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DTT Mt Leinster, Ch45 blocking Presely in the South East

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12467…15

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    #92
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    marclt wrote: »
    The offered response to viewers in Wexford wanting to watch Irish DTT will be - unplug your UK aerial and away you go!

    Marc
    Lol.
    Fat chance.


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    #93
    mrdtv
    Closed Accounts Posts: 456 ✭✭mrdtv


    marclt wrote: »
    Hi Pye/mrdtv

    I am south west of Preseli, but am so close to it, there is no interference to Preseli on the Ch. 42, 45, 49 frequencies. In fact they are all 100%.

    I don't really see RTE moving frequencies that have been agreed. In fact, if the are interference problems then they are more than likely to occur in the Fishguard/Dinas Cross to Newport stretch and maybe down towards St. Davids from Mt. Leinster.

    But you could argue that these are in a Preseli blackspot anyway thanks to the Preseli mountain range and as a result there are number of tx sites (like Trefin, Fishguard and Newport) that fill in the PSB gaps. And to demonstrate about overspill from other areas, the St. Davids transmitter uses ch 23 and 26 - which is shared with Mt. Leinster analogue. The St. Dogmaels tx overlooking Cardigan and the coast also uses Ch. 23 and 26 too.

    Will RTE move frequency if the Irish signals are causing problems to Welsh viewers? ... Probably not! There is a 56 nautical mile expanse of water between Rosslare and Fishguard... I'm sure the juice will be upped sufficiently so that no interference is caused on either side of the water. Or the use of the Group A analogue frequencies could be considered...

    The offered response to viewers in Wexford wanting to watch Irish DTT will be - unplug your UK aerial and away you go!

    Marc

    ROFLOUL. The actual response will be to disconnect the RTE aerial. In the non-overspill areas this is now the reality: its called Freesat and RTE are not on that EPG. Soon they are going to lose audience share bigtime. And $$$ in revenues.


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    #94
    Satdog
    Registered Users Posts: 132 ✭✭Satdog


    Anyone know if Mt Leinster is still broadcasting on all 4 Muxs?

    Thanks in advance.


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    #95
    slegs
    Registered Users Posts: 3,008 ✭✭✭slegs


    mrdtv wrote: »
    ROFLOUL. The actual response will be to disconnect the RTE aerial. In the non-overspill areas this is now the reality: its called Freesat and RTE are not on that EPG. Soon they are going to lose audience share bigtime. And $$$ in revenues.

    Hardly a big concern for RTE if a part of Wexford dont use DTT. in the larger scheme of things very few people in Ireland can receive UK Freeview. Freesat and DTT will go hand in hand as an alternative to Sky/UPC. Freesat may actually drive takeup of public free DTT in a way that Pay DTT could never.


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    #96
    bothyhead
    Registered Users Posts: 442 ✭✭bothyhead


    Satdog wrote: »
    Anyone know if Mt Leinster is still broadcasting on all 4 Muxs?

    Thanks in advance.

    I've just checked now:

    CHs 39, 49 are still broadcasting RTE stations

    CHs 42, 42 are not broadcasting any stations, but quality is at 10% (strength = 76%) - indicating that something is being transmitted.


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    #97
    Satdog
    Registered Users Posts: 132 ✭✭Satdog


    Would be great if Ch 42 and 45 were shut down completely so that we could get the Com Muxs from Preseli. I may dream on.


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    #98
    Antenna
    Registered Users Posts: 2,306 ✭✭✭Antenna


    marclt wrote: »
    And to demonstrate about overspill from other areas, the St. Davids transmitter uses ch 23 and 26 - which is shared with Mt. Leinster analogue. The St. Dogmaels tx overlooking Cardigan and the coast also uses Ch. 23 and 26 too.

    though with opposite polarisation


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    #99
    Gerry Wicklow
    Registered Users Posts: 4,542 ✭✭✭Gerry Wicklow


    Satdog wrote: »
    Would be great if Ch 42 and 45 were shut down completely so that we could get the Com Muxs from Preseli. I may dream on.
    Dont forget 49 also.

