STOVES questions and answers here(see mod note in post 1)

i am on the lookout for a stove with a boiler that can carry four radiators, two of then small double, one big and one medium double, what stove should i be looking at

Rain_Dog_Brian wrote: »

Thanks Stove Fan.
Photos attached if you wouldn't mind having a look.
Following the original photo, the builder built a block support behind the metal support pole for structural support. Then he put up pink Fireboard around the main brick chimney breast using timber studs for certain areas. You can see the timber on the third photo, up sides and across top of recess.

The Vega 100 (Penman collection) 5kW non-boiler multi fuel stove is ordered but I don't have installation guide yet but want to have place ready for installation.

Considering:
-Take wood studs out
-For recess, stick Scamolex board to LHS Block, back concrete, RHS bricks

-But I don't know whether I can keep the pink fireboard on my chimney breast, all the way to the recess, and if so how to afix fireboard to the edge of the recess...

Grateful for any better options.
Brian

Hi, what your builder has done is a fire hazard:eek: As you have mentioned is to remove all the timber and pink plasterboard from the fireplace back to the bare brick/ block and then render and skim the front face of the chimney and side and then cut scamolex to line the inside and glue it to the wall with suitable adhesive.

If you don't want to use scamolex you could get a plasterer to render and plaster the inside as well. The render inside could crack with the heat but its cheaper than buying scamolex.

I suggest to get a plasterer in to render and plaster it out after removing the timber and pink plasterboard.

Is the wall on the right of the picture a solid or hollow wall?

I liked the old stove:) I bet it was rather hot in there.

Stove Fan:)

Stove Fan wrote: »

Hi:) The only models that charnwood do with the external air kit are the Cove and Island Range. Their boiler stoves cant have this feature.

See:
http://www.charnwood.com/range/stove/charnwood-external-air-manifold.aspx

I will see if there are others:)

Stove Fan:)

Q for Stovefan again Im afraid. I was seriously looking at a Vision 500 with external air and flexible flue, etc, etc. I thought we were both agreed on this but now my wife went to see a guy about a granite hearth and he was also Charwood supplier and is now very interested in the Island 8kw stove. It is slightly cheaper that the Clearview but the guy is insisting that the flexi flue is a waste of time in a new clay lined chimney so all in all the Charnwood is looking good value. My simple Q is ,of 2 stoves mentioned which one would you prefer and I know this has been done to death but in a new internal clay lined chimney that is approx 5m high (single story room) would not going with a flexi liner be a bad idea. Also the Island has a double door which I thought was bad for air tightness and I want a stove that is as airtight as possible. Does the Clearview trump the Island on this front??

Again I was pretty well sold on the clearview with flexi but I am in danger of being usurped because of a good value granite hearth.

Advice greatly appreciated!!

creedp wrote: »

Q for Stovefan again Im afraid. I was seriously looking at a Vision 500 with external air and flexible flue, etc, etc. I thought we were both agreed on this but now my wife went to see a guy about a granite hearth and he was also Charwood supplier and is now very interested in the Island 8kw stove. It is slightly cheaper that the Clearview but the guy is insisting that the flexi flue is a waste of time in a new clay lined chimney so all in all the Charnwood is looking good value. My simple Q is ,of 2 stoves mentioned which one would you prefer and I know this has been done to death but in a new internal clay lined chimney that is approx 5m high (single story room) would not going with a flexi liner be a bad idea. Also the Island has a double door which I thought was bad for air tightness and I want a stove that is as airtight as possible. Does the Clearview trump the Island on this front??

Again I was pretty well sold on the clearview with flexi but I am in danger of being usurped because of a good value granite hearth.

Advice greatly appreciated!!

The vision and charnwood are both excellent stoves. The island is one of charnwoods premium range and is excellent. It's really deciding on the one you like most and fits your fireplace best.

As your chimney is only 5m heigh I would line it as it's a better job and makes cleaning the chimney easy. The problems with joining the stove flue pipe to a clay lined chimney is if the clay adapter can't seal you could get tarry condensation running down onto the stove. Fitting a liner avoids this problem. I would think the liner would be around 50 euro a metre. I would think fitting would take anywhere from 30mins to a few hours labour if the flue is straight.

www.whatstove.co.uk (The website seems down at the moment)

Here is a charnwood island alight. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2eR9ODEnNf0
Stove Fan:)

Stove Fan wrote: »

The vision and charnwood are both excellent stoves. The island is one of charnwoods premium range and is excellent. It's really deciding on the one you like most and fits your fireplace best.

