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Speedpost EMS no longer shipping to Ireland (as of april)

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    #212
    Fallschirmjager
    Registered Users Posts: 3,341 ✭✭✭Fallschirmjager


    i will check now to see is there any laws pertaining to EMS routing. I seem to recall from my distant past that there is.


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    #213
    Lemming
    Registered Users Posts: 14,148 ✭✭✭✭Lemming


    Fallschirmjager wrote: »
    Okay, got some bad news....

    i got this from a very helful lady in the External Affairs Division in Hong Kong..

    read it and weep (but it is as suspected)

    editted..

    Since there is no direct flight between Hong Kong and the Republic of Ireland, EMS items destined for the Republic Ireland need to be sent in transit via London Heathrow. According to the advice of the Airport Police and the British Airport Authority, it is an offence to import realistic (imitation) firearms into the United Kingdom under the Violent Crime Reduction Act 2006. Therefore, it is against the law for the realistic firearms, such as airsoft, to be transited via London Heathrow. We understand it may not be prohibited to import realistic firearms to the Republic of Ireland. However, we regret that due to the prohibition of the transit point, we cannot accept realistic firearms in the post to the Republic of Ireland .

    finish

    so it is the VCRA...

    You don't mind if I post this up on the arnies thread falls?


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    #214
    doubletap
    Registered Users Posts: 243 ✭✭doubletap


    Fallschirmjager wrote: »
    Okay, got some bad news....

    i got this from a very helful lady in the External Affairs Division in Hong Kong..

    read it and weep (but it is as suspected)

    editted..

    Since there is no direct flight between Hong Kong and the Republic of Ireland, EMS items destined for the Republic Ireland need to be sent in transit via London Heathrow. According to the advice of the Airport Police and the British Airport Authority, it is an offence to import realistic (imitation) firearms into the United Kingdom under the Violent Crime Reduction Act 2006. Therefore, it is against the law for the realistic firearms, such as airsoft, to be transited via London Heathrow. We understand it may not be prohibited to import realistic firearms to the Republic of Ireland. However, we regret that due to the prohibition of the transit point, we cannot accept realistic firearms in the post to the Republic of Ireland .

    finish

    so it is the VCRA...

    I thought that if its only passing through London Heathrow it dosn't pass through customs so therefor it has nothing to do with the import laws of the transiting country?


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    #215
    Lemming
    Registered Users Posts: 14,148 ✭✭✭✭Lemming


    doubletap wrote: »
    I thought that if its only passing through London Heathrow it dosn't pass through customs so therefor it has nothing to do with the import laws of the transiting country?

    I would have thought that too. For example, a person isn't technically "in" a country until they've passed through customs & imigration. Same I should imagine for cargo otherwise how would anything out of the ordinary get shipped around the world that wasn't a direct route?


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    #216
    doubletap
    Registered Users Posts: 243 ✭✭doubletap


    Lemming wrote: »
    I would have thought that too. For example, a person isn't technically "in" a country until they've passed through customs & imigration. Same I should imagine for cargo otherwise how would anything out of the ordinary get shipped around the world that wasn't a direct route?

    also importing airsoft AEG's into the UK isn't illeagle, you need to be a registered member of a club if i've read right?


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    #217
    Fallschirmjager
    Registered Users Posts: 3,341 ✭✭✭Fallschirmjager


    Lemming wrote: »
    You don't mind if I post this up on the arnies thread falls?

    fire ahead dude...no issues.


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    #218
    Fallschirmjager
    Registered Users Posts: 3,341 ✭✭✭Fallschirmjager


    okay, you need to cut me some slack here cos i am doing this when i should not be.

    http://www.upu.int/customs/en/country_list_en.pdf

    in that document

    93.02-93.06 Arms intended for sporting purposes. The sender must ensure that the addressee has obtained an import licence.

    now i am being very very one sided and selective here as i have no read it all yet but the reading of that issue pertaining to real steel implies to me that once its legal in the end country, it should be allowed to pass through. i will contact the dti in the UK sometime today and raise it with them.


    ps the UPU is the Postal Union (no not that type of union). its the international agreements for EMS and is a UN org (if i read it correctly). i cant find a contact for them but i suspect that the LHR police/customs have no legal basis for deciding that goods routed through a country where the goods are legal can arbitrarily decide that since it is now illegal in the UK, to ban them from transferring to the destination country. There are exceptions to this which have been specified but i dont see anything pertaining to airsoft or airsoft like items (e.g. imitation firearms). Now again, thats at first glance so i could easily be wrong.




    doubletap/Lemming...my thoughts exactly


    edit: i am wrong...they have a nifty para at the end saying they can ban anything...if its illegal in the uk, you cant transit. (see post further down for details)


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    #219
    zero19
    Registered Users Posts: 5,641 ✭✭✭zero19


    That's the very same reply i got this morning...


