Garda Reserve Duties & Powers

donvito99 · 24-08-2008 9:30pm #1

Ive heard that Garda Reservists can only arrest under the Criminal Law Act 1997. Is that alot of arrestable offences?

And do Reservists carry batons/ASPs?

Eru · 24-08-2008 11:02pm

donvito99 wrote: »

Ive heard that Garda Reservists can only arrest under the Criminal Law Act 1997. Is that alot of arrestable offences?

And do Reservists carry batons/ASPs?

Anyone can arrest under the criminal law act 1997!

They have the same authority as any Garda in law but limits are applied by the main man. And yes, equipment uniform etc as all the same. Its not that easy to see a difference between a fulltimer and a reserve

ScubaDave · 26-08-2008 10:56pm

Are they gettin the ASP or are they still getting the wooden job?

Eru · 26-08-2008 11:22pm

ScubaDave wrote: »

Are they gettin the ASP or are they still getting the wooden job?

Are you joking? they had an ASP before I did!

ScubaDave · 28-08-2008 12:10am

Jaysus! That must mean that half of there phase 3 training is on the asp as its a 6-8 hr course!

FGR · 28-08-2008 3:54am

Karlitosway1978 wrote: »

Are you joking? they had an ASP before I did!

/shouts 'get back!' whilst swinging ASP at Karlitos

Got to love the enthusiasm from the instructors..

Eru · 28-08-2008 9:11am

ForegoneReality wrote: »

/shouts 'get back!' whilst swinging ASP at Karlitos

Got to love the enthusiasm from the instructors..

Karlitoway once again wonders why there is no strap when the damn thing flies out of his sweaty hand and nearly kills the redman

Fyr.Fytr · 28-08-2008 5:16pm

Thats something that has baffeled me too, can get them cheap on eBay though and the fatter end caps should lanyard fail

Eru · 28-08-2008 6:46pm

Fyr.Fytr wrote: »

Thats something that has baffeled me too, can get them cheap on eBay though and the fatter end caps should lanyard fail

Yeah but not officially allowed and your in trouble if your caught wth one and any injuries on duty while using it wont be covered.

opti76 · 28-08-2008 7:21pm

reserves in my station dont have asps.. theyve been trained but dont carry em

Eru · 28-08-2008 7:24pm

opti76 wrote: »

reserves in my station dont have asps.. theyve been trained but dont carry em

The SHO shouldnt be allowing them on outdoor duty then.

Fyr.Fytr · 28-08-2008 11:27pm

Karlitosway1978 wrote: »

Yeah but not officially allowed and your in trouble if your caught wth one and any injuries on duty while using it wont be covered.

Thats a bit silly, can understand if you bought maybe a different brand of baton but not an accessory for your current issue ones.

Does that mean your not insured wearing non garda issue boots (safety toe ones of course) or using a non issue cuff key??

metman · 28-08-2008 11:57pm

Our Asps have lanyards as standard, though I removed mine, as do most officers. Simply not practical in operational use.

Fyr.Fytr · 29-08-2008 12:03am

How do you get over it slipping out of your hand like karl stated metman? Do you guys have the tail caps on them?

metman · 29-08-2008 12:11am

What you're talking about are called Hindi caps. Some of the county forces use monadnock autolock batons, which carry the hindi cap as standard. The asps we're issued in the Met are the 'federal' model, and have a special grip, not the bog standard grip, that's designed as slip resistant. It works fine, as weapon retention has never been an issue to date. The model of baton comes with the lanyard for weapon retention should it be dropped, dislodged. But all it does is get in the way if you need to draw it in a hurry, hence why I got rid of it, as has everyone I work with.

We've a choice of baton here, either the 21 inch asp, or the 24 inch straight poly-carbon public order baton. Both weapons have their pros and cons. I've also trained on the PR-24 side handled baton, as well as the autolock. I liked the pr-24, but ultimately the asp is the best all round baton.

Fyr.Fytr · 29-08-2008 12:16am

Ah fair enough, tenner says the guards got the cheapest of the cheap and no thought or sense behind it other then penny pinching.

Yea hindi caps seem to work well (wern't they invented by a cop or am i confused???)

