How to become a train driver in Ireland

lynchiered · 29-12-2008 4:20pm #1

Hi,
I've had the sudden urge to become a train driver. .I've no idea how expensive it is or wat route to take can someone help?

Sorry if they're basic questions, but I did have a look on some sites and couldnt find the answers...

Regards

Paul

KTRIC · 29-12-2008 4:22pm

Go down to the motortax office and fill out the application for your leaners permit.

Ham'nd'egger · 29-12-2008 4:39pm

lynchiered wrote: »

Hi,
I've had the sudden urge to become a train driver. .I've no idea how expensive it is or wat route to take can someone help?

Sorry if they're basic questions, but I did have a look on some sites and couldnt find the answers...

Regards

Paul

Join Irish Rail or NIR and serve your time and maybe just maybe.....

godtabh · 29-12-2008 5:07pm

Hamndegger wrote: »

Join Irish Rail or NIR and serve your time and maybe just maybe.....

And you might get it before retirment. Its very hard to get into as far as I know

Nostradamus · 29-12-2008 6:15pm

lynchiered wrote: »

Hi,
I've had the sudden urge to become a train driver. .I've no idea how expensive it is or wat route to take can someone help?

Sorry if they're basic questions, but I did have a look on some sites and couldnt find the answers...

Regards

Paul

Unfortunately Irish Rail/CIE unions have taken nepotism to astronomical degreees. Technically it is possible to join and become a train driver, but that's like saying anyone can become President of the USA. It's all about family, connections and bloodlines.

Until 10 years ago just about every train driver in Ireland was from a cluster of families based in Dublin, Cork, Limerick, Claremorris, Waterford and Athlone. This is how the ILDA strike was so devastating to railfreight - the "brothers" and I mean this literally in many cases were looking out for one another. They will claim to be socialists till they are blue in the face but in reality you are dealing with the same bloodline dynamics one comes across in royal families and big business. It's just as self serving too.

Barring a family secret hidden in your DNA, ff you want to drive a train in Ireland this is your best hope:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000B6FIAK/shopping-vg-21/ref=nosim

Sorry for being so negative but this is fact of the matter. Being a train driver in Ireland is some form of bloodrite handed from fathers to sons. They will claim it isn't and will cite recent DART and Arrow drivers who are not from train driving families but this is misleading as many of them were long term CIE employees anyways and many of them got their jobs via their family.

Our man in Havana · 29-12-2008 6:39pm

You are better off going across the water and getting a job with some of the Train operating companies in the UK or on the London Underground. At least there you will get in on merit and not on who your father is.

KC61 · 29-12-2008 6:43pm

You need to be a serving member of staff in Iarnród Éireann before you can apply to become a train driver. It really does not matter what role you are in beforehand, but unfortunately that's the way it is.

As it is with the current cutbacks I can't see too many vacancies arising in the near future in the organisation.

Judgement Day · 29-12-2008 6:58pm

Join the Cavan & Leitrim Railway at Dromod - they will let anyone drive their trains - that's if any of them are still operational!:D:D

invincibleirish · 29-12-2008 7:12pm

Is IR really that nepotistic or are you guys blowing it out of proportion?

corktina · 29-12-2008 7:32pm

it was always so I believe. You could not get a job as an engine cleaner with the GWR in England (for instance) unless you could show management SOME family link...

Ham'nd'egger · 29-12-2008 8:08pm

corktina wrote: »

it was always so I believe. You could not get a job as an engine cleaner with the GWR in England (for instance) unless you could show management SOME family link...

It was but in all honesty what industry wasn't likewise throughout the years? Every trade had a certain about of nepotism in it's midst over the years so it follow that the railways was no exception.

corktina · 29-12-2008 8:11pm

absolutely...son used to follow father..quite a commonsense arrangenment

Ham'nd'egger · 29-12-2008 8:22pm

corktina wrote: »

absolutely...son used to follow father..quite a commonsense arrangenment

Another thought that springs to mind is that the broadcast media was non existent in older days so people didn't have recruitment agencies, Fridays ads in the Times or loadajob.ie to look up for work. Generally, blue collar vacancies would be filled on nod and wink or word of mouth basis so as such jobs would tend to stay in family lines.

Apprentices in all manner of trades would also have assurance fees paid to secure their places in many trade jobs to tie the guys down until they were trained up. As young 14 year olds leaving school wouldn't have such money, it usually meant that family members would be called on to foot the bills; I know that it did happen in CIE even up until the mid 1950's.

