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Preview of REAL Digital EPG

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    #32
    Tony
    Registered Users Posts: 11,325 ✭✭✭✭Tony


    Red Alert wrote: »
    Iand Sky at reasonable enough prices.

    Thats the first time i've heard that view and i've been here a while.

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    #33
    NewHillel
    Registered Users Posts: 736 ✭✭✭NewHillel


    Tony wrote: »
    Thats the first time i've heard that view and i've been here a while.

    Obviously, some postgraduates are in strong demand. :D


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    #34
    Minstrel27
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,818 ✭✭✭Minstrel27


    Red Alert wrote: »
    and Sky at reasonable enough prices.

    Sky is an absolute rip off


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    #35
    watty
    Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    The Empire is evil and Sky is overpriced.

    But a "Real Digital" run by the boss of Rapture TV isn't viable competition. UPC on Satellite would be (they do have satellite services in other countries), or Canal+. Someone established with a track record of successfully running a business and realistic view of costs.

    At the end of the day all that Real Digital can offer is a cheaper route to Sky Sports. Sky can offer such a standalone P.A.Y.G. package at same price and lower operational costs.


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    #36
    galtee boy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,490 ✭✭✭galtee boy


    [
    At the end of the day all that Real Digital can offer is a cheaper route to Sky Sports. Sky can offer such a standalone P.A.Y.G. package at same price and lower operational costs.[/QUOTE]

    Surely, a system which would have all Irish and British terrestrial channels on one Epg for a small annual charge for a card ( admittedly we don't know what the charge will be yet ) is worth something ? I don't know much about Real Digital apart from what I read here, but is it not worth giving them the benefit of the doubt and waiting to see what they come up with ? If as you seem to think, it will all go pear shaped after 12 months, so what ? it won't make any difference to us as consumers, we either go back to, or continue with, a combination of Sky, Freesat, Saorview or UPC.


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    #37
    John mac
    Registered Users Posts: 5,112 ✭✭✭John mac


    galtee boy wrote: »
    If as you seem to think, it will all go pear shaped after 12 months, so what ? it won't make any difference to us as consumers, we either go back to, or continue with, a combination of Sky, Freesat, Saorview or UPC.

    except you would have forked out for a new stb.

    no news as to how much the box will cost yet though.


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    #38
    watty
    Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    A Proprietary box which will be as good as a Lidl one for Freesat (i.e. pretty terrible) and no good for Sky.


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    #39
    rlogue
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,035 ✭✭✭rlogue


    (unnecessary comment removed)

    Real is not a threat to Saorview or Saorsat either. I have a lot of respect for the depth and breadth of your technical knowledge but on Real Digital you appear to have a personal grudge against it.

    The Real boxes will provide a full 7 day EPG for the Freesat channels along with full Red Button functionality. They will be Ethernet connected which will allow access to online services so in the UK could work on iPlayer and on You Tube etc.

    The Irish channels will be there for Irish subscribers once carriage is agreed and of course Sky Sports 1&2.


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    #40
    rlogue
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,035 ✭✭✭rlogue


    watty wrote: »
    A Proprietary box which will be as good as a Lidl one for Freesat (i.e. pretty terrible) and no good for Sky.

    That is an unfair comment. As said earlier a lot of functionality will be in the boxes, far more than Freesat or Sky. Proprietary yes but far more flexible than the proprietary Sky boxes.

    A Sky card won't work in them but why should they?


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    #41
    skydish79
    Registered Users Posts: 839 ✭✭✭skydish79


    If real are able to offer only sky sports 1 and 2

    Will sky start moving some of the matches to sky sports 3 and 4?

    Is the real digital box going to be available for start of the premiership

    Only thing that putting me off is cost of the box, if its €200 especially cos they are no guarantees the company will be around in 2 , 5 years time


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    #42
    Minstrel27
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,818 ✭✭✭Minstrel27


    skydish79 wrote: »
    If real are able to offer only sky sports 1 and 2

    Will sky start moving some of the matches to sky sports 3 and 4?