The caps on the garda ones seem to be the standard ones expect with the AGS logo on them, well the POU at the marlay park gigs had that on the ends of their asp's

Dubbhoy · 25-01-2010 6:13pm

Though I would set this thread up as I do not see it any where else. I was woundering what powers of arrest does a GR have ? Do they use them ?

CO19 · 25-01-2010 11:00pm

Hope this helps

. (might be an idea to stickie this somewhere)

Duties and Powers of Reserve Gardaí

Reserve Garda powers are as follows :-

Road Traffic Act 1961/2006

•Power to demand production of driving licence in accordance with Section 40 of the Road Traffic Act, 1961/2006;
•Power to demand production of a certificate of insurance or exemption in accordance with Section 69 of the Road Traffic Act, 1961/2006.
•Power to regulate traffic movement in accordance with Section 91 of the Road Traffic Act, 1961/2006.
•Power to require person driving vehicle in a public place to stop in accordance with Section 109 of the Road Traffic Act, 1961/2006.

Power of arrest without warrant for the following:-
•Section 40 (4)(a) & (b) Road Traffic Act, 1961/2006
•Section 69 (5) Road Traffic Act, 1961/2006.
•Section 109 Road Traffic Act, 1961/2006.
•Section 4(3) of the Criminal Law Act 1997 (power of arrest for an ‘arrestable offence’)

The duties of a Reserve Garda are as follows:

•Station duty, other than the care and custody of prisoners;
•Assistant to the Station Orderly;
•Communications room duty, to include monitoring CCTV
•Foot patrol, accompanied by a member of the permanent Garda Service.
•Static security duty;
•Road traffic checkpoint duties, accompanied by a full-time member;
•Duty at the outer cordon of major events such as festivals and major
sporting events;
•Assisting in the event of accidents, fires and major emergencies;
•Giving evidence in court;
•Community/Neighbourhood Policing.

http://www.justice.ie/en/JELR/Pages/WP07000568

Dubbhoy · 28-01-2010 10:10pm

Can anyone define theses •Section 40 (4)(a) & (b) Road Traffic Act, 1961/2006
•Section 69 (5) Road Traffic Act, 1961/2006.
•Section 109 Road Traffic Act, 1961/2006.
•Section 4(3) of the Criminal Law Act 1997 (power of arrest for an ‘arrestable offence’)

sdanseo · 05-02-2010 1:11am

All available on www.irishstatutebook.ie

My understanding is that arrest without warrant means just that - read the dude his rights as a fulltime member would. Arrestable offence in the last for the four under the criminal law act can be undertaken by any member of the opublic although it's rare and not encouraged.

Hooch · 05-02-2010 10:11am

Dubbhoy wrote: »

Can anyone define theses •Section 40 (4)(a) & (b) Road Traffic Act, 1961/2006
•Section 69 (5) Road Traffic Act, 1961/2006.
•Section 109 Road Traffic Act, 1961/2006.
•Section 4(3) of the Criminal Law Act 1997 (power of arrest for an ‘arrestable offence’)

Section 40 is Driving licence and failing to give name or allow member to examine

Section 69 is insurance and again not giving name or refusing to allow member to examine.

Section 4 CLA is power of arrest for an arrestable offence. An arrestable offence is an office that carrys, on inditment a sentence of 5 years or more.

Now as for Section 109......I have never heard of a power of arrest for that......

tcd · 22-02-2010 1:06am

so basically a reservist has the same power as a citizen does to arrest?whats the point in that

Shield · 22-02-2010 1:14am

That's not what it says. Where are you seeing that?

opti76 · 22-02-2010 2:23am

tcd wrote: »

so basically a reservist has the same power as a citizen does to arrest?whats the point in that

section 4 cla is the "citizens arrest"

the rest arent ... but in order to effect a citizens arrest you have to be in a position to know that it was an offence a citizen can arrest for..