29-12-2008 11:05pm

I'm in the same boat as you. I've been trying to do it for over two years with no success - I'm not from a family with a railway background. IÉ only recruit drivers internally so you need to get in there doing something else first. They've also had a recruitment ban for the last few years so I don't think they'll be opening up any time soon. Might need to go abroad to fulfill my dream.

Victor · 30-12-2008 12:19am

I can understand someone deciding "I want to become a doctor to heal people" or "I want to become a block layer so people can have somewhere to live". I don't quite have the same understanding of someone wanting to become a train driver.*

Ford in Cork had a policy that they would employ one child of an existing employee, but only one. When they eventually closed, I imagine it saved a few families from complete devastation.

* Sure, you can say "I want to become a train driver to get people to work" but it doesn't ahve the same ring to it.

HydeRoad · 30-12-2008 4:30am

I suppose you could apply to be a tram driver on the LUAS, not the same thing, I know, but all I heard from people working in there are that the conditions are terrible, rotten shift patterns, drivers working over tired, and what appears to be a policy on principle to treat staff badly.

It's like two opposite ends of the worst extremes, the worst elements of a heavily unionised workforce in IR, and the worst elements of greedy privatisation on the LUAS. There seems to be no employment in transport that falls somewhere between these two extremes.

lynchiered · 30-12-2008 8:53am

Karsini wrote: »

I'm in the same boat as you. I've been trying to do it for over two years with no success - I'm not from a family with a railway background. IÉ only recruit drivers internally so you need to get in there doing something else first. They've also had a recruitment ban for the last few years so I don't think they'll be opening up any time soon. Might need to go abroad to fulfill my dream.

thanks for the reply Karsini, are you currently employed by Irish Rail?

Terrontress · 30-12-2008 1:03pm

Karsini wrote: »

I'm in the same boat as you. I've been trying to do it for over two years with no success - I'm not from a family with a railway background. IÉ only recruit drivers internally so you need to get in there doing something else first. They've also had a recruitment ban for the last few years so I don't think they'll be opening up any time soon. Might need to go abroad to fulfill my dream.

Going abroad, you'd have access to railways with thousands more kilometres of route network and most likely faster, better trains. If it is a dream of yours, you'd be better to head away.

Nostradamus · 30-12-2008 2:10pm

I have a friend in Germany who like yourself wanted to learn how to drive trains and now drives S-Bahns in and around Stuttgart. From what he told me overthere you simply apply for a course and if you pass you will be hired. He was a carpenter before he was a train driver. So it is possible to just become a train driver in other countries without having the pure CIE blood flowing through your veins. You could email DB and ask.

CIE rail unions are only interested in genetic purity and consanguinity. That's not hyperbole or trolling - that is an absolute fact and they make no bones about it.

godtabh · 30-12-2008 3:45pm

Victor wrote: »

I don't quite have the same understanding of someone wanting to become a train driver.*

Some people just want to do a job they like or are interested in. Every one has there own reasons

30-12-2008 4:08pm

HydeRoad wrote: »

I suppose you could apply to be a tram driver on the LUAS, not the same thing, I know, but all I heard from people working in there are that the conditions are terrible, rotten shift patterns, drivers working over tired, and what appears to be a policy on principle to treat staff badly.

It's like two opposite ends of the worst extremes, the worst elements of a heavily unionised workforce in IR, and the worst elements of greedy privatisation on the LUAS. There seems to be no employment in transport that falls somewhere between these two extremes.

Yes I heard the same. You also need a driving licence because you're in contact with public roads.

lynchiered wrote: »

thanks for the reply Karsini, are you currently employed by Irish Rail?

No I'm not, that's the problem. If I were in there already I would have been able to apply for a driver position. I know two people in IE though, one a driver and the other a lineside electrician.

I've been thinking about it for about 12 years but really only seriously looked into it about three years ago.

Our man in Havana · 30-12-2008 4:34pm

You are best looking in the UK tbh. Loads of TOC's to choose from.

road_high · 30-12-2008 7:53pm

How typically Irish. Reserve the "cushy numbers" for your "own". Regardless of ability or competence. Happens a lot in private companies here I might add.

parsi · 30-12-2008 8:40pm

mfitzy wrote: »

How typically Irish. Reserve the "cushy numbers" for your "own". Regardless of ability or competence. Happens a lot in private companies here I might add.

Historically these were far from being cushy jobs unless you consider starting at 14 in a job where you cleaned steam engines and emptied their smokeboxes and ashpans to be cushy.

Maybe you consider shovelling a fortune of coal into a firebox on a rattling draughty engine and overnighting in a flea-ridden dormitory to be cushy ?

Like the mines the railways were full of family - times were tough and may as well hire on folk who already felt obliged to the job.