    They are not allowed to do this. Obviously some events will be on Sky Sports 3 and 4 but they will have already been there, a Champions League match, SPL etc. etc. The Premier League will remain on SS1 and 2


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    #43
    copacetic
    Subscribers Posts: 16,569 ✭✭✭✭copacetic


    Red Alert wrote: »
    I can't imagine Sky are too happy about their EPG being re-used if that's what's happening. Why would you choose REAL anyway - you already have FreeSat for no charge, and Sky at reasonable enough prices. How is REAL going to be better or cheaper than Sky?

    Hard to see why anyone would, signing up to pay per month for 95% FTA channels seems a bit crazy.

    All they seem to offer over a freesat/dtt combo box (like the current one with the thread on terrestrial for €70) is sky sports 1 and 2. No 3 or 4, no espn, no setanta, eurosport etc. Maybe they are planning to try and sign them up too?

    So pretty limited sports coverage for a sports fan anyway.

    Maybe in a year or 2 if they actually launch and are still around and actually have the Irish channels they will be worth looking at?


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    #44
    Macy0161
    Registered Users Posts: 9,320 ✭✭✭Macy0161


    foggers wrote: »
    is that cause they see it as a threat to their plans for saorsat?
    Saorsat is an infill for saorview - nothing more, nothing less. There's an anti saorsat sentiment because it isn't the solution to a different issue (Irish programming in the UK). Real Digital is no more a threat to saorsat or saorview as any other pay platform.

    As others have mentioned, I'm not sure Sky Sports 1&2 will be enough for consumers. Well it could be, but hard to see them being viable at the price point they'd need. Also, has there been a final ruling on Sky not being let set the wholesale price for those channels yet?

    It's going to be a hard sell in the current climate - you can see on the terrestrial board how popular the combo's are. Is epg and sky sports 1 & 2 enough to put people back into the pay tv market? Personally they'd need to add at least eurosport and setanta as well for me to even think about it. I'd also be looking that the receivers will still function as a FTA receiver if it all went tits up.


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    #45
    Carter P Fly
    Registered Users Posts: 618 ✭✭✭Carter P Fly


    I see no appeal to the real digital offering and if I was a sports fan I'd just get the sky package. Just beacuse its cheaper doesnt in anyway mean its better value from what I can see.


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    #46
    Tony
    Registered Users Posts: 11,325 ✭✭✭✭Tony


    Carter P Fly wrote: »
    Just beacuse its cheaper doesnt in anyway mean its better value from what I can see.

    The same content at a cheaper price ? How can it not be better value ?

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    #47
    Minstrel27
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,818 ✭✭✭Minstrel27


    Carter P Fly wrote: »
    Just beacuse its cheaper doesnt in anyway mean its better value from what I can see.

    You are going to have to explain this one for me.


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    #48
    Vince Cable
    Closed Accounts Posts: 272 ✭✭Vince Cable


    Macy0161 wrote: »
    Saorsat is an infill for saorview - nothing more, nothing less.

    Is that set in stone (or law)? Can't see RTE or whoever wasting opportunities that present themselves with this interesting new tech.


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    #49
    Johnmb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,150 ✭✭✭Johnmb


    Tony wrote: »
    The same content at a cheaper price ? How can it not be better value ?
    Minstrel27 wrote: »
    You are going to have to explain this one for me.
    I think his point is that it's not actually the same content. From what I've seen, only Sky Sports 1&2 are being mentioned. That is not the same content as offered by Sky, it is much less content. Of course it's going to be cheaper, it's much less content, it has to be less costly. As to whether or not it will represent better value, that will be a simple calculation. If it shows (say) 75% less content than a particular Sky package, if it is more than 75% cheaper, then it is better value, if it is 75% cheaper then it is the same value, and if it is less than 75% cheaper then is is poorer value than Sky.


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    #50
    Macy0161
    Registered Users Posts: 9,320 ✭✭✭Macy0161


    Vince Cable wrote: »
    Is that set in stone (or law)? Can't see RTE or whoever wasting opportunities that present themselves with this interesting new tech.
    It's all the noise so far from RTE anyway. It's a back up for the saorview network, and a cost effective solution for places that can't get a saorview signal. I'm sure it's all there in the sticky.

    I really don't see what RTE have to gain by scuppering Real Digital. Not to say they don't have other reasons.