    BTW has anyone noticed how Mt Leinster tends to go off around lunchtime... Must be a union rule or something:D

    Mr RTE if you read this by all means continue to use Ch39 for tests/service but dont block Preseli muxes with dead carriers just for the hell of it.:mad:


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    #100
    mrdtv
    Closed Accounts Posts: 456 ✭✭mrdtv


    slegs wrote: »
    Hardly a big concern for RTE if a part of Wexford dont use DTT. in the larger scheme of things very few people in Ireland can receive UK Freeview. Freesat and DTT will go hand in hand as an alternative to Sky/UPC. Freesat may actually drive takeup of public free DTT in a way that Pay DTT could never.

    Nonsense! If people are using Freesat then they won't bother with RTE as it isn't on the EPG and you need another remote.

    In this economic disaster we need lots AND LOTS AND LOTS of spending cuts and RTE needs to save every euro.The tests should be reduced to a 1 MUX system. Please justify why licence fee payer revenue should be diverted to technical tests rather than programme budgets. Technogeeks should not be subsidised at the expense of quality public service Irish broadcasting...


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    #101
    marclt
    Registered Users Posts: 844 ✭✭✭marclt


    Still no joy at receiving Ch39 here... will keep fiddling!


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    #102
    marclt
    Registered Users Posts: 844 ✭✭✭marclt


    mrdtv wrote: »
    Nonsense! If people are using Freesat then they won't bother with RTE as it isn't on the EPG and you need another remote.

    In this economic disaster we need lots AND LOTS AND LOTS of spending cuts and RTE needs to save every euro.The tests should be reduced to a 1 MUX system. Please justify why licence fee payer revenue should be diverted to technical tests rather than programme budgets. Technogeeks should not be subsidised at the expense of quality public service Irish broadcasting...

    But if the budget is already agreed, then it will be spent! They are hardly going to divert the money back up the line for spend in another department now are they?

    If negotiations are on-going with OneVision, then who knows who exactly is paying for that element of the trial? Wouldn't RTE get a preferential rate on electricity anyway... they do use a lot of it!


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    #103
    mrdtv
    Closed Accounts Posts: 456 ✭✭mrdtv


    marclt wrote: »
    But if the budget is already agreed, then it will be spent! They are hardly going to divert the money back up the line for spend in another department now are they?

    Its ****ing peanuts. Not remotely relevant.


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    #104
    mrdtv
    Closed Accounts Posts: 456 ✭✭mrdtv


    marclt wrote: »
    Still no joy at receiving Ch39 here... will keep fiddling!

    That is interesting given that in NW Wales it is romping in... (Interim conclusion: very low power transmissions..)


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    #105
    marclt
    Registered Users Posts: 844 ✭✭✭marclt


    mrdtv wrote: »
    Its ****ing peanuts. Not remotely relevant.

    But you're saying the tests are a waste of money.. and now you're saying they cost peanuts!

    When you've made up your mind... !


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    #106
    STB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,178 ✭✭✭STB


    mrdtv wrote: »
    Nonsense! If people are using Freesat then they won't bother with RTE as it isn't on the EPG and you need another remote.

    In this economic disaster we need lots AND LOTS AND LOTS of spending cuts and RTE needs to save every euro.The tests should be reduced to a 1 MUX system. Please justify why licence fee payer revenue should be diverted to technical tests rather than programme budgets. Technogeeks should not be subsidised at the expense of quality public service Irish broadcasting...

    Dont pretend to understand Irish viewing habits. Regardless of the dissing you read a lot of people watch RTE terrestrially and via cable/sky especially for news and sport.

    As more people discover the combo boxes sat/dtt free option you will see a lot ditching PAY TV. Oh yeah and thats on one remote. They start at €180/190 - MPEG4 combo boxes a little dearer than the cheapo MPEG2 but you pay for the quality.

    You do not need a freesat box to watch free satelitte.


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    #107
    slegs
    Registered Users Posts: 3,008 ✭✭✭slegs


    mrdtv wrote: »
    Nonsense! If people are using Freesat then they won't bother with RTE as it isn't on the EPG and you need another remote.

