International Tier 2/3/4 Thread

tolosenc · 13-06-2012 5:36pm

Anyone else thinking of applying for jobs in one of these minnow countries and then trying to get capped after 3 years?

KenSwee · 13-06-2012 5:38pm

It's a great way to represent a country in international sport.
Bit too old I'm afraid. 2o years younger and I'd be all for it.

Fishooks12 · 13-06-2012 5:59pm

tolosenc wrote: »

Anyone else thinking of applying for jobs in one of these minnow countries and then trying to get capped after 3 years?

If I emigrate when I graduate this time next year It'll probably be to London.

Should walk onto the International team

wonton · 13-06-2012 10:32pm

funky penguin wrote: »

That's also a massive obstacle for Japan. Most Junior High Schools here won't allow rugby as it's too dangerous, so most kids have their first interaction in High School, aged 15/16. Some private schools start early (hohoho!), and lately I've noticed a couple of kids telling me they've joined an outside club. That's a tough ask in itself, as Junior High kids here are expected to join an after school club and participate until about 6/7 pm. So to have rugby training on top of that three days a week......

any idea if the japanese dude that joined with stade francais has gotten any game time?

and did you see shane williams is off to japan too?

youd think all these players moving there might generate some interest.

13-06-2012 10:40pm

tolosenc wrote: »

Anyone else thinking of applying for jobs in one of these minnow countries and then trying to get capped after 3 years?

after seeing the Finnish jersey, I've been thinking about moving across!

funky penguin · 14-06-2012 12:29am

KenSwee wrote: »

funky penguin wrote: »

I agree. Also, the idea of Japanese people all being small and squat is also very misleading I've found. There's a 14 year old kid I teach that is ridiculously tall for his age (taller than me at my 183cm), and quite built. But he plays basketball, and has done so for the past 7 years of his life. This is one of the major hurdles rugby has to overcome in Japan - it's a small fish in a big pond of various sports Japanese kids play in school. To the system's credit, the variety is excellent, but rugby just can't compete with basketball, volleyball (!), tennis, soccer and of course....baseball.

But it is professional though isn't it?
If so, how is it compared to say the Super 15 in terms of pay packet?
I know Shane Williams has done a u turn and is heading there so there must be some decent money?

Yeah, it's professional alright, and I think it's potentially more than S15 depending on your status ( like te Brad Thorns, George Smiths and now Shane Williams' of the rugby world!). Don't have a figure though. Did a quick search but my Japanese isn't good enough to peg a number down yet... :0

I can't believe Shane Williams! Ha! Fair play to the little guy.

matthew8 · 14-06-2012 12:48am

So the Barbarians game wasn't really Shane Williams' last pro game?

Fishooks12 · 14-06-2012 1:04am

funky penguin wrote: »

Yeah, it's professional alright, and I think it's potentially more than S15 depending on your status ( like te Brad Thorns, George Smiths and now Shane Williams' of the rugby world!). Don't have a figure though. Did a quick search but my Japanese isn't good enough to peg a number down yet... :0

I can't believe Shane Williams! Ha! Fair play to the little guy.

Yep, although it significantly reduces the amount of people he can accuse of racism

funky penguin · 14-06-2012 2:40am

wonton wrote: »

any idea if the japanese dude that joined with stade francais has gotten any game time?

and did you see shane williams is off to japan too?

youd think all these players moving there might generate some interest.

No idea about the guy in stade, didn't know about it!

The thing about these guys moving here is that they public just has no idea who they are in the first place, and rugby isn't big enough to generate enough hype about them (in comparison to beckam in LA for example).

However, the world cup, if marketed well, will generate HUGE interest. If hype is created to a certain level, Japan will follow. I've already been telling kids about it, and played a bit of tag rugby with the baseball squad. They picked it up fairly quickly.

errlloyd · 14-06-2012 5:18pm

Geordan Murphy, Lewis Moody and Leon Lloyd going to a bit of a cyprus rugby fund raiser next month. Pretty sound of the lads.

http://www.facebook.com/events/137446766379060/

KenSwee · 14-06-2012 10:28pm

Deleted User wrote: »

after seeing the Finnish jersey, I've been thinking about moving across!

I already own it. Didn't get me a run out though!