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    #220
    Stercus Accidit
    Registered Users Posts: 8,758 ✭✭✭Stercus Accidit


    Dear Mr *******,


    Since there is no direct flight between Hong Kong and the Republic of Ireland , EMS items destined for the Republic Ireland need to be sent in transit via London Heathrow. According to the advice pf the Airport Police and the British Airport Authority, it is an offence to import realistic (imitation) firearms into the United Kingdom under the Violent Crime Reduction Act 2006. Therefore, it is against the law for the realistic firearms, such as airsoft, to be transited via London Heathrow. We understand it may not be prohibited to import realistic firearms to the Republic of Ireland . However, we regret that due to the prohibition of the transit point, we cannot accept realistic firearms in the post to the Republic of Ireland .We apologize for any incontinence caused



    Yours sincerely,

    Vivien



    Vivien Mok

    Assistant Manager, International Parcels and Mail Circulation

    External Affairs Division

    Hongkong Post



    Yes same here, anyone may copy/paste it as far as I'm concerned.


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    #221
    Fallschirmjager
    Registered Users Posts: 3,341 ✭✭✭Fallschirmjager


    i just emailed the DTI in the UK...so keep your fingers crossed...


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    #222
    Fallschirmjager
    Registered Users Posts: 3,341 ✭✭✭Fallschirmjager


    Motosam wrote: »
    Dear Mr *******,


    We apologize for any incontinence caused





    Yes same here, anyone may copy/paste it as far as I'm concerned.



    INCONTINENCE>.....she knows us better then we know ourselves :D


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    #223
    Stercus Accidit
    Registered Users Posts: 8,758 ✭✭✭Stercus Accidit


    So what's the plan now, what is the next move.

    Should we contact British customs for a clarification that can be forwarded to ems?

    And anyone else, lets cover all the bases.


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    #224
    Shiva
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,401 ✭✭✭Shiva


    Puding wrote: »
    this i one of the reasons i like to shop with them always had that service just annoying there emails about not shipping airsoft devices to Ireland at all at the moment

    Did you hear any more about this order Puding ?

    I received a quote from WGC for a couple of pistols last night to ship via TNT and paid it this morning. I'll post here with any updates.


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    #225
    Shiva
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,401 ✭✭✭Shiva


    Ooopps...an update :)

    Just this second received an email to say an order I placed a couple of days ago with WGC for 2 pistols and an AEG has shipped via TNT.


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    #226
    TheDoc
    Registered Users Posts: 23,137 ✭✭✭✭TheDoc


    Well atleast its clearing up the jargon and we know the problems.

    And from my understanding, a country which is acting as a stop over to another country, cannot inflict its territorial legislation on that cargo/individual.

    A note to the british customs authority stating the situation and the financial and sporting loss implications on both sides is substantial.

    Are any retailers effected by this, they would have a much stronger stance then invdividuals.

    Nice to know my letter to the chinese embassador has gone unreplied....some use they are...


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    #227
    Stercus Accidit
    Registered Users Posts: 8,758 ✭✭✭Stercus Accidit


    [DM]-TheDOC- wrote: »

    Nice to know my letter to the chinese embassador has gone unreplied....some use they are...

    TBH I'd say they are pretty busy at the moment.

    Theres a sports competition or something on and some monks dont like it or so I gather, I'm sure its not a big thing but they have to show it some attention...


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    #228
    TheDoc
    Registered Users Posts: 23,137 ✭✭✭✭TheDoc


    just....lol


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    #229
    Fallschirmjager
    Registered Users Posts: 3,341 ✭✭✭Fallschirmjager


    just found this...for the UK

    Conditions of admission of articles imported or in transit
    Note:
    Regardless of statements contained in this list, or statements by any employee of Royal Mail Group, the burden rests
    with the customer (exporter) to ensure they comply with prescribed laws governing domestic and international mail,
    both those of the United Kingdom and the country of origin.


    thats from the EMS/UPU document detailing transportation

    http://www.upu.int/customs/en/country_list_en.pdf


    if i have read that right they basically are saying if its against the law in the Uk, they wont even let it transit...since the VCRA limits aeg's...they have by implication also excluded themselves from transitting them as well..

    i did raise a question with the DTI in the email about purchasing aeg's from the UK and how that has not been affected...


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    #230
    Stercus Accidit
    Registered Users Posts: 8,758 ✭✭✭Stercus Accidit


    Actually when you post on Arnies lemming, will you post a link here?

    Id be interested in seeing if they have anything to contribute.

    @Fallshirmjager, the Department of Trade and Industry, do they have power over customs or are they separate?


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    #231
    Fallschirmjager
    Registered Users Posts: 3,341 ✭✭✭Fallschirmjager


    Motosam wrote: »
    Actually when you post on Arnies lemming, will you post a link here?

