Casino raided and shut down by Gardai

tipp86 · 17-05-2008 3:56am #1

Atlantis casino, clonmel was raided and shut down indefinetly tonight.

Got a call to tell me roulette wheel, safe and everyones chips were confiscated in a raid at approx 2.30am today by around 7 gardai.

valor · 17-05-2008 4:04am

why>

nicnicnic · 17-05-2008 4:05am

tipp86 wrote: »

Atlantis casino, clonmel was raided and shut down indefinetly tonight.

Got a call to tell me roulette wheel, safe and everyones chips were confiscated in a raid at approx 2.30am today by around 7 gardai.

Surely this is big news for republic casinos and card clubs?

SWEET I SMELL GARDA CORRUPTION/BRIBES THIS BABY COULD HAVE LEGS

tipp86 · 17-05-2008 4:10am

valor wrote: »

why>

Who knows? But what exactly is the legal situation with casinos/card clubs.

I cant imagine the gardai looked kindly on the free drink situation which exisisted at the casino.But i guess there has to be more than that to it.There should be someone posting soon enough that was there.

nicnicnic · 17-05-2008 4:22am

no way this has national imprecations ie a national policy decision; this is local politics probably local supers son did the family diddley club on roulette or something

tipp86 · 17-05-2008 4:24am

nicnicnic wrote: »

no way this has national imprecations ie a national policy decision; this is local politics probably local supers son did the family diddley club on roulette or something

Nah he just lost it to me at the poker table:D:D

yeah-buddy · 17-05-2008 4:24am

nicccccccccccccccce

the whole year inn · 17-05-2008 4:25am

all on green!what really happened?

tipp86 · 17-05-2008 4:28am

gob_smacked wrote: »

all on green!what really happened?

basically what i wrote in the op, not sure of details but basically they took all chips cash etc.... that was on the premises.they took everyones name and address.I sure wouldnt be happy if i was sitting down playing poker and my chip were confiscated.

THEIRISHMOB · 17-05-2008 4:32am

send them down to blazin aces................ could do with a few garda to sort the place out.
Maybe arrest the customers for hanging up there phone..........!!!
absolute **** hole

Matt Santos · 17-05-2008 4:32am

tipp86 wrote: »

Who knows? But what exactly is the legal situation with casinos/card clubs.

I cant imagine the gardai looked kindly on the free drink situation which exisisted at the casino.But i guess there has to be more than that to it.There should be someone posting soon enough that was there.

Can confirm that this was the case.
Roulette wheel, all the chips, all the cards, all the money and all the names of the patrons for want of a better term "found on".
I had the bones of €300 in front of me at the roulette table when it went down.
The Gardai stormed in and took up a position at each of the manned tables. "Nobody touch any of the chips or tables or you will be charged with obstruction". With that everyone in the place hands there hands up in the air like a "stick up!"
The Gardai took a great deal of time to explain to all the Club Members that they were not breaking any laws but that they would need everybodys name and address as they were of the opinion that the operators of the club were.
A tally of my chips were taken and I signed for it in the Garda note book. He explained to me that I would have to contact him in Clonmel Garda Station later on in the week and I would be issued with a receipt for my chip count.
I left pretty soon after that as I was told that I had no further reason to stay. A pretty big crowd were already gathering on the street and all sorts of stories were being bandied about including drugs, money laundering and the sort but from my own point of view this was not the case. It was a casino issue.
The roulette wheel was removed from the premises and cases of casino marked chips were also taken away.
I think this could be the start of the expected clampdown.....

mdwexford · 17-05-2008 4:59am

wow sounds exciting

+1 for internet pokers>>>>>>live pokers

HoLLLLLaments · 17-05-2008 8:26am

Matt Santos wrote: »

A pretty big crowd were already gathering on the street and all sorts of stories were being bandied about including drugs, money laundering and the sort

I love being in this crowd.

hotspur · 17-05-2008 9:17am

Matt Santos wrote: »

I think this could be the start of the expected clampdown.....

