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Wexford has a bigger population than Waterford

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    #32
    dayshah
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,542 ✭✭✭dayshah


    fuzzy dunlop wrote: »
    Where people commute to doesn't matter a damn when it comes to getting specialist services. If the same things they need are on offer in Waterford then they will chose Waterford for the ease of access.Even if they don't 90% of the region will.

    Gravity effects mean that people are attracted to larger areas. Take universities for example.
    fuzzy dunlop wrote: »
    I know plenty of Carlow people and they have no adverse reaction to WIT being upgraded.

    Carlow is halfway between Dublin and Waterford, so sure they have no reason to be against WIT upgrading. But does that mean they would actively campaign for it? No. Gravity effects mean that even if we had a university here the bulk of Carlow students would still be attracted to Dublin. Dublin has greater mass. Economies of scale mean that they are more likely to find the course they exactly want, as well as being attracted to the bright lights of Dublin, already have friends/family working there, etc etc. This holds for specialist medical services also. Waterford's advantage is the exact opposite to what you think it is. Because we are a relatively low density area we can offer students things like cheaper rents.

    fuzzy dunlop wrote: »
    BTW here are the up to date sources (Page. 20) Depressing reading for you as it shows the South East is closing the already miniscule population density gap with the South West.

    http://cso.ie/census/documents/Amended%20census2006_%20Volume%201%20Pop%20Classified%20by%20Area.pdf
    These are '06 figures. Have you even looked at the 2011 population density map I referred to?

    County Cork alone has a larger, denser, and more concentrated population than the entire South-East region. Sure tagging on mountainous Kerry (which also has a population above Waterford's) lowers the overall density, but increases the population of that area. Tagging on Kerry makes sense in that case because Cork is the nearest big city (though parts of North Kerry might find it better to go to Limerick). So the South East is nowhere near as important as the South West.


    fuzzy dunlop wrote: »
    I don't have to persuade 162 TD's. 162 TD's were never needed to make anything happen in this country. All you need is a large enough block. In any case your the one going to great lenghts to fight someone else's corner and thus convincing me of something despite not posting one iota of evidence.Strange that

    The South East region has 17 TDs, but as I already stated, many of them aren't even interested in Waterford as a regional centre as they are just as close to Dublin. Much of the population growth since 2006 is because places like Gorey are in Dublin's commuter belt, not ours.

    Our politicians are there to represent our area, just as politicians for other areas represent theirs. If a local politician were to make a case for some service based on your grossly flawed analysis, it wont be long before a politician from some other area picks them up on it. This just weakens the case for Waterford. Instead when we want something for Waterford we have to make the case that it is good for the country.

    Waterford is not some major city, and the South East is not a major region. We shouldn't be worried for this. A proper spatial strategy would be good for the whole country, and services for Waterford could get support in that context. However a spatial strategy must first acknowledge that Waterford is relatively low density, and it is this low density which means we have plenty of room for growth, taking some congestion away from Dublin.


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    #33
    Chiparus
    Registered Users Posts: 2,254 ✭✭✭Chiparus


    Waterford is a bit of a dump compared to other towns in the region. Wexford, clonmel and Kilkenny are far nicer places to visit or live in.

    No one wants to come to waterford to visit, its the southern version of Dundalk.


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    #34
    merlante
    Registered Users Posts: 2,272 ✭✭✭merlante


    Chiparus wrote: »
    Waterford is a bit of a dump compared to other towns in the region. Wexford, clonmel and Kilkenny are far nicer places to visit or live in.

    No one wants to come to waterford to visit, its the southern version of Dundalk.

    That's why Waterford will probably emerge as the fastest growing city in Ireland once the full city plus suburbs figure comes out in April next year. ;)

    Waterford is coming on in leaps and bounds recently and always had a great quality of life when you take into account the amount of places to go and things to do in the area.


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    #35
    merlante
    Registered Users Posts: 2,272 ✭✭✭merlante


    To those arguing about the 'gravity' that Waterford may or may not exert on other parts of the region, you might want to check out figures released by the HEA (here), particularly "IoT (and Uni) Sector County of permanent residence of FT students residing in Ireland by gender", i.e. where students from various counties go to college.

