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Why are UPC allowed to carry UTV/Itv channels on EPG but not sky/Eircom?

  • 17-10-2013 06:36PM
    #1
    irishfeen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,070 ✭✭✭


    Simple question, does anyone know why UTV/Itv channels are allowed to be present on UPC but not on the sky/eircom platform? ....

    UTV states .. "We would very much like to be available on the Sky in Ireland, but unfortunately due to programme copyright issues we are currently prevented from being carried on this platform"

    what possible copyright issues could be affected on sky and not UPC? ... its even FTA via other channels.


«1

Comments

  • #2
    SHANAbert
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 162 ✭✭SHANAbert


    sky have utv

    you can tune them in to the added or extra channels option.

    I did it for my folks. Google it. It's a free to air channel.


  • #3
    irishfeen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,070 ✭✭✭irishfeen


    SHANAbert wrote: »
    sky have utv

    you can tune them in to the added or extra channels option.

    I did it for my folks. Google it. It's a free to air channel.
    Not on the EPG though, can't record any of the channels without the "trick" ... it just doesn't seem to make much sense.


  • #4
    SHANAbert
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 162 ✭✭SHANAbert


    ya that's true and annoying!

    UTV had their own digital service for a while years back in direct competition with Sky if I remember right. Maybe they charge sky too much? Free to Air boxes pick up 90% of Sky basic package including all the ITV channels. That Eircom thing is a joke. New customers need to sign up to a landline. Dinosaur stuff!


  • #5
    Peter Rhea
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,285 ✭✭✭Peter Rhea


    SHANAbert wrote: »
    Eircom thing is a joke. New customers need to sign up to a landline. Dinosaur stuff!

    Just what way were you expecting a telecom company to deliver an IPTV service?


  • #6
    irishfeen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,070 ✭✭✭irishfeen


    SHANAbert wrote: »
    ya that's true and annoying!

    UTV had their own digital service for a while years back in direct competition with Sky if I remember right. Maybe they charge sky too much? Free to Air boxes pick up 90% of Sky basic package including all the ITV channels. That Eircom thing is a joke. New customers need to sign up to a landline. Dinosaur stuff!
    Yeah its terribly annoying.. I'd love to know how UPC get away with having them on the EPG.. its obviously a think that could bring customers in as many might not know they are FTA. You would be thinking sky would be flat out trying to get them on the EPG like BBC/C4.


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  • #7
    irishfeen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,070 ✭✭✭irishfeen


    SHANAbert wrote: »
    ya that's true and annoying!

    UTV had their own digital service for a while years back in direct competition with Sky if I remember right. Maybe they charge sky too much? Free to Air boxes pick up 90% of Sky basic package including all the ITV channels. That Eircom thing is a joke. New customers need to sign up to a landline. Dinosaur stuff!
    It does seem like a good value deal though.


  • #8
    SHANAbert
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 162 ✭✭SHANAbert


    it's a 10er a month (for mainly free to air channels) on top of paying for a phoneline.

    There's an initial investment to the freesat boxes but after that there's no bills.

    Includes RTE2 HD, ITV HD, BBC HD, BBC1 HD and C4 HD


  • #9
    irishfeen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,070 ✭✭✭irishfeen


    SHANAbert wrote: »
    it's a 10er a month (for mainly free to air channels) on top of paying for a phoneline.

    There's an initial investment to the freesat boxes but after that there's no bills.

    Includes RTE2 HD, ITV HD, BBC HD, BBC1 HD and C4 HD
    I think it includes Setanta Ireland too, so not that bad at all.


  • #10
    SHANAbert
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 162 ✭✭SHANAbert


    irishfeen wrote: »
    I think it includes Setanta Ireland too, so not that bad at all.

    That helps certainly. freesat lacks on the sporting front.

    Good internet and xbmc helps though


  • #11
    irishfeen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,070 ✭✭✭irishfeen


    SHANAbert wrote: »
    That helps certainly. freesat lacks on the sporting front.

    Good internet and xbmc helps though
    If it had UTV/ ITV channels on the EPG like UPC it would actually be a good deal.


