it to sort their 'housing' problem out.

BTW, did the folks in the shanty towns ASK Mellon and the Irish for this charity
Did they actually ask for it and NEED it?

I have been to these towns and the pride those people have is unreal and the
way they keep their 'houses' is amazing. So what is it with the Irish
and this attitude that 'you people need us, you people are handicapped, you people
depend on us?'

To me, this attitude is so damn patronising and insulting!

Listen, about the renting out. The whole poxy idea is that the houses
were to be built for the people because Mellon and CO are telling US
that the people need the housing. So, if they NEED the housing, why the hell aren't they living in the housing. They are renting and making money. So, the damn houses aren't REALLY needed for what we were told!
They are needed so the folks can rent and make money.
Don't try and worm out of it by what you are saying

Dave! · 11-12-2008 10:47am

walshb wrote: »

So who the feck is building all the stadia for the WC?

Are the Irish also training the people for this massive project?

You would swear the people of SA were handicapped and couldn't do a thing
without the GREAT IRISH:rolleyes:

If the people building the stadia were building houses for the people in the townships, then there wouldn't be much cause for Niall Mellon to be over there would there?

Evidentally the SA government is more concerned with building stadia than houses, so it's up to an NGO to do it.

walshb · 11-12-2008 10:52am

Dave! wrote: »

If the people building the stadia were building houses for the people in the townships, then there wouldn't be much cause for Niall Mellon to be over there would there?

Evidentally the SA government is more concerned with building stadia than houses, so it's up to an NGO to do it.

So there's the bloody problem. If we are going to JUMP every time some folks won't help their own people, what bloody use is that. What sort of message is that?

What incentive does that give the SA folks. So, lets screw a lot of our own, sure who cares, the good old mugs in Ireland will sort out the peasants. Yeah, that's real clever.

This is a NO brainer to me; I don't see how one can use the argument that
SA have all the resources in the world to stage World Cups; but they
somehow cannot sort out shanty towns with houses, but wait; the Irish
are there for that. Well, I have zero problem with the Irish helping, but when
my tax is aiding this SHAM, then I am entitled to answers!

I saw a documentary on the dreadful housing conditions that some folks in Ireland are facing and how the houses are just 'unlivable'; yet I didn't hear of one instance where a TRADESMAN or men went and repaired one single house for FREE. Yet, we are meant to believe that these same men and women are so damn charitable? Give me a freaking break!

walshb · 11-12-2008 11:03am

It's absolute crazy!

Mellon and CO tell us that the poor SA people need
proper housing and that we will provide it. They build the houses
and a lot of the houses aren't even used by those they were built
for. They are rented out.

Then when this gets brought up, the excuse is made
that the folks are entitled to RENT them. Maybe they are entitled, but don't then
tell me the houses were needed. You can't have it BOTH ways!

The folks who supposedly NEEDED the houses are RENTING them
So, logic tells me that those folks DIDN'T need or want the houses
in the first place; but wait, they do want them now, because now they see
that they can make a quick buck from them. Crazy is an understatement!

FlutterinBantam · 11-12-2008 11:08am

As well as providing sunshine breaks for liggers and freeloaders:mad::mad:

Dave! · 11-12-2008 11:19am

walshb wrote: »

So there's the bloody problem. If we are going to JUMP every time some folks won't help their own people, what bloody use is that. What sort of message is that?

What incentive does that give the SA folks. So, lets screw a lot of our own, sure who cares, the good old mugs in Ireland will sort out the peasants. Yeah, that's real clever.

Ah, so you don't support any NGOs? What about in Zimbabwe, where inflation must be about a gazillion % by now because of Mugabe? You don't think the rest of us have a responsibility to help if we can? What about the likes of UNICEF? They provide aid to the likes of Yemen, Swaziland, Mozambique, as well as South Africa and Zimbabwe. Or even domestically you have charities like Barnardos, who help Irish kids when the government fails to.

So let's just abandon all of these and the various governments will snap out of it and all will be dandy, yeah?

walshb wrote: »

Well, I have zero problem with the Irish helping, but when my tax is aiding this SHAM, then I am entitled to answers!

How much tax is going towards the Niall Mellon Trust? As I understand it the money is all raised by volunteers

You got a link/numbers?

walshb wrote: »

I saw a documentary on the dreadful housing conditions that some folks in Ireland are facing and how the houses are just 'unlivable'; yet I didn't hear of one instance where a TRADESMAN or men went and repaired one single house for FREE. Yet, we are meant to believe that these same men and women are so damn charitable? Give me a freaking break!

Listen bud, the only people in Ireland worse off than those living in townships in SA, are homeless people.