    Carlow sends nearly twice the number of students to WIT than to Trinity, DCU or NUIM, and almost as many as it send to UCD. Comparing like with like, it also sends twice the number of students to WIT as it send to DIT. In fact, the 191 Carlow students enrolled in WIT compares respectably even with the 747 enrolled in IT Carlow. For every 4 Carlow students that attend Carlow, 1 attends WIT.

    So services in Waterford are very relevant to people in Carlow, whether they like to admit it or not, and institutions in Waterford (WIT) seem to be considered more accessible to Carlow people than institutions such as DIT.

    Another important point, in these times of cutting back services left, right and centre, is that the denizens of the south east and more likely to become more familiar with services in Waterford as local services are paired back and centralised. Dublin may be as close to places like Carlow and Cork to places like Clonmel, but Dublin and Cork have their own catchment populations to serve.


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    #36
    Chiparus
    Registered Users Posts: 2,254 ✭✭✭Chiparus


    merlante wrote: »
    That's why Waterford will probably emerge as the fastest growing city in Ireland once the full city plus suburbs figure comes out in April next year. ;)

    Waterford is coming on in leaps and bounds recently and always had a great quality of life when you take into account the amount of places to go and things to do in the area.

    Agree there is lots to do here, but the city is a dump.


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    #37
    merlante
    Registered Users Posts: 2,272 ✭✭✭merlante


    Chiparus wrote: »
    Agree there is lots to do here, but the city is a dump.

    Well you know what they say about opinions and arseholes. There are many attractive parts of inner city Waterford.


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    #38
    fuzzy dunlop
    Registered Users Posts: 1,145 ✭✭✭fuzzy dunlop


    dayshah wrote: »
    Gravity effects mean that people are attracted to larger areas. Take universities for example.


    I know what it means. I was asking you did you know what it means as you seem to misunderstand it? Not to mention the fact that gravity is not working in Ireland the way it should be. The gravity you are talking about needs to be negated in some instances such as Dublin and encouraged in other places. This is the whole point of a spatial strategy.


    dayshah wrote: »
    Carlow is halfway between Dublin and Waterford, so sure they have no reason to be against WIT upgrading. But does that mean they would actively campaign for it? No. Gravity effects mean that even if we had a university here the bulk of Carlow students would still be attracted to Dublin. Dublin has greater mass. Economies of scale mean that they are more likely to find the course they exactly want, as well as being attracted to the bright lights of Dublin, already have friends/family working there, etc etc. This holds for specialist medical services also. Waterford's advantage is the exact opposite to what you think it is. Because we are a relatively low density area we can offer students things like cheaper rents.

    In real terms Carlow is closer to Waterford as you have to take into account commuter congestion. It takes less time to get into Waterford from Carlow as it does to get from Naas to Dublin City Centre. Your analysis of a Carlow students desire to go to Dublin could apply to anyone including a Cork student so it is not relevant even if it is true. Your extrapolation of this theory for medical services is just wrong and again would easily apply to Cork as Waterford. The economies of scale are in the South East and services are provided on the population scale that exists in the South East. Bright Lights have SFA to do with it. A Carlow Student that prefers to travel home each evening is more likely to prefer Waterford than Dublin.

    dayshah wrote: »
    These are '06 figures. Have you even looked at the 2011 population density map I referred to?

    Page 2 of the 2011 figures show the South East has a higher growth rate than the South West. You also don’t know how to read Geographic Information Data. It’s the numbers that matter not the colours on the map. Any region that has a density above 100 per square km is red. This includes areas with 1000 people per square km (Waterford City) with area of 101 per square km (County Cork). The map shows that Cork and Limerick are shedding it’s urban population which debunks your gravity theory. Hong Kong would look the same as Middleton using those scales.

    dayshah wrote: »

    County Cork alone has a larger, denser, and more concentrated population than the entire South-East region. Sure tagging on mountainous Kerry (which also has a population above Waterford's) lowers the overall density, but increases the population of that area. Tagging on Kerry makes sense in that case because Cork is the nearest big city (though parts of North Kerry might find it better to go to Limerick). So the South East is nowhere near as important as the South West.