As your chimney is only 5m heigh I would line it as it's a better job and makes cleaning the chimney easy. The problems with joining the stove flue pipe to a clay lined chimney is if the clay adapter can't seal you could get tarry condensation running down onto the stove. Fitting a liner avoids this problem. I would think the liner would be around 50 euro a metre. I would think fitting would take anywhere from 30mins to a few hours labour if the flue is straight.

www.whatstove.co.uk (The website seems down at the moment)

Here is a charnwood island alight. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2eR9ODEnNf0
Stove Fan:)

Thanks Stovefan


That's the issue, Im not totally concerned with the look and consider the Clearview an efficient stove thats also a nice stove. However, the Charnwood Island II is considerd a better looking stove and the retailer made a big sales pitch about the grate which can be adjusted from wood to multi-fuel with a simple lever and also this allows any ash to fall into an ash pan which can be simply removed for disposal of ash without opening the stove. This was a real selling point.

My big Q again is which of the 2 stoves is more airtight/sealed to the room. Also how does the Island II compare to the country 8, the latter seems to be a littled bit more efficient at around 80% compared to the Island II at 78% - I know what's the difference!!

On the lining issue I've almost given up arguing. I would install and the quoted cost for the materials including all clamps/backfill is approx €500. Then of course there is the fitting- that quote offerred a full fitting services for another €400 whereas the builder said he would just fit the stove for no extra cost - he is not too enthuastic about the flexible flue. However, he is the guy that put a 45deg bend in the flue about 0.5m above flue end and insisted anyone who argued a straight flue was better simply didn't know what they were talking about!

creedp wrote: »

Thanks Stovefan


That's the issue, Im not totally concerned with the look and consider the Clearview an efficient stove thats also a nice stove. However, the Charnwood Island II is considerd a better looking stove and the retailer made a big sales pitch about the grate which can be adjusted from wood to multi-fuel with a simple lever and also this allows any ash to fall into an ash pan which can be simply removed for disposal of ash without opening the stove. This was a real selling point.

My big Q again is which of the 2 stoves is more airtight/sealed to the room. Also how does the Island II compare to the country 8, the latter seems to be a littled bit more efficient at around 80% compared to the Island II at 78% - I know what's the difference!!

On the lining issue I've almost given up arguing. I would install and the quoted cost for the materials including all clamps/backfill is approx €500. Then of course there is the fitting- that quote offerred a full fitting services for another €400 whereas the builder said he would just fit the stove for no extra cost - he is not too enthuastic about the flexible flue. However, he is the guy that put a 45deg bend in the flue about 0.5m above flue end and insisted anyone who argued a straight flue was better simply didn't know what they were talking about!

The grate and air controls on the island is a superb design. The country 8 is charnwoods more lower priced stove and so does let air in. The two stoves are very airtight but I have to say if I was buying I would choose the Island especially if burning coal. The island and cove are there more premium and higher quality range. I think although clearview are multifuel I think they are more suited to burning wood.

A stove installer on a forum I go on has his own buisiness in the UK has a island stove and he really rates it:)

See a discussion on Clearview and Charnwood.
http://www.thegreenlivingforum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=104946

I would have a seperate person in to install the liner and stove.

I can't believe in this day and age that the old wives tale is still doing the rounds with regards bends in flues:rolleyes:

Stove Fan:)

LovelyHurlin wrote: »

Great thread, which I have gleaned tons of information off...so to start off, thanks to everyone!

I am in the middle of researching which stove to get. I am looking for:
- Non-boiler, multifuel stove, around 8-9kw output, traditional enough design. The room is a 50 sq metre open plan kitchen/dining/living area. It's a new extension that is well insulated. Ceilings averaging about 2.5metres.

I have spoken to alot of different stove suppliers. The problem with alot of thes suppliers, I found, is that they act as agents to particular brands so their advice isn't exactly impartial!

To cut to the chase, I have gotten prices for the following models, all coming in at around €1250 delivered (not including flu or fitting).

Nestor Martin Harmony I
Stanford 80
Charnwood Country 8
Stovax Stockton 8

Any advice on the pros/cons for these models? I have checked whatstove.co.uk, but I was hoping for some first hand experience that anyone might have

I know some of these models are cast iron and some are steel, does this make a big difference durability/quality?

Thanks in advance,

LH.

Hi:) The first two makes I dont know anything about:( The charnwood and stovax are good makes and both made of steel with cast components
. You would be happy enough with both but myself I have to say I like the look of the stovax stockton. I do think the country would be a more hard wearing stove but not as good airwash and as airtight as the stockton.
Either cast iron or steel is just as good so long they are both good quality stoves.
View them if you haven't already and see which you prefer.

