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Assault captured on video

  • 26-09-2014 10:31pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 755 ✭✭✭


    Hi All,
    Saw the RTE news at 9.00, the first clip was Enda Kenny arriving by car, a member of the public went up to make a point and he was elbowed and shoved back wards by a guy in a black suit and glasses, was he a garda.


«1

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 42 jake66


    That was no gaurd.
    Just another fanatical hanger on...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,082 ✭✭✭bravestar


    mcko wrote: »
    Hi All,
    Saw the RTE news at 9.00, the first clip was Enda Kenny arriving by car, a member of the public went up to make a point and he was elbowed and shoved back wards by a guy in a black suit and glasses, was he a garda.

    Why?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,029 ✭✭✭um7y1h83ge06nx


    Was it Kevin Costner by any chance?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,098 ✭✭✭chasm


    mcko wrote: »
    Hi All,
    Saw the RTE news at 9.00, the first clip was Enda Kenny arriving by car, a member of the public went up to make a point and he was elbowed and shoved back wards by a guy in a black suit and glasses, was he a garda.

    The guy doing the shoving was Frank Feighan, FG TD for Roscommon/Galway.


  • Registered Users Posts: 755 ✭✭✭mcko


    Thanks for that , I would not expect that behaviour from a Garda.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,624 ✭✭✭Little CuChulainn


    mcko wrote: »
    Thanks for that , I would not expect that behaviour from a Garda.

    If you advance towards the Taoiseach from an angry crowd you probably should.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 320 ✭✭lighterman


    mcko wrote: »
    Thanks for that , I would not expect that behaviour from a Garda.

    But you do from a TD?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,385 ✭✭✭Preset No.3


    So its ok for the US Secret Service to protect the President, but if someone gets 'shoved' in Ireland there has to be enquiry?!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,693 ✭✭✭flutered


    So its ok for the US Secret Service to protect the President, but if someone gets 'shoved' in Ireland there has to be enquiry?!

    we have different gun laws over here, also not as many loopers, a sitting senator in the us does not use voilence on a civilian.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,180 ✭✭✭hfallada


    flutered wrote: »
    we have different gun laws over here, also not as many loopers, a sitting senator in the us does not use voilence on a civilian.

    The civilian ran at the taoiseach. He was not a complelety innocent by stander. Although the push was a bit extreme


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  • Moderators, Education Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 24,056 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sully


    Isn't Kenny's security private and not a Garda?

    I wouldn't expect anything less when you go for the head of state but it's a bit extreme in Ireland for this kinda thing


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,462 ✭✭✭✭mickdw


    hfallada wrote: »
    The civilian ran at the taoiseach. He was not a complelety innocent by stander. Although the push was a bit extreme

    I don't believe the man from the crowd was going to attack Kenny. I believe the TD was making sure nobody got in before him to do the arse licking so gave the man a good elbowing to keep him back.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 248 ✭✭kjbsrah1


    There is a lot of dislike for Enda Kenny in Roscommon so its no surprise that there was a bit of argy bargy - He is a plonker!!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 52,249 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    hfallada wrote: »
    The civilian ran at the taoiseach. He was not a complelety innocent by stander. Although the push was a bit extreme

    I didn't see anyone running at anyone else in that clip.
    Feighan behaved like a thug. There was no need for the elbowing at all.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,646 ✭✭✭washman3


    Would really love if hardman Frank tried to shove/push/elbow me.
    I can guarantee he would still be looking for most of his front teeth now.!!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,101 ✭✭✭Rightwing


    He should have given the bogman a smash in face.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,693 ✭✭✭flutered


    hfallada wrote: »
    The civilian ran at the taoiseach. He was not a complelety innocent by stander. Although the push was a bit extreme

    te civilian ran at the t-shoch, now you are taking the proverbial, the t-shock was still in the car.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 245 ✭✭Think_then_talk


    I call upon any person who thinks a crime has been committed to report same to An Garda Síochána. Do not leave it to others to do so. Self Defense & Defense Of an Other is up to a JURY.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I call upon any person who thinks a crime has been committed to report same to An Garda Síochána. Do not leave it to others to do so. Self Defense & Defense Of an Other is up to a JURY.

    Well to report an alleged assault you need the alleged injured party to make the complaint.