    This is factually incorrect. You can’t hive off mountainous areas in West Cork and Kerry and say this makes it denser. If you do you have to do the same in the South East. The South West is larger but not more densely populated. The aggregate urban population in the South East might be also comparable or even larger. But this isn’t about the South East versus the South West. It’s a statement of fact that the South East is demographically more important than most other regions outside the GDA and almost comparable to the South West. To say otherwise is ignoring reality.

    dayshah wrote: »
    The South East region has 17 TDs, but as I already stated, many of them aren't even interested in Waterford as a regional centre as they are just as close to Dublin. Much of the population growth since 2006 is because places like Gorey are in Dublin's commuter belt, not ours.

    The commuter belts have SFA to do with anything when it comes to hospitals or Universities or jobs for that matter. And anyway it’s not all Dublins Commuter belt. Places such as Arklow have enough Industry to attract commuters from Gorey as Does Wexford and Waterford. So that is not as cut and dry as you think.I would bet when you look at the numbers most people in Gorey and Carlow work within the region. As for political cohesion of our TD’s that has nothing to do with anything either. That is a political issue! It can be overcome politically which is what is happening in the Regional Authorities.


    dayshah wrote: »
    Our politicians are there to represent our area, just as politicians for other areas represent theirs. If a local politician were to make a case for some service based on your grossly flawed analysis, it wont be long before a politician from some other area picks them up on it. This just weakens the case for Waterford. Instead when we want something for Waterford we have to make the case that it is good for the country.

    If my analysis is so flawed why is it government policy? A Kilkenny or Wexford politician can’t campaign for Cancer Services in the South East without campaigning for Waterford because that’s where the centre is. Politicians are not that stupid. You also seem to forget that for a large part of both Kilkenny and Wexford electorate and significant parts of Tipp Waterford City is closer than their County Towns. Denying something from Waterford especially medical would be political suicide.


    dayshah wrote: »
    Waterford is not some major city, and the South East is not a major region. We shouldn't be worried for this. A proper spatial strategy would be good for the whole country, and services for Waterford could get support in that context. However a spatial strategy must first acknowledge that Waterford is relatively low density, and it is this low density which means we have plenty of room for growth, taking some congestion away from Dublin.

    Which is it? Services because we are not a major city or don’t provide services because we are not a major city. You seem confused. You can’t say Waterford is not a major City and Galway and Limerick are.The fact is Waterford is a major city by Irish standards. None of the Cities are anything without their region as they provide the economies of scale you are talking about and that includes Cork. Regionally the South East is much more important than the Mid West or West. Yes Cork and the South West is the most important outside Dublin but only by a minor and decreasing margin is it more important than the South East.


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    #39
    dayshah
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,542 ✭✭✭dayshah


    merlante wrote: »
    Carlow sends nearly twice the number of students to WIT than to Trinity, DCU or NUIM, and almost as many as it send to UCD. Comparing like with like, it also sends twice the number of students to WIT as it send to DIT. In fact, the 191 Carlow students enrolled in WIT compares respectably even with the 747 enrolled in IT Carlow. For every 4 Carlow students that attend Carlow, 1 attends WIT.

    So services in Waterford are very relevant to people in Carlow, whether they like to admit it or not, and institutions in Waterford (WIT) seem to be considered more accessible to Carlow people than institutions such as DIT.

    But that proves my point. Far, far, more Carlow students go to Dublin than to WIT. Its why Carlow people aren't particularly interested if WIT becomes a university. They already have 4 universities almost as close. A 5th would be nice for them, but they might find tax money spent better on other things.

    I agree services in Waterford are relevant, as Carlow straddles the 2 catchment areas. But we can't just assume that Carlow people prefer to come to Waterford if more choice and specialist services are available in Dublin.

    If we want to make an argument for a service like radiotherapy we can't argue that people in Carlow and Gorey are not already served, they can easily go to Dublin. What we can argue is that as they are also close to Waterford, by giving Waterford the service it will ease congestion on Dublin's hospitals. There is a point where congestion overcomes the benefits of economies of scale, and it is here that we have to make our argument, acknowledging that catchment areas for some services overlap. A large number of people in Gorey are from Dublin, know their way around Dublin, have family there, and prefer to go there than Waterford.

    However the argument of relieving congestion becomes weaker and weaker the more specialised the service is.

    The country is broke. We can't frame our arguments in terms of what's good for us, but what's good for the rest of the country.


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    #40
    dayshah
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,542 ✭✭✭dayshah


    Chiparus wrote: »
    Waterford is a bit of a dump compared to other towns in the region. Wexford, clonmel and Kilkenny are far nicer places to visit or live in.

