FAS Work Placement Program

ThomasCreeby · 12-03-2010 2:24pm #1

In a time of deep recession I am absolutely baffled how the government can sponsor a program where by companies are paid to take on new staff, who can then work for said companies for periods of up to 12 months while receiving only their dole as compensation for working the guts of a 40 hour week.
Slave labour and the reduction of the minimum wage is already here and its called the FAS Work Placement Program.
I'm 24 years old and I've been unemployed for over a year and frankly I find it disgusting. I'm really sick of logging onto the FAS website and finding that 90% of the jobs they now advertise are WPP schemes.
What I find even more insidious however is that a person can have their Jobseekers Allowance cut if they are not prepared to be forced by the government to work for less than the minimum wage???
This is the type of "innovation" is emblematic of the Irish Government's attitude towards young people trying to find work.
How many of the companies who have signed up for cheap labour are actually that poorly off that they aren't arsed paying a receptionist or an admin?
The whole WPP stinks to high heaven of incompetence and wasted money, not to mention offering zero financial incentive to get people back to work.
Does anyone else think this entire scheme is comically inept at trying to achieve what it set out to or am I alone in thinking its a pile of b*%$cks?

Cheers Boards,

Thomas

Riskymove · 12-03-2010 2:27pm

I am pretty sure there was another thread in the last month or two on this where the issues were debated in detail.

Obviously it depends on what duties workers are being asked to perform while on placement but the idea seems to be that (a) its some form of experience for people to put on a cv when lookiong for work and (b) better than having people with nothing to do on the dole.

it can obviously be open to explotaition by employers

eman66 · 12-03-2010 2:30pm

Until they can train the monkeys to the required level, FAS work placements will have to continue. It's just business.

ei.sdraob · 12-03-2010 2:33pm

ThomasCreeby wrote: »

I'm 24 years old and I've been unemployed for over a year and frankly I find it disgusting.

im sorry to say it, but it needs to be said

with your outlook on employment you will remain unemployed for much longer

welcome to boards.ie :cool:

Taxipete29 · 12-03-2010 2:34pm

You may find it interesting that Labour are currently seeking to hire two people under this scheme.

munstergirl · 12-03-2010 2:41pm

There is a big thread on work & jobs forum.
I think no harm getting work experience for 6 weeks,did it myself many years ago on fas course,
9 months is just giving employers workers for free.
Why pay someone to do a job when you can hire someone for free.
Why is it legal?
I don't see it helping unemployment at all.

ThomasCreeby · 12-03-2010 2:55pm

ei.sdraob wrote: »

im sorry to say it, but it needs to be said

with your outlook on employment you will remain unemployed for much longer

welcome to boards.ie :cool:

Yeah, cheers for your unfunny and unhelpful comment "ei.sdraob" . Ive actually finished college and had to spend a year abroad working before I came back here in hope of finding a suitable position. What a mug I was to think there was any chance of that happening!
I'd be interested to meet anyone in the developed world who doesnt find cheap labour "disgusting", most of the programs offered on the FAS website are a minimum of 9 months long, thats not an unpaid internship with the prospect of future employment, its making people work a 40 hour week for their dole with no promise of future employment.

MaceFace · 12-03-2010 3:00pm

I agree - it is not a good idea.
It is wrong for a private business to make use of free labour to enrich themselves.

I have thought previously about hiring someone through this channel just because we can't afford to hire anyone but I find it morally wrong to expect someone to work for 6 months for free.

Instead the companies should just hire the people for a much lower wage (say 100 quid a week).

ei.sdraob · 12-03-2010 3:01pm

ThomasCreeby wrote: »

Yeah, cheers for your unfunny and unhelpful comment "ei.sdraob" . Ive actually finished college and had to spend a year abroad working before I came back here in hope of finding a suitable position. What a mug I was to think there was any chance of that happening!
I'd be interested to meet anyone in the developed world who doesnt find cheap labour "disgusting", most of the programs offered on the FAS website are a minimum of 9 months long, thats not an unpaid internship with the prospect of future employment, its making people work a 40 hour week for their dole with no promise of future employment.

if you don't like it, don't take it, what's the problem?

and yes you were/are naive thinking that a job will and should be handed to your on a platter

time will change your mind

ThomasCreeby · 12-03-2010 3:06pm

MaceFace wrote: »

I agree - it is not a good idea.
It is wrong for a private business to make use of free labour to enrich themselves.