    And I believe that a party in this case has made a complaint or will do so according to the media.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,624 ✭✭✭Little CuChulainn


    washman3 wrote: »
    Would really love if hardman Frank tried to shove/push/elbow me.
    I can guarantee he would still be looking for most of his front teeth now.!!

    I'm amused at all the high horse brigade who also happen to be threatening physical violence as a response. I'm sure the word irony is foreign to most of them.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 52,249 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Feighan clearly committed an assault.
    An assault should not be condoned.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,333 ✭✭✭Zambia


    So he may now make a complaint, some people have little to be concerned about. An over reaction to a moronic act would be my summation.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 394 ✭✭unichall


    Meh, not really sure what all the fuss is about, sure he might be a bit overzealous but I'd hardly call it an assault.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 52,249 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    unichall wrote: »
    Meh, not really sure what all the fuss is about, sure he might be a bit overzealous but I'd hardly call it an assault.

    A Common Law - an intentional act by one person that creates an apprehension in another of an imminent harmful or offensive contact.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,333 ✭✭✭Zambia


    A Common Law - an intentional act by one person that creates an apprehension in another of an imminent harmful or offensive contact.

    And what are the possible defences to that ?


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 18,217 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatFromHue


    nothing in this but people trying to score political points.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 52,249 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Zambia wrote: »
    And what are the possible defences to that ?

    There aren't any and the video clearly shows the intent of Feighan.
    Why do you think he apologised if it was not an assault?

    Both of them are probably prats but there was definitely an assault by one on the other.
    There is no justification for it either.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,333 ✭✭✭Zambia


    There aren't any and the video clearly shows the intent of Feighan.
    Why do you think he apologised if it was not an assault?

    Both of them are probably prats but there was definitely an assault by one on the other.
    There is no justification for it either.

    There are defences to assault and it's a prosecutors task to discount each to obtain a result.

    Fact is there is a defence there that would be hard to discount. From the clip his actions are a response.

    The so called victim could be just guilty of assault given your definition above.


  • Registered Users Posts: 543 ✭✭✭Shady Tady


    I'd say frank must have played football for the Rossies, the are mighty with the elbows and masters of the third man tackle!


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 52,249 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Zambia wrote: »
    There are defences to assault and it's a prosecutors task to discount each to obtain a result.

    Fact is there is a defence there that would be hard to discount. From the clip his actions are a response.

    The so called victim could be just guilty of assault given your definition above.

    There didn't seem to be intent in the old lad to assault Feighan but there was definitely intent in Feighan to assault him. You can clearly see that in the video. The old lad wasn't looking at Feighan at all until he was assaulted.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,624 ✭✭✭Little CuChulainn


    There didn't seem to be intent in the old lad to assault Feighan but there was definitely intent in Feighan to assault him. You can clearly see that in the video. The old lad wasn't looking at Feighan at all until he was assaulted.

    Both lads are jostling to get at the car and Feighan comes out on top. You can't start something and then complain when you lose.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 394 ✭✭unichall


    A Common Law - an intentional act by one person that creates an apprehension in another of an imminent harmful or offensive contact.

    If you do 51kph in a 50kph zone by the letter of the law you are speeding but you're not really and won't ever be prosecuted for it, same here.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 52,249 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Both lads are jostling to get at the car and Feighan comes out on top. You can't start something and then complain when you lose.

    Using your elbow on someone is not jostling, it's assault.
    The older lad approached the car to ask Enda a question and was assaulted by Feighan. He didn't fight back at all and seemed shocked by the treatment he received. Only one person did the assaulting.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 52,249 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    unichall wrote: »
    If you do 51kph in a 50kph zone by the letter of the law you are speeding but you're not really and won't ever be prosecuted for it, same here.

    Poor analogy.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,083 ✭✭✭afatbollix


    The lad pushed back was also a TD.


    They are both running in the local by election. Its just gone back to school politics. One side is using the senior football captain to show off to the people and the other side was trying to ridicule him.

    The story here should be how someone got so close to the leader of the state! That lad could of been some nutter looking to get revenge over something silly.

    Last I checked knifes are not licenced here and can do just as much damage as a gun.


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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    afatbollix wrote: »

    The story here should be how someone got so close to the leader of the state! That lad could of been some nutter looking to get revenge over something silly.

    Last I checked knifes are not licenced here and can do just as much damage as a gun.