    No one wants to come to waterford to visit    , its the southern version of Dundalk.

    Well I can think of 500,000 who wanted to visit.


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    #41
    merlante
    Registered Users Posts: 2,272 ✭✭✭merlante


    dayshah wrote: »
    But that proves my point. Far, far, more Carlow students go to Dublin than to WIT. Its why Carlow people aren't particularly interested if WIT becomes a university. They already have 4 universities almost as close. A 5th would be nice for them, but they might find tax money spent better on other things.

    I agree services in Waterford are relevant, as Carlow straddles the 2 catchment areas. But we can't just assume that Carlow people prefer to come to Waterford if more choice and specialist services are available in Dublin.

    If we want to make an argument for a service like radiotherapy we can't argue that people in Carlow and Gorey are not already served, they can easily go to Dublin. What we can argue is that as they are also close to Waterford, by giving Waterford the service it will ease congestion on Dublin's hospitals. There is a point where congestion overcomes the benefits of economies of scale, and it is here that we have to make our argument, acknowledging that catchment areas for some services overlap. A large number of people in Gorey are from Dublin, know their way around Dublin, have family there, and prefer to go there than Waterford.

    However the argument of relieving congestion becomes weaker and weaker the more specialised the service is.

    The country is broke. We can't frame our arguments in terms of what's good for us, but what's good for the rest of the country.

    Yes, more Carlow students go to Dublin, but there are also more institutions in Dublin. The WIT figure, in my opinion, shows a preference for WIT over institutions in Dublin, despite higher rankings, bigger reputation, university status and so on, in the case of those institutions. If the WIT were upgraded, WIT's numbers would increase. And the numbers are not *that* much greater. DCU, UCD, TCD and DIT all together only take something like 2.5-3 times what WIT takes. That's amazing if you think about it.

    The fact that a lot more students go to WIT over NUI Maynooth, given that they are basically the same distance from Waterford, might indicate a certain pull towards Waterford, or else a certain sense of 'staying within the region'. Maynooth may be seen as more peripheral or distant in the mindset.

    It is clearly easier to get in and out of Waterford, transport-wise, than Dublin, and Waterford might be seen as a more friendly place for students than big scary Dublin. It's also a damn sight cheaper to live there.

    Universities and colleges aside, where students have a choice about where to go, most services are or will come to be provided on a regional basis in the regional capital. The population of Dublin city is around 1.1m with another large regional population in the East. There are enough people for Dublin services to deal with without adding Carlow, etc., to the mix. The 0.5m people in the south east will have to use south east services whether they like it or not. They are not going to build a regional hospital in Waterford just for half the region to go to Dublin or Cork whether there are already large populations using services. Appointments, etc., will be set for Waterford. And people will generally be glad of it, because you can be in and out of Waterford in no time at all.

    There are some specialist services that will only be provided in Dublin, or maybe Cork, which is right and proper for a country of 4.5m. But the bread and butter stuff of education, health, etc. will be done on a regional level in regions of about 0.5m. At the moment, it is still happening in many places at a local level for populations of <100K, this won't last for much longer.


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    #42
    dayshah
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,542 ✭✭✭dayshah


    Yes. I suppose my main point is that for people from Carlow and Gorey we are in direct competition with Dublin, and with people from Lismore we are in competition with Cork. This is in contrast to Galway for example, who's catchment area is bigger as a result.

    So when people say things like the 500,000 people of the south east has no radiotherapy, its not really true, as the Carlow, Gorey etc people can go to Dublin easily.

    That WIT attracts as many students Carlow undergrads as TCD shows the high standard of WIT. I think they could get more support from Carlow TDs by saying how a university of Waterford would mean their children can get a university education, but pay half the rent, saving thousands. We should embrace our low population and density, which leads to the low rents.

    As for 'bread and butter' stuff. I broadly agree. I consider undergrad degrees (and some more popular masters) the bread and butter of education. But when we get to more specialised things like some Masters and almost all PhD programmes I don't think we can compete with Dublin. At best we can only have one niche area that would be at an international standard (like Galway and their medical devices).

    But overall I think its far better to argue Waterford should get a service because it will relieve pressure on Dublin, than because the 'south-east' needs it. Services in places in Tallaght hospital are creaking at the seems because their patients are coming from the hinterland outside Dublin.


