DTT Commercial Multiplexes (was OneVision, Boxer etc...)

Sam Russell wrote: »

I would think the shorter time to Analogue Switch Off the better. 12 months would be plenty. Once it starts, the take up will be very fast as word will spread.

utterly unrealistic.

MPEg4 receiving equipment is only becoming readily available fairly recently (unlike the several years of MPEG2 boxes and TVs in the UK before anyone had a ASO). And could everyone, including the elderly and marginalised people in society all be prepared in 12 months?

May I add that in this country a major concern (in relation to ASOs) are viewers using a combination of analogue terrestrial and FTA satellite. Its thought that a not insignificant number of these viewers might not bother equipping themselves for DTT if a analogue switchoff were to happen (at least in the short term), and would purely watch the UK (and other satellite) channels - until they have to buy a new TV.
This could lead to significant loss in viewers for RTE/TV3 for a few years.
Obviously this was never a concern in the UK, as all the traditional channels are also available FTA on satellite, so such viewers were prepared for ASO anyway if they 'did nothing'.

Sam Russell wrote: »

Once it starts, the take up will be very fast as word will spread.

A DTT service where the only FTA channels is what people already have in analogue????

If in the UK, the only FTA DTT services were the existing 4/5 channels you can be sure that any ASOs would be well in the future at this stage!

Its the additional free channels which led to significant takeup in the UK.

Antenna wrote: »

May I add that in this country a major concern (in relation to ASOs) are viewers using a combination of analogue terrestrial and FTA satellite. Its thought that a not insignificant number of these viewers might not bother equipping themselves for DTT if a analogue switchoff were to happen (at least in the short term), and would purely watch the UK (and other satellite) channels - until they have to buy a new TV.

How many people have FTA Sat? and how many of them look for Analogue transmissions from RTÉ and how many of them look for DTT transmissions from RTÉ. I don't think RTÉ/TV3/TG4 need to worry if those people are either currently viewing DTT or Analogue.

With the 2012 EU recommended switchover date in mind we might take Norway as an example for Ireland in relation to DTT launch and switchover. Similar population size but slightly different terrain.

Norway launched its MPEG-4 DTT service on 1st Sept 2007, began ASO 6 months later (1st Mar 2008) and completed ASO on 1st Dec 2009 - 22 months after ASO started and 28 months after DTT launch. 430 transmitters were converted.

The Minister said in the Dail recently "I want a timescale which meets the objective of our being able to switch off in 2012" during a debate on the current contract negotations. Even by Norwegian standards and their short transition period, if the contracts were signed now with OneVision, for launch next summer we would fail to meet any 2012 deadline let alone Jan 1, 2012.

Another drawback here is we are a little short of money and oil resources unlike Norway.

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Norway has more transmitters NORTH of the Artic circle than we do in total.

Now come Ted do we really need transmitters North of the Artic circle*

*Couldn't resist sorry!

How many transmitters do we have in total? I asked this before and still haven't got an answer.

Sponge Bob wrote: »

I enumerated them once, search!!!

Since you have already done it, why not tell me? why bother posting!

Elmo wrote: »

How many transmitters do we have in total? I asked this before and still haven't got an answer.

RTÉ NL list of analogue television transmitter sites attached

Sam Russell wrote: »

Why do we need a long time to switch off analogue? If the infrastructure is in place, which it is, why do we need more than 12 months for people to get their STB? It is not new technology, the boxes are not dear - they can be bought in Asia for less than $20 in relatively small numbers. A bulk order, and we would be sorted.

Sam, you are not addressing the points made in my previous post.
12 months ? its not anymore likely than a suggestion to switch off FM radio in Ireland in 12 months time and everyone have DAB.


For a start Norway and elsewhere do not have to worry about similar problems to here - significant numbers of viewers at present using a combination of Irish analogue terrestrial and

(1) FTA satellite (especially)
and/or
(2) Nothern Ireland analogue terrestrial (where receiveable) which is scheduled to be still around for 3 more years
and/or
(3) UK Freeview (where receiveable) on equipment not suitable for MPEG4

As I said already a sizeable number of the above might not bother doing anything and purely watch UK channels until they eventually have to buy a new TV! The loss of advertising income could be very significant.

The number of people in category 1 has surely increased a lot due to the recession and people giving up SKY subscriptions.

Sam Russell wrote: »

the boxes are not dear - they can be bought in Asia for less than $20 in relatively small numbers. A bulk order, and we would be sorted.

Have you a web link to a supply of MPEG4 boxes for only $20 ?
Viewers also want a STB which will last a reasonable length of time. Can they really do that on something for just $20 ?

Sam Russell wrote: »

The people currently watching RTE terrestial have a UHF aerial, at least for TV3 or TG4, even if they receive RTE1 on VHF. They would simply put a STB inline with the aerial and plug in the SCART. Any other services are not affected. The telly will still get everything else, as now.

