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Screwed by Bank of Ireland - No money for weekend

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  • 07-03-2014 2:39pm
    #1
    DulchieLaois
    Registered Users Posts: 466 ✭✭


    Have I any consumer rights here ?

    I recently changed from AIB to TSB

    As a result of the changeover, I have been advised by TSB and BOI that the details for my monthly Mortgage direct debit cannot be done for February due to the time it takes to set up the details on their systems.

    I was told that I need to do a manually payment for my February mortgage which I have done in February.

    I also received a letter from Bank of Ireland advising me that the account is set up and the Direct Debit is in place for 25th March 2014.

    This morning, I went to withdraw money from my TSB account, it advised me that I had insufficient funds which I found very unusual.

    I have checked my account online and noted that Bank of Ireland Mortgages took the funds from my current account, without any consent therefore leaving me in a overdraft and no funds for today or the weekend.

    I have rang BOI and TSB and while they are all apologetic etc etc, BOI have admitted fault but it will take 3 working days before I receive the funds, yet that is no good to me

    As I sit here typing, I had to borrow €5 from my work colleague to get lunch, and unsure what to do for the weekend ahead - most likely borrow money off everyone around me.

    Do I have any rights here in compensation for this ?, I was actually hoping to buy a flight today before prices go up on Ryanair and standard bits and bobs.

    The idea of having to ask people for a loan should not be the case considering they messed up.

    Worse of all, if this was something i messed up, the banks will be on the phone asap, demanding money and will take no excuses wheres the tables are turned, and they are passing on the fault along the lines to technology

    Any help please and thank you


«1

Comments

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    #2
    emeldc
    Registered Users Posts: 2,594 ✭✭✭emeldc


    If the bank have admitted they screwed up, I would have insisted that a temporary overdraft be set up until the funds are back in your account.

    Are BOI and TSB all the one now?


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    #3
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,849 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    emeldc wrote: »
    Are BOI and TSB all the one now?

    No. PTSB are still independent albeit owned by the state, BOI are completely unconnected.


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    #4
    wmpdd3
    Registered Users Posts: 9,624 ✭✭✭wmpdd3


    I would be in the bank refusing to leave without a temporary free overdraft. I realise you are in work.

    Under SEPA, the money should be returned ASAP.
    As a Debtor under the SEPA DD Scheme you have the right to:


    Use your account to pay a SEPA Direct Debit in any SEPA country.
    Instruct your bank to refuse a Direct Debit.
    Prohibit the application of any Direct Debits to your bank accounts.
    From 1st February 2014 you can specify Creditors who may collect Direct Debits from your bank accounts.
    From 1st February 2014 you can specify Creditors who may not collect Direct Debits from your bank accounts.
    From 1st February 2014 you can limit a Direct Debit collection to a certain amount and/or periodicity.
    Request a refund for any Direct Debit within eight weeks from the date on which the Direct Debit was debited from your account. Within the eight week period your bank must refund you on a no-questions asked basis.
    Request a refund for any unauthorised Direct Debit after 8 weeks and within 13 months from the date the on which the Direct Debit was debited from your account.

    http://www.ipso.ie/section/SEPASDDDebtorRights

    Actually, it doesn't say how long it should take to get to you.

    In my experience you have no hope of compensation, but I would open a formal complaint immediately anyway.


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    #5
    Cabaal
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,468 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    emeldc wrote: »
    If the bank have admitted they screwed up, I would have insisted that a temporary overdraft be set up until the funds are back in your account.

    Not forgetting the important part....a temp overdraft with no interest being charged


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    #6
    RangeR
    Registered Users Posts: 7,265 ✭✭✭RangeR


    OP : You have absolute rights under the Direct Debit [SEPA] Scheme. Ring your local branch now. They MUST refund the money immediately. And I mean within the hour. It's the agreement they signed up for.

    If you went into overdraft, they must refund all charges too. Don'pt ring 365, you have to ring the branch that holds your current account.

    I'll be around for a few hours. You will need more advice because they will stone wall you. Ring them now and report back.


