FAQ: Analogue, DTT, Aerials

watty · 27-11-2010 3:14pm

BostonB wrote: »

Are there any cheap DTT Set stop boxes that would work just for DTT on the old CRT TV. Seems a shame to replace a decent CRT to get a tuner.

ALL Saorview/"Freeview HD" do if you have SCART. Even down converts the HD.

If you only have RF, then you need to go via SCART in on a VHS, select monitor AV on VHS and tune to VHS channel on TV.

Channel change then on the DVB-T or DVB-T2 MPEG4 set-box.

BostonB · 28-11-2010 12:15am

Ah, ok. see what you mean.

Deedsie · 03-12-2010 9:09am

http://us.cdn2.123rf.com/168nwm/margojh/margojh0708/margojh070800057.jpg

We have an old aerial like the one above on my house. Would that be any good for receiving saorview? What kind of cables fittings do you use for these aerials? Would UPC cabling be any good?

Tom Slick · 03-12-2010 11:39am

That's a VHF aerial, so no use for Saorview. Generally speaking, cable with braid and foil shield is used (copper wire, braid & shield is best).
Don't know what UPC use.

watty · 03-12-2010 3:54pm

UPC use an "RG6".
Except for the Trunk which resembles a young water main.

Quackhart · 10-12-2010 3:11pm

Having read through a lot of the excellent advice and details and tech busting that abounds here I've reached the conclusion that the easiest way to avail of DTT is picking up a TV that has an MPEG4 tuner. I'm between one of the Sony Bravia's or Phillips (32" or 37") listed on the TV's with MPEG4 decoder thread myself.

This handily (from what I understand) negates the need for an STB etc. Question is though, what about the recording side of it? The Argus and one or two others take an external HDD, surely (And sorry for calling you surely by the way) it would be easier to pick up a DVD / HDD recorder from Samsung / LG etc and avoid the unneccessary extra outlay for a larger box just for it's PVR capabilities?

Or am I missing it completely?

BostonB · 10-12-2010 3:27pm

Dunno. Something like this?

http://www.electrotown.co.uk/buy/Humax-Freesat-HD-Recorder-FOXSATHDR

Humax FOXSATHDR - Freesat HD Recorder

Click to enlarge image
Satellite HD Digital Television Recorder
freesat HD and SD channel recording
Simultaneous viewing of one channel and recording another channel
Record 2 channels at the same time
Receive HDTV signals (MPEG-4 AVC/H.264 and MPEG-2)

fat-tony · 10-12-2010 3:35pm

I have one of those myself. Good for satellite only - no DTT.

BostonB · 10-12-2010 3:55pm

Though if it had MPEG-4 it would be ok?

fat-tony · 10-12-2010 4:01pm

BostonB wrote: »

Though if it had MPEG-4 it would be ok?

Yes it has MPEG-4, but it is a satellite receiver (for Freesat). It has no terrestrial (aerial) connection.

BostonB · 10-12-2010 4:04pm

Doh - are there any DVD/HD boxes with DTT ?

fat-tony · 10-12-2010 4:15pm

I can't point you at the exact thread, but I'm pretty sure I have seen posts that indicate most DVD recorders with digital tuners are MPEG-2 only. Humax do a terrestrial pvr - google "Humax T2 PVR", but it is terrestrial only and there's no guarantee that things like series link will work on it in the Saorview system. A lot of people are in the wait and see mode as regards PVR purchases. Otherwise you are into researching DTT & Sat combo boxes (there's a sticky!), but then again these boxes are compromises, vary hugely in quality and support.

watty · 10-12-2010 5:28pm

The only DTT DVD recorders are really not suitable. I don't know of any that do MPEG4 or HD reception.

Because DVDs are only meant to have MPEG2 on them, not meant to do HD at all. Also an HD movie on a 4.3G DVD is pushing it. DVD players that claim MPEG4 are not playing DVD videos, but PC files on DVD in xVid/DivX etc type formats. Not normally HD either.

BD (Blu Ray) recorders + Hard Drive is your only likely thing.

Saorview is MPEG4 AND HD, minimum.

The Tesco (£200) and Humax "Freeview HD" HDR / "Freeview+ HD" / HD Recorders do "work*" on Saorview (DVB-T2 is backward compatible to DVB-T). No idea if "series link" will work as we don't know how or if RTE NL will do it.