If a basic STB was offered at €30 or so, I think it is a simple purchase and installation. The only problem would come from very old tellies that do not have SCART, but tellies are available for about €200, and should be MPG4 by the time they get round to doing the switch off.

Anyone else is not watching RTE from an aerial. If they are getting Freesat, they need an aerial now to get RTE. If the turnoff was in 3 months, then most would go out and get the STB, assuming it was available. We only took 2 months to stop using the Irish Pound, instead of the much longer time scale suggested. We changed to Km/h overnight. If you have to change, you do. If it is cheap and better, then there should be no complaints.

The longer the switchover, the more costs are involved. Why broadcast analogue for longer than necessary? If extra channels were offered (for free), there would be a rush. RTE HD would be a great attraction to go digital.

Obviously, only the main transmitters currently running DTT would be switched off first.

I agree with what you say Sam, the key is what additional free services are provided with the four basic channels. Also a soft-encrypted group of channels, such as the UK four - BBC & UTV, news etc would see pay-tv ready CAMs or STBs and cards in viewers homes and ready to subscribe easily at some point in the future.

An ASO working group has been established by the Department, RTÉ, BCI and ComReg — to develop a plan for analogue switch-off in 2012. The relays may be switched off in conjunction with their main transmitters as is the case in the UK.
The following is from an EBU seminar last Dec - The digital Switchover – challenges and lessons learned

Key factors for success: quality of the digital offer

The service offer should be attractive

• At least 20-25 programmes including simulcast of analogue (continuity of services is essential) plus new digital services
• Free-to-air services be the core of the offer but pay-tv services to be included also: they create new business in the terrestrial distribution platform

The service offer should be technically of high quality

• The DTT parameters (modulation scheme, FEC rate, guard interval, etc.) should be adapted to the reception conditions
• The data capacity per programme in the mux should be large enough to ensure better image quality than analogue
• The coverage should at least match the analogue one – gap fillers if needed
• Good digital receivers that fulfill reception specifications
• Avoid many changes (in frequencies, in parameters, etc.)
• Minimise simulcast (expensive and frequency demanding)

Viewers should not be disappointed

Key factors for success: viewers must be prepared

• Communication is key: viewers must understand what will happen, when and how to prepare
• Financial support may be necessary: subsidizing digital receivers/antennae modifications
• Mandating digital tuners: policy tool used in France and USA. Planned in Italy.

the downside of the switchover

Consumer related challenges – Digital refusniks

• Viewers have to buy new receivers, to adapt receive antennas
• Difficulties for elder and less wealthy population to accept new technology

Looks like 1st quarter of 2010 before we have definitive news ie March 2010 as I suspected.

see: http://www.tvaccess.ie/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=88:dttprogress&catid=45:digital-terrestrial-television-articles&Itemid=65

I reckon there is bargaining negotiations going on now that will continue over January and then the crunch will come in mid February with the BAI setting a deadline of March 2010 in mid February for either signing or withdrawal of license. At least if One Vision withdraw RTÉ NL should be in a position to hear quickly from Liberty given they'll want to get moving themselves on the project.

So I doubt we'll hear anything til February and things will just be progress reports sometime mid January.

mrdtv wrote: »

Clutching at straws? I predict nothing will happen for at least a year. The economy in Ireland is sliding back to the 1950's. Who is going to bother to take the risk in these uncertain times?

You mean in terms of launch? Hmm, if One Vision pull out, then Liberty & RTÉ will probably need 3 months to consider their position, probably accepting license offer anyhow. In June then given RTÉ NL's involvement Liberty would presumably be in a position to sign with it. If UPC indicated to RTÉ NL that they weren't interested in the project, then I could see Sky being interested as a way of getting itself into homes that won't or can't put up a dish. So if all that happens you're talking July before someone signs and then the winter to negotiate on boxes and channels. That means launch sometime in 2011. I would see Paddy's Day as a possibility. I think if Sky and UPC aren't interested and One Vision pull out, then RTÉ will probably have to go it alone with a subscription business themselves launching in 2011. So you could be right.

I think though that Eircom will probably sign with One Vision and Eircom's new owner is almost in place and that that should add momentum to stump up the security bond.

I think One Vision are just bargaining hard and holding back for the best deal. I'm sure RTÉ NL have spoken with Liberty as to their interests in the project if One Vision won't run with the security bond. I would see it as Sky next if Liberty weren't interested.

I think that pay DTT will go ahead, now whether it is viable is another question but its an imperative for the platform to make back its investment for RTÉ, so that RTÉ may offer it themselves if they have to, to make money on it.

Sam Russell wrote: »

RTE need it to justify themselves.

Why would this justify RTÉ? They remain with the same channels perhaps a plus 1 service etc

The Cush wrote: »

Any info on the Dec 14th meeting?

Searched online for it and didn't see it yet. I'd say we'll see about it either tomorrow or Monday.