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    #7
    emeldc
    Registered Users Posts: 2,594 ✭✭✭emeldc


    MYOB wrote: »
    No. PTSB are still independent albeit owned by the state, BOI are completely unconnected.

    Thats what I thought, but the OP seems to be dealing with both having said that he switched from AIB to TSB but BOI screwed up :confused:

    EDIT: I get it now, the mortgage is with BOI.


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    #8
    DulchieLaois
    Registered Users Posts: 466 ✭✭DulchieLaois


    TSB my current branch cant do anything cause, it was not them who messed up, therefore they cant give me a temp overdraft.

    BOI are the guilty party as they called for the funds when they shouldnt have, therefore leaving me with nothing.


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    #9
    RangeR
    Registered Users Posts: 7,265 ✭✭✭RangeR


    DulchieLaois wrote: »
    TSB my current branch cant do anything cause, it was not them who messed up, therefore they cant give me a temp overdraft.

    BOI are the guilty party as they called for the funds when they shouldnt have, therefore leaving me with nothing.

    OP : Tell TSB that an unathorised Direct Debit was taken from your account. They HAVE TO refund it. tis the rules.

    Linky : http://www.ipso.ie/section/SEPASDDDebtorRights
    Request a refund for any Direct Debit within eight weeks from the date on which the Direct Debit was debited from your account. Within the eight week period your bank must refund you on a no-questions asked basis.

    Request a refund for any unauthorised Direct Debit after 8 weeks and within 13 months from the date the on which the Direct Debit was debited from your account.


    EDIT : As I said, your bank will stone wall you. Don't take it. Be assertive and tell them to live up to the SEPA Scheme rules. TSB MUST refund you today. No overdraft, no loan but a full refund of the money that BOI took.


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    #10
    DulchieLaois
    Registered Users Posts: 466 ✭✭DulchieLaois


    They will refund it but the standard procedure of it takes 24-72 hours to do so - they will contact BOI to request the money etc etc - the usual bull we get all the time RangeR - thanks though

    Since, its hitting 5pm, i am sure its way too late to get anything at this stage of the day and have to rely on the generousity of others around me for the weekend.

    Pretty peed for sure by their actions and yet they will sweet FA to rectify the problem for me.


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    #11
    RangeR
    Registered Users Posts: 7,265 ✭✭✭RangeR


    OP, there is also a high chance that the person that you are speaking to is not aware of the SEPA rules and are quoting bank policy. Bank policy is irrelevant. If you are getting no joy in your local branch, ring head office and ask to be put through to group complaints. They should sort you within the hour.


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    #12
    RangeR
    Registered Users Posts: 7,265 ✭✭✭RangeR


    DulchieLaois wrote: »
    They will refund it but the standard procedure of it takes 24-72 hours to do so - they will contact BOI to request the money etc etc - the usual bull we get all the time RangeR - thanks though

    Since, its hitting 5pm, i am sure its way too late to get anything at this stage of the day and have to rely on the generousity of others around me for the weekend.

    Pretty peed for sure by their actions and yet they will sweet FA to rectify the problem for me.

    No no no. Refund is now. Not depending on when BOI refund the money. BOI refunding the money has nothing to do with you. TSB are obligated by law to refund you now. This minute [allow an hour to be nice] but really, that's how it is.

    They are trying to bend the rules so they are not short of funds. That's not allowed in the rules. Don't accept their fobs. Really, I've been through this many times.


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    #13
    DulchieLaois
    Registered Users Posts: 466 ✭✭DulchieLaois


    On a Friday evening, they are gone to the pub no doubt

    I just tried the Complaints departments by phone and just got a message saying that "We regret that we are unavailable"

    Thanks RangeR for your help, its hopeless situation and so are the banks overall


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    #14
    RangeR
    Registered Users Posts: 7,265 ✭✭✭RangeR


    DulchieLaois wrote: »
    On a Friday evening, they are gone to the pub no doubt

    I just tried the Complaints departments by phone and just got a message saying that "We regret that we are unavailable"

    Thanks RangeR for your help, its hopeless situation and so are the banks overall

    I understand. It's not hopeless. People have to complain or nothing will chance.