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    #43
    merlante
    Registered Users Posts: 2,272 ✭✭✭merlante


    dayshah wrote: »
    Yes. I suppose my main point is that for people from Carlow and Gorey we are in direct competition with Dublin, and with people from Lismore we are in competition with Cork. This is in contrast to Galway for example, who's catchment area is bigger as a result.

    So when people say things like the 500,000 people of the south east has no radiotherapy, its not really true, as the Carlow, Gorey etc people can go to Dublin easily.

    That WIT attracts as many students Carlow undergrads as TCD shows the high standard of WIT. I think they could get more support from Carlow TDs by saying how a university of Waterford would mean their children can get a university education, but pay half the rent, saving thousands. We should embrace our low population and density, which leads to the low rents.

    As for 'bread and butter' stuff. I broadly agree. I consider undergrad degrees (and some more popular masters) the bread and butter of education. But when we get to more specialised things like some Masters and almost all PhD programmes I don't think we can compete with Dublin. At best we can only have one niche area that would be at an international standard (like Galway and their medical devices).

    But overall I think its far better to argue Waterford should get a service because it will relieve pressure on Dublin, than because the 'south-east' needs it. Services in places in Tallaght hospital are creaking at the seems because their patients are coming from the hinterland outside Dublin.

    If competition with other regions is acute in the south east, where Waterford is relatively distant from other cities, then it is far worse in Limerick, which is sandwiched between Cork and Galway. I think it is legitimate to talk about the south east region as a logical entity and logical portion of the country. Yes, of course people on the outskirts of the region can be served by other regions, but you could also argue that parts of other regions could be served by Waterford/south east as well.

    I don't think arguing for facilities for the south east is a weaker argument than arguing to take pressure off Dublin. For a start, the vast majority of the population of Co. Waterford is considerably closer to Waterford than Cork, including Dungarvan, which is a good 20 odd minutes closer to Waterford than Cork. Most of Wexford is much closer to Waterford than Dublin. South Tipp., especially the large populations are much closer to Waterford than anywhere else. Kilkenny is our back yard (our front yard according to them ;) ) and Carlow is 50/50. If Waterford were to be downgraded as a regional centre, the vast majority of the region would have much poorer access to services.


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    #44
    Chiparus
    Registered Users Posts: 2,254 ✭✭✭Chiparus


    merlante wrote: »
    Well you know what they say about opinions and arseholes. There are many attractive parts of inner city Waterford.

    Really? I have yet to find them.


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    #45
    fuzzy dunlop
    Registered Users Posts: 1,145 ✭✭✭fuzzy dunlop


    Chiparus wrote: »
    Really? I have yet to find them.

    Then you're seeing what you want to see or else you haven't been in the city centre.


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    #46
    Chiparus
    Registered Users Posts: 2,254 ✭✭✭Chiparus


    I live close to the city center, I just think it is not attractive to look at or visit,

    I think all heavy goods vehicles should be banned from the quay.

    The quays cut to one lane each way.

    Get rid of those pointless cycling stands.


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    #47
    merlante
    Registered Users Posts: 2,272 ✭✭✭merlante


    Chiparus wrote: »
    Really? I have yet to find them.

    John Robert's square; The Mall, bishop's palace, etc; Reginald's tower, William Wallace Plaza and Quay boardwalk; area around the Park; the narrow streets in the viking triangle; scotch quay with the swans. All of these areas have received more than a lick of paint in the recent past and look very well, as evidenced by the number of people who enjoy them.


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    #48
    fuzzy dunlop
    Registered Users Posts: 1,145 ✭✭✭fuzzy dunlop


    Chiparus wrote: »
    I live close to the city center, I just think it is not attractive to look at or visit,

    I think all heavy goods vehicles should be banned from the quay.

    The quays cut to one lane each way.

    Get rid of those pointless cycling stands.

    That's fair enough if it's your opinion at least you've made some qualification this time. But to suggest nowhere in the City centre is attractive is like saying nowhere in Holland is attractive. The older streetscapes in many Dutch towns is similar to what you will find in the streets around City Square. Likewise I would find it hard to believe anyone could walk around the Mall and not be able to admit that it is an attractive street.I agree with what you said about traffic on the quay btw.