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

As well as providing sunshine breaks for liggers and freeloaders:mad::mad:

You mean... sunshine breaks that they pay for? What's the problem?

Bloody*Mary · 11-12-2008 11:22am

I know three people who over the years have gone to SA on this trip. All three would see it as some sort of wanky status symbol - that they are giving up their free time to help the poor in SA. Funnily enough, when they've come home,without exception,it's all been about who they met and what parties they've gone to and how GREAT they are for having gone. None have described the contitions or have made any attempt to help in another 'low profile' way. I can guarantee these three people would not have gone had it not been for the celebrity angle of this trip or teh fact they are escaping the winter here to the sun of SA. I'm not knocking what they do down there and I'm sure there are people that go for the right reasons but not anyone I know.

walshb · 11-12-2008 11:32am

Dave! wrote: »

Ah, so you don't support any NGOs? What about in Zimbabwe, where inflation must be about a gazillion % by now because of Mugabe? You don't think the rest of us have a responsibility to help if we can? What about the likes of UNICEF? They provide aid to the likes of Yemen, Swaziland, Mozambique, as well as South Africa and Zimbabwe. Or even domestically you have charities like Barnardos, who help Irish kids when the government fails to.

So let's just abandon all of these and the various governments will snap out of it and all will be dandy, yeah?

How much tax is going towards the Niall Mellon Trust? As I understand it the money is all raised by volunteers You got a link/numbers?

Listen bud, the only people in Ireland worse off than those living in townships in SA, are homeless people.

You mean... sunshine breaks that they pay for? What's the problem?

Real good argument. We are discussing SA and you bring up other countries.
SA is a very very powerful country. Why not address the issue?

Can you answer my queries regarding the renting scams in the country and how Mellon
is telling us the houses are needed, yet the folks are renting them and making money off them. We were TOLD the houses were for the people and were needed, not needed
for scams

Hmm, travellers in Ireland live in squalor; where are the NGO's building them free houses. That's how they choose to live; just like in the shanty towns; that is how they CHOOSE to live, so why are The Irish over imposing their 'charity' and 'good will'

These people have been living and damn surviving for years and years without trouble. Then, the Irish see a chance to make a name for themselves as angels of mercy and try to impose. It is now leading to scams, and trouble between whites and blacks!

Again, leave all the others out of it. The issue is the housing in SA and that's where we should be focusing on. Does SA need my tax? After all my research into the country and its diversity, wealth, power, population and desire, NO, we might just need their TAX!

I don't know how much, but our government does provide funding
to the Mellon trust. That is FACT, direct and indirect!

And it does give aid money to SA. Freaking madness!

rod flanders · 11-12-2008 11:51am

walshb wrote: »

So who the feck is building all the stadia for the WC?

Niall Melon's crew

rod flanders · 11-12-2008 11:58am

Dinter wrote: »

Good on you Tri.

Don't bother justifying what you did here. Charity shouldn't need to be justified and nor to people doing it need to flagellate themselves to ensure they're doing it in the proper spirit and not enjoying themselves.

Go away, do your thing and remember no matter how much you enjoyed it, it won't be half as much as the people you built houses for enjoy them.

Well done again.

Dinter are you feeling ok. This is the complete opposite to what you said about the lawyers building houses in Zambia back in July.

walshb · 11-12-2008 12:07pm

rod flanders wrote: »

Dinter are you feeling ok. This is the complete opposite to what you said about the lawyers building houses in Zambia back in July.

Lawyers doing something for nothing? Now alarm bells surely should have been ringing!::D

Dave! · 11-12-2008 12:38pm

walshb wrote: »

Real good argument. We are discussing SA and you bring up other countries.
SA is a very very powerful country. Why not address the issue?

You're the one not addressing the issue. The NMT is an NGO providing aid in another country where the government of that country has neglected to do so. Ireland is an example of this. There are many NGOs and privately run charities in Ireland.

I'm asking, do you think we should disband them, and leave the government to do their work, since they should be doing it in the first place?

walshb wrote: »

Can you answer my queries regarding the renting scams in the country and how Mellon is telling us the houses are needed, yet the folks are renting them and making money off them. We were TOLD the houses were for the people and were needed, not needed for scams

Where are you getting info about this 'renting scam'? Any numbers on how widespread it is?

The only info I can find on it is from an Irish Times article:

Another dilemma to emerge relates to the reappearance of shacks beside the beneficiaries' new homes. While the idea is to eradicate shacks in the long term, people are so poor they often rebuild the flimsy dwellings and rent them out to others in need of a place to stay. But Mellon sees this development as less problematic, viewing it as "entrepreneurship by people who have limited ways to make money".

So in reality it seems it's not the new houses, but rather the SHACKS that get rented out.

