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Meeting with Engineers Ireland

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  • 17-02-2010 11:35am
    #1
    godtabh
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 23,208 Mod ✭✭✭✭


    I a have a meeting with John Power Director General of Engineers Ireland.

    The meeting is going to a general meeting on how I see Engineers Ireland role in society, its relationship with engineering firms & government, and how I see Engineers Ireland going forward. I will be looking at it at from a strategic level.

    If you were at such a meeting (and I maybe able to give a voice to some of your ideas/comments) what would you like to discuss with Engineers Ireland? What direction would you like to see them go? What concerns do you have with their current direction?


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    #2
    testicle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,430 ✭✭✭testicle


    Ask him why they started accepting Ordinary Degrees (formerly Diplomas) as acceptable qualifications for MIEI. Ask him does he believe this has devalued the title in anyway. Other Institutions, for example, the IET, require someone with an Ordinary Degree to have postgraduate experience before awarding them the title of MIET.

    Ask him are we ever going to see a copy of the Engineers Journal without an article on construction or Infrastructure in it? There is more to Engineering than Civil. When was the last time any of the following Disciplines were featured: Aeronautical, Agricultural, Biomedical, Chemical, Computer, Electrical, Electronic, Environmental etc etc. I'm sick of reading about the latest projects from PM Group, RPS etc


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    #3
    pljudge321
    Registered Users Posts: 1,129 ✭✭✭pljudge321


    Ask what he thinks of the new maths curriculum that is being implemented and if he feels that it adequately prepares students entering level 8 engineering courses.


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    #4
    godtabh
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 23,208 Mod ✭✭✭✭godtabh


    pljudge321 wrote: »
    Ask what he thinks of the new maths curriculum that is being implemented and if he feels that it adequately prepares students entering level 8 engineering courses.

    I think (from what I read) he feels more work is needed hence asking for engineers to retrain as maths teachers


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    #5
    T-Square
    Registered Users Posts: 759 ✭✭✭T-Square


    Ask him
    1. How many engineers are receiving benefits from the fund which members contribute to.
    2. How much they are receiving on average weekly.
    3. What percentage of members does that represent.
    4. How long does the helping money continue for.
    5. Ask him what he thinks the most important contribution Engineers Ireland made in 2009, don't accept waffle.


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    #6
    folan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,630 ✭✭✭folan


    Why was there no public face from Engineers Ireland when I believe it was the Tainiste claimed the engineers were not pulling their wieght, and then followed this by encouraging IEI members to vote for Lisbon.

    I would prefer no political commentary, or a balanced one.


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    #7
    godtabh
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 23,208 Mod ✭✭✭✭godtabh


    folan wrote: »
    Why was there no public face from Engineers Ireland when I believe it was the Tainiste claimed the engineers were not pulling their wieght, and then followed this by encouraging IEI members to vote for Lisbon.

    I would prefer no political commentary, or a balanced one.

    thats one of the questions i was going to ask.


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    #8
    dan_d
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,819 ✭✭✭dan_d


    testicle wrote: »
    Ask him why they started accepting Ordinary Degrees (formerly Diplomas) as acceptable qualifications for MIEI. Ask him does he believe this has devalued the title in anyway. Other Institutions, for example, the IET, require someone with an Ordinary Degree to have postgraduate experience before awarding them the title of MIET.

    On this subject, there is work going on in the EI on reserving certain functions to certain qualifications in engineering - ie, chartered etc (I've sent you a PM). Do ask him, however, are they going to do anything about the fact that the title "engineer" can be used by anyone, regardless of qualification, in this country.

    Folan I've also sent you a pm.....the response I received from John Power when I asked him that question a few months ago.

    Ask him why there are no engineers in Gov - we are problem solvers - we need to be where the problems are. And why we don't stand up for ourselves - we do ourselves no favours as a profession. Ask him why he's not commenting more on maths curriculums and insisting on a greater input in the maths of primary and secondary. If we're aiming for a Smart Economy, that's what you need engineers for.

    I've got to stop now, but my list is long!!!!


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    #9
    godtabh
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 23,208 Mod ✭✭✭✭godtabh


    dan_d wrote: »
    On this subject, there is work going on in the EI on reserving certain functions to certain qualifications in engineering - ie, chartered etc (I've sent you a PM). Do ask him, however, are they going to do anything about the fact that the title "engineer" can be used by anyone, regardless of qualification, in this country.

    Folan I've also sent you a pm.....the response I received from John Power when I asked him that question a few months ago.

    Ask him why there are no engineers in Gov - we are problem solvers - we need to be where the problems are. And why we don't stand up for ourselves - we do ourselves no favours as a profession. Ask him why he's not commenting more on maths curriculums and insisting on a greater input in the maths of primary and secondary. If we're aiming for a Smart Economy, that's what you need engineers for.

    I've got to stop now, but my list is long!!!!

    could you sned me that PM?


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    #10
    dan_d
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,819 ✭✭✭dan_d


    Give me a minute!!!!!