What expected clampdown? And if there were one I hardly think it would first hit the high profile casinos of Tipperary (and I had to google Clonmel to find out which Godforsaken bog it is in). Probably raided because of a poitin still or something. Or maybe Lucey is money laundering for Al-Qaeda. Someone find out.

eddiehead · 17-05-2008 9:44am

Matt Santos wrote: »

Can confirm that this was the case.
Roulette wheel, all the chips, all the cards, all the money and all the names of the patrons for want of a better term "found on".
I had the bones of €300 in front of me at the roulette table when it went down.
The Gardai stormed in and took up a position at each of the manned tables. "Nobody touch any of the chips or tables or you will be charged with obstruction". With that everyone in the place hands there hands up in the air like a "stick up!"
The Gardai took a great deal of time to explain to all the Club Members that they were not breaking any laws but that they would need everybodys name and address as they were of the opinion that the operators of the club were.
A tally of my chips were taken and I signed for it in the Garda note book. He explained to me that I would have to contact him in Clonmel Garda Station later on in the week and I would be issued with a receipt for my chip count.
I left pretty soon after that as I was told that I had no further reason to stay. A pretty big crowd were already gathering on the street and all sorts of stories were being bandied about including drugs, money laundering and the sort but from my own point of view this was not the case. It was a casino issue.
The roulette wheel was removed from the premises and cases of casino marked chips were also taken away.
I think this could be the start of the expected clampdown.....

Its all a bit Hollywood IMO, if the operators are dodgy then why not just get a hold of them on some weekday afternoon when theres no punters there? I dont really see the point "storming" in at there peak hours. Maybe they were watching Martin Scorsese's "Casino" beforehand and just decided this was the way to go, lol. I wonder if their Carlow club will be stormed any time soon

Rb · 17-05-2008 10:46am

So long as the customers get their money back, it's not a huge issue.

YULETIRED · 17-05-2008 11:05am

the whole sorry episode caught on camera fking cops

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGVwN8vlLrc&feature=related

chillimetro · 17-05-2008 11:37am

THEIRISHMOB wrote: »

send them down to blazin aces................ could do with a few garda to sort the place out.
Maybe arrest the customers for hanging up there phone..........!!!
absolute **** hole

IDIOT!!!!!!

ZZR1100 · 17-05-2008 12:14pm

nicnicnic wrote: »

no way this has national imprecations ie a national policy decision; this is local politics probably local supers son did the family diddley club on roulette or something

perhaps not national policy but if this goes to court and a decision is made against the operators, it will have implications for all the other clubs i would imagine

NickyOD · 17-05-2008 12:17pm

Matt Santos wrote: »

Can confirm that this was the case.
Roulette wheel, all the chips, all the cards, all the money and all the names of the patrons for want of a better term "found on".
I had the bones of €300 in front of me at the roulette table when it went down.
The Gardai stormed in and took up a position at each of the manned tables. "Nobody touch any of the chips or tables or you will be charged with obstruction". With that everyone in the place hands there hands up in the air like a "stick up!"
The Gardai took a great deal of time to explain to all the Club Members that they were not breaking any laws but that they would need everybodys name and address as they were of the opinion that the operators of the club were.
A tally of my chips were taken and I signed for it in the Garda note book. He explained to me that I would have to contact him in Clonmel Garda Station later on in the week and I would be issued with a receipt for my chip count.
I left pretty soon after that as I was told that I had no further reason to stay. A pretty big crowd were already gathering on the street and all sorts of stories were being bandied about including drugs, money laundering and the sort but from my own point of view this was not the case. It was a casino issue.
The roulette wheel was removed from the premises and cases of casino marked chips were also taken away.
I think this could be the start of the expected clampdown.....

Are you well connected enough to know that there was definitely nothing illegal or underhanded going on at the club? If there is a clampdown coming this is not how it would be handled.

Did the club have a gaming license?

Tight Ted · 17-05-2008 12:23pm

Don't see how this could have national implications, when you consider that there are bookies up and down every highstreet in Ireland. Don't know what the story with drinks being served afterhours though!

Anyway live poker is da suck.