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    #49
    dayshah
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,542 ✭✭✭dayshah


    @ Chiparus

    Regarding the cycling stands, I think the weird ones with umbrellas are pointless. They take up a lot of space, and are so difficult to use that hardly anyone uses them. Also they don't offer good locking possibilities. However, I think the other bike stands like in Ballybricken and the park are good.
    merlante wrote: »
    John Robert's square; The Mall, bishop's palace, etc; Reginald's tower, William Wallace Plaza and Quay boardwalk; area around the Park; the narrow streets in the viking triangle; scotch quay with the swans. All of these areas have received more than a lick of paint in the recent past and look very well, as evidenced by the number of people who enjoy them.

    And don't forget Cathedral Square, which I think is Waterford's hidden treasure.


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    #50
    O Riain
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,107 ✭✭✭O Riain


    dayshah wrote: »
    @ Chiparus

    Regarding the cycling stands, I think the weird ones with umbrellas are pointless. They take up a lot of space, and are so difficult to use that hardly anyone uses them. Also they don't offer good locking possibilities. However, I think the other bike stands like in Ballybricken and the park are good.



    And don't forget Cathedral Square, which I think is Waterford's hidden treasure.

    Cathedral square is an aging dump. Hopefully it wont be this way for much longer, the square needs to be completely redun, new tree's need to be put in, possibly put benches back in there but somehow try and keep the anti socials and drunks off it as this was a major problem the last time. As for the houses theres a new pottery shop but that leaves 3/6 houses in a shocking state.


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    #51
    merlante
    Registered Users Posts: 2,272 ✭✭✭merlante


    O Riain wrote: »
    Cathedral square is an aging dump. Hopefully it wont be this way for much longer, the square needs to be completely redun, new tree's need to be put in, possibly put benches back in there but somehow try and keep the anti socials and drunks off it as this was a major problem the last time. As for the houses theres a new pottery shop but that leaves 3/6 houses in a shocking state.

    I used to live around the corner up till a year or so ago. After the fire in one of the houses, things went downhill and squatters moved in to one of the other houses, but the area was never dangerous, and the drunks never hung around there (on Peter st., yes, but not in Cathedral sq.). There are not 3-6 houses in a bad state, more like 2 or 3. (There aren't even 6 houses there.) Even so, the area is still very nice despite a few blemishes.

    In any case, the whole area is being redone at the moment as part of the viking triangle, so just give it some time. The trees are overgrown and are going to be replaced with more appropriate trees, and there is a specific design for the layout of the square. I thought I remember hearing that one of the vacant houses was going to be turned into a small architectural museum, since it is the spot, possibly even the house, that John Roberts was born in.

    The whole area is coming on in leaps and bounds and where the council have completed work, there has been a vast difference. Gallweys chocolate and coffee shop seems to be doing good business in the heart of the viking triangle and there is a constant stream of tourists down to see the glassblowing and other crafts. This part of town only has a few blemishes left and will be one the crown jewels of Waterford in the very near future.


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    #52
    O Riain
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,107 ✭✭✭O Riain


    merlante wrote: »
    I used to live around the corner up till a year or so ago. After the fire in one of the houses, things went downhill and squatters moved in to one of the other houses, but the area was never dangerous, and the drunks never hung around there (on Peter st., yes, but not in Cathedral sq.). There are not 3-6 houses in a bad state, more like 2 or 3. (There aren't even 6 houses there.) Even so, the area is still very nice despite a few blemishes.

    In any case, the whole area is being redone at the moment as part of the viking triangle, so just give it some time. The trees are overgrown and are going to be replaced with more appropriate trees, and there is a specific design for the layout of the square. I thought I remember hearing that one of the vacant houses was going to be turned into a small architectural museum, since it is the spot, possibly even the house, that John Roberts was born in.

    The whole area is coming on in leaps and bounds and where the council have completed work, there has been a vast difference. Gallweys chocolate and coffee shop seems to be doing good business in the heart of the viking triangle and there is a constant stream of tourists down to see the glassblowing and other crafts. This part of town only has a few blemishes left and will be one the crown jewels of Waterford in the very near future.

