What about moving the Dublin Footballers to Ulster

dxhound2005 · 09-09-2014 1:28pm

freddiek wrote: »

the GAA have always moved slowly when it comes to change. I'm not going to say the system is satisfactory just because that is the way things have always been done.

I think players these days want more out of the sport than pulling on your county jersey in a championship match and getting mauled by a much stronger side. Its no fun for them or spectators.

its time to get innovative with regard to the format for the football championship.

The most a bad team will get is two games in the Championship. What can you suggest to change that? There really is no interest in secondary competitions giving the losers another go. There already is a league where teams in theory play against comparable opposition.

GAA is unusual in that the league is the secondary competition with the knockout competition being the primary one. And if anyone was starting from scratch they would not make that into a 12/9/6/5 format with a couple of teams from abroad thrown in. But I still think there would be major resistance to any move to do away with provincial championships.

Hibbeler · 09-09-2014 1:52pm

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Personally I don't think it is an insult to the remaining Leinster counties. Leinster has become a joke competitively. Bar the 2010 one off where Meath won against Louth. Lienster is a one horse race.
I think the quality of Leinster is harming the development of this potentially great Dublin team. This year they were not tested until September. Leinster was not in the least bit entertaining for Dublin supporters the sizes of the crowds showed this. Also for the neutrals the games were non-events.

Imagine the interest if Dublin were put in Ulster it would be massive.

The insult is that you are basically saying to the likes of Meath and Kildare in particular that just because you're not good enough to beat Dublin now at this moment in time, then what's the point in even letting you try. And all this in spite of the historical evidence which shows that Meath have also had their periods of dominance in Leinster.

As a Meath supporter I'm not going to gloss over the fact that we've been severely underperforming in the last decade or so, but I for one believe that all the current problems in Meath football are fixable. I think we have the basis of a decent team at the moment and need to focus on promotion to division 1 in the league and staying there. No doubt a Kildare fan will tell you the same.

I would also point out that both Meath and Kildare have larger populations than 3 out of the 4 all Ireland semi finalists this year. And looking at the likes of Donegal (going nowhere for a long time and now going for 2nd AI in 3 years) I think there is no real reason the likes of Meath can't do the same

gormdubhgorm · 03-07-2015 1:52am

Hibbeler wrote: »

The insult is that you are basically saying to the likes of Meath and Kildare in particular that just because you're not good enough to beat Dublin now at this moment in time, then what's the point in even letting you try. And all this in spite of the historical evidence which shows that Meath have also had their periods of dominance in Leinster.

As a Meath supporter I'm not going to gloss over the fact that we've been severely underperforming in the last decade or so, but I for one believe that all the current problems in Meath football are fixable. I think we have the basis of a decent team at the moment and need to focus on promotion to division 1 in the league and staying there. No doubt a Kildare fan will tell you the same.

I would also point out that both Meath and Kildare have larger populations than 3 out of the 4 all Ireland semi finalists this year. And looking at the likes of Donegal (going nowhere for a long time and now going for 2nd AI in 3 years) I think there is no real reason the likes of Meath can't do the same

I think there is more of a chance of Westmeath winning the AI then Meath at this stage.
It was great to see happy Westmeath supporters floating on pure joy leaving croke park. I hope they make some sort of go at it in the final.
Otherwise it could be yet another year where the provincial finals are non-competitive.

iDave · 03-07-2015 7:09am

I'd prefer splitting Dublin in 2 than moving them to Ullster and I'm massively against splitting them in 2.
What would it solve? Instead of walloping Longford, Offaly, Kildare etc they'll wallop Antrim, Down, Derry etc. And the games WILL remain in Croke Park
And I cant see how artificially making Leinster more competitive will solve the deep rooted coaching and structural problems in places like Meath.

JeffKenna · 03-07-2015 9:53am

I'm surprised it's not debated more but I think we should split London in two as well. They have a population of over 8m to choose from. Hardly fair compared to some of the smaller counties with 40/50/60k?

keeponhurling · 03-07-2015 11:22am

JeffKenna wrote: »

I'm surprised it's not debated more but I think we should split London in two as well. They have a population of over 8m to choose from. Hardly fair compared to some of the smaller counties with 40/50/60k?

Don't get me started on the Beijing Gaels or the Delhi Wolfhounds....

keeponhurling · 03-07-2015 11:29am

Just because one team wins a few in a row, doesn't mean structures need to be revamped.
The Dubs have won a few Leinsters, but I also recall Laois, Westmeath, Kildare and Meath winning, with Louth also being robbed of one.
I think Wexford also reached an All-Ireland semi-final.

