Surprised by Enda Kenny?

darkman2 wrote: »

Firstly - I didn't live far beyond my means. So your theory ends there. I and a good minority of the population were sensible. Why should I have any sympathy for the greedy part of our "average" population (not only bankers and speculators) that behaved so recklessly with their personal finances? Why? Can you answer that? I watched clowns in my own area - taxi drivers - driving brand new mercs every couple of years (2 on my street alone), holidays every few months - a fcuking window cleaner getting big extensions on his very modest house, the holidays, the cars everything else recklessly knowingly beyond their means on credit. Why should those of us who were sensible have to put up with this idea of having to bail these "average" people out? They fecked up along with the banks and politicians. They should take the consequences of their actions. They had a good time. I was restrained, I didn't. The people who were restrained through the boom are the ones who really should be protected in all this.

Secondly don't start about the bailout. It's simple. As a country we had no choice. It was live or die - take it or don't take it. Anyone who claims this country had any leverage at all over that is dangerously deluded IMO. The like of Joe Higgins and that can talk all the nonsense they want, they will never be in Government. The Government has to behave sensible and delicately because the stakes for us as a country cannot be higher.

Well, first of all I'm no Joe Higgins fan. I'm a Capitalist which is more than I can say for Kenny and Co. The mere fact that you claim we had no choice - it was do or die just confirms your grasp of the situation, i.e - a lack thereof. I'm not trying to attack you, but you have to realise that there were options. The simplest one to follow would be to acknowledge the principle foundation of the capitalistic system - bad companies die.

I don't know what you're talking about in your first paragraph, you seem to have gone on some rant about not being greedy etc. It's human nature, my friend. Human Action is called praxeology - we act because we WANT. And we want because we hope to be better in the future. I don't blame the taxi driver that took out a loan and couldn't pay it back. It was his risk and I feel no sympathy for him. Nor do I feel sympathy for the banks that never operated under Capitalistic principles when they knew Big Brother down on Kildare Street would happily bailout their corporate friends. Did I mention FG supported bailing out the wealthy corporatists?!?

Those banks should of fell and their assets bought up on the market for buttons. The problem is that we have a very dodgy banking system, not because there are a lack of regulations - but because a cartel exists. A cartel with a monopoly. There are a lot of things more sinister than you'd like to imagine at work here. It's not as clear cut as you'd like to suggest. Of course, we had choices. The choice being that private risk is NOT public debt. This is not a looney lefty/socialist view, this is also a capitalist view.

The manifesto this government, as well as the gombeens that preceded them are working from is your typical fascist playbook.

_Gawd_ wrote: »

The people are not to blame - every Tom, Dick and Harry went into AIB and came out with a loan. Why wouldn't they? .

Serious? I am flabbergasted at this statement.

You absolve responsibility of the people, yet claim everyone walked into a bank out of their own free will to get a loan, yet are not to blame for a property bubble. Serious identity issues there.

"I didnt kill the man Garda, the gun did"

On Enda, I agree he is doing better than allot of people are giving him credit for and I knew he would surprise people. The media don't hold people from rural Ireland with much light. If your a minister or a leader who is not from Dublin, you are going to get more stick. thats a given.

At least he has a strategic plan in place to get Ireland out of the mire they were in. All you have to do is go back 12-18 months and look at the state of the country then under FF and Cowen and co. The country was in a perpetual crisis and there was no knowing how bad it was going to get. There was times where you actually feared for the future viability of the state.

At least now we have a bit of stability. Bond yields have halved. Negotiations under way on the promissory notes that will hopefully ease the debt burden. Greek debt is now isolated to a certain extent so a more open and liberal deal on Ireland is still possible. There is talk of entering the bond market sometime next year which would be great news.

On the home front, Croke Park is still there but that is Labours baby and I believe that when/if the "reforms" promised by the unions fail to materialise then Enda and FG will take out the axe and start chopping. They are playing the long game here.