Matt Santos · 17-05-2008 12:27pm

NickyOD wrote: »

Are you well connected enough to know that there was definitely nothing illegal or underhanded going on at the club? If there is a clampdown coming this is not how it would be handled.

Did the club have a gaming license?

Nicky, I was just a punter there and do not pretend to know anything more than I have said. It seems a little heavy handed the manner that it was executed but when you are closing a casino (and I think its a first in the Republic of Ireland!) how do you go about it?
This was no couple of Gardai in the station drinking coffee and eating Jaffa cakes that decided to close the casino. There were at least 7 Gardai and that included two plain clothes detectives, two uniform Sgts and a uniformed Superintendent.
As for the question of a gaming licence......... I really dont know but is this not the simple thing to have in this business?

latenia · 17-05-2008 1:20pm

Is there such a thing as a gaming license in Ireland?

The Al Lad · 17-05-2008 1:26pm

Just got off the phone to a garda mate of mine who told me the true story behind this, and said the gardai will be releasing this statement later on today

" Yesterday afternoon, members of An Garda Shicaloni were reading boards.ie when they came across a thread in which nicnicnic claimed to have WON a tournament in Clonmel, Gardai decided to close this casino with immediate effect for allowing such a bad player to win on their premises, all confiscated funds will now go towards the Garda christmas patry the Garda benevolant fund"

tipp86 · 17-05-2008 1:26pm

Interesting to see what the implications will be for the sister club in carlow

Mellor · 17-05-2008 2:49pm

latenia wrote: »

Is there such a thing as a gaming license in Ireland?

Yes, you need one for slot macines say

NickyOD · 17-05-2008 4:02pm

Matt Santos wrote: »

As for the question of a gaming licence......... I really dont know but is this not the simple thing to have in this business?

You would think that, but a lot of "private members clubs" just go ahead without it and seem to get away with it.

Sirtoyou · 17-05-2008 4:13pm

tipp86 wrote: »

Interesting to see what the implications will be for the sister club in carlow

Just lol at tipping off the sister garda station.

Heisenberg. · 17-05-2008 4:39pm

This post has been deleted.

mcaul · 17-05-2008 5:49pm

Don't have any info on Clonmel situation, but if any club operators are reading this you MUST have a record of all members including date of birth, address & a copy of positive ID. (passport or driving license) All guests of member must also produce ID and a record must be kept. All members must sign in on each day they entre the club and the signing in book must be kept for inspection.

If the above is not done, then you are not operating a private members club and are, in effect, operating a public casino which is illegal.

The private member club is still a grey area, but as long as the rules of operating a private members club are strictly adhered to, then the gardai would be loathe to take any action.

My pure guess on what happened in Clonmel is that the local super wasn't too happy with a casino in town (despite there being about 20 bookies!!), sent uncercover gardai into the club - they may not have been
asked for ID etc and this was eough for local super to bring in heavies for a wild west style stunt!

ElectraBlue · 17-05-2008 5:58pm

Doubt if anyone will get their money back... That receipt is just a slip of paper to state that your money is now 'evidence' - the 'evidence' can be returned to you at the end of the investigation in the form they were confiscated (chips) which will be worthless if the Casino doesn't re-open and/or other clubs refuse to accept them...

glenjamin · 17-05-2008 6:01pm

YULETIRED wrote: »

the whole sorry episode caught on camera fking cops

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGVwN8vlLrc&feature=related

LMAO!!!!

Matt Santos · 17-05-2008 6:25pm

ElectraBlue wrote: »

Doubt if anyone will get their money back... That receipt is just a slip of paper to state that your money is now 'evidence' - the 'evidence' can be returned to you at the end of the investigation in the form they were confiscated (chips) which will be worthless if the Casino doesn't re-open and/or other clubs refuse to accept them...

In fairness I was assured by the Garda that took my details that I would be reimbursed with cash at the appropriate time.
He could not say enough that the people found on were not commiting any crime and that it was his opinion that a judge would certainly rule that anyone who money had been seized on would be awarded it back.
I think that it is extremely relevant that all the cash that was on the premises was seized also. In my view that says that the State can now award money back from this source. I will not be discarding my receipt anyway.
I would have thought this would have had more interest than this to be honest. Surely there are casino houses out there now wondering what are the implecations for their operation now?