    Legislator, why are BOI allowed to abuse the Direct Debit and SEPA Schemes with impunity. You know I was royally screwed by them. You know it happens on a near daily basis. You know BOI were in the wrong. You know that BOI stone walled me. Yet you do nothing.

    Your scheme is broken. You know it's broken. We know it's broken. Yet nothing appears to be done to fix it.


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    #15
    DulchieLaois
    Registered Users Posts: 466 ✭✭DulchieLaois


    I am going to lodge complaint with the financial ombudsman - its a lost cause but still its THE PRINCIPAL of everything

    I just rang TSB and they have advised me, I am sorry Sir, it will take 72 hours before the funds reach my account


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    #16
    RangeR
    Registered Users Posts: 7,265 ✭✭✭RangeR


    DulchieLaois wrote: »
    I am going to lodge complaint with the financial ombudsman - its a lost cause but still its THE PRINCIPAL of everything

    I just rang TSB and they have advised me, I am sorry Sir, it will take 72 hours before the funds reach my account

    This is unforgiveable. They are flaunting the rules. Ombudsman won't help yet.

    Make formal complaint to TSB Group.
    Make formal complaint to IPSO. I've informed IPSO, informally, already.
    Maybe make a formal complaint to BOI.
    Put it in writing. Post it by registered post.

    I really feel for you. This just isn't fair. I've been there. Not sure if you're up for it. Could be a long fight.


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    #17
    dub45
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 12,448 Mod ✭✭✭✭dub45


    Bank of Ireland have stolen money from you - don't lose sight of that fact as you pursue this. If you walked into a BOI branch and took a fiver and said I will drop it back on Monday what would happen? Your life would be destroyed that's what!

    Why should there be no consequences when a company's incompetence messes up a person's life like BOI has yours.

    By the way you should link to this in BOI forum and why not email a link to the Joe Duffy show etc. public embarrassment sadly is the only weapon.


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    #18
    dub45
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 12,448 Mod ✭✭✭✭dub45


    RangeR wrote: »
    This is unforgiveable. They are flaunting the rules. Ombudsman won't help yet.

    Make formal complaint to TSB Group.
    Make formal complaint to IPSO. I've informed IPSO, informally, already.
    Maybe make a formal complaint to BOI.
    Put it in writing. Post it by registered post.

    I really feel for you. This just isn't fair. I've been there. Not sure if you're up for it. Could be a long fight.

    IPSO don't give a damn. They don't enforce the rules. They will tell you they "work" with the companies - I don't see any evidence of their work! Nor do they "work" with the bill payer when they get fees dumped on them.


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    #19
    Pablo Sanchez
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,207 ✭✭✭Pablo Sanchez


    RangeR wrote: »
    OP : You have absolute rights under the Direct Debit [SEPA] Scheme. Ring your local branch now. They MUST refund the money immediately. And I mean within the hour. It's the agreement they signed up for.
    .

    Hi RangeR, can you point to the rule that states that a requested refund of a DD needs to be repaid within the hour?


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    #20
    dub45
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 12,448 Mod ✭✭✭✭dub45


    Pablo Sanchez wrote: »
    Hi RangeR, can you point to the rule that states that a requested refund of a DD needs to be repaid within the hour?

    http://www.ipso.ie/section/section/YourRightsasaPayer

    DulchieLaois wrote: »
    I have rang BOI and TSB and while they are all apologetic etc etc, BOI have admitted fault but it will take 3 working days before I receive the funds, yet that is no good to me

    If it is established that an unauthorised direct debit was charged to your account, you are guaranteed an immediate refund by your bank of the amount so charged where you notify your bank without undue delay on becoming aware of the unauthorised direct debit, and in any event no later than 13 months after the date of debiting of such direct debit to your account


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    #21
    Pablo Sanchez
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,207 ✭✭✭Pablo Sanchez


    Excellent, thanks a mill


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    #22
    dub45
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 12,448 Mod ✭✭✭✭dub45


    What's forgotten in all of this is that it is our account and our money. The banks have a responsibility to respect and protect the integrity of a customer's account but this seems to have been long forgotten.