People said Kilkenny would dominate Leinster hurling forever, but recently Dublin and Galway have both won it.
Going back a bit more Offaly and Wexford were regular winners.

FionnK86 · 03-07-2015 11:30am

Here lads here's a better idea....get better at football?

Hibbeler · 03-07-2015 11:56am

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I think there is more of a chance of Westmeath winning the AI then Meath at this stage.
It was great to see happy Westmeath supporters floating on pure joy leaving croke park. I hope they make some sort of go at it in the final.
Otherwise it could be yet another year where the provincial finals are non-competitive.

Last weekend was Westmeath's All-Ireland and well done to them in fairness. I really do hope that they can give the Leinster final a good lash but can't see them winning. Perhaps a kind rd 4 qualifier draw will see them in an AI Qf and if so I'm sure it will be richly deserved.

However I know in my own heart that Meath are better than the last 20 minutes or so of the game last Sunday would have you believe. We currently have the talent imo to have a strong team in the coming years and will still be best placed in Leinster to challenge Dublin in the future.

Roger_007 · 03-07-2015 12:09pm

freddiek wrote: »

I'd like to see the back of the Provincial football championships. Even in Ulster Donegal are now forging ahead.

Anyone think its days are numbered??

It's surprising that the provincial structure has lasted so long, or was ever adopted by the GAA in the first place. It's totally artificial. The provinces are dominated by a few counties and there are too many meaningless games.
It would make much more sense if the championship was based initially on the current league structure.
The league and the championship should be amalgamated into a single competition with the final league positions being used for the draw for the championship. The top sixteen teams, (currently divisions 1 and 2), would then go on to play on a strict knockout basis, (with a seeded draw), for the Sam Maguire and the rest would play on a strict knockout basis for a secondary cup.
The two finals could be played the same day.
Promotion and relegation to and from the top sixteen for the following year would be based on the final league positions with the winners of the secondary cup also being promoted regardless.

ardmacha · 03-07-2015 1:50pm

Well there was a plan to give the Ulster counties a bigger population to counter Dublin's ridiculous advantage
http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/uk-officials-debated-moving-entire-population-of-hong-kong-to-ireland-684888.html

Nidgeweasel · 03-07-2015 3:00pm

Be some craic if Dublin was split in two and both sides simply ended up in the final every year.

DEFTLEFTHAND · 03-07-2015 3:38pm

Leinster was very competitive in the past and will be again, things move in cycles. This is a great Dub generation, don't punish them for being successful.

nxbyveromdwjpg · 03-07-2015 6:45pm

Nidgeweasel wrote: »

Be some craic if Dublin was split in two and both sides simply ended up in the final every year.

We'd have to split it 4 ways then

cj maxx · 03-07-2015 9:33pm

Nidgeweasel wrote: »

Be some craic if Dublin was split in two and both sides simply ended up in the final every year.

May happen , and best of luck to them but to have 1/3 of the population assigned to 1 team out of 31 ( not counting some) is crazy . I dont advocate chopping and changing all counties depending on population but the discrepancy in population between dublin and other teams is tooo big

gaffer91 · 03-07-2015 9:50pm

The provincial structure is worth keeping, not for the bigger teams but the smaller ones. Teams like Roscommon, Sligo, Louth etc have no hope at winning the All-Ireland and don't care about winning a lower division in the league but a provincial title means the world to the players and the fans.

With regards to Dublin they should absolutely be split in two, if not more. The population advantage they have is absurd. Their dominance since 2005 has already destroyed football in Leinster- who is going to be inspired to play football in any of the other counties when you see all those months of training culminating in a drubbing by Dublin? It's becoming more uncompetitive year on year. With Dublin poised to dominate the All-Ireland series for the forseeable future as well, let's save gaelic football and pre-empt that by splitting Dublin into 2, 3 or even 4 teams to ensure a more level playing field.

ProudDUB · 03-07-2015 9:57pm

gaffer91 wrote: »

The provincial structure is worth keeping, not for the bigger teams but the smaller ones. Teams like Roscommon, Sligo, Louth etc have no hope at winning the All-Ireland and don't care about winning a lower division in the league but a provincial title means the world to the players and the fans.

With regards to Dublin they should absolutely be split in two, if not more. The population advantage they have is absurd. Their dominance since 2005 has already destroyed football in Leinster- who is going to be inspired to play football in any of the other counties when you see all those months of training culminating in a drubbing by Dublin? It's becoming more uncompetitive year on year. With Dublin poised to dominate the All-Ireland series for the forseeable future as well, let's save gaelic football and pre-empt that by splitting Dublin into 2, 3 or even 4 teams to ensure a more level playing field.