    In this economic disaster we need lots AND LOTS AND LOTS of spending cuts and RTE needs to save every euro.The tests should be reduced to a 1 MUX system. Please justify why licence fee payer revenue should be diverted to technical tests rather than programme budgets. Technogeeks should not be subsidised at the expense of quality public service Irish broadcasting...

    You may not want RTE but dont even begin to suggest that the vast majority of people in Ireland wont want to receive digital RTE from some source whether that be paid or free.

    Ideal scenario is RTE on freesat - wont happen
    Second is free UK TV on DTT - wont happen (except for those few who can manage a setup involving UK freeview)
    Third is Combos or Freesat/DTT setup - only game in town for real free TV
    After that you are paying whether its Sky/UPC or Pay DTT...

    What are you suggesting happens here? RTE rearrange their Mux plans so that Wexford people can receive freeview. Possible but hardly a priority.


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    #108
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,405 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    slegs wrote: »
    You may not want RTE but dont even begin to suggest that the vast majority of people in Ireland wont want to receive digital RTE from some source whether that be paid or free.

    Ideal scenario is RTE on freesat - wont happen
    Second is free UK TV on DTT - wont happen (except for those few who can manage a setup involving UK freeview)
    Third is Combos or Freesat/DTT setup - only game in town for real free TV
    After that you are paying whether its Sky/UPC or Pay DTT...

    What are you suggesting happens here? RTE rearrange their Mux plans so that Wexford people can receive freeview. Possible but hardly a priority.

    The combo SAT/DTT TV with a combined EPG from both sources is the ideal, which will appear in about a year. The UK market will be there for such a beast as Freeview HD will privide some channels, and FreeSAT will provide others. Free TV is very much appreciated in the UK, as it is here. Freesat is only going a while, the word is not out here yet. DTT could well make it popular. No media is reporting on it, but $ky are blasting the country with marketing for HD from them. The wonderful marketing word FREE would undo all of that. In high signal areas, the aerial is not required, rabbit ears will do.


    Well, after ASO, they still have the analogue frequecies to use. And if they interfere with UK Freeview, they could use them and so remove the CCI. The interference goes both ways.


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    #109
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    Sam Russell wrote: »
    . No media is reporting on it, but $ky are blasting the country with marketing for HD from them. The wonderful marketing word FREE would undo all of that. In high signal areas, the aerial is not required, rabbit ears will do.

    Read my sig.


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    #110
    Gerry Wicklow
    Registered Users Posts: 4,542 ✭✭✭Gerry Wicklow


    slegs wrote: »
    What are you suggesting happens here? RTE rearrange their Mux plans so that Wexford people can receive freeview. Possible but hardly a priority.

    As Sam Russell also points out it works both ways. I cant get either signal properly, they jam each other. What Irish commercial broadcaster would be happy to know they cannot be received in some parts of the country because of basic technical stupidity?
    I'm also wondering what will happen in the summer when the skip is up... widespread chaos on both sides of the sea depending on the weather.


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    #111
    The Cush
    Registered Users Posts: 15,500 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    STB wrote: »
    Dont pretend to understand Irish viewing habits. Regardless of the dissing you read a lot of people watch RTE terrestrially and via cable/sky especially for news and sport.

    As more people discover the combo boxes sat/dtt free option you will see a lot ditching PAY TV.
    slegs wrote: »
    What are you suggesting happens here? RTE rearrange their Mux plans so that Wexford people can receive freeview. Possible but hardly a priority.

    Well said STB and slegs, to those of us west of Dublin/Wicklow/Wexford the Wales ASO and CCI are non events.

    At some stage we will launch our DTT service (its inevitable) and I believe it will include a pay tv element - OneVision/EasyTV/whoever, together with freesat/FTA we will have sufficient interference free tv channels. If we want more Sky/UPC will be happy to oblige.

    Regarding CCI - forget about it, we are testing on internationally allocated frequencies - its not going to change.