Stove Fan:)

goat2 wrote: »

it will sit in front of the fire,
there will be one six foot single radiator, tow very small double radiators, and a double four foot radiator. i am hoping to cover the lot along with the person fitting at about two thousand,

Hi:) I have used these sizes of rads:


1x 600mm x 2000 single.
2x 600mm x 600 double.
1x 600mm x 1200 double.
total rad output 6.5Kw
Plus hot water +3.0Kw
Total =9.5kw


If your radiators are a bit smaller you could buy a stove with an 8kw boiler.

The following are possibles keeping the price of the stove low, but please check the rad sizes and if smaller most of these will be suitable.



Aarrow ecoboiler EB9HE. 9Kw to water.
http://www.stratfordboilerstoves.co.uk/models/freestanding-stoves/eb9-he.html

Hunter herald 8b (wraparound boiler) 8.5kw max to water.
http://www.hunterstoves.co.uk/Stoves/Herald8heating.html

Broseley hercules 12B. 8kw to water.
http://www.broseleyfires.com/Multifuel-Stoves/Hercules-12B_Boiler-Stove.html

Yeoman devon 50HB. 8.2kw to water.
http://yeoman-stoves.co.uk/html/devon50-hb.html

The ecoboiler would be my favourite and then the yeoman for room heat if it's a nice sized room.

Stove Fan:)

Stove Fan wrote: »

Hi:) There are no disadvantages in using a flexi liner apart from the cost.

Advantages:

Better draw as the clay chimney doesn't absorb the heat.
Liner keeps the chimney warm and stops condensation in the flue.
No risk of tar and condensation leaking out at the clay adapter.
very easy to sweep as the flue is all one size.
How do you sweep through a 6 inch flue to an 8 inch clay flue to clean the chimney well.
Extra fire protection should the worst happen.

Disadvantages:

Cost of liner and fitting.

The fitter just probably didn't want to go on the roof to install the liner.


Stove Fan:)

Stove Fan, cheers for that, ya only do this job 1s or 1s in a pretty longtime and want to do it right. i will have the flexi flu liner in myself and have it in for when he comes to fit the stove. the old oil flexi flu has to come out anyhow. im hoping the 316 grade will be ok becuase the 904 is pretty expensive. also this will be for a stovax stockton 14hb, mainly burning sticks and small bit of coal.
just abit of topic of the flexi flu liner, whats your thoughts on a charnwood country 16b, we have only about 10 rads now, i know the stockton 14hb can heat up to 19, my reasons for this stove was to maybe change the rads to doubles in the future, i think im just gonna have to go and look at the 2 stoves and see them in the flesh. to look at and for quality which would you prefer Stove Fan.
cheers

Nermal wrote: »

Hi Stovefan! The largest room in my house is a combined kitchen/dining room. Unfortunately there's no expanse of wall suitable for putting a radiator on.

There is however an open fireplace, that I've ripped everything out of so it's literally just a hole now. There's a gas available next to it. My plan was to get a gas stove installed there. So the stove would be the only source of heat for that room. I've figured out I need 3.5kW.

However I've been told that they're not suitable for constant use - if run constantly they'll break down or require replacement much sooner. I won't be running them constantly though - the room is insulated, and will probably only require heating three months of the year for two/three hours a day. Will this level of usage be a problem or am I worrying too much here?

Hi:) I have never heard about them being unreliable and dont really see why they would. I dont think you will have any problems with any usage really.

Stove Fan:)

Stove Fan wrote: »

Hi:) I have used these sizes of rads:


1x 600mm x 2000 single.
2x 600mm x 600 double.
1x 600mm x 1200 double.
total rad output 6.5Kw
Plus hot water +3.0Kw
Total =9.5kw


If your radiators are a bit smaller you could buy a stove with an 8kw boiler.

The following are possibles keeping the price of the stove low, but please check the rad sizes and if smaller most of these will be suitable.



Aarrow ecoboiler EB9HE. 9Kw to water.
http://www.stratfordboilerstoves.co.uk/models/freestanding-stoves/eb9-he.html

Hunter herald 8b (wraparound boiler) 8.5kw max to water.
http://www.hunterstoves.co.uk/Stoves/Herald8heating.html

Broseley hercules 12B. 8kw to water.
http://www.broseleyfires.com/Multifuel-Stoves/Hercules-12B_Boiler-Stove.html

Yeoman devon 50HB. 8.2kw to water.
http://yeoman-stoves.co.uk/html/devon50-hb.html

The ecoboiler would be my favourite and then the yeoman for room heat if it's a nice sized room.

