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FG lies on property taxation

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  • 18-02-2011 11:21am
    #1
    Auctionmcd
    Closed Accounts Posts: 103 ✭✭


    I am thoroughly sick and tired that apparently FG have got away with claiming that they will not impose a Property tax. This is simply not true. They will not directly impose it but ill empower Local County Councils with the means to generate revenue by introducing Property taxes at their discretion and similarly increase rates including water rates.
    I point you to an extract from the FG manifesto which clearly gives this power to the Councils (Which predominately are controlled by FG) and please bear in mind that these councillors have a 4 year period of grace before they need to answer to the electorate and as such to the homeowners they will be punishing severely.



    Fine Gael will restore power to Local Government. Recognising the disconnect between local authorities,
    councillors and their respective communities Fine Gael will empower local authorities to solve problems at a local level.

    16.1 Local Government Reform


    Restoring Power to Local Level:
    We will confront the traditional, centralised top down approach to delivery and responsibility of local services by transferring powers and services from unelected Quangos to
    Local Authorities in areas such as job and housing supports. By doing so we intend to make local authorities more relevant to the communities they serve and to give people a say in how local services are provided.


    Now tell me where the term Stealth taxation comes from? I believe FG have many hidden Stealth taxes in their manifesto which makes them appear like a low tax party
    Tagged:


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    #2
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    As I said in the other thread,local councillors have too to be reelected so will need to justify any revenue they raise or face the boot.

    So I don't see the problem.The funding has to come from somewhere and it's as difficult for the politicians in a local sense to be unfair as it is in the national sense.
    Theres no loss of accountability here.
    Most civilised democracies have local councils with finance raising powers.The money has to come from somewhere,whether local or national it amounts to the same cost to the tax payer.


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    #3
    ednwireland
    Registered Users Posts: 14,301 ✭✭✭✭ednwireland


    aaah another low post count user, where you all coming from ?

    My weather

    https://www.ecowitt.net/home/share?authorize=96CT1F



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    #4
    telekon
    Registered Users Posts: 4,425 ✭✭✭telekon


    jmayo wrote: »
    Well it makes a change to see a low count poster posting positively about FG.
    The amount of low count posters who see SF as the only party to put the people first or the amount of low count posters that believe for all ff's sins they are the only party with the right ideas for the future is kinda noticable.

    Obviusly FG have finally woken up to internet forums.

    In this thread? Where??? :confused:


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    #5
    jmayo
    Registered Users Posts: 13,098 ✭✭✭✭jmayo


    telekon wrote: »
    In this thread? Where??? :confused:

    Ooops got it wrong :mad:
    Only read down to restoring power to local government, not entire post....

    Ah well obviously FG haven't discovered the web yet and the poster is one of those other types of "objective" posters.


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    #6
    telekon
    Registered Users Posts: 4,425 ✭✭✭telekon


    jmayo wrote: »
    Ooops got it wrong :mad:
    Only read down to restoring power to local government, not entire post....

    Ah well obviously FG haven't discovered the web yet and the poster is one of those other types of "objective" posters.

    LOL! :D

    Oh well, your post might encourage first timers to come on board to counteract all the attack trolls...


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    #7
    syklops
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,969 ✭✭✭✭syklops


    One of the major criticisms of the sitting government has been so called 'parish pump politics", where by local issues get dealt with on a national level either in the Dail or in committee meetings. Surely this is an attempt by FG to take local issues back to the locality.


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    #8
    Auctionmcd
    Closed Accounts Posts: 103 ✭✭Auctionmcd


    jmayo wrote: »
    Ooops got it wrong :mad:
    Only read down to restoring power to local government, not entire post....

    Ah well obviously FG haven't discovered the web yet and the poster is one of those other types of "objective" posters.
    Firstly I do not support SF and I used to vote for Billy Timmins father Goddfrey, have since become apolitical. I vote for the person not the party but am sick of lies.


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    #9
    telekon
    Registered Users Posts: 4,425 ✭✭✭telekon


    Auctionmcd wrote: »
    Firstly I do not support SF and I used to vote for Billy Timmins father Goddfrey, have since become apolitical. I vote for the person not the party but am sick of lies.

    Are you not embarrassed to admit this? :rolleyes:


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    #10
    Auctionmcd
    Closed Accounts Posts: 103 ✭✭Auctionmcd


    syklops wrote: »
    One of the major criticisms of the sitting government has been so called 'parish pump politics", where by local issues get dealt with on a national level either in the Dail or in committee meetings. Surely this is an attempt by FG to take local issues back to the locality.