    Id be interested in seeing if they have anything to contribute.

    @Fallshirmjager, the Department of Trade and Industry, do they have power over customs or are they separate?

    not sure M, they were mentioned as a email contact for questions...so i took the liberty of asking...

    lets hope i dont get the bounce around now. actually i will do a search for Uk customs as well and see what they think.


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    #232
    CrazyRabbit
    Registered Users Posts: 8,659 ✭✭✭CrazyRabbit


    So, another country (the UK), is blocking legitimate trade goods from being imported into Ireland, causing difficulties and financial loss (retailers) for Irish citizens.

    Sounds like something for our Minister for Foreign Affairs, Dermot Ahern TD!

    Could also potentially breach EU laws regarding free trade.


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    #233
    Puding
    Registered Users Posts: 6,261 ✭✭✭Puding


    but strange it is only effecting hong kong post, but as others have said they have to go thought uk where as people like fedex just fly straight from france/germany to ireland

    got this from dentrinity

    > Dear christopher morris,
    >
    > We regret we cannot ship Airosft guns to Ireland due to customs restriction. If you
    > possess a firearms license, please kindly fax your license details to +852 2388 5115 so
    > we can have your order processed. Otherwise the following conditions have to be agreed
    > before your order to be processed. We can only ship Airsoft accessories to your
    > location at present.
    >
    > Conditions on buyer without firearms license:
    > 1. 100% money back guarantee does not apply.
    > 2. Payment method will be only by bank to bank money transfer.
    > 3. We will not be responsible if your parcel is seized by customs.
    > Upon the above conditions are agreed. We will forward you a full quote with
    > shipping.
    >
    > Regards,
    >
    > DEN Trinity Shop
    > http://www.dentrinityshop.com
    >


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    #234
    Stercus Accidit
    Registered Users Posts: 8,758 ✭✭✭Stercus Accidit


    /\ now its just getting nonsensical (more so)

    Have you replied and informed them they have mistakenly used their arse to communicate with you rather than their brain?


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    #235
    Puding
    Registered Users Posts: 6,261 ✭✭✭Puding


    yes but at the moment logic and common sense does not seem to be coming into any of this


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    #236
    Stercus Accidit
    Registered Users Posts: 8,758 ✭✭✭Stercus Accidit


    Well at least there has been some clarification as to the cause of ems dropping out, we will have to contact UK customs as find out if they will refuse to be a stop over for good legal in their destination but restricted in their country.

    Also the Department of Trade and Industry.

    I suppose its good to be making some progress, if slowly.


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    #237
    LSnK
    Closed Accounts Posts: 43 ✭LSnK


    Does this affect things like magazines, or is it just the guns themselves? I'm looking to order some DE UMP and Well L96 magazines from overseas, since I can't get them here as far as I know.


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    #238
    IronWolf
    Registered Users Posts: 206 ✭✭IronWolf


    Just the guns themselves.


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    #239
    Fallschirmjager
    Registered Users Posts: 3,341 ✭✭✭Fallschirmjager


    okay, firstly thanks to crazy rabbit...i decided to go large and goto the internal markets group in the EU

    i have just emailed the EU Comission Citizens Advice for internal markets and they have guaranteed an answer in 8 days from the legal group.

    just so everyone is aware of the full implications here....

    this change in the status of postal items has the potential of limiting as Crazy rightly pointed out free trade in the EU. So for example if i buy an aeg off a polish website and it shipped to Ireland via the UK using EMS, i will have exactly the same issue.

    so by way of a horror example and to show the true implications..if the UK decides to do a VCRA version 2 and bans or limits mags, scopes, multicam...you would not be allowed to import those item either if the shipment is using EMS that are routed through the UK.

    so keep your fingers crossed...


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    #240
    IronWolf
    Registered Users Posts: 206 ✭✭IronWolf


    Nice job Fallschirmjager, hopefully the end is in sight.


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    #241
    CrazyRabbit
    Registered Users Posts: 8,659 ✭✭✭CrazyRabbit


    Fallschirmjager wrote: »
    okay, firstly thanks to crazy rabbit...i decided to go large and goto the internal markets group in the EU

    i have just emailed the EU Comission Citizens Advice for internal markets and they have guaranteed an answer in 8 days from the legal group.

    just so everyone is aware of the full implications here....

    this change in the status of postal items has the potential of limiting as Crazy rightly pointed out free trade in the EU. So for example if i buy an aeg off a polish website and it shipped to Ireland via the UK using EMS, i will have exactly the same issue.

    so by way of a horror example and to show the true implications..if the UK decides to do a VCRA version 2 and bans or limits mags, scopes, multicam...you would not be allowed to import those item either if the shipment is using EMS that are routed through the UK.

    so keep your fingers crossed...

    You mean that I was actually mildly useful?

    :eek: ...the shock of it all!


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