Oh FFS !

We have won 3 All Irelands in 30 years. Three ! Lets revisit this argument when we actually HAVE been dominating the All Ireland series for the forseeable past, instead of coming up with all this nonsense based on what people think MAY happen in the future.

Dublin has always had the biggest population, but it has not always translated into All Ireland success. Where was this urgent need to split Dublin into two, when the startled earwigs were getting hammered out the gate by Kerry and Meath back in 2009/10...hmmmm????

cj maxx · 03-07-2015 10:28pm

ProudDUB wrote: »

Oh FFS !

We have won 3 All Irelands in 30 years. Three ! Lets revisit this argument when we actually HAVE been dominating the All Ireland series for the forseeable past, instead of coming up with all nonsense based on what people MAY think will happen in the future.

Dublin has always had the biggest population, but it has not always translated into All Ireland success. Where was this urgent need to split Dublin into two, when the startled earwigs were getting hammered out the gate by Kerry and Meath back in 2009/10...hmmmm????

I can see where your coming from but this idea didnt start because dublin won AI 's .

ProudDUB · 03-07-2015 10:45pm

That's funny, because if I cast my mind back a few years, I don't remember all that many newspaper articles, radio panel discussions or internet forums, banging on about the need to split us up. They were far more interested in constantly going on about how rubbish we were. My, how times have changed ! :rolleyes:

gaffer91 · 03-07-2015 10:47pm

ProudDUB wrote: »

Oh FFS !

We have won 3 All Irelands in 30 years. Three ! Lets revisit this argument when we actually HAVE been dominating the All Ireland series for the forseeable past, instead of coming up with all nonsense based on what people MAY think will happen in the future.

Dublin has always had the biggest population, but it has not always translated into All Ireland success. Where was this urgent need to split Dublin into two, when the startled earwigs were getting hammered out the gate by Kerry and Meath back in 2009/10...hmmmm????

Even if Dublin weren't currently dominating the All-Ireland series they should still be split in two. Both for the sake of gaelic football in Leinster and because they have a massive population advantage. If they have historically failed to take advantage of that advantage that's their own fault and no argument against splitting them. For instance, if a team in the premier league started with a 10 point head-start every year but ultimately never won the league it still wouldn't change the fact they have an unfair advantage.

If you had asked me should Dublin have been split in two in 2010 I'd have said yes then too.

ProudDUB · 03-07-2015 11:05pm

Well Antrim, London and New York all have very large populations too. So let's split them up too, because of their ginormous populations. Makes sense, right? We'll pretend to over look the fact that massive amounts of the people who actually reside in Antrim, London and New York have about as much interest in the GAA, as I do in naked, one armed, blindfold, tiddleywinks competitions.

gaffer91 · 03-07-2015 11:12pm

ProudDUB wrote: »

Well Antrim, London and New York all have very large populations too. So let's split them up too, because their ginormous populations. Makes sense, right? We'll pretend to over look the fact that massive amounts of the people who actually reside in Antrim, London and New York have about as much interest in the GAA, as I do in naked, one armed, blindfold, tiddleywinks competitions.

You're being deliberately obtuse there by pretending there is any similarities between Dublin and the places mentioned. Clearly clutching at straws to try and pretend Dublin don't have an unfair advantage which should be rectified.

LeBash · 03-07-2015 11:23pm

The only reason to split Dublin is to line the pockets of the GAA even further. I don't think there is any will within Dublin to do it.

Plus I'm tired listening to 31 counties giving out about Dublin home advantage while the vast majority of county boards in leinster want it. Please don't add South Dublin to the masses of disgruntled.

ProudDUB · 03-07-2015 11:27pm

I'm not being obtuse at all. There are massive tracts of south county Dublin that are rugby heartland. There are massive tracts of west Dublin/Tallaght where soccer is king. In the area of Glasnevin that I grew up in, none of my neighbours played GAA, or were members of clubs, even though Na Fianna were just down the road. The odd family here and there did, but they were very much in the minority.

It is utter nonsense to think that every single resident of Dublin plays GAA, or is a member of a club and is therefore a part of the never ending convoy of players that we are supposed to have at our disposal. And even if Dublin is broken up, then what? Cork has a population of over 500,000. That is more than the population of several midlands counties combined. Doesn't that give them an unfair advantage too? When are they going to be broken up? The whole thing is just stupid.

listermint · 03-07-2015 11:28pm

gaffer91 wrote: »

Even if Dublin weren't currently dominating the All-Ireland series they should still be split in two. Both for the sake of gaelic football in Leinster and because they have a massive population advantage. If they have historically failed to take advantage of that advantage that's their own fault and no argument against splitting them. For instance, if a team in the premier league started with a 10 point head-start every year but ultimately never won the league it still wouldn't change the fact they have an unfair advantage.