    Do you really believe FG or any other party care about you or me?, its all about votes, they are hiding this stealth tax so they can claim that it isnt them bringing it in. All negative posters here please show me where they state clearly that they are bringing in a property tax? The fact is they claim they arent, THAT IS PURE LIES


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    #11
    Auctionmcd
    Closed Accounts Posts: 103 ✭✭Auctionmcd


    telekon wrote: »
    Are you not embarrassed to admit this? :rolleyes:

    Why would I be ashamed to vote for a person who I believe has the characteristics to be fair and honest regardless of political party, I dont give a damn about which party they belong to. There is a lack of sincerely honest politicians and IF I can find one that I believe in they will get my vote.


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    #12
    Auctionmcd
    Closed Accounts Posts: 103 ✭✭Auctionmcd


    ednwireland wrote: »
    aaah another low post count user, where you all coming from ?

    God you have a poor attitude, just because I havent posted many times before just means I am selective about what I talk about. Doesnt reflect on my honesty or the validity of my opinion. Basically I made a comment based on the FG manifesto which I am surely entitled to do as I still believe this is a democracy albeit a declining one with our sovereignty being eroded daily and FG trying to discard our 'National' language.

    If you have a problem with my right to express an opinion please feel free to contact the moderators and get my thread removed.


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    #13
    telekon
    Registered Users Posts: 4,425 ✭✭✭telekon


    Auctionmcd wrote: »
    Why would I be ashamed to vote for a person who I believe has the characteristics to be fair and honest regardless of political party, I dont give a damn about which party they belong to. There is a lack of sincerely honest politicians and IF I can find one that I believe in they will get my vote.

    Is this even possible? Ever hear of the whip system? Politicians vote the way they're told.


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    #14
    Monty Burnz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,455 ✭✭✭✭Monty Burnz


    So FG are going to balance the budget by two thirds with spending cuts and by one third with tax increases.

    Labour are going to do it with one third spending cuts (have they specified where yet?) and two thirds tax increases.

    Therefore Labour are saying they will raise taxes by twice the amount that FG do.

    Therefore, anybody railing against FG for tax rises (such as introducing a property tax, or whatever) should never, ever, in a million years vote for labour as they are going to raise your taxes by twice as much by their own admission.


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    #15
    Auctionmcd
    Closed Accounts Posts: 103 ✭✭Auctionmcd


    telekon wrote: »
    Is this even possible? Ever hear of the whip system? Politicians vote the way they're told.
    I agree totally, we the voting public cannot effect the policies. Thats why I highlighted IF in my statement. Its like finding a needle in a haystack but without hope there is nothing and I hope that somewhere there are politicians with some common decency that will voice the opinions of the people rather than the party line. NAIVE I KNOW


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    #16
    telekon
    Registered Users Posts: 4,425 ✭✭✭telekon


    Auctionmcd wrote: »
    I agree totally, we the voting public cannot effect the policies. Thats why I highlighted IF in my statement. Its like finding a needle in a haystack but without hope there is nothing and I hope that somewhere there are politicians with some common decency that will voice the opinions of the people rather than the party line. NAIVE I KNOW

    So you're voting Independent, yea?


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    #17
    Monty Burnz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,455 ✭✭✭✭Monty Burnz


    Auctionmcd wrote: »
    FG trying to discard our 'National' language.
    If you are so keen on it, why are you posting in English?

    Oh yeah, I know why - it's because forcing Irish down the throats of everybody for the last 90 years is a FAILED POLICY. Maybe a new approach is needed? Or should we carry on with a policy that everybody knows is not working? :rolleyes:


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    #18
    Auctionmcd
    Closed Accounts Posts: 103 ✭✭Auctionmcd


    Monty Burnz wrote: »
    So FG are going to balance the budget by two thirds with spending cuts and by one third with tax increases.

    Labour are going to do it with one third spending cuts (have they specified where yet?) and two thirds tax increases.

    Therefore Labour are saying they will raise taxes by twice the amount that FG do.

    Therefore, anybody railing against FG for tax rises (such as introducing a property tax, or whatever) should never, ever, in a million years vote for labour as they are going to raise your taxes by twice as much by their own admission.

    That is my point. FG say 1/3 through taxation but this excludes the stealth taxes they will be imposing at local government level. So the cuts will end up being far more. They are saying they will cut 1/3 through direct taxation at a national level but fail to disclose their local level taxation.


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    #19
    Monty Burnz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,455 ✭✭✭✭Monty Burnz


    Auctionmcd wrote: »
    That is my point. FG say 1/3 through taxation but this excludes the stealth taxes they will be imposing at local government level. So the cuts will end up being far more. They are saying they will cut 1/3 through direct taxation at a national level but fail to disclose their local level taxation.
    Sorry, your point makes no sense at all - if they raise more money by increasing taxes, then why would they also cut spending more?

    So you understand this stuff at all?


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    #20
    Auctionmcd
    Closed Accounts Posts: 103 ✭✭Auctionmcd


    Monty Burnz wrote: »
    If you are so keen on it, why are you posting in English?