    I meant to say 3/6 houses as in 3 out of 6, the problem with the drunks and scumbags goes back to when there were benches in the square which is going back around 12 years at this stage. There were two benches and were almost all the time used by singing/shouting drunks or scumbags. I've seen the plans for the square on the viking triangle report, as far as I know the plans are far from finalised and thankfully so because the pictures I saw were horrendous with big gawdy chairs and a chessboard design for the ground. Last year there was an art piece(memorial for john condon) placed in the square for a few days and this was also being considered for the square, once again I dont think its going in and once again thank god. It was huge, removed all the space from the square and was ugly. None of the houses are being turned into a museum, especially not john roberts house, what nobody realise's is that water has been running constantly from the second floor of that house and I wouldnt be surprised if the thing falls down in the next week.

    One thing that needs to be sorted is parking in the area. The city council placed the housing office in baileys new street and the motor tax office right beside it in the square. This has caused chaos with people leaving their cars "just for a second" anywhere they can. More than anything if an ambulance or fire engine needed to get into the square from the hours of 9am - 5pm it would not be possible. Why these buildings werent put in more suitable locations is beyond me. While we are on it! The motor tax office would have been an IDEAL location for a museum and they could have moved that to a more suitable location instead they spend millions on building a new museum, this seems a bit fishy to me. Also theyre finally going to pedestrianise baileys new street, which I agree with but when you combine this with the removal of spaces on the quay it will leave virtually nowhere for residents to park and this is not fair, something will have to be done about the parking situation in the area.

    One last point the fencing around Christ Church should be removed, it would increase the square size by around 1/5 and this could actually open another dimension as to what can be done around spraoi or another posisble tall ships.


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    #53
    allthedoyles
    Registered Users Posts: 6,893 ✭✭✭allthedoyles


    Well on Saturdays , the Wexford population decreases and the Waterford population increases , as the buses are packed with shoppers heading to Waterford for an enjoyable day out .


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    #54
    PTH2009
    Registered Users Posts: 37,987 ✭✭✭✭PTH2009


    allthedoyles wrote: »
    Well on Saturdays , the Wexford population decreases and the Waterford population increases , as the buses are packed with shoppers heading to Waterford for an enjoyable day out .

    ah tis quare good shopping down waterford lol


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    #55
    abouttobebanned
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,943 ✭✭✭abouttobebanned


    Hon


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    #56
    marathont
    Registered Users Posts: 326 ✭✭marathont


    allthedoyles wrote: »
    Well on Saturdays , the Wexford population decreases and the Waterford population increases , as the buses are packed with shoppers heading to Waterford for an enjoyable day out .

    I dont know if you are being serious or not, but In my experience the shopping in waterford is not great, I reckon most people would head to Dublin instead. You can be In Dundrum shopping centre in 90 mins from Wexford town. In from wexford btw, and am not trying to knock Waterford, as I spent my college years there, and still visit ocasionally, and I think its grand.


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    #57
    kkdela6
    Closed Accounts Posts: 414 ✭✭kkdela6


    Waterfords biggest problem is the lazy gob****es that bitch and moan about it every day, blaming all their lifes problems and boredom on Waterford being 'a kip boy', when really the problem is they dont do a damn thing about it but just sit at home and watch tv all day, and make no effort.
    I was fed up of Waterford when i finished my leaving cert and so i set off for Dublin, and over the years i've found my love for Waterford again and i can tell you it is a far nicer place to live than Dublin.

    I have many Wexford friends in WIT, and they all tell me Waterford is considered the big shmoke in alot of places down there.

    No one wants to visit Waterford. what a load of rubbish. There is a hell lot more to do in Waterford than in any other town in Ireland, bar maybe Dublin, Cork and Galway.


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    #58
    abouttobebanned
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,943 ✭✭✭abouttobebanned


    And what have you been doing about it? Apart from bitching about the bitches.


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    #59
    kkdela6
    Closed Accounts Posts: 414 ✭✭kkdela6


    abouttobebanned wrote: »
    And what have you been doing about it? Apart from bitching about the bitches.

    what have i been doing about what?


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    #60
    abouttobebanned
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,943 ✭✭✭abouttobebanned


    What do you do to make Waterford a better place to live, work, and play?


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    #61
    kkdela6
    Closed Accounts Posts: 414 ✭✭kkdela6


    I organise illegal street races in woodstown, im the main man for ten spots around ballymacaw and i even do a joe dolan tribute in The Saratoga bar the second saturday of every month! I also employ 2 people on my turnip farm


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