Beery Eyed · 20-06-2012 3:11am

It doesn't get a lot of coverage obviously but the IRB Junior World Trophy (the next tier down from the JWC) is up & running now with a few interesting results.

http://www.irb.com/jwrt/index.html

USA started with a good win over Tonga. Also Chile, of all teams, beat Russia by a street (I must admit I was completely ignorant of any type of rugby setup in Chile before this).

Georgia beat Canada & Japan beat Zimbabwe in what sounded like a thriller.

Good to see the underage teams of the next tier of nations getting this type of exposure to competitive international rugby early on.

I had heard mention that the bottom placed team from this years JWC goes down to this tournament, so presumably there's a promotion place available to the winner which is a great incentive as well.

Come on Chile!!

CatFromHue · 20-06-2012 1:02pm

Beery Eyed wrote: »

I had heard mention that the bottom placed team from this years JWC goes down to this tournament, so presumably there's a promotion place available to the winner which is a great incentive as well.

Yeah who ever loses the game between Italy and Fiji will finish last and so next years team will play in the Junior World Trophy.

hardCopy · 20-06-2012 1:17pm

Beery Eyed wrote: »

It doesn't get a lot of coverage obviously but the IRB Junior World Trophy (the next tier down from the JWC) is up & running now with a few interesting results.

http://www.irb.com/jwrt/index.html

USA started with a good win over Tonga. Also Chile, of all teams, beat Russia by a street (I must admit I was completely ignorant of any type of rugby setup in Chile before this).

Georgia beat Canada & Japan beat Zimbabwe in what sounded like a thriller.

Good to see the underage teams of the next tier of nations getting this type of exposure to competitive international rugby early on.

I had heard mention that the bottom placed team from this years JWC goes down to this tournament, so presumably there's a promotion place available to the winner which is a great incentive as well.

Come on Chile!!

Went on a post junior cup trip to South America in 2000, the schools standard wasn't far off our own (although we were never very good) but seemed to be based around private international schools.

WeeBushy · 22-06-2012 12:55am

funky penguin wrote: »

No idea about the guy in stade, didn't know about it!

The thing about these guys moving here is that they public just has no idea who they are in the first place, and rugby isn't big enough to generate enough hype about them (in comparison to beckam in LA for example).

However, the world cup, if marketed well, will generate HUGE interest. If hype is created to a certain level, Japan will follow. I've already been telling kids about it, and played a bit of tag rugby with the baseball squad. They picked it up fairly quickly.

You might be a good person to ask - how does Japan afford a professional league? Quite a few SH players go there for a pay cheque, but if the game is so small nationally, where does the money come from to pay them? And are the game played in front of one man and his dog?

It's a league that's always intrigued me.

ormond lad · 22-06-2012 1:05am

WeeBushy wrote: »

You might be a good person to ask - how does Japan afford a professional league? Quite a few SH players go there for a pay cheque, but if the game is so small nationally, where does the money come from to pay them? And are the game played in front of one man and his dog?

It's a league that's always intrigued me.

AFAIK the money behind te pro league is from big companies like coca cola, toshiba, toyota, honda who sponsor most of the top jap club teams.

Japan has fairly good playing numbers and there's more people playing rugby in japan than most of the traditional top 10 countrys. See here and the game is growing at an enormous rate over there afaik

WeeBushy · 22-06-2012 1:08am

ormond lad wrote: »

AFAIK the money behind te pro league is from big companies like coca cola, toshiba, toyota, honda who sponsor most of the top jap club teams.

Japan has fairly good playing numbers and there's more people playing rugby in japan than most of the traditional top 10 countrys. See here and the game is growing at an enormous rate over there afaik

I wonder if there are any stats available for attendances and viewing numbers, because they're not going to fund a league that's not giving them a return for their money in advertisement etc.

funky penguin · 22-06-2012 1:38am

I think it has to do with Japanese mentality more than anything else.

First thing to understand is that the population of Japan is HUGE. Tokyo alone has 22 million people. The country as a whole is about 130 million or so.

So, even if there is a niche market, the audience for it is still going to be relatively big.

The rugby audiences (and clubs) as scattered around the country too, near the heavily populated areas, especially Tokyo. This, of course, is completely understandable. Where I am, it's virtually non-existant. League games just aren't played close to me.....and I live in a city of over 1/2 million people.