Unlike Analogue, Digital Tuner recorders do not encode. They simply record the data as it is. So playback is same as Live TV. Broadcast DVB formats don't match DVD formats (or BD either) as they are more flexible. So HDD (hard drive is prefered method). In "saving" from a HDD to a BDR (BluRay recordable) non-realtime fixup of errors and possibly (?) transcoding can be done.

(* possibly more problematic if you are receiving Freeview also. Also while it will do all the Audio & Video, MHEG5 text, there are likely subtle issues).

Digifriendly · 16-12-2010 7:18pm

Must be high pressure weather conditions but ROI DTT coming through loud and clear here in Moira, NI today with no breakup whatsoever.

dohertg5 · 24-12-2010 8:02pm

Hey, could anyone enlighten me as to what kind of aerial(s) this may be? We recently got a new tv (Samsung LE32C530) that is capable of receiving saorview but at the moment it is only picking up analogue signals. Are both of these aerials vhf (or is it just one aerial?). I'm confused!

ps. I'm in Fanad, Co. Donegal which I think is around 30km as the crow flies from the Holywell Hill transmitter.

Sam Russell · 24-12-2010 8:18pm

Both aerials are UHF, the one on the left is a broadband vertically polarised 'bow-tie' type. The other is a yagi type also vertically polarised, but looks highend, maybe C/D looks contract quality).

donegal11 · 25-12-2010 3:15am

Do you get a good tv3 on analogue now as that would be a good proxy for soarview as tv3 is only on that transmitter(HH) round northern donegal . also if both ariels are vertically polarised that could be the problem,while the transmitter in fanad is vertical the transmitter in holywell hill is horizontal(maybe your pointed at different transmitter). Depending on the expense it wouldn't be worth upgrading an aerial because in the short to medium term fanad will hopefully be upgraded.

Dubluc · 31-12-2010 4:24pm

Not sure if I'm on the right thread but trying to figure out a problem.

Trying to help a friend with a Samsung digital TV and they have good analogue TV reception on all four Irish channels via a 2 aerial combination which is outdoors and had an UHF aerial similar to the outdoor one in post #4 above. The aerials are also serving another TV which receives analogue only.

I've been interested in the DTT thing since I found out about it and have scanned for digital channels on their TV a number of times to no avail.

They are located in North Tipperary.

There is no digital reception on the TV on either an automatic or manual scan and the analogue channels are received always.

Unfortunately I don't know which transmitter it's pointed at. The aerial is pointed on a rough east west alignment and could be pointed at either Carlow or Limerick. I know the closest transmitter is on the Devil's Bit mountain but it's a booster for Co. Clare I've always been told.

watty · 31-12-2010 6:09pm

Not all Digital TVs are compatible.

BostonB · 31-12-2010 6:36pm

Whats the TV model number and does it have the right tuner?

Dubluc · 31-12-2010 8:30pm

Tis a Samsung LE32B450C4W and from what i can figure out on this and other threads that telly is compatible.

chelskifan · 04-01-2011 2:25pm

Hi All and Happy New Year.
Hope you can advise.
I have what I thougth was a 'fairly ok' RTE1/2/tv3 (no TG4) analogue signal in Swords using a W contract loft aerial(Horizntal and no amp) pointed at 3 Rock. RTE1 is the better of the three,with RTE 2 -2nd best and TV3(snowy/color/good sound).
I connected up a 20" Walker yesterday but digital signal is at zero. The analogue signal for RTE1 is about 80%, rte2/tv3 is only showing about 20%. I had planned to change to a C/D aerial either way but I thought that even with the W one I would have got some digital reception. I tried both an automatic scan and entered the frequencies manually but no joy. Is the W aerial just not suitable or am I maybe doing something wrong?? Cable run is direct (about 4 metres long) with no kinks or joins.

Thanks
Mike

lucernarian · 04-01-2011 2:44pm

That's very suprising. In the attic is the aerial pointing SSE and with no water tanks etc in the way? and are you located higher up in Swords or down in the likes of Applewood etc? Do you have any large obstacles between you and the horizon to your southeast? E.g. an apartment block across the road etc.

Have you made sure that the inner core and outer braid of the coaxial cable are not touching off each other at any stage? In the aerial itself, the braid should connect to one terminal and the coaxial copper core to another terminal and they mustn't touch. Otherwise the signal will be "shorted" and the signal severely reduced.