4.—(1) Subject to subsections (4) and (5), any person may arrest without warrant anyone who is or whom he or she, with reasonable cause, suspects to be in the act of committing an arrestable offence.
(2) Subject to subsections (4) and (5), where an arrestable offence has been committed, any person may arrest without warrant anyone who is or whom he or she, with reasonable cause, suspects to be guilty of the offence.
(3) Where a member of the Garda Síochána, with reasonable cause, suspects that an arrestable offence has been committed, he or she may arrest without warrant anyone whom the member, with reasonable cause, suspects to be guilty of the offence.
(4) An arrest other than by a member of the Garda Síochána may only be effected by a person under subsection (1) or (2) where he or she, with reasonable cause, suspects that the person to be arrested by him or her would otherwise attempt to avoid, or is avoiding, arrest by a member of the Garda Síochána.
(5) A person who is arrested pursuant to this section by a person other than a member of the Garda Síochána shall be transferred into the custody of the Garda Síochána as soon as practicable.
(6) This section shall not affect the operation of any enactment restricting the institution of proceedings for an offence or prejudice any power of arrest conferred by law apart from this section.

Scouser · 22-02-2010 12:46pm

does a reserve have powers of search?

does the reserve have any powers with regards to drugs - aressts, searches etc?

da__flash · 22-02-2010 7:28pm

Scouser wrote: »

does a reserve have powers of search?

does the reserve have any powers with regards to drugs - aressts, searches etc?

if directed by a full time member to search a person yes they can search but i dont think they have powers to do so them selves..

you have no powers regards to arrests with drugs

tcd · 22-02-2010 8:53pm

do they have powers to arrest for the likes of drunken disorderly breach of peace etc??

rubensni · 22-02-2010 9:01pm

They're always with a full garda. They don't go around on their own searching people under the Misuse of Drugs Acts, or locking them up under the Public Order Acts, that's work for real guards owing to the physical risks involved.

tcd · 22-02-2010 9:05pm

i know that but what im tryin to know is that do they have to power to arrest for public order offences if they see them committed?

Shield · 22-02-2010 9:06pm

Not unless they are accompanied by a full time member AND on duty.

tcd · 22-02-2010 9:09pm

thanks a lot, cleared that up for me. was tryin to look for simple english for their powers.cheers. do you know when they are taking in more recruits?

da__flash · 22-02-2010 9:18pm

psni wrote: »

Not unless they are accompanied by a full time member AND on duty.

Reserves actually have no powers of arrest under the public order act the cant arrest for public order incidents. it is the full time member who is on duty will do the arresting and make the call whether to arrest or not..

In plain english the following are the only thing reserves can arrest for:
Section 40 of RTA is Driving licence and failing to give name or allow member to examine. Reserve has power of arrest

Section 69 of RTA is insurance and again not giving name or refusing to allow member to examine. Reserve has a power of arrest

Section 4 CLA is power of arrest for an arrestable offence. An arrestable offence is an office that carrys, on inditment a sentence of 5 years or more.

Hope this clears things up.

Shield · 22-02-2010 9:19pm

Well it's still being advertised on PAS so I assume they're accepting applications now.

Shield · 22-02-2010 9:20pm

It does thanks. I thought the OP meant can a Reserve assist in the arrest of a suspect. My "bad".

da__flash wrote: »

Reserves actually have no powers of arrest under the public order act the cant arrest for public order incidents. it is the full time member who is on duty will do the arresting and make the call whether to arrest or not..

In plain english the following are the only thing reserves can arrest for:
Section 40 of RTA is Driving licence and failing to give name or allow member to examine. Reserve has power of arrest

Section 69 of RTA is insurance and again not giving name or refusing to allow member to examine. Reserve has a power of arrest

Section 4 CLA is power of arrest for an arrestable offence. An arrestable offence is an office that carrys, on inditment a sentence of 5 years or more.

Hope this clears things up.

da__flash · 22-02-2010 9:22pm

No probelmo just a little help from your neighbourhood flash :cool:

Shield · 22-02-2010 9:23pm

Careful now, or you'll be asked to help mod this place!

da__flash · 22-02-2010 9:24pm

me never :cool: I dont think i d be trusted with the awesome power:pac:

tcd · 22-02-2010 9:28pm

i cant seem to find out how to apply on publicjobs.ie

any help?

Hooch · 22-02-2010 9:28pm

da__flash wrote: »

me never :cool: I dont think i d be trusted with the awesome power:pac:

Hey....they trusted psni and look what he did to the place:pac::p

da__flash · 22-02-2010 9:29pm

nice guy always wrote: »

Hey....they trusted psni and look what he did to the place:pac::p

two shay:pac::cool:

tcd · 07-03-2010 11:33pm

In the case of someone assaulting you on duty..clearly a reserve has the power to arrest?