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    #11
    ManFromAtlantis
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,483 ✭✭✭ManFromAtlantis


    dan_d wrote: »
    Do ask him, however, are they going to do anything about the fact that the title "engineer" can be used by anyone, regardless of qualification, in this country.




    yea, the 'architects' have done something on their title.

    i dont know tho if he has the power to make it a protected title.


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    #12
    godtabh
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 23,208 Mod ✭✭✭✭godtabh


    dan_d wrote: »
    Give me a minute!!!!!

    Got that thanks.

    I emailed JP on the same issue and got no response. The issue I had with EI response was that it wasnt a public response. I understood the message but though tit could be louder


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    #13
    folan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,630 ✭✭✭folan


    Actually, I have another question

    How does the IEI hope to increasae the number of young women taking an interest in Engineering.

    My little sister is doing the Leaving Cert, and shes great with math, problem solving and so on, but i asked her if shed do engineering and she told me point blank no, she doesnt know what they do and its all men anyway.

    Also, dan_d, problem solving isnt all engineers do, we also create them. Im a test engineer!


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    #14
    godtabh
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 23,208 Mod ✭✭✭✭godtabh


    Most of what we learn in college is problem solving in one form or other.

    Alot of the girls I know who did engineering did it to get this skill set and move on.


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    #15
    folan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,630 ✭✭✭folan


    godtabh wrote: »
    Most of what we learn in college is problem solving in one form or other.

    This is one of the problems though, and we can see it mainly in the falling levels of quality, safety and reliability (see Toyota, Bridges + Adobe). Solving problems is well and good, but how do you identify possible problems before they occur.

    There was a good talk a while ago on this by IEI (JP himself I think)


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    #16
    testicle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,430 ✭✭✭testicle


    dan_d wrote: »
    On this subject, there is work going on in the EI on reserving certain functions to certain qualifications in engineering - ie, chartered etc (I've sent you a PM). Do ask him, however, are they going to do anything about the fact that the title "engineer" can be used by anyone, regardless of qualification, in this country.

    No PM received.


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    #17
    Red Alert
    Hosted Moderators Posts: 7,485 ✭✭✭Red Alert


    1) I'm definitely in favor of removing/not awarding the MIEI from people with Diplomas. Were they not previously allowed be Associate Members or something? No other professional body would allow the hard work of its professional members to be devalued in this way. Why did they make this change in the first place?

    2) Why did the MIEI not defend the public image of its members when Mary Coughlan claimed we were a high-cost profession. Engineers, compared to many other similarly qualified professions, give good value for money. The IEI should promote this viewpoint in the media.


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    #18
    Red Alert
    Hosted Moderators Posts: 7,485 ✭✭✭Red Alert


    3) They should introduce some form of professional recognition for people who are doing PhD's. Maybe establish a charter-track programme or similar to reward and foster the transferable skills that Engineers who choose to undertake a PhD have.


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    #19
    Red Alert
    Hosted Moderators Posts: 7,485 ✭✭✭Red Alert


    Can you send me the reply re: the ordinary degrees as well.

    Apologies for the triple post folks.


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    #20
    -Trek-
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,139 ✭✭✭-Trek-


    Red Alert wrote: »
    1) I'm definitely in favor of removing/not awarding the MIEI from people with Diplomas. Were they not previously allowed be Associate Members or something? No other professional body would allow the hard work of its professional members to be devalued in this way. Why did they make this change in the first place?

    To generate more revenue IMO


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    #21
    Fiskar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,599 ✭✭✭Fiskar


    I have a dilema at the moment, I have to renew my membership of the IEI and am asking myself why and what for?
    I never get communications from them, they run no exhibitions that I know of. They seem to be a very low profile organisation, The Heritage council sends out more monthly newsletters (by email) than Engineers Ireland!


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    #22
    Diabhal_Glas
    Registered Users Posts: 468 ✭✭Diabhal_Glas


    dan_d wrote: »
    Do ask him, however, are they going to do anything about the fact that the title "engineer" can be used by anyone, regardless of qualification, in this country.

    Its the same in the UK, the title should be protected somehow. Honestly when you tell people you are an Engineer in the UK half the time they think you are the guy that comes around to fix the gas boiler.

    Strangely enough the word is given serious respect in Europe and the States.


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    #23
    pljudge321
    Registered Users Posts: 1,129 ✭✭✭pljudge321


    Diabhal_Glas wrote: »
    Its the same in the UK, the title should be protected somehow. Honestly when you tell people you are an Engineer in the UK half the time they think you are the guy that comes around to fix the gas boiler.

    Strangely enough the word is given serious respect in Europe and the States.

    I believe in France Engineer is used as your title, much is the same was as doctor would be. Of course here engineers are the guys who come out to fix the washing machine.


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    #24
    godtabh
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 23,208 Mod ✭✭✭✭godtabh


    Fiskar wrote: »
    I have a dilema at the moment, I have to renew my membership of the IEI and am asking myself why and what for?
    I never get communications from them, they run no exhibitions that I know of. They seem to be a very low profile organisation, The Heritage council sends out more monthly newsletters (by email) than Engineers Ireland!