It's only now that they've got 201s with their warm draughtproof cabs, strongly regulated hours and decent pay that folk see the job as cushy.

road_high · 30-12-2008 9:34pm

parsi wrote: »

Historically these were far from being cushy jobs unless you consider starting at 14 in a job where you cleaned steam engines and emptied their smokeboxes and ashpans to be cushy.

Maybe you consider shovelling a fortune of coal into a firebox on a rattling draughty engine and overnighting in a flea-ridden dormitory to be cushy ?

Like the mines the railways were full of family - times were tough and may as well hire on folk who already felt obliged to the job.

It's only now that they've got 201s with their warm draughtproof cabs, strongly regulated hours and decent pay that folk see the job as cushy.

No but we are reffering here to 2008 and the OP was wondering how he might get into CIE as a driver today, not back in the Victoraian era.

murphaph · 30-12-2008 9:53pm

parsi wrote: »

Historically these were far from being cushy jobs unless you consider starting at 14 in a job where you cleaned steam engines and emptied their smokeboxes and ashpans to be cushy.

Maybe you consider shovelling a fortune of coal into a firebox on a rattling draughty engine and overnighting in a flea-ridden dormitory to be cushy ?

Like the mines the railways were full of family - times were tough and may as well hire on folk who already felt obliged to the job.

It's only now that they've got 201s with their warm draughtproof cabs, strongly regulated hours and decent pay that folk see the job as cushy.

Even in the days of steam, being a train driver was considered a good job. It's all relative-everyone had 'tough' jobs back then and most house were also flea-ridden with communal or outside toilets etc.

corktina · 30-12-2008 10:03pm

it most certainly wasnt cushy back then and is in nowhere near a cinch now. Theres a great deal of responsibility and ever-tightening schedules to maintain, plus the possibility of a suicide or other unpleasant occurence not to mention the extremely unsocial hours and shift work.

alpha2zulu · 30-12-2008 10:38pm

Theres a great deal of responsibility and ever-tightening schedules to maintain, plus the possibility of a suicide or other unpleasant occurence not to mention the extremely unsocial hours and shift work.

Completely agree with you regarding the responsibility of the job, a full intercity could potentially be carrying more people than a full 747 .However on intercity journeys at least theres a great chunk of slack built into timetables so that IE are more likely to hit their passenger charter punctuality figures. Most intercity journeys are now slower than they were 15 years ago.

Vic_08 · 31-12-2008 2:19am

murphaph wrote: »

Even in the days of steam, being a train driver was considered a good job. It's all relative-everyone had 'tough' jobs back then and most house were also flea-ridden with communal or outside toilets etc.

Considering that it would take 15-20 years of extremely tough work as an engine cleaner and fireman to rise through the ranks to become a driver it was not in any way a cushy number. It was often the case that firemen were only promoted to drivers when they were physically unable to put in a day at the firebox.

corktina · 31-12-2008 8:44am

alpha2zulu wrote: »

Completely agree with you regarding the responsibility of the job, a full intercity could potentially be carrying more people than a full 747 .However on intercity journeys at least theres a great chunk of slack built into timetables so that IE are more likely to hit their passenger charter punctuality figures. Most intercity journeys are now slower than they were 15 years ago.

isnt that slack in the schedule in connection with the work on widening the line in Kildare? I think a speed up is promised when this is finished.

parsi · 31-12-2008 9:41am

murphaph wrote: »

Even in the days of steam, being a train driver was considered a good job. It's all relative-everyone had 'tough' jobs back then and most house were also flea-ridden with communal or outside toilets etc.

Yes. Being a driver would be considered to be a fairly ok job. However the 20-odd years of back-breaking toil that came beforebecome a driver wasn't a good job.

The cushy jobs were in the clerical side of the house.

lynchiered · 03-01-2009 10:04pm

Thanks for the posts guys, I have come to the conclusion that i've very little chance of becoming a train driver.
I think the system in place in C.I.E at the moment is ridiculous considering the amount of tax payers money thats pumped in the company.

parsi · 04-01-2009 1:26am

lynchiered wrote: »

Thanks for the posts guys, I have come to the conclusion that i've very little chance of becoming a train driver.
I think the system in place in C.I.E at the moment is ridiculous considering the amount of tax payers money thats pumped in the company.

I think the subsidy is not really related to the method of recuiting the small number of drivers required each year.

Technically it's a fairlyclosedjob but I don't see that taxpayers money would be better spent in having the Public Appointments Commssion running a cmpetition for train drivers...

antoinolachtnai · 04-01-2009 8:11pm

Nepotism in the public sector is wrong.

Nepotism is widely considered to be an improper business practice. As such, it is forbidden by the CIE code of ethics.