The Japanese punter will also gladly pay a lot of money for entertainment. There's a saying that all they do is make money and spend it asap. I have no idea what prices are for tickets, but it would not surprise me in the slightest if they were expensive.

Also, as Ormond pointed out, the teams have no problems in getting sponsorship. And Japan absolutely loves a brand, so they embrace it.

JonnyF · 25-06-2012 9:28am

The Yanks had 17,000 people turn up to watch them play Italy in Houston on Saturday night. They lost 30-10 with two red cards unfortunately but they're playing Ireland next summer so will be hoping for an even better turn out then.

Interesting piece in the Guardian where Nigel Melville says they're 2-3 years away from a pro league

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012/jun/24/american-sports-fans-warming-rugby

KenSwee · 25-06-2012 10:07am

I'd like to put a question out.

What do you think is necessary to put a tier 2 or 3 country into tier 1?

My suggestion would be to set up a buddy system where one tier 1 country would provide access of it's organisation to a tier 2 or better, a tier 3 country. It could be in the form of regular meetings with both organisations, financial help, tours, player exchanges or even sponsorship. Although in these times, it most unlikely given that the most of benefit would probably be one way.

I'm sure others have better ideas.

JonnyF · 26-06-2012 2:44pm

Some of that Buddy idea could work, i know france have a really good record of playing matches against Romania and other european teams, remember hearing something about the sending Romania or Georgia a coach on secondment for a while too recently enough.

Player exchange would be tricky to manage though. For the tier 2 country it could be great to have their players playing in the Rabo or HCup but you'd have to make sure they would still be released for test matches so you avoid the whole top14 situation where PI teams can't get any of their players or guys like Samu Manoa at Saints have to decide between playing for the US or keeping their club job.

tolosenc · 26-06-2012 8:53pm

JonnyF wrote: »

They lost 30-10 with two red cards

Two joke shop red cards. I'm not suggesting that we be lenient on emerging nations to try to grow support, but having Garces there indulging himself (the first red was for a late tackle) can't have helped.

funky penguin · 08-09-2012 2:13pm

Sorry to bump, but I had the opportunity to go to a Top League game the evening.

It was Kobe Steelers vs. Ricoh Black Rams. (so I got to see Jacque Fourie play ^_^).

It was an initiative to move a game outside of the hotspots, to try get a new fanbase/spread the good word etc etc.

The ticket was free. In fact, about 50% of the people who went did so with free tickets. I got mine through the school I work in, and a crap load of tickets were given to school kids. Have to say, I was surprised with the amount of kids I saw there, mostly with families (and many anguished looking fathers trying to explain the rules). Most families had packed 'bento' (like a ready meal but reeeaaaallly nice) boxes which they bought for cheap on site, emphasizing the family day out atmosphere.

The teams.....

Kobe are traditionally the stronger (apparently), and they came storming out the blocks, their No.7 scoring a fantastic individual try. Some great footwork, but some shody defence too. They kind of lapsed though and Ricoh came back into the game with their own try in the 'championship' minutes of the second half. Kobe got it together though, and ended up winning 15-23. Tight game made for good watching, but these are the things I noticed:

Handling errors were quite frequent. I know it's easy to criticize from the bench, but you wouldn't get away with some of them in the Rabo.

As a result, I saw a crap load of scrums. The new 3 part call, 'crouch, touch, set' seems to work nicely, as I can only recall 2 resets, and no penalties from the scrums (that I can recall). Could have just been the teams. Digressing a bit.

Lineouts were mega competitive, and cleanly run.

Mauls were regularly used. Kobe were especially effective with them.

I haven't seen so much 'tennis' since the law changes about 4(?) years ago. That could be a Japanese thing though....I dunno.

Tackling was strong and precise at times, while school boyish at others.

Backline moves were there, but handling errors and a very 'old-school' nature to them, meant a lot of line breaks came from individual effort rather than use of space.

Finally, the Japanese aren't afraid of big hits. There were some sickening hits.

Overall, that might seem a bit negative, but there was a lot to cheer about. It was close, physical, competitive and there were some nice tries. It was definitely better than I was expecting.

As a small aside, the crowd were great. Very vocal, with lots of chants and dramatic 'ooooohs' and 'aaaaaahhhs' during big hits or line breaks.

EDIT: Here's a crappy iPhone pic:

International Tier 2/3/4 Thread

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