Or do you have a source that says it's the new houses that are rented? TBH it wouldn't surprise me, because there seems to be a problem in other areas of SA where people come in and force residents to pay them rent in flats, etc. That's a law and order issue though, not much NM can do about that.

But again, if you could provide a source that would be tip top.

walshb wrote: »

Hmm, travellers in Ireland live in squalor; where are the NGO's building them free houses. That's how they choose to live; just like in the shanty towns; that is how they CHOOSE to live, so why are The Irish over imposing their 'charity' and 'good will'.

These people have been living and damn surviving for years and years without trouble. Then, the Irish see a chance to make a name for themselves as angels of mercy and try to impose. It is now leading to scams, and trouble between whites and blacks!

What, do they have an alternative? The travellers do in some cases and choose not to. That's up to them. Where's the black South Africans' alternative?

They apparently want the houses, since that's what they told Niall Mellon when he went over originally in 2002. And because they've been welcomed back every year. And because the SAfricans help with the building and get jobs out of it. And because they move into the houses.

On what are you basing your assumption that they WANT to live in shacks?

Also, what conflict between blacks and whites are you talking about that wasn't there before? I read one article that mentioned that Niall Mellon received death threats from the rich white SAfricans for helping the blacks.

But on a more positive note, an account from one of the recipients of the houses:

"It is amazing what is happening. Some of the rich whites from across the river, those we work for, are beginning to help us. When we lived in shacks they would not even come into the township, but now they see we are human beings.

"A few whites are paying to build their staff homes, and others are helping by buying things like furniture. We have dignity and pride now because of our homes, so they see us differently, but it is the Irish who led by example," she explained to The Irish Times .

walshb wrote: »

I don't know how much, but our government does provide funding to the Mellon trust. That is FACT, direct and indirect!

If you don't provide evidence for that then you can write off that point, because it's baseless.

BTW some stats:

*The charity has built almost 10,000 new homes since 2002.

*It employs between 1,700 and 2,000 local South Africans year round.

*Over 3,000 volunteers have travelled with NM to SA since 2002.

*Volunteers include:

50 Irish bankers
Sean Dunne
a group of chiefs of staff from the US Congressional Black Caucus

NMTT worldwide chief executive Paddy Maguinness said while everyone’s presence was applauded, the Americans’ attendance was an important development in terms of securing future funding.

*The projects were also visited by:

the Heads of Housing from Johannesburg
the regional African director of the World Bank
eight senior staff members from Congress in Washington
Desmond Tutu

walshb · 11-12-2008 12:55pm

The trust does receive help in some form from the govt, even if it is in tax breaks etc, it is a form of help

Look, Dave, you believe that SA needs US, so be it. I don't want to change your mind.
I will not be fooled for a sec about it. You say they are welcomed back each year?
Damn right they are, aren't they providing free houses, who wouldn't invite them back.

Does this mean it's solving the REAL problem. You say SA are neglecting their people.
Well, they should continue to do so as long as Ireland are there to sort that out!

SA is a country more than capable of solving its own problems.
Will it support and FIX all its problems? No, it will support and fix
most and leave the Irish to clean up the dirt!

Answer me this: What damn tradesmen do you know that has ever done
a charitable act on a house in Ireland? Not built, just a charitable deed.
Yet, they are OVER in SA doing marvelous work for 'free,' or at least
this is what we're led to believe!

I'm telling you, Africa and charity is a sure thing, Nobody can open their mouths
to query it in fear of being labeled racist or begrudgers'. Not saying you have
said this Dave; it's a general feeling I have

These charities are fueling the problem and prolonging the problem because as long as SA sees this gullible attitude from us, the longer they will take advantage!

Dave! · 11-12-2008 1:16pm

walshb wrote: »

The trust does receive help in some form from the govt, even if it is in tax breaks etc, it is a form of help

If the grand total of the Irish gvmt's contribution is in not taxing the NMT, then I don't see the problem really. If the charity didn't exist, then they also wouldn't be getting tax from them.

walshb wrote: »

Look, Dave, you believe that SA needs US, so be it. I don't want to change your mind.
I will not be fooled for a sec about it. You say they are welcomed back each year?
Damn right they are, aren't they providing free houses, who wouldn't invite them back.

Indeed.

walshb wrote: »

Does this mean it's solving the REAL problem. You say SA are neglecting their people.
Well, they should continue to do so as long as Ireland are there to sort that out!

I was wrong, the SA gvmt is not neglecting their people:

Even though the South African government has managed to build two million homes since 1994, a further two million homes at least are needed to tackle the current housing backlog, which in reality will grow as time passes.