I have thought previously about hiring someone through this channel just because we can't afford to hire anyone but I find it morally wrong to expect someone to work for 6 months for free.

Instead the companies should just hire the people for a much lower wage (say 100 quid a week).

Exactly Maceface, they dont need to pay people even a full wage but their needs to be reasonable consideration given to someone who comes to work every morning and puts in their hours, where's the incentive if someone isnt doing the same is ending up with the exact same amount of money at the end of the week, not only that but there are also things like travel and food expenses that I have yet to find a company willing to compensate for.

hobochris · 12-03-2010 3:07pm

MaceFace wrote: »

Instead the companies should just hire the people for a much lower wage (say 100 quid a week).

That would be a bitch to live on until the cost of living balanced.

ThomasCreeby · 12-03-2010 3:11pm

ei.sdraob wrote: »

if you don't like it, don't take it, what's the problem?

and yes you were/are naive thinking that a job will and should be handed to your on a platter

time will change your mind

dude, are you actually being serious? or are you just some shut-in on here to make some lame attempts at trolling?
because im guessing you dont know anything about the WPP scheme judging from that comment. but thanks for "schooling" me on how naive i was being - suggestion noted.

The_Honeybadger · 12-03-2010 3:13pm

ThomasCreeby wrote: »

Yeah, cheers for your unfunny and unhelpful comment "ei.sdraob" . Ive actually finished college and had to spend a year abroad working before I came back here in hope of finding a suitable position. What a mug I was to think there was any chance of that happening!
I'd be interested to meet anyone in the developed world who doesnt find cheap labour "disgusting", most of the programs offered on the FAS website are a minimum of 9 months long, thats not an unpaid internship with the prospect of future employment, its making people work a 40 hour week for their dole with no promise of future employment.

To be fair anything less than nine months is worthless in terms of your CV, this is not transition year in school. This program is well intentioned but employers really should be making a contribution, even 100 euro a week would be an incentive for people to take it up. It will give you experience to carry into your next job which will leave you in a stronger position if we have a recovery and companies start to hire again, that is certainly better than spending nine months on the dole IMO. Can you claim rent supplement while on this programn I wonder? that would soften the blow a bit.

EDIT: Think you are being a little harsh on ei.sdraob, he was only saying that nobody should expect a job to be waiting for them because they have a third level degree, you are unlucky in that you graduated into a jobs market with no jobs, getting experience is now your no 1 aim, i wouldn't rule out the WPP unless you have a reasonable prospect of securing employment within the short term

Zamboni · 12-03-2010 3:15pm

If I was 24 and lost my job, I'd be out of this country quicker than you can say FAS.

ei.sdraob · 12-03-2010 3:17pm

ThomasCreeby wrote: »

dude, are you actually being serious? or are you just some shut-in on here to make some lame attempts at trolling?
because im guessing you dont know anything about the WPP scheme judging from that comment. but thanks for "schooling" me on how naive i was being - suggestion noted.

yes im deadly serious, the reality is that this country is ****ed
whether you, i, everyone likes it or not

live with it and get used to it, you grew up knowing nothing but a booming economy so some things might come as a shock to you

that work placement programme is better than no work placement programme
and getting the dole is better than not getting the dole

ThomasCreeby · 12-03-2010 3:23pm

ei.sdraob wrote: »

yes im deadly serious, the reality is that this country is ****ed
whether you, i, everyone likes it or not

live with it and get used to it, you grew up knowing nothing but a booming economy so some things might come as a shock to you

that work placement programme is better than no work placement programme
and getting the dole is better than not getting the dole

Thank you for yet another inspiring and insightful gem of wisdom.

ei.sdraob · 12-03-2010 3:28pm

ThomasCreeby wrote: »

Thank you for yet another inspiring and insightful gem of wisdom.