    I dont believe this to be true.

    I get the egineers journal every month. I get daily updates on course, events and general infomraiton on engineers ireland. Its not up to Enigneers Ireland to spoon feed you.


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    #25
    folan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,630 ✭✭✭folan


    once you have an online account, all these things gadtabh says are available to you.

    Its actually quite worth taking an hour one evening and having a good look around the site. Its very improved since I first joined. Only thing is I havent recieved the journel in a while now i think about it, although there was usually little that interested me in it.

    The strength of the engineering title is something I would like to see improved, as mentioned by a few.


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    #26
    godtabh
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 23,208 Mod ✭✭✭✭godtabh


    This months issue appears to cover jan/feb. I got mine a while ago


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    #27
    Pembily
    Registered Users Posts: 14,404 ✭✭✭✭Pembily


    godtabh wrote: »
    Most of what we learn in college is problem solving in one form or other.

    Alot of the girls I know who did engineering did it to get this skill set and move on.

    I am a girl, final year Mech Eng, only girl in a class of 30 and I want to be a Mech Eng... Don't wanna move on!!!

    Something should be done to attract girls though, many are scared, especially of Mech Eng as its about cars - I can drive my car, change the basics, charge battery etc but if it dies I am buggered!!! Engineering needs to be girlified :):D


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    #28
    Turbulent Bill
    Registered Users Posts: 1,622 ✭✭✭Turbulent Bill


    Red Alert wrote: »
    3) They should introduce some form of professional recognition for people who are doing PhD's. Maybe establish a charter-track programme or similar to reward and foster the transferable skills that Engineers who choose to undertake a PhD have.

    I raised this at a chartership open evening a good while back. The basic issue is that the chartership process doesn't explicited account for people who have done / are doing postgrads: it's based on the primary degree, CPD and work experience but little else. In reality most postgrads (and every PhD) already has hands-on experience of project management, development etc. as part of their studies.

    From memory I was told that the PhD would cover your CPD requirements and some of the work experience (if you can demonstrate it). Nothing formal though, seems to be treated case-by-case.


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    #29
    Ninja101
    Registered Users Posts: 42 ✭Ninja101


    godtabh wrote: »
    I dont believe this to be true.

    I get the egineers journal every month. I get daily updates on course, events and general infomraiton on engineers ireland. Its not up to Enigneers Ireland to spoon feed you.

    The Engineers journal is a joke. The courses are ridiculously overpriced and could be just as easily learned from a book. There is no justification for the exorbitant membership fee considering they don't even protect the title "Engineer". They do nothing but talk shop about how much they are "doing", which is what exactly? There are lots of vague generalities like "general information on engineers Ireland". WTF does that even mean?


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    #30
    godtabh
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 23,208 Mod ✭✭✭✭godtabh


    OK I'm just back from it now

    While some but not all of the items where discussed it was a decent meeting

    Some of the points of note

    Couglans rant

    At the time she was under a lot of pressure from different sections. EI response would be lost in the noise of everything else. It may also affect future relations with the goverment such Cowens apperance last year

    Level 7

    This is the first stage of an on going process. EI are looking at going down the French/German approach. It takes time but I am in agreement with this

    Chatership

    It is skewed towards civil/structural at present but through CPD Accreditation that more onus will be give to try and make it more popular to other engineers

    Engineers Journal

    There is a good mix of stuff in it. Read it!
    Fiskar wrote: »
    I have a dilema at the moment, I have to renew my membership of the IEI and am asking myself why and what for?
    I never get communications from them, they run no exhibitions that I know of. They seem to be a very low profile organisation, The Heritage council sends out more monthly newsletters (by email) than Engineers Ireland!

    Are you a memer with upto date infomraiton? At the very least you should be getting the Enigneers Journal if not there is something wrong.


    Ninja101 wrote: »
    The Engineers journal is a joke. The courses are ridiculously overpriced and could be just as easily learned from a book. There is no justification for the exorbitant membership fee considering they don't even protect the title "Engineer". They do nothing but talk shop about how much they are "doing", which is what exactly? There are lots of vague generalities like "general information on engineers Ireland". WTF does that even mean?


    Offering €175 off for members, 50% discount for unemployed people and 3 day weekers is a good starting point.

    In house courses are €1000 flat fee (plus expenses).

    Before ranting read up on it first


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    #31
    dan_d
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,819 ✭✭✭dan_d


    Diabhal_Glas wrote: »
    Its the same in the UK, the title should be protected somehow. Honestly when you tell people you are an Engineer in the UK half the time they think you are the guy that comes around to fix the gas boiler.

    Strangely enough the word is given serious respect in Europe and the States.

    Yeah, I know engineers from both Europe and the states, and I know the attitude towards the engineering profession there....that's why I ask the question. I'm trying to be a snob or anything, I just think that we've allowed our profession to become....de-valued, for want of a better word - and it's something we should try and do something about.


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