SA is a country more than capable of solving its own problems.
Will it support and FIX all its problems? No, it will support and fix
most and leave the Irish to clean up the dirt!

So the NMT is simply helping the government speed up their own program.

walshb wrote: »

Answer me this: What damn tradesmen do you know that has ever done a charitable act on a house in Ireland? Not built, just a charitable deed.
Yet, they are OVER in SA doing marvelous work for 'free,' or at least
this is what we're led to believe!

I don't know any, what's your point? Does that mean that South Africans now don't need secure houses?

You might as well say "Chernobyl International are great for Chernobyl -- but what have they done to help Irish people?!"

Just because there's problems in one place doesn't mean the problems in another place go away. The gulf between our problems and the problems in Africa are so great that your point is laughable. You're implying that tradesmen should be at home fixing lights and door handles, rather than in another country BUILDING HOUSES FROM SCRATCH for people who live between sheets of metal. Get some perspective.

BTW, if you think that the volunteers are over in SA making money, then say so and back it up, otherwise shut the hell up and stop trying to muddy the water with sh*te like this comment:

Yet, they are OVER in SA doing marvelous work for 'free,' or at least
this is what we're led to believe!

Are you gonna back it up? No? Great, so that's more bullsh*t from you.

walshb wrote: »

I'm telling you, Africa and charity is a sure thing, Nobody can open their mouths to query it in fear of being labeled racist or begrudgers'. Not saying you have said this Dave; it's a general feeling I have.

These charities are fueling the problem and prolonging the problem because as long as SA sees this gullible attitude from us, the longer they will take advantage!

This is the only legitimate point you've made in this thread.

If you get all the charities out of Africa and leave them to their devices, then they may all come together and fix it, or the situation may degenerate further. Understandably, not everyone is willing to take that risk.

walshb · 11-12-2008 1:34pm

Dave! wrote: »

If the grand total of the Irish gvmt's contribution is in not taxing the NMT, then I don't see the problem really. If the charity didn't exist, then they also wouldn't be getting tax from them.

Indeed.

I was wrong, the SA gvmt is not neglecting their people:
Even though the South African government has managed to build two million homes since 1994, a further two million homes at least are needed to tackle the current housing backlog, which in reality will grow as time passes.

SA is a country more than capable of solving its own problems.
Will it support and FIX all its problems? No, it will support and fix
most and leave the Irish to clean up the dirt!

So the NMT is simply helping the government speed up their own program.

I don't know any, what's your point? Does that mean that South Africans now don't need secure houses?

You might as well say "Chernobyl International are great for Chernobyl -- but what have they done to help Irish people?!"

Just because there's problems in one place doesn't mean the problems in another place go away. The gulf between our problems and the problems in Africa are so great that your point is laughable. You're implying that tradesmen should be at home fixing lights and door handles, rather than in another country BUILDING HOUSES FROM SCRATCH for people who live between sheets of metal. Get some perspective.

BTW, if you think that the volunteers are over in SA making money, then say so and back it up, otherwise shut the hell up and stop trying to muddy the water with sh*te like this comment:
Yet, they are OVER in SA doing marvelous work for 'free,' or at least
this is what we're led to believe!

Are you gonna back it up? No? Great, so that's more bullsh*t from you.

This is the only legitimate point you've made in this thread.

If you get all the charities out of Africa and leave them to their devices, then they may all come together and fix it, or the situation may degenerate further. Understandably, not everyone is willing to take that risk.

Mate, less of the insults. You don't agree with my view, big deal, Calm down and stop LETTING yourself down by resorting to the bullyy boy tactics. I made my point in a polite and respectful manner; either you do or simply don't converse with me.

I could have said all the stuff you threw at me about all the things you wrote.
Keep it polite and civil here. Don't drag this thread down into the gutter with your tactics

LaMer · 11-12-2008 1:37pm

So in reality it seems it's not the new houses, but rather the SHACKS that get rented out.

You're full of it, I've seen it first hand and the houses get rented out, the family go back to living in a shack.

As I've said before, you can't just magically make houses appear, things take time. Especially with the widespread nature of the problem Also have to take into consideration massive flight from the country to the cities for work, population growth, illegal immigration, etc. I've also said thet Niall Mellon has a government contract to build houses, so essentially he's not doing it of his own initiative.

walshb · 11-12-2008 1:39pm

LaMer wrote: »

You're full of it, I've seen it first hand and the houses get rented out, the family go back to living in a shack.

As I've said before, you can't just magically make houses appear, things take time. Especially with the widespread nature of the problem Also have to take into consideration massive flight from the country to the cities for work, population growth, illegal immigration, etc. I've also said thet Niall Mellon has a government contract to build houses, so essentially he's not doing it of his own initiative.