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  • #12
    The Cush
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 16,233 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    irishfeen wrote: »
    I'd love to know how UPC get away with having them on the EPG..

    They didn't get away with anything they have carriage agreements with all their channels and has been in place since Cablelink days in the early 90s following the TV Without Frontiers Directive and a Copyright Directive IIRC. I remember some dispute raised in the Dáil at the time as some channels were withdrawn.

    Also IIRC didn't Sky do a deal with BBC which allowed them to be carried on the Sky Ireland epg, maybe they couldn't reach a similar arrangement with UTV/ITV.


  • #13
    irishfeen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,070 ✭✭✭irishfeen


    The Cush wrote: »
    They didn't get away with anything they have carriage agreements with all their channels and has been in place since Cablelink days in the early 90s following the TV Without Frontiers Directive and a Copyright Directive IIRC. I remember some dispute raised in the Dáil at the time as some channels were withdrawn.

    Also IIRC didn't Sky do a deal with BBC which allowed them to be carried on the Sky Ireland epg, maybe they couldn't reach a similar arrangement with UTV/ITV.
    Why are UTV saying they can't launch on sky because of "programme copyright issues" so? .. why is it ok on UPC and not sky?


  • #14
    The Cush
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 16,233 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    irishfeen wrote: »
    If it had UTV/ ITV channels on the EPG like UPC it would actually be a good deal.

    They may appear in due course
    While the basic package includes BBC and Channel 4, it does not include ITV or Sky News. A spokesman said that licensing negotiations with these channels are ongoing.

    http://www.independent.ie/business/technology/eircom-launches-tv-service-in-direct-challenge-to-sky-and-upc-29665613.html


  • #15
    The Cush
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 16,233 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    irishfeen wrote: »
    why is it ok on UPC and not sky?

    A question only ITV/UTV and Sky will be able to answer I guess, anything else will be speculation.


  • #16
    irishfeen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,070 ✭✭✭irishfeen


    The Cush wrote: »
    They may appear in due course
    If they did have the ITV channels and we had access to fibre BB (we never will because we rural folk) i'd imagine it would be something we would consider seriously opposed to sky.


  • #17
    irishfeen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,070 ✭✭✭irishfeen


    The Cush wrote: »
    A question only ITV/UTV and Sky will be able to answer I guess, anything else will be speculation.
    Seems to be a totally strange set-up... UTV (not ITV) is on UPC so obviously a deal is in place... but they can't launch on sky because they are "currently prevented from being carried on this platform". I can't understand the set up, someone is preventing them from being on sky but not UPC.


  • #18
    The Cush
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 16,233 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    irishfeen wrote: »
    If they did have the ITV channesl and we had access to fibre BB (we never will because we rural folk) i'd imagine it would be something we would consider seriously opposed to sky.

    My local telephone exchange was one of the last to be upgraded for BB in Co Limerick a few years ago so little chance of efibre around here for many, many years to come.

    The Eircom TV service could be a natural replacement for MMDS customers who will lose their TV service within two and a half years time.


  • #19
    irishfeen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,070 ✭✭✭irishfeen


    The Cush wrote: »
    My local telephone exchange was one of the last to be upgraded for BB in Co Limerick a few years ago so little chance of efibre around here for many, many years to come.

    The Eircom TV service could be a natural replacement for MMDS customers who will lose their TV service within two and a half years time.
    We still don't have line broadband (Yes in 2013 still dial up) ... so your well ahead of us :pac:


  • #20
    doney84
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 377 ✭✭doney84


    SHANAbert wrote: »
    it's a 10er a month (for mainly free to air channels) on top of paying for a phoneline.

    There's an initial investment to the freesat boxes but after that there's no bills.

    Includes RTE2 HD, ITV HD, BBC HD, BBC1 HD and C4 HD

    Don't think RTE2 HD is available through Freesat.


  • #21
    radiowaves
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,089 ✭✭✭radiowaves


    SHANAbert wrote: »
    sky have utv

    you can tune them in to the added or extra channels option.

    I did it for my folks. Google it. It's a free to air channel.

    Sky don't have UTV. This is precisely why it needs to be tuned to Other Channels. Unless you're one of those that thinks Sky also own the Astra fleet.