It is impractical to comply with the equality legislation whilst operating a policy of nepotism.

Nepotism disadvantages the company because it results in the company having a smaller group of candidates from which to choose employees for a critical safety role.

Jobs should be awarded on merit.

If you have been discriminated against in this way, you should certainly take it up with your TD and your union.

HydeRoad · 04-01-2009 9:11pm

Nepotism is an old fashioned policy, with it's origins as described earlier in much simpler times, when life was much different, and different operating circumstances applied.

The world has moved on, and we are towards the end of a great transition period, when a lot of things that were once taken for granted, have been turned on their heads.

A small few cloistered institutions remain, that naturally enough will kick and scream a bit as their old fashioned methods are drawn into the 21st century.

Change is inevitable.

DWCommuter · 05-01-2009 1:22am

Nepotism on Irish Railways started long before CIE. They simply inherited the tradition and refused/failed to abolish it. It is a union driven culture. Throughout railway history, the role and status of a driver has been elevated to a rediculous degree.

Theres a book available called "Dublin Voices". Its a series of interviews with old Dubliners with old trades and traditions. One of them is a train driver from Inchicore. If you read it, you gain a first hand and in dept understanding of how ****ing bonkers the whole thing is, considering we have retained the same policy in the 21st century.

For generations Train drivers have thought they were special. Maybe in the 19th century when it was a completely new invention, but Mickey Flynn driving the DART is no different to Johnny O'Brien the electrician, Spud O'donnell driving the 122 to Drimnagh or Jamesy Toibin from Bluecabs. Astronauts are the 21st century equivilent to 19th century train drivers. They have a right to feel special. But somewhere along the way train drivers forgot that things moved on and they aren't in charge of an intergalactic cruiser on the way to Billy Butlins latest holiday camp on Saturn. Its a well established job/trade with blanket safety coverage and modern technology. The responsibility factor is exaggerated.

parsi · 05-01-2009 12:08pm

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

Nepotism in the public sector is wrong.
.

Nepotism in any sector is wrong.

crocro · 05-01-2009 12:27pm

Dart driver has to be one of the best jobs in Ireland. 50K basic 60K easy with overtime. Recession proof. Great pension. No effort. No skill. Just stop and go. Radio. Sandwiches. Coffee. Never leave Dublin.

Ticktactoe · 05-01-2009 1:01pm

alpha2zulu wrote: »

Completely agree with you regarding the responsibility of the job, a full intercity could potentially be carrying more people than a full 747 .

+1

Its not as easy or cushy as it may appear. Its mentaly draining and with night shifts is phyically draining. The responsibilty is unbelievable even so far to say that breaking a rule could lead to been imprisoned (That used to be the way not sure if it still exists today). I grew up in the household of a train driver and by no means could i say the job is easy. It is even difficult on the family especially dealing with the repercussions of death on the line. Every job is tough and so is this one.... its not as easy as just sitting and driving. Train drivers put in hard work like the rest of us in employment. :rolleyes:

05-01-2009 1:02pm

crocro wrote: »

Dart driver has to be one of the best jobs in Ireland. 50K basic 60K easy with overtime. Recession proof. Great pension. No effort. No skill. Just stop and go. Radio. Sandwiches. Coffee. Never leave Dublin.

But there is a (very real) risk of suffering a traumatic event such as witnessing a suicide so it has the potential to really screw you up, though that's true of any driver not just DART.

I'd be more interested in intercity driving myself but I wouldn't turn down a DART position if offered it.

Ham'nd'egger · 05-01-2009 1:46pm

Ticktactoe wrote: »

+1

Its not as easy or cushy as it may appear. Its mentaly draining and with night shifts is phyically draining. The responsibilty is unbelievable even so far to say that breaking a rule could lead to been imprisoned (That used to be the way not sure if it still exists today). I grew up in the household of a train driver and by no means could i say the job is easy. It is even difficult on the family especially dealing with the repercussions of death on the line. Every job is tough and so is this one.... its not as easy as just sitting and driving. Train drivers put in hard work like the rest of us in employment. :rolleyes:

I do know of a few train drivers who have been retired early due to stress levels threatening their health.

Ticktactoe · 05-01-2009 1:48pm

Hamndegger wrote: »

I do know of a few train drivers who have been retired early due to stress levels threatening their health.

Quite a number do as there is a manditory medical examination for drivers every year or so (not sure how often but it is within a couple of years anyway).

dowlingm · 05-01-2009 5:04pm

Let's not conflate two issues folks. Whether train driving should be a closed shop is a different issue from whether it's a cushy number. In fact, I agree it's not a cushy number and that's why we need the best available applicants, not just those who have served time being rude to customers in Maynooth ticket offices.