I have been told by SA people that I work with of the corruption going on
See, there is always someone willing to defend the indefensible and they
will throw in any 'red herring' to distort the picture.

LaMer · 11-12-2008 1:44pm

Yes aswell in any country with lower wages and an ineffective police force you'll get corruption, especially in the housing sector which is so big.

FlutterinBantam · 11-12-2008 1:57pm

And of course you will always get so called 'celebrities' willing to turn a blind eye to reality and jump on the self promotional bandwagon and the backwash of media exposure to promote their freeloading and vacuous lifestyle.

There are PLENTY of worthy causes here at home but of course those are not 'sexy' and don't involve airmiles and paparazzi .

Nobody,well very few in that liggerite class do anything for nothing,quid pro quo is the mantra there.

mark my words.

Dave! · 11-12-2008 2:02pm

walshb wrote: »

Mate, less of the insults. You don't agree with my view, big deal, Calm down and stop LETTING yourself down by resorting to the bullyy boy tactics. I made my point in a polite and respectful manner; either you do or simply don't converse with me.

I could have said all the stuff you threw at me about all the things you wrote.
Keep it polite and civil here. Don't drag this thread down into the gutter with your tactics

Gimme a break

Report my post if it's insulting, otherwise address the points or concede them.

LaMer wrote: »

You're full of it, I've seen it first hand and the houses get rented out, the family go back to living in a shack.

As I've said before, you can't just magically make houses appear, things take time. Especially with the widespread nature of the problem Also have to take into consideration massive flight from the country to the cities for work, population growth, illegal immigration, etc. I've also said thet Niall Mellon has a government contract to build houses, so essentially he's not doing it of his own initiative.

I'll have to take your word for it bud. If it's the case though, what's the problem? The good thing about the initiative is that the people have an ASSET which they can use however they need to. If someone gave me a new car, then I wouldn't necessarily drive it just because it was given to me. If I sell it then I could spend the 10k on a holiday for example.
Point being, if they have a proper house but no job to provide income, then of course they're going to rent out the new house or else the shack, depending on the circumstances. They'll have to prioritize. If I don't have enough money for clean clothes or for medicine, then I'm not gonna move into the house, I'm gonna rent it out.
If I have a job and can meet my expenditures in terms of food, water, medicine, clothes, then I'll move into the new house and probably rent out the old one.

It's certainly not a silver bullet to solve all of South Africa's problems, but it's better than nothing. Even if the NMT's only good point is that it employs 2,000 South Africans for the year, that's surely a good thing right?

walshb · 11-12-2008 2:12pm

Dave, let it go. I don't need to concede to anything. The evidence is there and you will try to defend the indefensible. You need to concede, not me; and if me not agreeing with
you gets you so irritated, then that says more about you than me.

I tried to debate in a civil and polite manner; you got all flustered and resorted to
'bull****; this and 'crap' that.
Really sound argument techniques:rolleyes:

You take the chaps word for it and yet you again
try to dismiss it?

So all the crap we are being told about HOW the folks NEED
the charity is now dismissed? Wow, talk about gullible!

Villain · 11-12-2008 2:15pm

Rooms are rented out by families for an income, stories of whole houses been rented while families remain in a shack have not been proven or found.

TBH my biggest problem with the charity is health and safety, I don't know about this year but last year the site was crazy dangerous, loads and I mean hundreds of people working on a mad busy building site with no expierence of a building site what so ever!

Dave! · 11-12-2008 2:19pm

walshb wrote: »

Dave, let it go. I don't need to concede to anything. The evidence is there and you will try to defend the indefensible. You need to concede, not me; and if me not agreeing with
you gets you so irritated, then that says more about you than me.

I tried to debate in a civil and polite manner; you got all flustered and resorted to
'bull****; this and 'crap' that.
Really sound argument techniques:rolleyes:

You take the chaps word for it and yet you again
try to dismiss it?

So all the crap we are being told about HOW the folks NEED
the charity is now dismissed? Wow, talk about gullible!

Alright mate, yeah you win

All the best

Villain wrote: »

TBH my biggest problem with the charity is health and safety, I don't know about this year but last year the site was crazy dangerous, loads and I mean hundreds of people working on a mad busy building site with no expierence of a building site what so ever!

Fair point really

walshb · 11-12-2008 2:19pm

Villain wrote: »

Rooms are rented out by families for an income, stories of whole houses been rented while families remain in a shack have not been proven or found.

TBH my biggest problem with the charity is health and safety, I don't know about this year but last year the site was crazy dangerous, loads and I mean hundreds of people working on a mad busy building site with no expierence of a building site what so ever!

For income?