    It may surprise some but the Irish channels are the most viewed by Sky subscribers. My brother was offered a €5 sub option to continue viewing the Irish channels with the Sky box when he cancelled earlier this year, he declined stating that he had them thru the aerial and was changing to freesat. We also receive the DTT tests from Woodcock Hill and Mullaghanish.
    Many viewers may be surprised to see how small are the figures for individual Sky services, given the publicity that Sky sometimes generates. Sky One has fewer people watching it than watch TG4, while Sky Sports has just a single viewer in every 100. Sky Sports 2 is on a par with Ireland's Channel 6 and with Setanta Ireland at just one viewer in every 200, on average.

    Irish Independent Jun 08

    National Channel Share - Nov 2009
    (Individuals - all persons aged 4 and over in TV homes)
    RTE 1 23.7%|BBC 1 4.6%|Sky 1 1.9%
    RTE 2 10.3%|BBC 2 2.5%|Sky News 0.8%
    TV 3 14.2%|UTV 4.3%|Living 0.9%
    TG 4 2.2%|CH 4 2.9%|Comedy Central 0.9%
    3e 1.0%|E4 1.0%|||
    Setanta 0.5%||

    Source: AGB Nielsen Media Research

    Sam Russell wrote: »
    Well, after ASO, they still have the analogue frequecies to use. And if they interfere with UK Freeview, they could use them and so remove the CCI. The interference goes both ways.

    After ASO the plan for the four analogue frequencies are that two will go to DTT (1 RTE / 1 commercial), the other two frequencies will be allocated to the Digital Dividend as part of the present Dept of Comms policy. These frequencies are also ITU allocated to DTT and internationally coordinated with the UK.


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    #112
    slegs
    Registered Users Posts: 3,008 ✭✭✭slegs


    Gerry Wicklow wrote: »
    As Sam Russell also points out it works both ways. I cant get either signal properly, they jam each other. What Irish commercial broadcaster would be happy to know they cannot be received in some parts of the country because of basic technical stupidity?
    I'm also wondering what will happen in the summer when the skip is up... widespread chaos on both sides of the sea depending on the weather.

    A Question here...is that you cant receive either because you are trying to receive both. What if you didnt have an aerial pointing at Wales? Would you be able to receive Mt Leinster? In that case, you can receive one or the other or am I misinterpreting you?


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    #113
    Satdog
    Registered Users Posts: 132 ✭✭Satdog


    Gerry Wicklow wrote: »
    As Sam Russell also points out it works both ways. I cant get either signal properly, they jam each other. What Irish commercial broadcaster would be happy to know they cannot be received in some parts of the country because of basic technical stupidity?
    I'm also wondering what will happen in the summer when the skip is up... widespread chaos on both sides of the sea depending on the weather.

    Can you try tuning in Ch39 (618 MHz) in manually? This channel isn't affected by the Preseli Muxs.


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    #114
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    slegs wrote: »
    A Question here...is that you cant receive either because you are trying to receive both. What if you didnt have an aerial pointing at Wales? Would you be able to receive Mt Leinster? In that case, you can receive one or the other or am I misinterpreting you?
    If you have a presely aerial in wexford/south wicklow and other parts of the south east -you will get close to 20 psb radio and tv channels from wales free and untouched by rte interference.
    You will get nothing on 3 of the mt leinster channels that rte are "supposed" to be marketing to one vision.

    Now the point is,who in their right mind would take down their presely aerial so as to allow the other mt leinster channels to come in when you get BBC1,2,ITV1 and 2,BBC3,4, channel four and five etc for free and one vision would want you to pay for that??!

    No one will be disconnecting their presely aerials anytime soon and the freeview boxes and the ability to tune the channels in on digital tv's is spreading like wildfire in the area.


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    #115
    slegs
    Registered Users Posts: 3,008 ✭✭✭slegs


    Deleted User wrote: »
    If you have a presely aerial in wexford/south wicklow and other parts of the south east -you will get close to 20 psb radio and tv channels from wales free and untouched by rte interference.
    You will get nothing on 3 of the mt leinster channels that rte are "supposed" to be marketing to one vision.

    Now the point is,who in their right mind would take down their presely aerial so as to allow the other mt leinster channels to come in when you get BBC1,2,ITV1 and 2,BBC3,4, channel four and five etc for free and one vision would want you to pay for that??!