Stove Fan:)

can it cause problems if i were one double radiator short,
what is the dimensions of the smallest double radiator on the market, as i would be looking for two as the places is small, and i am looking at one 600mm single and one 600mm double radiator

Surfn wrote: »

i was looking at stoves yesterday in a showroom, it was my first time to see the charnwood country 16b in the flesh, im not keen on the look of it, the island 3b now is a lovely looking stove, very keen on that also the stove that i like the stovax stockton 14hb is a great looking stove. i also wanted to see a clearview 750 but they hadnt got 1 of them. the clearview 750 has a hotplate on it, has any1 got 1 of these stoves because id like to know if you could boil a kettle on it or say cook a pot of spuds on it

Hi:) The charnwood 3b is a superb stove and is a way better stove than the country models. The island 3b is quite expensive though. Was the hotplate a boiler model though on the clearview? The good thing with clearview and woodwarm stoves is the large boilers can be fitted after and so if a leak develops years after you can just replace the boiler and not have to buy a new stove:).
Another stove that is great is; http://www.dunsleyheat.co.uk/yorkshirestoveCH.htm
see www.whatstove.co.uk for reviews on the dunsley yorkshire.

Woodwarm apparently were formed from clearview employees and make great stoves.
http://www.woodwarmstoves.co.uk/


Stove Fan:)

maringo wrote: »

Have just got a stove Olymberyl fitted and notice only about 60mm space above the stobe between it and the chimney bottom which I think is concrete lintel - is this safe? The stove has a boiler and we have plumber who fitted it coming back tomorrow. I'm a bit worried having just read previous threads that 6 inches should be left between top of stove and bottom of chimney breast. It has a stainless flue fitted would appreciate any advice that you have stovefan.

Hi 300mm clearance above the stove and 150mm either side is the building regulation minimum for a stove inside an opening in the UK. If the heat can't escape it may crack a cast iron stove.

I would have the lintel raised or if the hearth is deep enough bring the stove forward so at least most of it forward from the lintel. Still has to have 300mm depth of hearth in front of the stove.

Stove Fan:)

Hi,
Looking for some advice on inset stoves.
Have a width of around 670mm and looked at a Tripp TR8C (€1500), a Bodart & Gonay Infire 683 (€2500), and a Wanders Square 68 (€2000).
Besides the additional fans and thermostat on the Bodart & Gonay would there be much of a quality difference between these or are there any better alternatives?
We want a minimalist inset style with maximum glass on the front.

Also the budget isn't huge, hoping for a total installed price of around €2000 as minimal work is required on the fireplace.

Would be grateful for any tips as its all new to me!

Thanks

guinness queen wrote: »

hi Stove Fan,
I am back again, I looked at my dovre and found it is 8Kw, which you suggest is far too big for my room 19 x 15 x 8ft. I believe a 6Kw will be just fine, No boiler required, I realise that my 18" heats my room ok, but it takes a great deal of fuel, and more imprtant I hate to light it and then go out, because of the danger of fire.
Could you again give me a list of good cast iron (not chinese) that you consider good. I believe there is a long waiting list for some stoves, it this true.? You are a very patient person, giving invaluable advice to all, and it is much appreciated. Cheers

Hi thanks:) Some stoves do have a long waiting list due to being popular!! I don't know of many cast iron stoves I could reccommend or are familiar with but morso is a great brand. Look at the 6kw Badger and Owl models.
I'm sure others will advice on other cast iron stoves. Does it have to be cast iron? There is a lot more choice in steel stoves. Like a clearview vision 500!
http://www.clearviewstoves.com/vision500.htm

Stove Fan:)

Hi there,

I'm considering installing a stove to heat a reasonably size-able open plan area in an existing house (approx 16 years old).
The area is approx 60sq metres. It comprises a kitchen area, dining area and sun-room (used as a living room). This open plan area is where we spend most of our time in the house. Each of the 3 areas is approx 20sq metres of the overall 60sq metres, and the sunroom has vaulted ceilings.

We're looking at a circa 9KW solution.

We would be after a very contemporary looking stove to fit in with the overall style of the area.

We have 2 options:
1/ Convert an existing fire place in the dining area to an inset one.
2/ Block off the existing fireplace (maybe just with a chimney balloon), and install a new free standing stove into the sunroom area.

I've looked into number 1 and it looks like it could get very pricey, - ie. with flue lining, widening of fire opening, installation, removal of existing surround etc. I think you're looking at 1500euro minimum in installation work, at a conservative estimate.

