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So is prostitution to be outlawed in Ireland or what?

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    #212
    paleoperson
    Registered Users Posts: 3,522 ✭✭✭paleoperson


    nokia69 wrote: »
    yeah you can

    Oh my god, this is way too stupid for me to answer. It takes a low threshold for me to respond to something online but this is way below it.


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    #213
    One eyed Jack
    Registered Users Posts: 23,695 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    Azalea wrote: »
    I really agree. Even if it's made illegal, it will continue - and imagine the awful stuff that could go on within it then...


    The awful stuff that goes on within it now even though it is legalised and regulated in other countries still goes on, and I agree would likely to continue to go on when the Swedish model is introduced. There are plenty of illegal activities that still continue in spite of the fact that they are illegal, and that doesn't mean we legislate for those activities simply because previous attempts to prevent the harm they cause to a society have proven ineffective.

    Introducing legislation to criminalise buyers, in it's own right, will be just as ineffective, without other support structures in place such as more opportunities for education and alternative employment for people before they feel they have no alternative but to enter the sex industry.

    The aim is to improve society, not have us regress to the last century where sex was commoditised because of a perception that it was "impure" and "taboo".


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    #214
    Cienciano
    Registered Users Posts: 14,248 ✭✭✭✭Cienciano


    Doesn't matter what laws are brought in, we'll have the exact same amount of prostitutes and customers. Peoples desire to have sex won't go away and there'll always be someone willing to meet that demand


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    #215
    nokia69
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,050 ✭✭✭nokia69


    paleoperson wrote: »
    Oh my god, this is way too stupid for me to answer. It takes a low threshold for me to respond to something online but this is way below it.

    look if a server is based in another country then the Irish government have zero chance of closing it down

    they can try but they will fail


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    #216
    nokia69
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,050 ✭✭✭nokia69


    I'm still waiting for Jackies definition of consent

    I think I asked 3 times now


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    #217
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    One eyed Jack wrote: »
    The aim is to improve society

    We share this aim. Perhaps if you answer the first question I asked you on this thread - we might enter into a discourse on how best to achieve our shared aim.


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    #218
    paleoperson
    Registered Users Posts: 3,522 ✭✭✭paleoperson


    nokia69 wrote: »
    look if a server is based in another country then the Irish government have zero chance of closing it down

    they can try but they will fail

    Capitalize your damn sentences please. And you're completely wrong.


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    #219
    riclad
    Registered Users Posts: 8,184 ✭✭✭riclad


    So we hardly have the gardai to help people who are mugged ,or people in rural area,s getting robbed .
    many farms are getting robbed of tractors ,trailers misc machinery .
    And theres gangs attacking people in rural area.s But thats ok, cos some where there s a few gardai ,
    who are busy stopping adults from paying other adults to have sex.
    I heard on the radio if theres 2 or 3 women in an apartment ,
    they might be arrested for running a brothel under this new law.
    I much prefer that the gardai concentrate on stopping drug dealers and muggers and other violent criminals than waste time stopping some single bloke who wants to pay
    a woman for having sex .


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    #220
    nokia69
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,050 ✭✭✭nokia69


    paleoperson wrote: »
    Capitalize your damn sentences please. And you're completely wrong.

    right so, good luck closing down the internet

    if they could close it down they would have done it by now

    after that they can stop people downloading movies, music, and of course cars


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    #221
    mynameis905
    Closed Accounts Posts: 754 ✭✭✭mynameis905


    Azalea wrote: »
    I really agree. Even if it's made illegal, it will continue - and imagine the awful stuff that could go on within it then...

    +1

    People have been drinking, taking drugs, gambling and engaging in prostitution for thousands of years and they're not going to stop any time soon. Criminalising any from of 'vice' is only going to drive it further underground and put sex workers in a more precarious position that they are already in.

    The problem with the likes of Ruhama is that they have a religious & moral objection to prostitution but they're smart enough to realise that lobbying the government on this basis isn't going to work. Just like Iona did with the subject of adoption during the last referendum, they try to obfuscate the issue at hand by bringing human trafficking into it and claiming that all prostitutes are trafficked and coerced despite not having any real statistics that actually back it up. We already have stringent anti-trafficking laws so I cannot see how this new law is in any way needed.

    Decriminalisation is the best model to minimize any potential harm that prostitution may cause to those involved. Unfortunately none of the political parties in Ireland is going to back that as it would be political suicide to do so.