If you had asked me should Dublin have been split in two in 2010 I'd have said yes then too.

That argument would stack up if

A)everyone in Dublin was in to GAA and it didnt have a ridiculous amount of other sports to contend with not to mention non sports activities

Kilkenny has some mad population advantage that we are not seeing

This argument is a ball of ****e every time I hear it

listermint · 03-07-2015 11:30pm

gaffer91 wrote: »

You're being deliberately obtuse there by pretending there is any similarities between Dublin and the places mentioned. Clearly clutching at straws to try and pretend Dublin don't have an unfair advantage which should be rectified.

Ever hear someone cry out 'pony' when you start talking ?

This post may be the source

gaffer91 · 03-07-2015 11:43pm

LeBash wrote: »

The only reason to split Dublin is to line the pockets of the GAA even further.

No it's to keep gaelic football interesting and competitive and viable as a sport.

LeBash wrote: »

I don't think there is any will within Dublin to do it.

Of course there isn't, the current unfairness benefits Dublin massively.

ProudDUB wrote: »

I'm not being obtuse at all. There are massive tracts of south county Dublin that are rugby heartland. There are massive tracts of west Dublin/Tallaght where soccer is king. In the area of Glasnevin that I grew up in, none of my neighbours played GAA, or were members of clubs, even though Na Fianna were just down the road. The odd family here and there did, but they were very much in the minority.

It is utter nonsense to think that every single resident of Dublin plays GAA, or is a member of a club and is therefore a part of the never ending convoy of players that we are supposed to have at our disposal. And even if Dublin is broken up, then what? Cork has a population of over 500,000. That is more than the population of several midlands counties combined. Doesn't that give them an unfair advantage too? When are they going to be broken up? The whole thing is just stupid.

This tired old argument is always trotted out. There are large parts of Cork where people only play hurling. Ditto with parts of Limerick and rugby. Soccer is popular all over the country. Dubs seem to think they're the only county where people play more sports than gaelic football. Newsflash- that isn't the case.

listermint wrote: »

That argument would stack up if

A)everyone in Dublin was in to GAA and it didnt have a ridiculous amount of other sports to contend with not to mention non sports activities

Kilkenny has some mad population advantage that we are not seeing

This argument is a ball of ****e every time I hear it

See above re "Other sports are popular in Dublin too!" argument.

Try to take this on board- just because the Dubs haven't won the All Ireland every year since 1950 doesn't mean they don't have an unfair population advantage. See the argument I made earlier regarding a premier league team having a 10 point bonus every year.

K-9 · 04-07-2015 4:55pm

The solution is making Leinster more competitive, or else a radical overhaul of the system.

Ulster doesn't need tinkering. It's a bit like Munster in hurling, concentrate on ways of making the rest competitive, or else go an open draw format.

K-9 · 04-07-2015 5:00pm

ProudDUB wrote: »

That's funny, because if I cast my mind back a few years, I don't remember all that many newspaper articles, radio panel discussions or internet forums, banging on about the need to split us up. They were far more interested in constantly going on about how rubbish we were. My, how times have changed ! :rolleyes:

The splitting up Dublin idea came before you won the AI in 2011 IIRC, so I don't think your point is valid in that respect.

listermint · 04-07-2015 9:53pm

gaffer91 wrote: »

No it's to keep gaelic football interesting and competitive and viable as a sport.

Of course there isn't, the current unfairness benefits Dublin massively.

This tired old argument is always trotted out. There are large parts of Cork where people only play hurling. Ditto with parts of Limerick and rugby. Soccer is popular all over the country. Dubs seem to think they're the only county where people play more sports than gaelic football. Newsflash- that isn't the case.

See above re "Other sports are popular in Dublin too!" argument.

Try to take this on board- just because the Dubs haven't won the All Ireland every year since 1950 doesn't mean they don't have an unfair population advantage. See the argument I made earlier regarding a premier league team having a 10 point bonus every year.

Your entire argument is trite.should we move Kilkenny out of Leinster because they are decimating the province ?

It's such an idiotic argument everytime I hear it .you should be extremely embarrassed to even raise it. Extremely.

What about moving the Dublin Footballers to Ulster

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