I've just thought of number 2 (new free standing stove in the sunroom) as another option.
This would involve bringing a flue up and out of the sun-room. Actually it would probably need to exit at the top of the wall rather than the roof, - because there are decorative wooden beams on the roof. There are also quite a few windows in the sunroom which isn't ideal, - but, it is a very pleasant room in which we spend a lot of time.
We'd actually prefer this (option number 2) as we would get more enjoyment of the stove because it would be where we watch TV etc. and could act somewhat as a focal point.

I'm just wondering, - is the installation of such a free standing stove (obviously flue is required) generally more or less costly than converting an existing fireplace?
Are there any important factors to consider?

Thanks in advance!

(PS, this thread has already been most helpful)

joec1 wrote: »

Stovefan,
If I could get some advice please regarding which stove to buy.
I have figured out that I need around 6kw and no more to the room and much as possible to the boiler (need to heat about 13 rads). I have been researching the henley blasket, mulbery beckett, charnwood 16b, olymberl aidan.
I know the charnwood is a good bit more expensive than the rest, but I have a feeling that is because it is better built. Is this true, and what would you recommed that I go for. Maybe you could suggest something different. Some guys in the shops say things like "the henley is too new and we are wary" or "the mulbery is crap and we have people bringing in worn out parts".
I find it difficult to get impartial advice,

Any thoughts on this would be very much appreciated, as we are ready to make the plunge in the next week or so.

I really need the required output:) as 13 rads could be a very large output if they are all doubles.

Stove Fan:)

mariskalisa wrote: »

Hi

Could someone help me please? I would like to get a boiler stove fitted to provide hot water and to heat radiators but am unsure of what output I would need. I have asked several plumbers and they all gave me different answers from 9KW to 14KW to 28KW so I'm a bit confused.

The measurements of my rads are as follows: 2 doubles 1700mm x 500mm, 1 double 2400mm x 600mm, 1 double 1300mm x 700mm, 1 single 2000mm x 600mm, 1 single 950mm x 700mm, 2 singles 1700mm x 500mm and 1 single 1450mm x 500mm.

Any feedback would be really helpful

Mari

Hi:) based on the rad sizes given then your looking for a 24kw boiler stove. Aarrow stratford TF90 is a possible.

Heinbloed is right though in that it really needs the heat loss calculated as generally not all installers size the rads to the required heat loss for a certain room. This can lead to a radiator being too big or sometimes even too small. Unfortunately though if all the rads are all oversized there isnt much point in fitting a much smaller boiler stove.

Stove Fan:)

ravendude wrote: »

Hi there,

I'm considering installing a stove to heat a reasonably size-able open plan area in an existing house (approx 16 years old).
The area is approx 60sq metres. It comprises a kitchen area, dining area and sun-room (used as a living room). This open plan area is where we spend most of our time in the house. Each of the 3 areas is approx 20sq metres of the overall 60sq metres, and the sunroom has vaulted ceilings.

We're looking at a circa 9KW solution.

We would be after a very contemporary looking stove to fit in with the overall style of the area.

We have 2 options:
1/ Convert an existing fire place in the dining area to an inset one.
2/ Block off the existing fireplace (maybe just with a chimney balloon), and install a new free standing stove into the sunroom area.

I've looked into number 1 and it looks like it could get very pricey, - ie. with flue lining, widening of fire opening, installation, removal of existing surround etc. I think you're looking at 1500euro minimum in installation work, at a conservative estimate.

I've just thought of number 2 (new free standing stove in the sunroom) as another option.
This would involve bringing a flue up and out of the sun-room. Actually it would probably need to exit at the top of the wall rather than the roof, - because there are decorative wooden beams on the roof. There are also quite a few windows in the sunroom which isn't ideal, - but, it is a very pleasant room in which we spend a lot of time.
We'd actually prefer this (option number 2) as we would get more enjoyment of the stove because it would be where we watch TV etc. and could act somewhat as a focal point.

I'm just wondering, - is the installation of such a free standing stove (obviously flue is required) generally more or less costly than converting an existing fireplace?
Are there any important factors to consider?

Thanks in advance!

(PS, this thread has already been most helpful)

Hi:) both options could be pricey:( The stove in the sun room could cost more depending on the height of the new insulated twin wall chimney. Are you sure 9kw is enough heat? I may be wrong but think 12 kw would be wiser with having an open plan layout and one vaulted ceiling.

It would be best to get 3 quotes and see what they suggest:)

Stove Fan:)