    No one will be disconnecting their presely aerials anytime soon and the freeview boxes and the ability to tune the channels in on digital tv's is spreading like wildfire in the area.

    Not suggesting that he SHOULD take down his aerial merely pointing out that IF he did then he would be able to receive RTE on DTT. This was just a clarification on his previous statement that he couldnt receive RTE as there was interference. The fact is the interference is a direct consequence of the Preseli aerial. Nor would I think that he should PAY for DTT to receive channels he can get for free. I wouldnt.

    What people are asking for here is that RTE should realign their Muxes to allow people who pick up overspill from the UK to receive all their channels. All I am saying is that while all this would be great for people of Wicklow/Wexford it is hardly a priority when there are so few people who can receive it and there are other options out there including freesat.


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    #116
    Satdog
    Registered Users Posts: 132 ✭✭Satdog


    There is no interference on Ch39 (Mt Leinster) from the Preseli Muxs as it is so far down the band. This is the way my system is set-up and I only have a standard contract aerial pointing to Preseli. Should testing finish on Ch39 I'll have to look at other options but for the monent Irish DTT and the Preseli PSB Muxs are coming in loud and clear.


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    #117
    hamo31
    Registered Users Posts: 15 ✭hamo31


    Just as Satdog said, RTE1, 2, TV3, TG4 and RTE news are being received perfectly in Wexford on Ch39 as well as the PSB channels from Wales.
    Like most people in Wexford, I have a UHF aerial pointing to Wales for the BBC etc and RTE / TV3 aerials pointing to Mt Leinster.
    There's no need to take down the BBC aerial.


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    #118
    Gerry Wicklow
    Registered Users Posts: 4,542 ✭✭✭Gerry Wicklow


    Just to clarify. Thanks to local geography I get Mt Leinster and Preseli at similar strengths. I CAN get RTE ch39 (roughly) and Welsh PSBs perfectly. I tried various aerial configurations pointing to Wales or Mt L and in each case just get garbage on 42, 45 and 49. Given that I could get all welsh channels before the tests I don't see why I should sacrifice them for RTE.
    What annoys me more is that the very channels I can't get now from Wales are the very ones that are not on FreeSat, otherwise it would be no contest... bye bye RTE:mad:


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    #119
    mrdtv
    Closed Accounts Posts: 456 ✭✭mrdtv


    slegs wrote: »
    Not suggesting that he SHOULD take down his aerial merely pointing out that IF he did then he would be able to receive RTE on DTT. This was just a clarification on his previous statement that he couldnt receive RTE as there was interference. The fact is the interference is a direct consequence of the Preseli aerial. Nor would I think that he should PAY for DTT to receive channels he can get for free. I wouldnt.

    What people are asking for here is that RTE should realign their Muxes to allow people who pick up overspill from the UK to receive all their channels. All I am saying is that while all this would be great for people of Wicklow/Wexford it is hardly a priority when there are so few people who can receive it and there are other options out there including freesat.

    I detect a great deal of defensiveness in your response to the others. I don't see Irish DTT coming on air anytime soon IF EVER (just google Moody's credit ratings for Ireland, Greece etc.).
    Note: http://www.herald.ie/world-news/ireland-at-fourth-spot-in-europes-credit-misery-list-1977081.html

    The only viable option is a 1 MUX DTT FTA solution: its fantasy land to expect people to pay for UK channels VIA DTT when they are FREE VIA FREESAT. End of discussion in a recession. Sky control premium pay-tv rights for UK & ROI. Therefore a pay DTT service in Ireland is DEAD IN THE WATER. Realpolitik would indicate that:

    a) A 1 mux DTT service went ahead IF AND ONLY IF the economics added up

    b) Interference should be minimised

    c) Its all about REACH. RTE depends on advertising revenues for 50% of its totals so getting to the most eyeballs would be ideal eg UK Freeview boxes, T2 boxes and perhaps Freesat with a FTV card like Fransat, TNTSat, BIS etc as deployed in France.