What you want me to say? What did you want to hear by starting this thread?? Here goes so:

The government will create thousands of jobs and everything will be booming again and we can all get back to selling houses to one another

ThomasCreeby · 12-03-2010 3:29pm

I'll refer you to my previous post...

MaceFace · 12-03-2010 3:37pm

hobochris wrote: »

That would be a bitch to live on until the cost of living balanced.

True, but it will either result in people applying and getting the job, or it will result in the employer having to raise the salary for the position.

Either way, unless an employer is going to pony up for something that will help him get richer, they should be avoided.

Reminds me of the Seinfield episode when Kramer gets an intern

Liam Byrne · 12-03-2010 4:55pm

MaceFace wrote: »

I find it morally wrong to expect someone to work for 6 months for free.

How are they working "for free" ?

I think it's more morally wrong to expect hard-pushed people barely breaking even to pay higher taxes so that people can be paid "for doing nothing".

Yes, it needs to be handled better, but if I was doing nothing and had to get dole, I'd have no problem working for it.

Aside from the cash and the social aspect of it, it would be experience and less soul-destroying, and (again if it were done right) would could also help a community.

Whether it's a good idea to work for commercial companies trying to make a massive profit is another story, but even when it's proposed for non-commercial community schemes someone always says "oh, that's stopping companies from a business opportunity".

The bottom line is that no-one is entitled to something for absolutely nothing; and if the powers-that-be can balance that properly, people should be glad of what they can get, and should be prepared to do something in return.

12-03-2010 5:52pm

ei.sdraob wrote: »

im sorry to say it, but it needs to be said

with your outlook on employment you will remain unemployed for much longer

welcome to boards.ie :cool:

Its simply more state interference in the correction, propping up businesses by paying for employees only prolongs the necessary correction that recessions bring.

It is disgusting by the way. Its less than minimum wage - why didnt they get rid of the minimum wage? Why didnt they reduce the dole across the board and those who take up the WPP1 scheme get paid more as an incentive to work.

Anyone working under this scheme will feel undervalued when they work alongside people who are paid in full.

Quite simply its damn hard to make ends meet when your on the dole and paying for transport to and from work. Its merely a govt incentive for the young to emigrate

12-03-2010 5:56pm

Liam Byrne wrote: »

How are they working "for free" ?

I think it's more morally wrong to expect hard-pushed people barely breaking even to pay higher taxes so that people can be paid "for doing nothing".

Yes, it needs to be handled better, but if I was doing nothing and had to get dole, I'd have no problem working for it.

Aside from the cash and the social aspect of it, it would be experience and less soul-destroying, and (again if it were done right) would could also help a community.

Whether it's a good idea to work for commercial companies trying to make a massive profit is another story, but even when it's proposed for non-commercial community schemes someone always says "oh, that's stopping companies from a business opportunity".

Its all well and good in theory but when you dont reduce the minimum wage or the dole in general when introducing a scheme like this it becomes worthless. It does nothing to combat the real issues regarding the problems doing business here in Ireland - companies who leave Ireland cite a few main reasons for doing so:
Wage Costs
Rent Costs
Insurance and Electricity costs

This scheme is a temporary 9 month scheme and does not combat wage costs unless you want the entire work force replaced by WPP1 workers.

Liam Byrne wrote: »

The bottom line is that no-one is entitled to something for absolutely nothing; and if the powers-that-be can balance that properly, people should be glad of what they can get, and should be prepared to do something in return.

You write "no one is entitled to something for absolutely nothing" so why is it that employers are entitled to employees for free? Then you write "and should be prepared to do something in return" - why cant the employers do something in return for the free workers they get?

Ive paid my Pay Related Social INSURANCE any dole I ever claim is my money. Thank God Ive never had to but scheme is a joke.