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  • #22
    irishfeen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,070 ✭✭✭irishfeen


    doney84 wrote: »
    Don't think RTE2 HD is available through Freesat.
    Yeah its FTV not FTA.


  • #23
    Peter Rhea
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,285 ✭✭✭Peter Rhea


    radiowaves wrote: »
    Unless you're one of those that thinks Sky also own the Astra fleet.

    . . . And thinks combi boxes are Freesat:
    SHANAbert wrote: »
    There's an initial investment to the freesat boxes but after that there's no bills.

    Includes RTE2 HD, ITV HD, BBC HD, BBC1 HD and C4 HD


  • #24
    Peter Rhea
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,285 ✭✭✭Peter Rhea


    irishfeen wrote: »
    Yeah its FTV not FTA.

    How is RTE FTV on 28 east?


  • #25
    irishfeen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,070 ✭✭✭irishfeen


    radiowaves wrote: »
    Sky don't have UTV. This is precisely why it needs to be tuned to Other Channels. Unless you're one of those that thinks Sky also own the Astra fleet.
    Exactly and as sky's small print reads... "its availability is outside the control of sky"


  • #26
    irishfeen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,070 ✭✭✭irishfeen


    Peter Rhea wrote: »
    How is RTE FTV on 28 east?
    Requires a card to clear it.


  • #27
    icdg
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 12,442 Mod ✭✭✭✭icdg


    irishfeen wrote: »
    Yeah its terribly annoying.. I'd love to know how UPC get away with having them on the EPG.. its obviously a think that could bring customers in as many might not know they are FTA. You would be thinking sky would be flat out trying to get them on the EPG like BBC/C4.

    As pointed out earlier they've been on what is now UPC since before there was a UPC. Before there was even a Sky, in fact. Cable in Ireland wouldn't have existed, or at least not so early, if it weren't for them (and the BBC too, of course) - it might have been the 1990s instead of the 1970s when it developed.
    SHANAbert wrote: »

    UTV had their own digital service for a while years back in direct competition with Sky if I remember right.

    You're possibly thinking of the Carlton/Granada backed ONdigital, later ITV Digital, but UTV had no hand, act, or part in that. However, as a direct consequence of ONdigital, the ITV companies refused to go on Sky from the off - there was a dummy channel labelled "ITV" on 103 in the UK which read "Press TV then 3 for ITV". Of course, in those days, the Irish EPG started at 106.

    For me the fact that UTV (and ITV2, 3, 4) are available, if with some difficulty, on satellite has probably lessened the pressure on Sky and ITV/UTV to do a carriage deal.
    The Cush wrote: »
    The Eircom TV service could be a natural replacement for MMDS customers who will lose their TV service within two and a half years time.

    This is really one for the eFibre thread, but to go OT, I wouldn't see that way, for the moment anyway - the exchanges capable of running this service, for the moment, are likely to be mainly in cities and large towns, whereas most MMDS customers would be rural based.


  • #28
    Peter Rhea
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,285 ✭✭✭Peter Rhea


    irishfeen wrote: »
    Requires a card to clear it.

    Where would I get one of these cards either free or for a once-off payment?


  • #29
    irishfeen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,070 ✭✭✭irishfeen


    icdg wrote: »
    As pointed out earlier they've been on what is now UPC since before there was a UPC. Before there was even a Sky, in fact. Cable in Ireland wouldn't have existed, or at least not so early, if it weren't for them (and the BBC too, of course) - it might have been the 1990s instead of the 1970s when it developed.
    But that wouldn't still explain UTV saying they are being prevented due to rights issues (even though they say they want to) ... if they would have rights issues on Sky then they have rights issues on UPC at the moment (it should not matter when they were first on the platform)


  • #30
    irishfeen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,070 ✭✭✭irishfeen


    Peter Rhea wrote: »
    Where would I get one of these cards either free or for a once-off payment?
    You need at least the cheapest package from sky (I think) to get a card.


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  • #31
    doney84
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 377 ✭✭doney84


    irishfeen wrote: »
    You need at least the cheapest package from sky (I think) to get a card.


    and where on a freesat box can you insert a card?


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