    Until this is acknowledged viewers with access to UK Freeview DTT and Freesat will continue with RTE analogue transmissions. Why should you take your Preseli, Arfon, Llanddona, Divis, Brougher Mountain or Limavady antenna down especially when FTA HD is coming and you have many more FTA channel choices?

    I find the lack of commercial realism on this board striking given the previous history of failed attempts to launch Irish DTT, the misplaced triumph of optimism over the harsh realities, and the inability to acknowledge that Ireland is a VERY SMALL MARKET with the attendant diseconomies of scale which that alas leads to.


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    #120
    slegs
    Registered Users Posts: 3,008 ✭✭✭slegs


    mrdtv wrote: »
    I detect a great deal of defensiveness in your response to the others. I don't see Irish DTT coming on air anytime soon IF EVER (just google Moody's credit ratings for Ireland, Greece etc.). The only viable option is a 1 MUX DTT FTA solution: its fantasy land to expect people to pay for UK channels VIA DTT when they are FREE VIA FREESAT. End of discussion in a recession. Sky control premium pay-tv rights for UK & ROI. Therefore a pay DTT service in Ireland is DEAD IN THE WATER. Realpolitik would indicate that:

    a) A 1 mux DTT service went ahead IF AND ONLY IF the economics added up

    b) Interference should be minimised

    c) Its all about REACH. RTE depends on advertising revenues for 50% of its totals so getting to the most eyeballs would be ideal eg UK Freeview boxes, T2 boxes and perhaps Freesat with a FTV card like Fransat, TNTSat, BIS etc as deployed in France.

    Until this is acknowledged viewers with access to UK Freeview DTT and Freesat will continue with RTE analogue transmissions. Why should you take your Preseli, Arfon, Llanddona, Divis, Brougher Mountain or Limavady antenna down especially when FTA HD is coming and you have many more FTA channel choices?

    I find the lack of commercial realism on this board striking given the previous history of failed attempts to launch Irish DTT, the misplaced triumph of optimism over the harsh realities, and the inability to acknowledge that Ireland is a VERY SMALL MARKET with the attendant diseconomies of scale which that alas leads to.

    Where is the defensiveness? You are now off on a whole different topic to the one I was discussing. You are confusing your personal wishes with the reality of what may happen. I dont think you actually read any of the posts and just repeat your own blinkered arguments over and over.

    1. DTT will and has to happen if only because there is no VIABLE alternative. Your alternative is pie in the sky and in any case the majority of the investment is now made. The rollout has stopped until the question of what Pay DTT is clarified. When will it officially launch? should be next year but who knows.
    2. I also believe Pay DTT is doomed. I have never promted nor advocated it as a viable. Doesnt mean we cant have a perfectly acceptable PSB DTT service with 6-8 channels.
    3. Freeview means nothing to 90% of the Irish population and is overplayed as a factor on these boards.
    4. If we do end up with a 1 Mux solution for PSB DTT then it will be because Pay DTT is not viable and there arent enough channels to use the other allotted Muxes. It wont have anything to do with UK Freeview and enabling co reception of DTT/Freeview.
    5. Free DTT/Freesat as I have said many times is the way forward.
    6. There will be no shortage of TVs and STBs capable of Irish DTT by mid next year. Most new model TVs since beginning 2008 have MPEG4. STBs will be more affordable by mid next year. We dont need MPEG2 to allow us access to cheap stbs.
    7. Freeview HD DVB-T2 is irrelevant for 90% of the irish population and its only relevance to Irish DTT is that there may be more MPEG4 capable tVs and STBs as a result which is good.
    8. RTE already has reach. Most people get their RTE from SKy/Chorus. By the time analog does switch off MPEG4 will be equivalent to MPEG2 stbs now so there wont be an availability/cost issue for those in the vulnerable category who get RTE from analog.


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    #121
    Digifriendly
    Registered Users Posts: 4,019 ✭✭✭Digifriendly


    slegs wrote: »
    8. RTE already has reach. Most people get their RTE from SKy/Chorus. By the time analog does switch off MPEG4 will be equivalent to MPEG2 stbs now so there wont be an availability/cost issue for those in the vulnerable category who get RTE from analog.

    Have you accurate figures for this?


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