12-03-2010 6:01pm

ei.sdraob wrote: »

yes im deadly serious, the reality is that this country is ****ed
whether you, i, everyone likes it or not

live with it and get used to it, you grew up knowing nothing but a booming economy so some things might come as a shock to you

that work placement programme is better than no work placement programme
and getting the dole is better than not getting the dole

It is ****ed and having our government pay private sector wages is insanity. Its a negative externality and employers using the WPP1 scheme become free riders - the goddamn very least the govt could do is make employers pay enough to match the minimum wage or pay something FFS

Liam Byrne · 12-03-2010 6:30pm

Deleted User wrote: »

the goddamn very least the govt could do is make employers pay enough to match the minimum wage or pay something FFS

Yes, I would agree with this part of it. At the very least the difference between the dole and the minimum wages would cover necessities like the cost of transport to and from work which wouldn't otherwise be incurred.

Of course, ideally the "minimum wage" wouldn't be required, in terms of companies valuing employees and the cost of living (surviving?) in this country being reasonable and fair.

fontanalis · 12-03-2010 6:42pm

ThomasCreeby wrote: »

Thank you for yet another inspiring and insightful gem of wisdom.

It's sad but true. The "boom" was all "fur coat and no knickers", unless outside companies come to irleand or home grown companies that can export grow ireland is f***ed.
With regards to the scheme if it's companies that are getting employees for very cheap where they are filling a gap they would otherwise have to pay then fair enough but some companies might not be bale to afford permanent staff (it can happen) and having someone come in for cheap can be beneficial to both parties. Sometimes in life you have to do things you don't like.

donkey balls · 12-03-2010 6:45pm

there has been a discusion over on the work&jobs section i came accross employers advertising for wpp1/2 now this scheme is for people that have NO work experience in their field.
one advert stated that an employee must be over 25 for insurance purpose,have at least 5 years experience and the list goes on these employers(which i know off)are looking for free labour absolute disgrace:mad:

12-03-2010 6:53pm

In order to be eligible, don't the companies need to have X amount of employees and not have had any redundancies in the last x amount of months? (Not sure of the numbers?)

Doesn't sound like the kind of program intended to help small businesses in the first place.

cee_jay · 13-03-2010 9:25am

A lot of employers are actually giving people on this cash in hand at the end of the week - there is nothing in the rules that stop this. I know of a guy who worked for a certain company every holiday period from college for the past 4 years. He has now graduated and is being hired on this scheme. The scheme states it is a way for an employer to hire someone and get to know them - how does he meet that?

It is basically a scheme that allows the government to say that the live register has fallen by whatever amount in an attempt to make themselves look better.

danman · 13-03-2010 10:43am

I don't know what your getting worked up about OP.

I worked on a similar scheme at the start of the '90's.
I worked for a company for 12 months.

The experience I gains has stood me well for the past 20 years in full time employment.
I was able to use the experience I gained to move on to a better position, and I've never regreted doing it.

If you apply for a job, not having any relevant experience, do you expect an employer to be excited about the prospect of employing you?
Should they be priviliged to have such a worthy candidate?

Or maybe they will just be realistic and give the job to a candidate that got off their arse and made an effert to gain experience in the workplace.

As a previous poster said, the Celtic Tiger breed a new type of undergraduate.
They expect a job to fall into their laps.

Time for a reality check OP.

You get nothing in this life for nothing. It takes hard work, effort and sacrifice.

Get yourself on one of these schemes and start being proactive instead of coming onto a forum and complaining about "Slave Labour"

danman · 13-03-2010 12:02pm

I'll give you an even better example shall I.

A good friend finished his degree and post grad around the same time as me.
He realised that he had no real time experience, so he organised a placement with a financial company in Belfast.

He spent 12 months there with only his dole.

He then went to New York, were he's worked on Wall Street ever since.
He has always maintained that the real world experience he got in Belfast laid the foundation for the rest of his career.