    That's why he has a Garda Escort. If there is a hint that there might be a troublesome crowd then extra resources are deployed.

    And isn't it a great country that people can approach the leader of the country and share their issues with him? Even if he doesn't do anything about it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 394 ✭✭unichall


    Poor analogy.

    Not really, I was alluding to it not really being an assault and more of an argy bargy and I was quoted the letter of the law by which yes it would be assault but, you would never get an assault charge out of it like my anology above, technically yes but in reality no


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 52,249 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    unichall wrote: »
    Not really, I was alluding to it not really being an assault and more of an argy bargy and I was quoted the letter of the law by which yes it would be assault but, you would never get an assault charge out of it like my anology above, technically yes but in reality no

    You should check your local court cases in the newspapers.
    Cases like that every week.

    Have another look at it and see who was the aggressor.

    http://www.thejournal.ie/frank-feighan-garda-complaint-1694986-Sep2014/


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 394 ✭✭unichall


    You should check your local court cases in the newspapers.
    Cases like that every week.

    Have another look at it and see who was the aggressor.

    http://www.thejournal.ie/frank-feighan-garda-complaint-1694986-Sep2014/

    I guess only time will tell but I can tell you an assault that minor if it had to be dealt with would be done via the adult caution system so I can't see how stuff like this ends up in the district court every week. I've certainly never seen a case this minor in court and god knows I spend enough time there


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 52,249 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    unichall wrote: »
    I guess only time will tell but I can tell you an assault that minor if it had to be dealt with would be done via the adult caution system so I can't see how stuff like this ends up in the district court every week. I've certainly never seen a case this minor in court and god knows I spend enough time there

    Maybe BUT only one of them would get the adult caution in this case and you know which one.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,818 ✭✭✭donvito99


    unichall wrote: »
    If you do 51kph in a 50kph zone by the letter of the law you are speeding but you're not really and won't ever be prosecuted for it, same here.
    Poor analogy.
    unichall wrote: »
    Not really, I was alluding to it not really being an assault and more of an argy bargy and I was quoted the letter of the law by which yes it would be assault but, you would never get an assault charge out of it like my anology above, technically yes but in reality no

    It's a poor analogy because there need not be intent to commit an offence such as speeding. It's a strict liability offence.

    Think about it. If a Garda needed to prove there was intent to speed, nobody would be convicted.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,646 ✭✭✭washman3


    The swaggering arrogance that is the trademark of the blueshirts is incredible.
    Just imagine their reaction if a Sinn Fein election candidate had behaved as the 'brave' Frank did yesterday.
    Just hope the people see him for what he is come election time.!!


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 18,217 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatFromHue


    Stupid, absolutely stupid.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,624 ✭✭✭Little CuChulainn


    washman3 wrote: »
    The swaggering arrogance that is the trademark of the blueshirts is incredible.

    Are you referring to Gardaí or some other group?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,646 ✭✭✭washman3


    Are you referring to Gardaí or some other group?

    Ask your dad...;)


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,472 ✭✭✭brooke 2


    CatFromHue wrote: »
    Stupid, absolutely stupid.

    +1000!!! :(:(


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,624 ✭✭✭Little CuChulainn


    washman3 wrote: »
    Ask your dad...;)

    How would he know what's going on in your head?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,344 ✭✭✭NUTLEY BOY


    You have the right to defend yourself.

    That right applies similarly to the defence of others including even those who are strangers to you.

    You are entitled to use reasonable force in effecting that defence. You cannot quantify reasonable force precisely. If it was reasonable and proportionate in all of the circumstances the "defender" is unlikely to face prosecution even if he went a shade too far.

    Reasonable fear or apprehension of imminent attack on you or someone else is a fair reason to start defending yourself. You don't have to wait to be punched if you have proper belief that force or violence is about to be offered and delivered to you.

    BTW I am offering no view of the merits of anyone's alleged conduct in this particular instance. I am just making an objective observation of principle.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,646 ✭✭✭washman3


    How would he know what's going on in your head?

    He might know what's going on in hardman Frank's head...;)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 52,249 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    I don't think we should involve politics in this at all.

    If the same happened in a chipper, like if there was a queue and someone shouted and order across the man in front's head. If the man turned around and elbowed him because of that then he's committing an assault. Clearly.


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