Sam Russell · 04-01-2011 3:16pm

The DTT signal from 3Rock is on Ch54, which is adjacent to TG4. If you are not getting TG4, you you might need a different wide-band aerial.

upsilon · 04-01-2011 4:29pm

Has anybody experience the Mheg5 service on the irish DTT? I've got a receiver WITHOUT MHEG5 and I get very slow EPG. Is there any "midwave" service currently provided?
is this equivalent to color buttons on bbc service?
thanks

chelskifan · 04-01-2011 4:43pm

To_be_confirmed wrote: »

That's very suprising. In the attic is the aerial pointing SSE and with no water tanks etc in the way? and are you located higher up in Swords or down in the likes of Applewood etc? Do you have any large obstacles between you and the horizon to your southeast? E.g. an apartment block across the road etc.

Have you made sure that the inner core and outer braid of the coaxial cable are not touching off each other at any stage? In the aerial itself, the braid should connect to one terminal and the coaxial copper core to another terminal and they mustn't touch. Otherwise the signal will be "shorted" and the signal severely reduced.

Hi TBC,
On the Forrest Rd but down low. Nothing but end-wall and some trees. Aerial
pointing SSE with good connections. have put in several dishes for family so
familiar with the connections (BUT.. thanks though for reminding me to check again). Sam's point though 'might' be more of an indicator. Will check connections again and replace aerial anyway.

lucernarian · 04-01-2011 5:18pm

chelskifan wrote: »

Hi TBC,
On the Forrest Rd but down low. Nothing but end-wall and some trees. Aerial
pointing SSE with good connections. have put in several dishes for family so
familiar with the connections (BUT.. thanks though for reminding me to check again). Sam's point though 'might' be more of an indicator. Will check connections again and replace aerial anyway.

If you can't even scan in new channels from Three Rock, a new aerial simply won't offer enough gain to give reliable breakup-free reception unless you get a massive yagi like a triax Unix 52 etc, and a preamp too if you used anything more than 4 metres.

I live in Louth and even then I can pick up Three rock through a gable wall in the attic on a contract aerial but there is some breakup in spots. I found wide variations in signal depending on where in the attic the aerial was, despite there being no obvious differences in location. Try moving the aerial around in the attic and test the signal that way. How is the aerial fastened in the attic currently?

chelskifan · 04-01-2011 6:00pm

TBC...It's lying across the rafters. I'm going to try an amplified indoor to see what result I get. There may well be something (break IN the cable ??) that I'm not aware of that's causing it. Will let you know in a day or so.:)

Sam Russell · 04-01-2011 6:19pm

If you have a small TV, go up in the attic and get the aerial giving a good signal to that on TG4 if it is not DTT enabled. Then try the same TV at the other end of the cable. There should be no difference. If there is, cable fault. If you can't get TG4, then get a wideband aerial like a log-periodic.

Good luck.

lucernarian · 04-01-2011 7:45pm

chelskifan wrote: »

TBC...It's lying across the rafters. I'm going to try an amplified indoor to see what result I get. There may well be something (break IN the cable ??) that I'm not aware of that's causing it. Will let you know in a day or so.:)

That's the problem. It's lying across the rafters. It needs to be suspended above the rafters and below the tiles/slates themselves. I found very significant drops in signal with both VHF and UHF aerials if they're lying on the ground. You can use string to suspend the aerial from some of the overhead joists/rafters and that should make a very big difference. Or you can get proper loft mounting kits which involve a small bracket being fixed to a wooden beam and the aerial is then bolted to the short pole. I can get Cairn hill here on just an indoor aerial but when I put the aerial lying down on the rafters I was barely able to get the channel list on the set top box.

What I use in the loft is a bracket for a satellite dish like http://cms.killercontent.net/media/ec/97866f60479448d0a4152c0023a6ace1satbracket.jpg which is fastened to one of the beams with 2 screws or bolts.

chelskifan · 05-01-2011 10:34am

Thanks Sam /TBC
I have a spare sat' bracket that I can mount on a rafter and fix the aerial aerial to. in order to increase signal. Will also try a portable in the attic to check best position and confirm curent cable is ok.. Btw,tried a friend's amplified indoor aerial last night (he gets perfect reception with it) and had to hold it at ceiling height and by the window before I got reception of the 6 stns. May yet be a localised 'black spot' where I am but will try everything else first.

chelskifan · 06-01-2011 1:54pm

Hi Sam / TBC,
I suspended the aerial from the beam lat night and the analogue signal jumped
significantly. Btw, noticed that it's not group W but group A (red cap)-another 'senior moment 'on my part. Unfortunately, didn't get to retune to
check what effect it had on the digital signal as I was called away.