There is much less of a "Can Do" attitude nowadays, more of a "Give It To Me" attitdue.

bmccaff · 14-03-2010 10:32pm

This is prime example below as to how this is abused in my area.

http://jobbank.fas.ie/servlet/Watis?SESS=10575_18&SERVICE=CRITERIUMBROWSE&TEMPLATE=WWW_JS_VAC_CRITERIUM_BROWSE.HTM&ROW=23&BACK=TEMPLATE%3DWWW_JS_VAC_CRITERIUM_OVERVIEW.HTM

After 9 months how would this help any college graduate with their future career.
This so called experience could be learned in one week.
This is keeping one more unskilled worker or school leaver out of work and is a disgrace that the government supports this.

Only person that gains here is shop owner

MaceFace · 15-03-2010 9:36am

danman wrote: »

I don't know what your getting worked up about OP.

I worked on a similar scheme at the start of the '90's.
I worked for a company for 12 months.

The experience I gains has stood me well for the past 20 years in full time employment.
I was able to use the experience I gained to move on to a better position, and I've never regreted doing it.

If you apply for a job, not having any relevant experience, do you expect an employer to be excited about the prospect of employing you?
Should they be priviliged to have such a worthy candidate?

No, I would not expect an employer to hire me if I had no relevant experience.

danman wrote: »

Or maybe they will just be realistic and give the job to a candidate that got off their arse and made an effert to gain experience in the workplace.

If an employer really is not contributing one penny to an employee and that employee would be financially better off sitting at home, then what confidence does the employer have that the person will continue to come to work?

danman wrote: »

As a previous poster said, the Celtic Tiger breed a new type of undergraduate.
They expect a job to fall into their laps.

Time for a reality check OP.

You get nothing in this life for nothing. It takes hard work, effort and sacrifice.

Get yourself on one of these schemes and start being proactive instead of coming onto a forum and complaining about "Slave Labour"

Well, according to this scheme, employers get an employee working for them for nothing.

And besides, I was around before the Celtic Tiger and I don't agree with the idea of an employer getting a person to work for them for free.

I really don't like the whole "Celtic Tiger generation" argument because it is generally spewed out by people who use it to benefit themselves (there was Bill Cullen complaining that the Celtic Tiger generation wanted the government to provide jobs for them but somehow didn't see any problem with him wanting the government to provide a bailout for his company).

If an employer needs to rely on free labour, they seriously need to look again at their business.

danman · 15-03-2010 11:05am

I truely do feel sorry for you Maceface, if this is the attitude you want to take.

Any employer should be grateful to have an employee with your attitude.
I really cannot understand why they haven't snapped you up already.

God help Ireland, if all employers continue to act like this.
Imagine, wanting employees that that are self motivated rather than
ones that think they deserve employment handed to them.

To be honest, if I was an employer, I'd use a similar scheme as you gave above to weed out those that are not motivated and welcome those that are making an effort.

Did you read the requirement? A graduate? For working on tills?

Why do you think they might need a graduate to work on tills?

Don't bother answering with a slave labour post, because if you don't see what's infront of your eyes, you will notget employment untill another boom occurs and jobs are simply handed out.

Forgive me if I seem harsh, but somtimes reality checks are needed in this life.

MonkeyBone · 15-03-2010 2:12pm

I have read all the posts here and everyone has a valid point. With regards to ThomasCreeby's original post I can sincerely empathize. I have spent the last 6 years working hard in college and I have gained a lot of work experience during that time. I am 25, I was abroad in Manchester working and came back to Ireland after a bereavement in my family and decided to stay. I spent 6 months trying to find a job and finally went to FAS to get some help. They were useless to say the least and I eventually did a work placement programme that had me working like a slave, taking crap and not getting paid for it. This was a very reputable company but as they were seen as doing me a favour in giving me work experience they clearly abused their position.

Now I am at a consultant level with regards to my education and I got job offers in the UK and I took the one in Manchester but this country is gone to hell at the moment. The WPP1 is a a flawed system. I have seen two graduate programmes pulled and now the jobs they were offering are on the IBEC gradlink site looking for graduates to work for nothing for 12 months. I had made significant progress in these interviews and then they pull them to make use of the Governments genius idea of a Work Placement Programme that has graduates working for nothing. I understand ei.sdraob point of view but this is a ridiculous situation that FAS seem to think is a great idea.