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    #51
    rlogue
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,035 ✭✭✭rlogue


    It's a chicken and egg situation. RTE appear to be blocking or at least refusing to get in contact with Real Digital and Real Digital legally can't launch in Ireland as an Irish platform unless RTE are on it as far as I know.

    Saorsat is intended for the 15,000 or so people who will not get Saorview after ASO in 2012. So there is no obvious commercial reason why RTE might (and there is no public indication so far that they have actually said this) see Real Digital as a threat to Saorview and Saorsat.

    As I said earlier, I would be appalled if RTE did see Real as a threat to Saorview. Are RTE hoping to launch their own pay platform on the back of Saorview?


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    #52
    Carter P Fly
    Registered Users Posts: 618 ✭✭✭Carter P Fly


    Johnmb wrote: »
    I think his point is that it's not actually the same content. From what I've seen, only Sky Sports 1&2 are being mentioned. That is not the same content as offered by Sky, it is much less content. Of course it's going to be cheaper, it's much less content, it has to be less costly. As to whether or not it will represent better value, that will be a simple calculation. If it shows (say) 75% less content than a particular Sky package, if it is more than 75% cheaper, then it is better value, if it is 75% cheaper then it is the same value, and if it is less than 75% cheaper then is is poorer value than Sky.

    That's exactly what I meant and better explained that I would have.

    I work it out that at about 15 euro a month for sky sports 1 and 2 plus FTA and 7 day epg is of equel value to sky for the same services.


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    #53
    Macy0161
    Registered Users Posts: 9,320 ✭✭✭Macy0161


    rlogue wrote: »
    As I said earlier, I would be appalled if RTE did see Real as a threat to Saorview. Are RTE hoping to launch their own pay platform on the back of Saorview?
    I could well be wrong (I don't have one yet!), but I don't think the approved STB's/ TV's even have a CAM slot for pay TV. Real Digital would hardly be the main competition anyway, given the penetration of Sky and UPC.

    The BAI tried and failed to get a commercial partner for Irish DTT - it's the reason it's taken so long. There's no sign of them running another competition, and no sign it would be any more viable now than it was then. So whatever the reason for supposed RTE issues, I doubt that's it.


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    #54
    watty
    Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    rlogue wrote: »
    It's a chicken and egg situation. RTE appear to be blocking or at least refusing to get in contact with Real Digital and Real Digital legally can't launch in Ireland as an Irish platform unless RTE are on it as far as I know.

    Nonsense.

    Since Real Digital haven't launched ANYWHERE, RTE doesn't need to talk to them.

    ANYONE can launch here without RTE. Sky did. Twice.
    Then AFTER they have launched and proven they are not going to flog loads of Irish cards in London (even by "accident") and have secure Encryption, they can carry RTE. At their own expense of course.

    Before Real Digital have a service what is there to talk about? Real Digital have to carry it, encrypt it and cover all the costs. It's up to Real Digital to put their money where their mouth is and start selling live working Sky Sports PAYG subs and boxes here in Ireland. Sky did it for ages before that had RTE on board.

    If Real Digital are doing that, then I'm prepared to take them seriously. But until then it sounds like typical "Rapture TV" Whinging and we have no evidence there is a problem at all.

    It's trivial to get an Ofcom Satellite & EPG licence. I could do it. But I'd not expect RTE to take me seriously until I'd launched unless my name was Canal+ or something.


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    #55
    rlogue
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,035 ✭✭✭rlogue


    That was a most Jesuitical response Watty!!

    Back when Sky launched in Ireland there was no legislation covering digtial TV platforms in Ireland. Therefore Sky approached RTE with a commercially attractive proposition and launched.

    There was no Saorview then and RTE were running occasional digital TV tests.

    The situation is different now. The LAW states that any platform operator must carry the public service channels. But what happens if an operator doesn't get a response from the largest semi-state broadcaster as to carrying it's channels? It would not be the first time RTE have ignored a legal requirement in the Broadcasting Acts...

    Do you have some kind of link to RTE Watty? Is what you are saying RTE policy or is it simply what you think?


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    #56
    rlogue
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,035 ✭✭✭rlogue


    And why would TV3 and TG4 talk to Real about carriage and RTE wouldn't? I have read the Broadcasting Acts and can't see any exemptions regarding RTE.