Chucky the tree · 17-05-2008 7:29pm

Matt Santos wrote: »

I would have thought this would have had more interest than this to be honest. Surely there are casino houses out there now wondering what are the implecations for their operation now?

If this was a serious crackdown in casino's by the Gardai/powers that be they wouldnt of just raided one place, we would of heard stories of other places being turned over.

And if there is 2 clubs in clonmel, both would of been done on the same night. This seems like it's specially against this clubs owners for whatever reason.

ElectraBlue · 17-05-2008 8:24pm

Matt Santos wrote: »

In fairness I was assured by the Garda that took my details that I would be reimbursed with cash at the appropriate time.
He could not say enough that the people found on were not commiting any crime and that it was his opinion that a judge would certainly rule that anyone who money had been seized on would be awarded it back.
I think that it is extremely relevant that all the cash that was on the premises was seized also. In my view that says that the State can now award money back from this source. I will not be discarding my receipt anyway.
I would have thought this would have had more interest than this to be honest. Surely there are casino houses out there now wondering what are the implecations for their operation now?

If you got that reassurance in writing - then fine, just prepared to really have to work at getting it back!

It's not illegal to have a private members club for profit (but illegal if you don't enforce the reserved use for members); its not illegal to serve alcohol for free in such a club (but it is illegal to sell alcohol without a licence); its not illegal to play poker or 'run a book' - but its illegal to defraud someone knowingly via gambling (i.e. fixing a race) or allow under 18's to gamble.

There's still loopholes that allows private member clubs to exist, none have been closed recently (I'm open to correction here...) to cause other casinos to worry. I'm betting this raid has nothing to do with Casinos in general but other suspect activities or individuals.

tipp86 · 17-05-2008 8:36pm

I basically think they were just sick of people wandering out of there drunk at all hours, free drink to the extent that was been given out up there just encoruaged every fool to go up for a look.

They managed to get away with it in carlow but there location in clonmel is basically opposite the gardai station.

There is two clubs in the town but the big slick ran club shuts down on a saturday night mainly to avoid any bother.

Im also pretty certain i never joined as a member and i most certainally never signed in on entrance to the premises.

I just wonder if this is brought through the judical system will the results of the case have a more widespread effect on the casino industry in ireland.The results of this case if it does go to court will set a legal precedent for these clubs.

RoundTower · 17-05-2008 9:03pm

Matt Santos wrote: »

Surely there are casino houses out there now wondering what are the implecations for their operation now?

perhaps there are, but they don't feel the need to speculate about the issue on boards?

Daithio · 18-05-2008 4:28am

I'd bet my life that it has something to do with the fact that it was probably taking customers from the local pubs.

blainj2 · 18-05-2008 12:03pm

Sounds like a couple of lads got some gardai uniforms and a bright idea and decided they wanted to make some money at a casino for a change!

Actually this idea isnt bad im of to look for some uniforms online now..

pgodkin · 19-05-2008 6:42am

The Al Lad wrote: »

Just got off the phone to a garda mate of mine who told me the true story behind this, and said the gardai will be releasing this statement later on today

" Yesterday afternoon, members of An Garda Shicaloni were reading boards.ie when they came across a thread in which nicnicnic claimed to have WON a tournament in Clonmel, Gardai decided to close this casino with immediate effect for allowing such a bad player to win on their premises, all confiscated funds will now go towards the Garda christmas patry the Garda benevolant fund"

lol

[QUOTE/]"Don't have any info on Clonmel situation, but if any club operators are reading this you MUST have a record of all members including date of birth, address & a copy of positive ID. (passport or driving license) All guests of member must also produce ID and a record must be kept. All members must sign in on each day they entre the club and the signing in book must be kept for inspection.

If the above is not done, then you are not operating a private members club and are, in effect, operating a public casino which is illegal."[/QUOTE]

will have to do some doctoring on the sign in books at my local club!! u are suspose to sign in i try not to!!