I am sorry this post is so long but if I may make one more point. When I went to FAS and spoke to the work placement officer, she recommended these WPP1 programmes and seemed to think that it would solve all our (graduates) problems. When I pointed out to her that new graduates would be coming out in the tens of thousands this year she seemed to lose her mert. Graduates from last year will be competing with new graduates in a time when there is no jobs. I just think is is ridiculous that we will be competing over jobs that do not pay. It isn't just ironic, it's tragic and that sums up this country at the moment ( and for the next 3 years at least)!

dogbert27 · 15-03-2010 4:29pm

MonkeyBone wrote: »

Graduates from last year will be competing with new graduates in a time when there is no jobs. I just think is is ridiculous that we will be competing over jobs that do not pay. It isn't just ironic, it's tragic and that sums up this country at the moment ( and for the next 3 years at least)!

I think this is the reason Eddie Hobbs advises all new graduates to emigrate to Canada or Australia.

15-03-2010 5:08pm

ThomasCreeby wrote: »

In a time of deep recession I am absolutely baffled how the government can sponsor a program where by companies are paid to take on new staff, who can then work for said companies for periods of up to 12 months while receiving only their dole as compensation for working the guts of a 40 hour week.

Awful lot of FUD there. Companies are not paid to take on staff. The period of employment is 9 months, not 12. And the dole is not their only compensation, they also get invaluable experience

cAr0l wrote: »

It is basically a scheme that allows the government to say that the live register has fallen by whatever amount in an attempt to make themselves look better.

No it's not, for one very simple reason: Participants are still on the live register.

Deleted User wrote: »

In order to be eligible, don't the companies need to have X amount of employees and not have had any redundancies in the last x amount of months? (Not sure of the numbers?)

Doesn't sound like the kind of program intended to help small businesses in the first place.

The number of placements a company can offer are restricted to 10% (rounded up) of their total wokforce, to a maximum of 25 placements. There are a couple of other conditions, designed to prevent companies replacing existing employees with WPP participants:

The business currently has no vacancies in the area of activity in which the placement is offered
The placement will not be provided to displace an existing employee
i)The business has not made any person redundant in the last three months OR ii) There have been redundancies in the last three months but there has been no direct displacement of an employee, and the level of redundancies in the last three months is less than 5% of the workforce.

I fail to see why people have a problem with positions being offered that will give no useful experience. Can someone tell me why a participant would work as a shop assistant for free? What would be the point? The participant has nothing to gain from doing it, and it's completely their choice, so why would they do it? For jobs that actually offer experience, the company is essentially paying you with experience, which to a graduate (especially in this economy) is worth a huge amount

danman · 15-03-2010 5:23pm

Good employment experience is priceless.

If anyone doesn't think so.....
Good luck with your careers.

WalterMitty · 15-03-2010 5:42pm

a lot of the work is basic admin stuff. You'd be getting a yearly figure of around 10k from social welfare for doing that while low level clerical workers in public sector doing same /similar work are striking over getting 30+k for them job. They should be gratefull for their jobs. Always happens in reccesions, those with jobs try to keep as much of their pay and conditions as possible even though highly qualified people are sitting on the dole and willing to do the highly paid jobs of those in emplyment, and in particular public sector emplyment.

RichardAnd · 18-03-2010 3:04pm

Doing an un-paid internship is a well established path to a better life and has been for years in the united states. However, the WPP is a typically short sighed effort from the Irish government that was probably spawned in an effort to win votes by attempting to do something to get people into work.

The problem with it is that it gives employers an opportunity to hire people for free. So, let's say a company needs an accountant, well why not get one from the WPP and avoid forking out a salary. Some employers have the honesty not to do this but, sadly, this is Ireland and something like the WPP is just going to be abused, which it already is. In effect, the WPP will stop jobs being created as what would have been a paying job instead becomes a FAS WPP placement.

Now I'll be the first to say this, most graduates know absolutely nothing about what they have a degree in and really, they need experience. But it's not them I worry for, it's guys who have lost their jobs who now can't find another. This recession is nothing compared to what our grandparents went through but a man with two kids, no job and a Celtic Tiger mortgage to pay is still in big trouble.