So why not say this when the building began. They made out that these
people were destitute and in dire need of shelter. I didn't think that
they simply wanted the houses for INCOME??

Seriously, this is hilarious. Are we that gullible?

Jeez, I'd love if Mellon built me a house for free so I could RENT it!
No wonder they are being asked back every bloody year; oh but folks
seem to think all is perfect and above board:rolleyes:

LaMer · 11-12-2008 2:37pm

Rooms are rented out by families for an income, stories of whole houses been rented while families remain in a shack have not been proven or found.

Jesus Villian I must've been on drugs when I was told by a guy THAT HE WAS RENTING HIS HOUSE OUT TO LIVE IN A SHACK, because I could've sworn that's what he said. Not to mention the community care woman I talked to in Imizamu Yethu. Niall Mellon aswell must've been on some strong stuff himself when he said people did it aswell. Crazy!

EDIT: People are resourceful, I think it's a good way of making money, but I see it as contra to NMTT goal tnh, a family living in each room of a house, the houses are very small, very unsanitary, and even worse than a shack I would imagine.

Wile E. Coyote · 11-12-2008 2:53pm

Where were all the Celebrities and the RTE coverage when this was happening?

Man freezes to death on streets of Wicklow

Tragedy struck on the streets of Wicklow as a man sleeping rough appeared to succumb to freezing weather conditions and was found dead early Thursday morning.

The 61-year-old was discovered slumped in the doorway of a pharmacy on Abbey Street where it appeared he had been sleeping overnight.

A passing garda patrol became concerned after spotting the motionless man at 8.30 a.m. on Thursday morning. They approached him to see what his condition was and immediately contacted an ambulance and a doctor. He was pronounced dead at the scene at 8.50 a.m..

Post-mortem results still haven’t been released and as of yet it’s unknown if the recent cold snap had anything to do with his death. Gardaí have however rule out anything suspicious and it appears he died of natural causes.

While the man may have been sleeping rough in Wicklow Town, the gardaí were able to track down a Blessington address where he had previously resided.

It’s also understood that he had only recently arrived in Wicklow and had been advised to seek some sort of shelter from social services. However, it appears he hadn’t managed to make contact with anyone before his untimely passing.

Source: http://www.wicklowpeople.ie/news/man-freezes-to-death-on-streets-of-wicklow-1570225.html

Spider_Baby · 11-12-2008 2:55pm

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

There are PLENTY of worthy causes here at home but of course those are not 'sexy' and don't involve airmiles and paparazzi .

Nobody,well very few in that liggerite class do anything for nothing,quid pro quo is the mantra there.

mark my words.

Could it be because Ireland is a nation full of begrudgers, as proven throughout this thread???

Yes there are charities at home aswell as abroad.
Does this mean all the students who recently did the 24 hour fast for Concern are wrong for doing so? Should all schools stop collecting for Trocaire and Concern, and collect for their local charities instead???

And what about the tsunami? Should we all have kept our money and put it towards Irish charity work...?
I think not.

IvyTheTerrible · 11-12-2008 3:00pm

Personally, I think it is a good idea to volunteer fullstop. There are too many people whinging about how bad things are but sit on their hands.
Some peoples skills are better for volunteering here, others for volunteering abroad.

walshb · 11-12-2008 3:04pm

Spider_Baby wrote: »

Could it be because Ireland is a nation full of begrudgers, as proven throughout this thread???

Yes there are charities at home aswell as abroad.
Does this mean all the students who recently did the 24 hour fast for Concern are wrong for doing so? Should all schools stop collecting for Trocaire and Concern, and collect for their local charities instead???

And what about the tsunami? Should we all have kept our money and put it towards Irish charity work...?
I think not.

The Tsunami? Now, there was a damn windfall if ever I saw one. So so many funds
went on the HOP for that. Charities love poverty and love disasters. It's their business

FlutterinBantam · 11-12-2008 6:39pm

Kenny and his team got a good trip to Sri Lanka out of it.

Valerie Cox was with them.

Wonder did they fly econ or business??

Quickfire · 11-12-2008 8:12pm

Tbh the people that receive one of those houses are as poor as anyone on the continent.

dfx- · 11-12-2008 8:41pm

LaMer wrote: »

You're full of it, I've seen it first hand and the houses get rented out, the family go back to living in a shack.

That is what happens. You can also see the houses that the Government build poorly with cracks visible and the houses lopsided as the foundations give way. Built too quickly, too rashly..

You can also see from the motorways in Cape Town in particular that behind the first two rows of shacks, there are people living in houses with satellite television, free electricity and extremely cheap, if dangerous taxis to bring them into work. I've walked around Soweto and Langa, have seen the houses they've built themselves and bought themselves with money they've earned, walked down their bustling main streets and it is not the image of depressing, depraved poverty that people make out.