    IPSO appear to operate their own set of rules in relation to the dd system and operate on the basis that things can be fixed up afterwards.
    There is no provision under dd system rules for operating like this.

    This takes no account of companies taking money without permission or consequential messing up of people's lives.

    Bank of Ireland take money they are not entitled to without permission cause huge inconvenience, embarrassment humiliation etc etc
    Consequences? Zero

    Imagine if the op was away on holidays and this happened?


    Miss a direct debit payment though? Bank Charges + administrati0n charges

    The only one ever penalised under dd system is the bill payer.


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    #23
    dudara
    Registered Users Posts: 33,519 ✭✭✭✭dudara


    dub45 wrote: »
    Bank of Ireland have stolen money from you - don't lose sight of that fact as you pursue this. If you walked into a BOI branch and took a fiver and said I will drop it back on Monday what would happen? Your life would be destroyed that's what!

    Why should there be no consequences when a company's incompetence messes up a person's life like BOI has yours.

    By the way you should link to this in BOI forum and why not email a link to the Joe Duffy show etc. public embarrassment sadly is the only weapon.

    It's TSB that's refusing to refund the money. They are the party obliged to refund the OP immediately


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    #24
    dub45
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 12,448 Mod ✭✭✭✭dub45


    I agree of course that TSB should have refunded it but who asked for it originally? BOI.


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    #25
    ANXIOUS
    Registered Users Posts: 3,095 ✭✭✭ANXIOUS


    RangeR I followed your thread with interest. I had the same problem as the op an insurance company I canceled took a years premiums. I rang BOI they said I had to fill in a form and POST it to them and they would action it within 24hrs.


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    #26
    RangeR
    Registered Users Posts: 7,265 ✭✭✭RangeR


    DulchieLaois wrote: »
    I am going to lodge complaint with the financial ombudsman - its a lost cause but still its THE PRINCIPAL of everything

    I just rang TSB and they have advised me, I am sorry Sir, it will take 72 hours before the funds reach my account
    dudara wrote: »
    It's TSB that's refusing to refund the money. They are the party obliged to refund the OP immediately
    Dudara, under the new SEPA rules ORIGINATORS (CREDITOR?) MUST have a facility to reverse a bad debit. To me, all parties are at fault here, other than the OP.


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    #27
    RangeR
    Registered Users Posts: 7,265 ✭✭✭RangeR


    ANXIOUS wrote: »
    RangeR I followed your thread with interest. I had the same problem as the op an insurance company I canceled took a years premiums. I rang BOI they said I had to fill in a form and POST it to them and they would action it within 24hrs.

    How did that turn out? Very conscious of derailing. If its going to be more than one post, maybe start a new thread. Or maybe dudara could split it?


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    #28
    ANXIOUS
    Registered Users Posts: 3,095 ✭✭✭ANXIOUS


    RangeR wrote: »
    How did that turn out? Very conscious of derailing. If its going to be more than one post, maybe start a new thread. Or maybe dudara could split it?

    It only happened yesterday, so still in the middle of it. Yeah perhaps a SePa refund thread would be more suitable.


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    #29
    nlgbbbblth
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,668 ✭✭✭nlgbbbblth


    If Trustee Savings Bank could not refund the unauthorised transaction on the day then they should have suggested you visit one of their branches and withdraw cash over the counter i.e. enough to tide you over for the weekend. A form of temporary overdraft that would be repaid once the transaction was corrected. All interest and fees incurred to be refunded in due course.

    That would be considered "practical" banking. Unfortunately it's in short supply at the moment as we wallow in the "computer says no" mire.


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    #30
    gugleguy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,959 ✭✭✭gugleguy


    nlgbbbblth wrote: »
    mire.
    quagmire you mean.


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    #31
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    gugleguy wrote: »
    quagmire you mean.

    Giggiddy.

    Hope this gets sorted quick for you op, yet again banks screw customers and as stated if it was your fault you would be hit with all sorts of charges yet when they do it they say "oh it was an error, sorry about that"


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