    Oh yeah, I know why - it's because forcing Irish down the throats of everybody for the last 90 years is a FAILED POLICY. Maybe a new approach is needed? Or should we carry on with a policy that everybody knows is not working? :rolleyes:

    I never said I was keen on it and no I dont speak Irish. I didnt say the system was good or bad but surely discarding the Irish language cannot be good for future generations?
    If you could explain how FG policy will help promote the Irish language it might help?


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    #21
    telekon
    Registered Users Posts: 4,425 ✭✭✭telekon


    Auctionmcd wrote: »
    I never said I was keen on it and no I dont speak Irish. I didnt say the system was good or bad but surely discarding the Irish language cannot be good for future generations?
    If you could explain how FG policy will help promote the Irish language it might help?

    You dont speak our 'National' language?!? :eek::eek::eek:


    Uafasach ar fad!


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    #22
    Auctionmcd
    Closed Accounts Posts: 103 ✭✭Auctionmcd


    Monty Burnz wrote: »
    Sorry, your point makes no sense at all - if they raise more money by increasing taxes, then why would they also cut spending more?

    So you understand this stuff at all?

    Because they have overestimated growth and will compensate this overestimation but cutting spending and increasing taxes.
    Dont proclaim them to be the saviours here, they have not stated that the 30,000 public job cuts will be on the higher earners only.
    They have not declared this stealth taxation policy.

    If you believe they will not through local councils bring in a property tax then say so, and when they are elected and this becomes a fact remember that.


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    #23
    jimaneejeebus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 132 ✭✭jimaneejeebus


    Originally Posted by ednwireland viewpost.gif
    aaah another low post count user, where you all coming from ?
    Auctionmcd wrote: »

    If you have a problem with my right to express an opinion please feel free to contact the moderators and get my thread removed.

    It's ok-you probably didn't realise you were speaking to the king of the internet?


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    #24
    Auctionmcd
    Closed Accounts Posts: 103 ✭✭Auctionmcd


    telekon wrote: »
    You dont speak our 'National' language?!? :eek::eek::eek:


    Uafasach ar fad!

    Do you speak it fluently?


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    #25
    telekon
    Registered Users Posts: 4,425 ✭✭✭telekon


    jimaneejeebus wrote: »
    It's ok-you probably didn't realise you were speaking to the king of the internet?

    That a question or a statment? If its the former, I can assure you he's not the king of the internet.


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    #26
    Monty Burnz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,455 ✭✭✭✭Monty Burnz


    Auctionmcd wrote: »
    If you could explain how FG policy will help promote the Irish language it might help?
    If it is an issue for you, then I suggest you look up the rationale for their proposed changes - changes which are intended to save the language, not kill it.

    The fact that you don't even speak the language makes you look a bit hypocritical in my view - it doesn't sound like you care enough about the language to learn it properly yourself.


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    #27
    telekon
    Registered Users Posts: 4,425 ✭✭✭telekon


    Auctionmcd wrote: »
    Do you speak it fluently?

    I speak it enough to get by. Got a B in my leaving. I dont know why youre getting so hot and bothered about something you admit to knowing nothing about?? :confused:


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    #28
    Auctionmcd
    Closed Accounts Posts: 103 ✭✭Auctionmcd


    Monty Burnz wrote: »
    If it is an issue for you, then I suggest you look up the rationale for their proposed changes - changes which are intended to save the language, not kill it.

    The fact that you don't even speak the language makes you look a bit hypocritical in my view - it doesn't sound like you care enough about the language to learn it properly yourself.

    I did learn the language unfortunately like many in the 80's I was forced to emigrate and had to learn numerous other languages to secure employment. In that time I had to do what I had to do to survive.


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    #29
    Monty Burnz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,455 ✭✭✭✭Monty Burnz


    Auctionmcd wrote: »
    Because they have overestimated growth and will compensate this overestimation but cutting spending and increasing taxes.
    So Labour will have to more than double FG's proposed taxes? Because they are using the same growth assumptions as FG. Man, the news just gets worse and worse for the Labour Party.


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    #30
    Auctionmcd
    Closed Accounts Posts: 103 ✭✭Auctionmcd


    telekon wrote: »
    I speak it enough to get by. Got a B in my leaving. I dont know why youre getting so hot and bothered about something you admit to knowing nothing about?? :confused:
    Well obviously the system worked to some extent with you. I am bothered for exactly that reason. I cannot speak the language but I would like my children to be able to and my grandchildren. Does it bother you that a lot of decisions are being made by EUROPE and not Ireland?
    Maybe I am a little uneducated as to exactly what the parties propose to do to save our language but in my opinion and I say it is just my opinion I believe removing it as a core subject can only do harm.

    But as this is a democracy I can freely state my opinion as you can state yours.


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    #31
    Black Swan
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 47,220 CMod ✭✭✭✭Black Swan


    REMINDER...
    A few of the posts on this thread are tending to get a bit personal, and going off-topic (e.g., talking about post count, etc). Please focus on the thread topic, not each other. Thanks, Black Swan


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