If you visit SA, every town has these shacks and houses. That significant amount are happy how they are..can we not just leave them be happy?

Tipsy7 · 11-12-2008 8:56pm

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

And of course you will always get so called 'celebrities' willing to turn a blind eye to reality and jump on the self promotional bandwagon and the backwash of media exposure to promote their freeloading and vacuous lifestyle.

There are PLENTY of worthy causes here at home but of course those are not 'sexy' and don't involve airmiles and paparazzi .

Nobody,well very few in that liggerite class do anything for nothing,quid pro quo is the mantra there.

mark my words.

Wot have minor irish celebrites done to you? Did they steal ure lunch money, pull ure hair in the playground????

Nehaxak · 11-12-2008 9:23pm

Tipsy7 wrote: »

Wot have minor irish celebrites done to you? Did they steal ure lunch money, pull ure hair in the playground????

Upset my stomach

Tha Gopher · 11-12-2008 9:26pm

SA is a country of high unemployment.

Now, while the intention is good, surely it would be more beneficial to just pay local SA builders to build the homes. Creates employment and has the same end housing result.

No?

Dodgykeeper · 12-12-2008 1:47am

Tha Gopher wrote: »

SA is a country of high unemployment.

Now, while the intention is good, surely it would be more beneficial to just pay local SA builders to build the homes. Creates employment and has the same end housing result.

No?

The SA builders are too busy building these:

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c128/dysan1/2010collage.jpg

FlutterinBantam · 12-12-2008 10:08am

Tipsy7 wrote: »

Wot have minor irish celebrites done to you? Did they steal ure lunch money, pull ure hair in the playground????

Answer= none of the above. If I interpret your unusual prose style correctly.

What they won't do I can reveal to you,is waste my charitable contributions sunning themselves and throwing shapes for the media in far flung destinations while they attempt to portray themselves as concerned caring citizens.

That ,my friend, don't cut no tobacco for the Flutt.

walshb · 12-12-2008 10:17am

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Answer= none of the above. If I interpret your unusual prose style correctly.

What they won't do I can reveal to you,is waste my charitable contributions sunning themselves and throwing shapes for the media in far flung destinations while they attempt to portray themselves as concerned caring citizens.

That ,my friend, don't cut no tobacco for the Flutt.

I assume you donate then to these charitable causes?

If so, that's your business; but don't you think
that donating is further prolonging and fueling the
fiasco.

As dodgy showed with his image in the post above yours
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c128/dysan1/2010collage.jpg

We contributing allows this so called 'neglect' to continue?
The neglect is only there because maybe, just maybe, the SA
government know the Irish will do all the 'dirty' work for them!

FlutterinBantam · 12-12-2008 10:24am

Your inference sir is both perplexing and totally incorrect.

Tim Robbins · 12-12-2008 10:32am

Duiske wrote: »

So it sickens your balls that your not getting paid and getting attention ? As far as I know, Niall Mellon is removing his name from that Trust, because he wants the focus on the charity, and not on himself.
And by the way, its ordinary, everyday brickies, carpenters, plumbers and labourers who raise the money themselves to go there every year, and build proper homes for people who are living in, basically, sheds. Pretty laudible if you ask me.

The cost is 5k for an Irish person to go over and do a week's work. They raise this money themselves. The minimum wage in South Africa is 40 cent an hour. Which is what many people get if they are lucky.

To pay a local for a week's work could be as cheap as 40 cent * 40 = 16 euro.

If you pay them 100 euro for the week that's six times minimum wage.

So imo it's awful inefficient charity. It would make much more sense to not have Irish people going over. And use the money to pay the locals.

But unfortunately some people want their feel good factor and this means they have to do it, even if it's much more expensive for them to do it.

You'd want to be really stupid or racist to think that a white person has to fly over to do something a black person can't do and for this reason paying a much higher price is justified.

FlutterinBantam · 12-12-2008 10:45am

Paying the locals 100 a week would NOT be a good idea if the min wage is 40c per hour.

cause all sorts of inflationary and jealousy problems and throw the local order of things out of kilter.

Employ loads of local labour at a fair wage, send out project people if you have to, but spare us the freeloaders and liggers who are out for the media exposure.

Whole thing is fuelled by PR

walshb · 12-12-2008 10:51am

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Your inference sir is both perplexing and totally incorrect.

Relax, it was a simple question, that's all:rolleyes:
Nothing to infer about it whatsoever

I just wanted to know if you actually donated and maybe your reasons.
Hey, if it's none of my business, OK, just say so!

I never said YOU DID donate. I just asked if you DID?