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    #222
    One eyed Jack
    Registered Users Posts: 23,695 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    I have no idea. That is the point of a question. I asked you a question. You did not answer it then. You have not answered it now. And I have a sinking feeling you are not likely to answer it any time soon.

    So what can you say? No idea? Try answering the question? That would be my advice. Just this once?



    Yea you tried this cop out on another thread but it was equally irrelevant there. It has nothing to do with what kind of person YOU are or what kind of person I am. The fact is you claimed that: "Good thing they're not outlawing anything for morality reasons then, but for reality reasons"

    And the only thing I did was to call you on that and simply ask what those reasons where. And all of a sudden I get this complete smoke screen response of how conversation is suddenly pointless because of how different we are.

    This ploy you have is only going to work for so long. At some point people are going to start to get hip to the fact that you are just throwing out nonsense and then just doing fire control to get out of it later.


    I believe this answers your question tax -

    One eyed Jack wrote: »
    Quite simply, I've seen enough lives destroyed, I've seen enough people destroyed, in the sex industry to motivate me to actively campaign against prostitution in society.

    You may not agree that I have a point, but then you haven't shared my personal perspective either, and so I understand why you would oppose any such measures.


    That's as best I can do I'm afraid. If that answer doesn't suit you at this point, there's nothing further I can do for you.


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    #223
    NachoBusiness
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,389 ✭✭✭NachoBusiness


    The only way to get rid of prostitution would be to ensure than 90% of babies born in the world are female.

    Do that and within two generations prostitution will have died out as there will be no further demand for it.


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    #224
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    One eyed Jack wrote: »
    I believe this answers your question tax -

    No. Not at all. Even a little. Perhaps you forgot what the question was? The first one I mean - the one you did not even bother responding to at the time.
    One eyed Jack wrote: »
    That's as best I can do I'm afraid.

    Here we find quite a lot of agreement I fear.


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    #225
    One eyed Jack
    Registered Users Posts: 23,695 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    NachoBusiness wrote: »
    The only way to get rid of prostitution would be to ensure than 90% of babies born in the world are female.

    Do that and within two generations prostitution will have died out as there will be no further demand for it.


    I wouldn't be too sure about that Nacho tbh :p


    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/gigolo-girls-offer-safe-encounters-with-lesbian-love-1248127.html


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    #226
    One eyed Jack
    Registered Users Posts: 23,695 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    No. Not at all. Even a little. Perhaps you forgot what the question was? The first one I mean - the one you did not even bother responding to at the time.


    Perhaps I just don't care any more.

    Here we find quite a lot of agreement I fear.


    Excellent, we finally agree on something.


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    #227
    nokia69
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,050 ✭✭✭nokia69


    and still I wait for Jackies definition of consent

    come on jackie it can't be that hard, give it a go

    make us all laugh


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    #228
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    One eyed Jack wrote: »
    Perhaps I just don't care any more. Excellent, we finally agree on something.

    What do you mean "any more"? You ignored my question from the start. It was a simple question too. I can make it simpler if you need?


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    #229
    nokia69
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,050 ✭✭✭nokia69


    Deleted User wrote: »
    What do you mean "any more"? You ignored my question from the start. It was a simple question too. I can make it simpler if you need?

    and she is now ignoring my simple question

    its what Jackie does TBF


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    #230
    One eyed Jack
    Registered Users Posts: 23,695 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    nokia69 wrote: »
    and still I wait for Jackies definition of consent

    come on jackie it can't be that hard, give it a go

    make us all laugh


    You're presenting a fundamentally flawed scenario because the parties are engaged in an illegal activity, and by your own admission, consent is irrelevant in that scenario. I have given you the definition of consent (which is free will to engage in sexual intercourse), and you outright refuse to accept that definition because you're ignoring the fact that two adults engaged in consensual sex is not even in the same ball park as prostitution which is the offer of money in exchange for sex or vice versa.

    You may laugh now, but don't expect your whinging about "de feminists" to be entertained when the legislation is introduced and the first arrests are made. Because I have no doubt you will be among the first to whinge about the unfairness of it all on those poor, poor men (won't hear a peep out of you if it's a woman is arrested and charged though, or maybe you will gloat, who knows?).


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    #231
    One eyed Jack
    Registered Users Posts: 23,695 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    What do you mean "any more"? You ignored my question from the start. It was a simple question too. I can make it simpler if you need?


    When I say "any more", I mean I had given up any hope of us ever seeing eye to eye on anything, and it was for that reason that I chose not to waste your time. I don't need you to make the question any simpler. I think you'd only continue to waste your time and that's very unfair to you, from my perspective at least. I don't see any point in either of us engaging when we are unlikely ever to see eye to eye on any discussion we enter into, so perhaps it's best for both our sanities if we just leave it at that.