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    #57
    copacetic
    Subscribers Posts: 16,569 ✭✭✭✭copacetic


    rlogue wrote: »
    And why would TV3 and TG4 talk to Real about carriage and RTE wouldn't? I have read the Broadcasting Acts and can't see any exemptions regarding RTE.

    Personally I don't believe this, have you any thing at all to back it up? Or the comment earlier about a BAI complaint having been made?


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    #58
    rlogue
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,035 ✭✭✭rlogue


    copacetic wrote: »
    Personally I don't believe this, have you any thing at all to back it up? Or the comment earlier about a BAI complaint having been made?

    I've been told directly by Real Digital that they have met with TV3 and TG4 and about the complaint. Are you accusing me of lying?


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    #59
    watty
    Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    rlogue wrote: »
    T

    The situation is different now. The LAW states that any platform operator must carry the public service channels. But what happens if an operator doesn't get a response from the largest semi-state broadcaster as to carrying it's channels? It would not be the first time RTE have ignored a legal requirement in the Broadcasting Acts...

    Do you have some kind of link to RTE Watty? Is what you are saying RTE policy or is it simply what you think?

    But so far Real Digital are not a Platform Operator. They are a Potential operator.

    We don't know for sure what Real Digital has done or said or been told. No-one is impunging your honesty, but you are not a Real Digital Spokesman and if you were you'd be be suspect given the track record of certain people.

    My "opinion" is that no-one in Ireland is legally obliged to do anything until Real Digital is actually broadcasting their own encrypted PAYG and selling it here.

    Also RTE has track record of being totally opaque and don't even tell their own people what they are doing.

    Conclusions
    We have only 3rd hand report of Real Digital's view of the matter.
    RTE never tells anyone anything anyway.
    Until Real Digital is selling a Package here they are not an Irish Provider.
    No grounds for complaint unless RTE doesn't "provide" after Real Digital commences.
    Real Digital has to prove they are a Secure Irish Provider within meaning of the act.
    All RTE has to do is issue a letter giving permission for Encrypted Rebroadcast. No "discussions" or "negotiations" are required. After that it's up to Real Digital.
    At present RTE, TV3 and TG4 are not obligated to do anything. If TV3 and TG4 want to "talk" to Real Digital that's fine.


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    #60
    STB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,178 ✭✭✭STB


    rlogue wrote: »
    And why would TV3 and TG4 talk to Real about carriage and RTE wouldn't? I have read the Broadcasting Acts and can't see any exemptions regarding RTE.

    Perhaps RTE didnt consider Real to be an appropriate network that is available for reception in an intelligible form at this time (Section 77 of said Act). Certainly RTE have a lot on their plate with free to air ASO/DSO. Also I would imagine that the Minister for Comms might have something to say about possible added confusion to an already confused general public at this time given that people are getting to grips with digital terrestrial in Saorview and will also be bamboozled with Saorsat fairly soon.

    Besides the screenshot taken by the MD of Real off his TV set (yes that didnt pass me by!), do you have any other information about what exactly Real are offering ? I see they are asking for money for EPG positioning yet claim to have hundreds of channels ? How exactly will that ever work ? What if they dont pay ? What if they dont give permission full stop ?

    Again dont get me wrong from the scant detail available it would only seem to me to be a repackaging of FTA channels with a possible middle ground price profit for the 2 Sky Channels under Ofcoms Wholesale must offer ? Also who is the EPG provider and how will that work?

    Also wont Sky have a problem with Conax encryption ?

    Dont get me wrong I welcome legitimate competition in the satellite sports market and do dislike the Sky view (and stranglehold) of being the only show in town attitude. I do wonder is it bad timing for Joe Public right now to be confused by yet another "digital" offering.


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    #61
    byte
    Moderators, Regional North West Moderators Posts: 19,101 Mod ✭✭✭✭byte
    byte


    From Real's Facebook page in a reply 11 hours ago...
    REAL Digital TV Brendan, we would have loved to have launched in Ireland at the same time but for over a year now RTE has refused to supply the RTE channels on a fair basis. Other Irish channels have been more than happy to launch on REAL Digital. REAL Digital will launch in Ireland as soon as the issue with RTE has been resolved. We understand the BAI is investigating the RTE issue.


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