In other nations, offering unpaid work is illegal but for a few exceptions. However, this is Ireland after all and forethought seems to be just another of those things we traded for the blight that was the boom.

18-03-2010 3:36pm

RichardAnd wrote: »

The problem with it is that it gives employers an opportunity to hire people for free. So, let's say a company needs an accountant, well why not get one from the WPP and avoid forking out a salary.

How is that different to internships in other countries? They won't get an accountant, they'll get a graduate who needs to be trained

MonkeyBone · 18-03-2010 3:51pm

RichardAnd wrote: »

Doing an un-paid internship is a well established path to a better life and has been for years in the united states. However, the WPP is a typically short sighed effort from the Irish government that was probably spawned in an effort to win votes by attempting to do something to get people into work.

The problem with it is that it gives employers an opportunity to hire people for free. So, let's say a company needs an accountant, well why not get one from the WPP and avoid forking out a salary. Some employers have the honesty not to do this but, sadly, this is Ireland and something like the WPP is just going to be abused, which it already is. In effect, the WPP will stop jobs being created as what would have been a paying job instead becomes a FAS WPP placement.

Now I'll be the first to say this, most graduates know absolutely nothing about what they have a degree in and really, they need experience. But it's not them I worry for, it's guys who have lost their jobs who now can't find another. This recession is nothing compared to what our grandparents went through but a man with two kids, no job and a Celtic Tiger mortgage to pay is still in big trouble.

In other nations, offering unpaid work is illegal but for a few exceptions. However, this is Ireland after all and forethought seems to be just another of those things we traded for the blight that was the boom.

Words of pure wisdom for sure! I fall under the catagory of a recent graduate (2009) and when I started I quickly learned that I didn't know much. I worked very hard during my WPP1 to be a productive member of the company and spent many a late night studying new technologies, coming in extra early and staying late. I viewed it as the best opportunity for me during a recession. The generic paragraph reference I received was a kick in the teeth though. Having said that , I don't have the stress of a mortage but the burden of a far smaller student loan to deal with, which is minor in comparison. All I really had to manage is my rent and the travel expenses which lefts me with very little from the job seekers allowance. I am quite annoyed by the government and these programmes run by FAS. I see so many people I know struggling to find a job or leaving the country and I just wish things would get better. My whinging pales in comparison and puts things into perspective when I think of what thousands of others have to deal with.

Having said that, my opinion of the WPP1 will not change and I think it is a shabbles at the moment.

18-03-2010 4:18pm

MonkeyBone wrote: »

Having said that, my opinion of the WPP1 will not change and I think it is a shabbles at the moment.

Why? You said yourself that you learned a lot while doing it, and you now have an extra position on your CV. 'Generic' references are very common from many companies across all industries. It's up to you to explain to a new company what you did and learned in your placemen, not your former company

MonkeyBone · 18-03-2010 5:03pm

28064212 wrote: »

Why? You said yourself that you learned a lot while doing it, and you now have an extra position on your CV. 'Generic' references are very common from many companies across all industries. It's up to you to explain to a new company what you did and learned in your placemen, not your former company

A valid point, however in a previous post on this thread I explained why. But thank you for pointing that out. Ever since joining boards.ie I am getting a better sense of perspective to my current situation as a graduate.

RichardAnd · 18-03-2010 6:11pm

28064212 wrote: »

How is that different to internships in other countries? They won't get an accountant, they'll get a graduate who needs to be trained

What I said there was a bit misleading. What I meant to get across was that a company who had a job for an accountant that would have put another person in work and have them paying tax would instead be lost because the said company can get someone for free from FAS. This, of course, keeps another person on the dole for another 6-12 months.

18-03-2010 6:35pm

RichardAnd wrote: »

What I said there was a bit misleading. What I meant to get across was that a company who had a job for an accountant that would have put another person in work and have them paying tax would instead be lost because the said company can get someone for free from FAS. This, of course, keeps another person on the dole for another 6-12 months.