DeadParrot · 19-05-2008 11:40am

mcaul wrote: »

Don't have any info on Clonmel situation, but if any club operators are reading this you MUST have a record of all members including date of birth, address & a copy of positive ID. (passport or driving license) All guests of member must also produce ID and a record must be kept. All members must sign in on each day they entre the club and the signing in book must be kept for inspection.

If the above is not done, then you are not operating a private members club and are, in effect, operating a public casino which is illegal.

I know at least 2 places in Dublin where that is not asked or required

RedJoker · 19-05-2008 12:11pm

AFAIK, there's a maximum number of gambling licenses per area. Those that own that license can open a casino without registering members or getting their details. They must keep a sign-in log though.

Casinos that don't have that license set up as "private member clubs" and must have all their member's details.

ghostface ste · 19-05-2008 4:01pm

Article about this on page 3 of the times today which only states that the gardai suspected the casino was operating 'illegally'. It seems to suggest that the gardai are trying to crack down on private members clubs such as this one seems to have been

corkie123 · 19-05-2008 8:35pm

RedJoker wrote: »

AFAIK, there's a maximum number of gambling licenses per area. Those that own that license can open a casino without registering members or getting their details. They must keep a sign-in log though.

Casinos that don't have that license set up as "private member clubs" and must have all their member's details.

wat gaming license is that red as far as i know there is no license in irish law that allow casino yet . but they dont know yet wat there going to do about all the casino that opened up over the years .

we see i say soon wats going to happen . then probley back to the old day pub poker :eek::eek::eek::eek:

hotspur · 19-05-2008 8:50pm

RedJoker wrote: »

AFAIK, there's a maximum number of gambling licenses per area. Those that own that license can open a casino without registering members or getting their details. They must keep a sign-in log though.

This isn't true. There is no legal provision for casinos in Ireland, there are no licenses in existence for them.

RedJoker · 19-05-2008 10:23pm

corkie123 wrote: »

wat gaming license is that red as far as i know there is no license in irish law that allow casino yet . but they dont know yet wat there going to do about all the casino that opened up over the years .

we see i say soon wats going to happen . then probley back to the old day pub poker :eek::eek::eek::eek:

hotspur wrote: »

This isn't true. There is no legal provision for casinos in Ireland, there are no licenses in existence for them.

I worked in the Shangri La in Cork for the summer and this was what I was told. They don't have members and just have a sign-in book at the desk.

RoundTower · 19-05-2008 10:45pm

hotspur wrote: »

This isn't true. There is no legal provision for casinos in Ireland, there are no licenses in existence for them.

there is legal provision for gaming licenses though. What exactly do they allow?

tipp86 · 20-05-2008 1:52am

They certainly had a lax manner on the sign in part of things which could haunt them.

hotspur · 20-05-2008 2:11am

RoundTower wrote: »

there is legal provision for gaming licenses though. What exactly do they allow?

Well obviously there are bookmaker's licenses, but these are covered under the 1931 Betting Act and not considered gaming in the sense we are talking about. Our gaming legislation pretty much covers old fashioned circus and carnival gaming, amusement hall and funfair gaming (pretty much slots), and lotteries (including bingo). These are the things you can get a gaming license for.

Shangri La lied to you Redjoker.

RoundTower · 20-05-2008 3:01am

hotspur wrote: »

Well obviously there are bookmaker's licenses, but these are covered under the 1931 Betting Act and not considered gaming in the sense we are talking about. Our gaming legislation pretty much covers old fashioned circus and carnival gaming, amusement hall and funfair gaming (pretty much slots), and lotteries (including bingo). These are the things you can get a gaming license for.

Shangri La lied to you Redjoker.

I took a look through the Gaming and Lotteries Act (before I saw you'd written this), I was thinking of the amusement hall gaming where you can win no more than 10 shillings. Interestingly "amusement hall" is never defined, it is just somwhere where there are "forms of entertainment other than gaming".

hotspur · 20-05-2008 3:29am

Flipper is looking to set up a place with slot machines down in Cork I believe. At least there it would be legal, unlike Dr Quirkeys et al. in Dublin.

Casino raided and shut down by Gardai

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