Shield · 08-03-2010 12:07am

But reserves are only on duty while accompanied by a full-time member!

da__flash · 08-03-2010 12:47am

tcd wrote: »

In the case of someone assaulting you on duty..clearly a reserve has the power to arrest?

no you do not have a power to arrest as there is no power laid done for it.. the full time member would arrest do under a different act do...

klong · 08-03-2010 10:56am

In the case of someone assaulting you on duty..clearly a reserve has the power to arrest?

da__flash wrote: »

no you do not have a power to arrest as there is no power laid done for it.. the full time member would arrest do under a different act do...

Surely the answer would be "yes...but".

From DoJ website:

Garda Reserve powers are as follows :-

Road Traffic Act 1961/2006

* Power to demand production of driving licence in accordance with Section 40 of the Road Traffic Act, 1961/2006;
* Power to demand production of a certificate of insurance or exemption in accordance with Section 69 of the Road Traffic Act, 1961/2006.
* Power to regulate traffic movement in accordance with Section 91 of the Road Traffic Act, 1961/2006.
* Power to require person driving vehicle in a public place to stop in accordance with Section 109 of the Road Traffic Act, 1961/2006.

Power of arrest without warrant

* Section 40 (4)(a) & (b) Road Traffic Act, 1961/2006
* Section 69 (5) Road Traffic Act, 1961/2006.
* Section 109 Road Traffic Act, 1961/2006.
* Section 4(3) of the Criminal Law Act 1997 (power of arrest for an ‘arrestable offence’)

Citizens Information website defines an "arrestable offence" as:

"Just as the Bail Act 1997 created a distinction between serious and non-serious offences, the Criminal Law Act 1997 abolished the distinction between a felony and misdemeanour and created the arrestable/non-arrestable distinction. The Act defines an arrestable offence as an offence for which a person could be punished by imprisonment for 5 years or more, similar to the definition of a serious offence mentioned above."

Now, an example where an arrest could technically be possible.

s. 4 Non-Fatal Offences Against the Person Act:

4.—(1) A person who intentionally or recklessly causes serious harm to another shall be guilty of an offence.
[GA]

(2) A person guilty of an offence under this section shall be liable on conviction on indictment to a fine or to imprisonment for life or to both.

5.—(1) A person who, without lawful excuse, makes to another a threat, by any means intending the other to believe it will be carried out, to kill or cause serious harm to that other or a third person shall be guilty of an offence.
[GA]

(2) A person guilty of an offence under this section shall be liable—
[GA]

( a ) on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding £1,500 or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 12 months or to both, or
[GA]

( b ) on conviction on indictment to a fine or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 10 years or to both.

6.—(1) A person who—
[GA]

( a ) injures another by piercing the skin of that other with a syringe, or
[GA]

( b ) threatens to so injure another with a syringe,
[GA]

with the intention of or where there is a likelihood of causing that other to believe that he or she may become infected with disease as a result of the injury caused or threatened shall be guilty of an offence.
[GA]

(2) A person who—
[GA]

( a ) sprays, pours or puts onto another blood or any fluid or substance resembling blood, or
[GA]

( b ) threatens to spray, pour or put onto another blood or any fluid or substance resembling blood,
[GA]

with the intention of or where there is a likelihood of causing that other to believe that he or she may become infected with disease as a result of the action caused or threatened shall be guilty of an offence.
[GA]

(3) A person who in committing or attempting to commit an offence under subsection (1) or (2)—
[GA]

( a ) injures a third person with a syringe by piercing his or her skin, or
[GA]

( b ) sprays, pours or puts onto a third person blood or any fluid or substance resembling blood,
[GA]

resulting in the third person believing that he or she may become infected with disease as a result of the injury or action caused shall be guilty of an offence.
[GA]

(4) A person guilty of an offence under subsection (1), (2) or (3) shall be liable—
[GA]

( a ) on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding £1,500 or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 12 months or to both, or
[GA]

( b ) on conviction on indictment to a fine or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 10 years or to both.
[GA]

( 5 ) ( a ) A person who intentionally injures another by piercing the skin of that other with a contaminated syringe shall be guilty of an offence.
[GA]

( b ) A person who intentionally sprays, pours or puts onto another contaminated blood shall be guilty of an offence.
[GA]

( c ) A person who in committing or attempting to commit an offence under paragraph (a) or (b)—
[GA]

(i) injures a third person with a contaminated syringe by piercing his or her skin, or
[GA]

(ii) sprays, pours or puts onto a third person contaminated blood, shall be guilty of an offence.
[GA]

( d ) A person guilty of an offence under this subsection shall be liable on conviction on indictment to imprisonment for life.