I would like more though on the political reforms front and I understand the constitutional convention is due to be held later in the year. I also understand that the eyes of the government are probably on other things like the EU treaty, promissory notes etc so they cant do everything you want in one year. Hopefully though they will get their asses in gear on this sooner rather than latter.


On a side note, it is natural to think that your own leaders and politicans are the worst in the world and they bring a certain shame onto the country. OK, Cowen was pretty bad alright in appearance and ability.

Here in Australia lots of people hate Julia Gillard but what they hated more was Kevin Rudd who was foreign affairs minister. He was seen as aloof, weak and needy. Compared to the strong and steely Chinese, Israelis, Russians. Everyone thinks their own leaders are the worst when in reality other countries don't really care.

Enda carries himself well enough, talks well enough, and plays a good game in drumming up positivity about Ireland. You would swear that some people would want him to talk Ireland down judging by some of the Joe Duffy brigade.

"The country is on its knees, Joe!!!!!, nd there Enda's talking Ireland up to American Businessmen, its a disgrace Joe!!!!!"

View wrote: »

Just because Enda K doesn't agree with your political opinions doesn't make him a facist.

Fascism is state power coupled with corporate power. Almost all western governments across the globe now participate in this little backstratch. The modern word is called corporatism. FG = support bailed out banks = fascists. Or has fascism now become mainstream, does this mean we must tolerate it??

jank wrote: »

Serious? I am flabbergasted at this statement.

You absolve responsibility of the people, yet claim everyone walked into a bank out of their own free will to get a loan, yet are not to blame for a property bubble. Serious identity issues there.

"I didnt kill the man Garda, the gun did"

I don't know what you're talking about. I don't blame the people - I blame the ECB printing money and the banks not operating under business principles. Let the people borrow as much as they want so long as the banks fall - it's their loss for being too stupid to compete in the modern world.

Godge wrote: »

I couldn't agree with you more:D.

If people were educated enough to understand that the crisis was brought about by a combination of ten years of stupid FF policies on spending and taxation, a poorly regulated banking system, an international downturn, a monumentally stupid decision of the FF government in September 2008 to guarantee the banks and most of all, the stupidity of the Irish electorate both in continually re-electing that FF government and also indulging themselves in an illogical frenzy to become propety owners whatever the price.

That education combined with a course to direct their anger away from the people sorting out the mess (the current government) and to working out the issues rather than casting blame.

The OP is right, Kenny has done well, we are further down the road to recovery than I thought possible when they were elected.

Fianna Fail were stupid, but no more stupid than other governments across the world. The international downturn is not some unexplained phenomena. Austrians have been predicting this for years. It was Ludwig von Mises that predicted the great depression in the 20's. It's not a mystery and it's infuriating the way we see these people on TV looking like nobody knew what happened...it's ludicrous, it just doesn't mathematically add up. You cannot inflate the money supply...period! When will they EVER LEARN????

Regulation does nothing..we don't need more regulation, we need companies to go bust, simple. When there is talk of regulation, who are the first one's to be called? The top dogs in that particular industry getting the bailouts. It was the banks regulating and it will be the banks regulating their own industry again. Is there anything more ridiculous. Forget about regulations...if someone acts the maggot, they go out of business no ifs buts or maybes about it. Then they'll learn...quick.

We're nowhere near recovery because you seem to be forgetting one very important fact. This is not the first recession. There were many before and there will be many to come. Unless the economic system is changed, we'll continue these booms and busts.

K-9 wrote: »

The big challenges are ahead, the first political one is how he handles the Household charge debacle and climbs down with as little egg on his face as possible.

There can and will be no climb down on this. It simply HAS to happen, otherwise the government will have to give up on introducing new taxes to cut the deficit. The execution of it has not been great but people from the ULA have a lot to answer for IMO. They are fooling people, just as FF fooled them for years. Money grows on trees apparently.

Only in Ireland do people want no tax increases at all, yet want to maintain the level of services while also still running a 16 billion euro deficit.

Anyway, its written into the bailout package so it has to happen.