Tim Robbins · 12-12-2008 10:53am

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Paying the locals 100 a week would NOT be a good idea if the min wage is 40c per hour.

cause all sorts of inflationary and jealousy problems and throw the local order of things out of kilter.

Employ loads of local labour at a fair wage, send out project people if you have to, but spare us the freeloaders and liggers who are out for the media exposure.

Whole thing is fuelled by PR

Exactly. My point was the wasting of money because white people feel they have to "be there" to build it. You could pay locals minimum wage, fair or high wage and have a massive building project for the same amount of money.

But people will raise more money if they get a holiday and an "experience". That's too the detriment of actually doing more for thsoe who do it.

It's yet another abuse of charity that people can't seem to twig.

Dave! · 12-12-2008 11:01am

They employ 2,000 South Africans year round (dunno at what wage).

The Irish only come over for a week to have a 'blitz' and quickly get a few hundred houses built.

There probably wouldn't be any need for them to go over if there wasn't a skills shortage in the building sector.

Tim Robbins · 12-12-2008 11:13am

Dave! wrote: »

There probably wouldn't be any need for them to go over if there wasn't a skills shortage in the building sector.

If they go with a skill, that's not more expensive at local prices - that's fine. But I find it hard to believe, considering the cost of flight etc. But, anyway how many go over with a skill?

The documentary I saw looked like people who had no skill, just wanted the feel good factor.

FlutterinBantam · 12-12-2008 11:15am

Tim Robbins wrote: »

Exactly. My point was the wasting of money because white people feel they have to "be there" to build it. You could pay locals minimum wage, fair or high wage and have a massive building project for the same amount of money.

But people will raise more money if they get a holiday and an "experience". That's too the detriment of actually doing more for thsoe who do it.

It's yet another abuse of charity that some people can't seem to twig.

Fixed that for ya;)

edanto · 12-12-2008 11:21am

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

they attempt to portray themselves as concerned caring citizens.

So, let me get this right. It's OK for people to care about issues, social justice and equality as long as they don't try to get in the newspapers and...

(i) seek the approval and submit to the individual priorities of every taxpayer, particularly your wordy self and mr walshb

(ii) concern themselves only with problems in Ireland until we move ourselves from position 5 on the Human Development Index ranking to a position agreeable to your goodselves (potentially 1 or higher) and only at that stage begin to work overseas

(iii) not help any countries with resource bases larger than ours, even if they have been subject over the centuries to slavery, colonialism, WB/IMF economic torture etc because on paper everyone in the country could be wealthy

So imo it's awful inefficient charity. It would make much more sense to not have Irish people going over. And use the money to pay the locals.

Pity that you've ignored something very important in the system.

http://www.irishtownship.com/docs/Acc001.pdf

From their accounts - they transferred about 75% plus of the fundraised moneys to SA, presumably to pay for people and materials there, just like you are suggesting.

The thing that you have ignored is that the volunteers are far more motivated to fundraise than they would be if they weren't travelling there themselves.

{EDIT: I see you haven't ignored it - from your post just above. But you still seems to think that it's an abuse of charity?! wtf?}

The building happens years round, employing SA people with the money collected in Ireland.

But unfortunately some people want their feel good factor

What in the world do you mean by that?! Are you saying that it's bad to enjoy the feeling of helping someone else?

Have you been completely conditioned by the massmedia to feel that the only way we should get our feelgoods is by buying things in shops that we don't need? I doubt you have been, but could you please clarify what you mean by your disparaging remark about people that want to feel good by doing charitable work. Cos frankly I'm a bit insulted by it, in case you couldn't tell.

FlutterinBantam · 12-12-2008 11:25am

walshb wrote: »

Relax, it was a simple question, that's all:rolleyes:
Nothing to infer about it whatsoever

I just wanted to know if you actually donated and maybe your reasons.
Hey, if it's none of my business, OK, just say so!

I never said YOU DID donate. I just asked if you DID?

You may have mistake inference for accusation.

No anger in my response,sorry if it came across that way.

Not intended to be in anyway sharp, sorry again.

FlutterinBantam · 12-12-2008 11:33am

edanto wrote: »

So, let me get this right. It's OK for people to care about issues, social justice and equality as long as they don't try to get in the newspapers and...

(i) seek the approval and submit to the individual priorities of every taxpayer, particularly your wordy self and mr walshb

No ,it's not ok for people to 'care' about issues just so they can get in the newspapers.;)

walshb · 12-12-2008 12:17pm

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

You may have mistake inference for accusation.

No anger in my response,sorry if it came across that way.

Not intended to be in anyway sharp, sorry again.

No problem mate, glad we cleared it up. I was simply interested!

niall mellon charity?whats the big deal

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