So my opinion would be "yes, but...", the "but" being that it depends on the individual circumstances. (Just my opinion BTW

)

Hooch · 08-03-2010 12:51pm

klong wrote: »

Surely the answer would be "yes...but".

Section 4 "assualt" is assault causing serious harm, much like GBH in the UK.

It can only be used in extreme cases of assault and is usually passed over for attempted murder etc.

So no......I cant see anyone arresting for this....

A simple assault, Section 2 "Assault", has no power of arrest/detention.

A Section 3 "Assault" is an arrestable offence and has a lower level of assault IE - broken nose etc. A GR could arrest in this instance......once they are SURE the DPP will run with Section 3.

Assault of a peace office is covered under Section 19 Criminal Justic (Public Order) Act '94 and is also an arrestabe offence. GR would be covered under this as would persons who are coming to the aid of AGS members.

klong · 08-03-2010 1:22pm

nice guy always wrote: »

Section 4 "assualt" is assault causing serious harm, much like GBH in the UK.

It can only be used in extreme cases of assault and is usually passed over for attempted murder etc.

So no......I cant see anyone arresting for this....

A simple assault, Section 2 "Assault", has no power of arrest/detention.

A Section 3 "Assault" is an arrestable offence and has a lower level of assault IE - broken nose etc. A GR could arrest in this instance......once they are SURE the DPP will run with Section 3.

Assault of a peace office is covered under Section 19 Criminal Justic (Public Order) Act '94 and is also an arrestabe offence. GR would be covered under this as would persons who are coming to the aid of AGS members.

Fair cop, missed s. 3. Is there case law or guidance available to differentiate between a s. 3 assault and a s. 4 assault causing serious harm? Just curious...

Hooch · 08-03-2010 1:27pm

klong wrote: »

Fair cop, missed s. 3. Is there case law or guidance available to differentiate between a s. 3 assault and a s. 4 assault causing serious harm? Just curious...

Yes there is. However it is usually skipped as I said. There is no case law differentiating it and Murder etc. So its really a piece of legislation rearly used. Each assault is taken on its own merits.

da__flash · 08-03-2010 9:12pm

i was going to include all this in early post but my hand was aaaaaa hand was "sore" at the time :cool: haha.. nothing to do with lazyness :P

tcd · 08-03-2010 9:59pm

da__flash wrote: »

i was going to include all this in early post but my hand was aaaaaa hand was "sore" at the time :cool: haha.. nothing to do with lazyness :P

thanks for the link here..but still am confused because all this legislation is confusing

if someone hits you on duty not with a syringe or anything but simply a punch can you arrest?

da__flash · 08-03-2010 10:02pm

tcd wrote: »

thanks for the link here..but still am confused because all this legislation is confusing

if someone hits you on duty not with a syringe or anything but simply a punch can you arrest?

i ll leave you with easiest course of action take the simple punch and the full time member will arrest problem solved and no need to worry

eru123 · 07-08-2010 4:16pm

Hi,

Reserve Gardaí have been on duty for some time now, if anyone has arrested anyone could they tell about there experience please.

It would seem that you would leave the arresting up to the full timer but in practical terms, im sure the full timer will not be there to see everything that happens to you.

Eg outside a nightclub with large crowd and someone pushes you and abuses you while the full timer is engaged elsewhere.
i know you can arrest them for an assult of a peace officer which is an arrestable offence, which you have the power, but has anyone done so?

I wouldnt expect that you'd have to arrest anyone for Road Traffic offences so your arrest would mainly fall under the arrestable offences power, would you agree? Also would you arrest again for something similar or was it alot of hassle for you?

Thanks for your help.

Garda Reserve Duties & Powers

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