Yes, but the person on the WPP gets the experience, thereby helping them. The company is cutting corners by getting a completely untrained graduate. There's no guarantee they would have hired an experienced accountant if they didn't have the WPP option. I very much doubt there are companies out there who think "We need to hire an accountant for this position... actually, lets just get someone with no experience instead, they can handle it just as well"

RichardAnd · 18-03-2010 7:52pm

28064212 wrote: »

Yes, but the person on the WPP gets the experience, thereby helping them. The company is cutting corners by getting a completely untrained graduate. There's no guarantee they would have hired an experienced accountant if they didn't have the WPP option. I very much doubt there are companies out there who think "We need to hire an accountant for this position... actually, lets just get someone with no experience instead, they can handle it just as well"

Yes, if they need an accountant but I was using that simply as an example, albeit, not a very good one. What I mean is that a company that can afford to hire someone and pay them will not because FAS have created a loophole where a company can fill a job and save themselves some money.

Granted, for "skilled jobs", this is less likely but the fact is, this WPP has created a means to facilitate this kind of dishonest behaviour. Experience is all well and good but the fundamental fact of life is that we don't work for the sake of it; we work so that we may live and get through life easier than would otherwise be possible.

I just can't see the WPP being helpful in the long run. There may be good stories to come out of it but as someone else in this thread has already pointed out, paying jobs were removed and replaced with WPP offers. The fact that this is state endorsed is, to me, simply indicative of a much larger problem.

Floppybits · 19-03-2010 1:52pm

This WPP scheme is nothing new. The same scheme existed in 1995. I did a face course probably around 94 and did 2 months work experience as part of the course in France. I guess I was lucky with that course. When I came back I got a job with a good wage doing data entry for a company, however it wasnt what I wanted to do. I got a call from Fas saying that there was a company where I could do kind of what I wanted but I would only get the Fas wage in that job. I took it much to the annoyance of my parents because I was looking at nearly a €200 drop in wages. I spent 9 months in that job and I have not looked back since.

So folks this is nothing new, sometimes you have to take a step back to go forwards as they say. Before you ask I was 23 at the time so I see nothing wrong with this scheme. Yes some employers are going to abuse it but it is up to people who get on it to make the most of it and to keep their eyes and ears open for other job opertunities. Which would you rather say going into and interview, if the interviewee asks you what have you been doing since you last job, Answer A: Ive been on the dole or Answer B, well I was on WPP scheme with company x, too keep my skills up to date and to gain work experience.

I know which I would rather say. I think some people need to take their noses out of the air and stop expecting to get the big job with the big wage, the thing is that you have to work now for a job and if that means going out on a WPP scheme then do it. I will work for you in the long run.

billybigunz · 19-03-2010 10:22pm

I have to argue against the fallacy that using this scheme for experience will make it somebody more likely to gain employment.

The every xistance of this scheme and the willingness of people to get experience is removing jobs from the country. Jobs that could easily be funded by companies at graduate level are now being replaced with WPP schemes. This is causing unemployment and whilst a person might think they are more unemployable with their experience, the reality is that because of their work placement they are actually less likely to get a job in this country.

The recession is bad enough for jobs but this is making things hugely worse as it is undermining the whole concept of paid employment. Please don't be selfish and do not participate in a wpp.

stepbar · 19-03-2010 11:49pm

It's a bit of a joke of a program. I recently seen a local supermarket advertising for people to stack shelves. I really don't think that was the idea in mind when the Government devised the program.

97i9y3941 · 20-03-2010 12:03am

its an sham and a legit way of exploiting workers,i couldn't give two hoots if a person is gaining experience,its just a legit way of avoiding to pay wages,the b#stard who thought of this program should be shot..

donkey balls · 20-03-2010 12:14am

go to the FAS website and click on clerical jobs every 2nd one seems to be a wpp scheme, i reported certain jobs adverts to FAS and they took them down only for the job to appear again a few weeks later:rolleyes:

calamity cockup has a lot to answer for then again i dont think she has ever had a job outside the Dail.

FAS Work Placement Program

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