Nostradamus · 05-01-2009 5:14pm

It's a cushy number if you are operating the "commuter" train on the Nenagh line. It's more stressfull being a DART driver.

Either one should be not be a closed nepotistic job-for-life supported by taxpayers.

Ticktactoe · 05-01-2009 5:24pm

dowlingm wrote: »

Let's not conflate two issues folks. Whether train driving should be a closed shop is a different issue from whether it's a cushy number. In fact, I agree it's not a cushy number and that's why we need the best available applicants, not just those who have served time being rude to customers in Maynooth ticket offices.

I agree it is very hard to get into the train driving employment especially in previous years. To be allowed to sit the exam you had to serve on the railway for a number of years and as far as i know be nominated to go for the exam. In recent years it is open to anyone employed or not employed by the service.

Heisenberg1 · 06-01-2009 12:54am

Nostradamus wrote: »

Unfortunately Irish Rail/CIE unions have taken nepotism to astronomical degreees. Technically it is possible to join and become a train driver, but that's like saying anyone can become President of the USA. It's all about family, connections and bloodlines.

Until 10 years ago just about every train driver in Ireland was from a cluster of families based in Dublin, Cork, Limerick, Claremorris, Waterford and Athlone. This is how the ILDA strike was so devastating to railfreight - the "brothers" and I mean this literally in many cases were looking out for one another. They will claim to be socialists till they are blue in the face but in reality you are dealing with the same bloodline dynamics one comes across in royal families and big business. It's just as self serving too.

Barring a family secret hidden in your DNA, ff you want to drive a train in Ireland this is your best hope:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000B6FIAK/shopping-vg-21/ref=nosim

Sorry for being so negative but this is fact of the matter. Being a train driver in Ireland is some form of bloodrite handed from fathers to sons. They will claim it isn't and will cite recent DART and Arrow drivers who are not from train driving families but this is misleading as many of them were long term CIE employees anyways and many of them got their jobs via their family.

i will agree in the past it was very hard to get any job in I.E but that all changed about ten years ago.

Heisenberg1 · 06-01-2009 12:57am

lynchiered wrote: »

Hi,
I've had the sudden urge to become a train driver. .I've no idea how expensive it is or wat route to take can someone help?

Sorry if they're basic questions, but I did have a look on some sites and couldnt find the answers...

Regards

Paul

first of all you must be an employee with irish rail and then when a vacancy comes up you applie for it and thats it

06-01-2009 1:01am

luzon wrote: »

first of all you must be an employee with irish rail and then when a vacancy comes up you applie for it and thats it

That's pretty much what I heard. Just that with the current bloat in the public sector and the "credit crunch" they haven't been taking on many people from the outside for a long while.

Judgement Day · 06-01-2009 1:11am

There has been a lot of crap talked on this thread about nepotism and how cushy it is to be a train driver and how it is a closed shop to outsiders. I am amazed - and perhaps not - that no rail driver has responded to such drivel.

On one side of my family my great grandfather, grandfather and two of his brothers worked for a real Irish railway company - one which CIE never got their grubby paws on - it was a family tradition much as say working in Guinness's or, dare I say it, Waterford Glass! It had little to do with it being a closed shop to outsiders it was a way of life and it was quite natural for sons to follow fathers into the railway workforce. These days that tradition has largely died out as people want easier jobs with more pay and better hours and conditions. IE management are only too delighted to see the end of the tradition as, God forbid, we should have a railway operated by people with a long term commitment to the job. :mad:

Terrontress · 06-01-2009 9:28am

Judgement Day wrote: »

There has been a lot of crap talked on this thread about nepotism and how cushy it is to be a train driver and how it is a closed shop to outsiders. I am amazed - and perhaps not - that no rail driver has responded to such drivel.

On one side of my family my great grandfather, grandfather and two of his brothers worked for a real Irish railway company - one which CIE never got their grubby paws on - it was a family tradition much as say working in Guinness's or, dare I say it, Waterford Glass! It had little to do with it being a closed shop to outsiders it was a way of life and it was quite natural for sons to follow fathers into the railway workforce. These days that tradition has largely died out as people want easier jobs with more pay and better hours and conditions. IE management are only too delighted to see the end of the tradition as, God forbid, we should have a railway operated by people with a long term commitment to the job. :mad:

Bord na Mona?

Ticktactoe · 06-01-2009 9:52am

luzon wrote: »

first of all you must be an employee with irish rail and then when a vacancy comes up you applie for it and thats it

Does that still stand? I thought that changed a couple of years ago....

How to become a train driver in Ireland

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