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    #232
    nokia69
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,050 ✭✭✭nokia69


    One eyed Jack wrote: »
    You're presenting a fundamentally flawed scenario because the parties are engaged in an illegal activity

    no Jackie its NOT illegal as well you know, this has been pointed out time and time again
    One eyed Jack wrote: »
    and by your own admission, consent is irrelevant in that scenario

    for the new law consent is irrelevant, true

    I think it was me who pointed this out to you

    One eyed Jack wrote: »
    I have given you the definition of consent (which is free will to engage in sexual intercourse), and you outright refuse to accept that definition because you're ignoring the fact that two adults engaged in consensual sex is not even in the same ball park as prostitution which is the offer of money in exchange for sex or vice versa.

    up untill now you never gave a definition of consent, and to be honest I can't really see one above, so as simple as possible give me a definition of consent
    One eyed Jack wrote: »
    You may laugh now, but don't expect your whinging about "de feminists" to be entertained when the legislation is introduced and the first arrests are made.
    Because I have no doubt you will be among the first to whinge about the unfairness of it all on those poor, poor men (won't hear a peep out of you if it's a woman is arrested and charged though, or maybe you will gloat, who knows?).

    so much hate for men, sad really

    ha ha, there is zero chance of a women being arrested or charged, but I would still feel the same way, if two adults have consensual sex I really can't see how one of them is a sex offender, but the other walks free

    I'm not gay, but I think the anti gay laws we had in the past were very wrong and are very similar the the new laws, the government simply has no business in the bedrooms of consenting adults


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    #233
    nokia69
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,050 ✭✭✭nokia69


    jackie, below is my definition of consent, please supply your version of the same



    CONSENT

    permission for something to happen or to give agreement to do something


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    #234
    paleoperson
    Registered Users Posts: 3,522 ✭✭✭paleoperson


    Jackie is making me laugh lol... :pac:


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    #235
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    One eyed Jack wrote: »
    When I say "any more", I mean I had given up any hope of us ever seeing eye to eye on anything,

    Ah, so you are just making this personal in other words!

    I am not trying to make this personal here. I asked YOU a question on THIS THREAD - and you have not answered it yet - but now you are getting all personal on me to try to excuse the fact you are not answering it yet.


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    #236
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    One eyed Jack wrote: »
    Good thing they're not outlawing anything for morality reasons then, but for reality reasons
    Deleted User wrote: »
    Do tell - what are the reality based arguments suggesting that outlawing the sale of sex by a consenting adult - to another consenting adult - is a good thing to do?

    Any time you want to answer the post you ignored - - I am here for you.


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    #237
    Crossubrigs
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 19 ✭Crossubrigs


    One eyed Jack wrote: »
    What can I say tax? I just don't know what to say to you because you appear to ascribe all sorts of motives and to be frank, it just isn't worth the engagement as we're likely to go nowhere.

    I think it'd be both a waste of your time, and my time, to even try and have a discussion on any issue tbh as we're two very different people.

    You can answer the simple questions being put to you, if you can't answer the question while maintaining your position then perhaps you should consider reassessing your position.


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    #238
    Crossubrigs
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 19 ✭Crossubrigs


    We're all waiting for your answer One Eyed Jack.

    What are the reality based reasons that the sale of sex should be outlawed for?


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    #239
    Cienciano
    Registered Users Posts: 14,248 ✭✭✭✭Cienciano


    The problem is that sex is involved so lots of people cannot get their head around the face that its not a big deal for a lot of people and they want to impose their own morals on the entire population.
    One night stands when either party has had more than 2 drinks would be banned by some of these crowds if they thought they could get away with it. Some would ban them outright


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    #240
    Mister Vain
    Registered Users Posts: 6,045 ✭✭✭Mister Vain


    One eyed Jack wrote: »
    You keep ignoring the fact that the other person is only engaged in sexual activity because they are being paid to do so. Therefore, it is coerced, not consensual.

    If a person chooses to become a sex worker of their own free will and are happy to do so and are not breaking the law, then where does the coercion come into it? If I give a broke student some money to help with her bills and then later we have sex, is she coerced?


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    #241
    Avatar MIA
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,750 ✭✭✭Avatar MIA


    Mister Vain wrote: »
    If I give a broke student some money to help with her bills and then later we have sex, is she coerced?

    No. Taking advantage is the term that comes to mind. Ungentlemanly is another.


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