Given that it's not wide band at all but band A and outside the channel bandwidth would I now be better replacing it for the correct one (C/D) ?
Would the 'gain' be worth it ?

watty · 06-01-2011 3:53pm

Group A aerials are not bad on Group B and drop slowly on Group C/D
Aerials higher group than A are all bad at lower groups.
Most Group W aerials are really B/C with usable but lower group D and poor Group A.

Given that it's not wide band at all but band A and outside the channel bandwidth would I now be better replacing it for the correct one (C/D) ?
Would the 'gain' be worth it ?

It reduces interference to have correct group. It likely would be worth it seeing as you are Group C/D (if you have decent Group B transmitter a Group A could be OK).

chelskifan · 06-01-2011 4:11pm

Thanks Watty, will replace with correct C/D aerial as it can only help reception rather than hinder it.

lucernarian · 06-01-2011 4:24pm

What's the digital signal strength like now after properly mounting the aerial?

STB · 06-01-2011 4:28pm

chelskifan wrote: »

Thanks Watty, will replace with correct C/D aerial as it can only help reception rather than hinder it.

And when you do point it towards Clermont Carn (Channel 53) which will be better line of sight along the coast than three rock. You may also pick up Kilkeel Freeview from NI when they come on end of 2012/early 13.

chelskifan · 06-01-2011 5:47pm

STB..Will check digital signal this evening (keeping in mind it's an A group aerial. Will be a good exercise to know what difference lifting it actually made.
Sam....Once I replace the A with a C/D (tomorrow evening ) I'll point it at Cairn Hill. As you say it's a better line of sight.

EDIT:
TBC....Will check digital signal this evening (keeping in mind it's an A group aerial).. Will be a good exercise to know what difference lifting it actually made.

STB.....Once I replace the A with a C/D (tomorrow evening ) I'll point it at Cairn Hill. As you say it's a better line of sight. Noticed last night that the 'split' within the general locality seems to be 70/30 in favour of Cairn Hill rather than 3 Rock.

lucernarian · 06-01-2011 5:49pm

STB wrote: »

And when you do point it towards Clermont Carn (Channel 53) which will be better line of sight along the coast than three rock. You may also pick up Kilkeel Freeview from NI when they come on end of 2012/early 13.

I don't think that's true. No one south of the Carlingford Penninsula has a hope of picking Kilkeel freeview or otherwise with a loft aerial except perhaps the likes of parts of Clogherhead in Co. Louth and then with a massive aerial. Furthermore, Clermont Carn is heavily restricted currently and Three Rock is as strong as Clermont Carn even in many parts of Drogheda as a result! I estimate that the increase in power at DSO would still mean that only parts of Swords and northwards, beyond Rush, would be better off receiving from Clermont Carn. The SFN with Kippure also leans in favour of reception from Three Rock.

In short it would be madness to use Clermont Carn instead of Three Rock for anywhere but one or two patches at the very north of Swords. Definitely not Forrest road.

chelskifan · 09-01-2011 11:26pm

Hi All, sorry for not getting back before now with an update.
Suspended the group A from a beam and the analohue reception increased about 30% but no digital signal. Replaced the group A with a C/D (pointed at 3 Rock) and immeditaly got digital reception of all tv/radio stns.Signal strength
across all is about 20% with quality as follows:
RTE1 -20% (does flucuate upto 50% initially but drops back down)
RTE2 -20% " " " " " " " " "
TV3 - 50%
TG4 -30%
RTEN -30%
3E - 50% (down to 10% during the day)
On-screen PQ is still VERY watchable though.
Will also point to Clairmont to see what the reception is like from there as several of the group A's I've seen locally pointed in this direction had no masthead so just maybe in this localised spot reception 'might' be better..who knows.. Many thanks to all for your comments/contributions to date.

Midnight Rider · 20-01-2011 6:26pm

Some of the links in the original post are dead.

I was actually searching around to find out exactly what kind of aerial is necessary to receive Irish terrestrial television, and after checking out a bunch of replies and other sites I'm still as confused as ever.

But, I'm presuming that a 10db UHF loft aerial is suitable for the Dublin area?

watty · 20-01-2011 7:18pm

yes.

Three Rock UHF

Midnight Rider · 20-01-2011 7:38pm

watty wrote: »

yes.

Three Rock UHF

Thanks watty, that's what I was thinking.

I was on RTE's site too, I found it wasn't all that helpful.

watty · 20-01-2011 8:05pm

Try
http://www.saortv.info/terrestrial-saorview/transmitters/
and
http://www.techtir.ie/tv-radio/Irish-DTT-Sites

I've been in contact with RTE and RTENL. They have promised more info.

slave1 · 10-02-2011 9:32am

Hi all, reasonably okay on satellite reception (Freesat distributed to 3 TVs, FTA on another 2) but pretty lost on terrestrial broadcasts.
When I purchased my house in '98 there was a huge ariel attached to the chimney which I took down during extension as a new hipped roof made future access dangerous, I relied on Chorus then Sky for RTE etc because the house must be located in some sort of broadcast 'shadow', hence the pre-existing ariel setup, I have tried cheap "rabbit-ears" in the past and nothing comes up on any TV. I am currently without RTE etc.
Now the digital era beckons so I'd like advise on what attic ariel I should seek to see whether I can pick up Saorview.
I'd prefer an Argos purchase because then I can bring back for an immediate refund if I can't pick up any signal, if I need a stronger ariel at least the Argos one (I hope) will provide an indication to me.
I am in Athlone.

Thanks in advance guys.

watty · 10-02-2011 11:10am

Argos is no good for Aerials.

You need a outdoor aerial. Forget about attic aerial in Athlone.

johnny_cash · 23-03-2011 8:43pm

Hi can somebody please show me what aerial i will need to get saorview as watty and others are saying argos is crap i don't know what i need.I looked on satellite.ie and seen a aerial but doesn't come with all the brackets to put it up i don't know what to buy.I live in myshall co carlow if you need to know about the signal.Thanks it's just there's so many people talking about it can someboby please explain in simple english.

qhe0i9zvfgdou8 · 23-03-2011 9:25pm

johnny_cash wrote: »

Hi can somebody please show me what aerial i will need to get saorview as watty and others are saying argos is crap i don't know what i need.I looked on satellite.ie and seen a aerial but doesn't come with all the brackets to put it up i don't know what to buy.I live in myshall co carlow if you need to know about the signal.Thanks it's just there's so many people talking about it can someboby please explain in simple english.

I'm no expert but if your getting Saorview from Mt Leinster you'll need a group B aerial (yellow tip) horizontally polarized. Hope this helps

dowtchaboy · 24-03-2011 8:09am

johnny_cash wrote: »

Hi can somebody please show me what aerial i will need to get saorview as watty and others are saying argos is crap i don't know what i need.I looked on satellite.ie and seen a aerial but doesn't come with all the brackets to put it up i don't know what to buy.I live in myshall co carlow if you need to know about the signal.Thanks it's just there's so many people talking about it can someboby please explain in simple english.

If you live in Myshall the Mt Leinster signal will be so strong you can probably get it on the "wrong" group aerial, an indoor aerial, a coat hanger or no aerial at all! Do you get TV3 and TG4 well at the moment? That same aerial will likely be just fine for Saorview. You are only 6 or 7 km from one of the most powerful transmitters in the country - no problems!

db (ex-Borris exile......)

Chuck Stone · 29-03-2011 11:28pm

Hey guys I've been looking around these forums to see if there are any recommended USB DTT tuners for a PC and didn't see anything.

I was looking here >> http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_i_0_20?url=search-alias%3Dcomputers&field-keywords=usb+digital+tv+tuner&sprefix=usb+digital+tv+tuner

would these be suitable?

I figured aerials was close enough - if it isn't feel free to move this question mods.

jonnygee · 31-03-2011 6:02pm

Would anyone know what type of aerial, eg indoor, attic or external would be required to recieve digital from Kippure transmitter at Rathoath in Co Meath

FAQ: Analogue, DTT, Aerials

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